Does a better turntable actually sound better?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- Comparing audio quality between a new $99 Audio-Technica AT-LP60 turntable and a far superior vintage 1970s Technics SL-1900 turntable equipped with the popular and well-reviewed AT95E phono cartridge.
Pre-emptive FAQ:
Q: How am I supposed to compare audio quality through a UA-cam video with compressed audio?
A: You don't have to. You can download the audio samples in uncompressed WAV format here: docs.google.com/folder/d/0B_o...
Q: I get an error when trying to open that link.
A: Try opening it in private/Incognito mode in your browser. If that still doesn't work, here are the direct download links:
sitd-technics.wav
drive.google.com/file/d/0B_oq...
sitd-atlp60.wav
drive.google.com/file/d/0B_oq...
difference-technics.wav
drive.google.com/file/d/0B_oq...
difference-atlp60.wav
drive.google.com/file/d/0B_oq...
Q: The music isn't good enough to reveal the true difference in audio quality between the turntables.
A: Unfortunately, until someone releases royalty-free music on vinyl, I'm limited by what music I can use that won't result in UA-cam putting copyright restrictions on this video. But here's the $99 AT-LP60 playing a Linda Ronstadt song: • Linda Ronstadt - It's ... You can compare that to the same song being played on a VPI Scout (a $2200 turntable) with an Ortofon 2M Black (a $700 phono cartridge): • Video
Q: The AT95E is still only a "budget" phono cartridge. You need to use a much better cartridge to make this a valid comparison.
A: Many reviewers insist that the AT-LP120 and other mid-range turntables equipped with the AT95E cartridge offer "significantly better sound quality" and "will get a finer, more detailed sound out of your records" than the AT-LP60's AT3600L cartridge. Judge for yourself if you think that's true.
Q: Regardless of the audio quality, everyone tells me the AT-LP60 is a bad turntable.
A: See my video "Cheap turntables - Are they really THAT bad?": • Cheap turntables - Are...
Q: What are the song titles?
A: Shot in the Dark - "Make Up My Mind"; Vic Damone - "It Makes No Difference"; Mr. Fantastic (John LaDuca) - "Bittersweet Samba" - Наука та технологія
7:52 you've got the answer
And the answer, for most people that is, is there is barely a difference. Like one time the LP60 popped. Thats it, that’s all I could tell.
Haha lol
@@isaacdantzler I could tell the atlp60 have more wow and flutter
Great little side joke by vwestlife
thanks for that!! looking for reasons to upgrade from my old lp60
Regardless of people's opinions I was more impressed with the flawless editing than anything else. Great job!
I never really gave the editing enough credit, it's perfect, almost perfectly on point.
I concur Doctor.
Do you concur? 😂
That's a fantastic comparison. The Technics has a slightly wider sound stage and a bit better defined lower mid and bass making it sound a bit smoother, particularly with the vocals. However, this could well be explained by the fact the phono pre-amps are different. It would be fascinating to hear the LP60 with your Sansui. Overall I'm very impressed with the AT.
just proves you don't need to break the bank to have a satisfactory sound imo
Yup. I just picked up the LP60X and I don't have anything negative to say
@@krxwnvxk3432 how fast does the tone arm drop ?
@@Alex-hu4jh slow
Its so funny you used "it makes no difference" for this particular comparision 😂
Good catch! Funny for sure; wonder if that was a conscious choice!
My congratulations on your editing. It is totally seamless. One might think that one is listening to the same table. Enjoy it with my good wishes.
Perfect record selection! Let Reddit screech all it wants, you got my vote dude. Thanks for once again keeping it real!
Minimal difference between the two, I'd be happy with either turntable.
On headphones they sound similar but through speakers you can tell how thin the 60 sounds.
IKR
@@quattro4468 Wouldn't that make it an issue of the speakers then?
@@Sarathewise158 or the amplifier
@@Sarathewise158 Lmao no, the speakers would be revealing the lack of fidelity the lp60 has, meanwhile the good turntable would sound amazing through the same pair
VWestlife - I really appreciate your videos. As someone who grew up with turntables, got away from them for quite awhile but am now interested in getting back into them, it's great to be able to see and hear the comparisons that you provide. It's helping quite a bit in making up my mind. Thanks for all the work you put into these.
There is a clear difference in sound between the 2 turntables, I cant quite decide which I like the most. They are both great and if I hadn't heard them side by side I would be perfectly happier with either of them.
Joshuua Fawcett Mr Golden Ears,Yeah right!!
Thank you for doing this! I am amazed at how little difference there is in sound quality. I have heard greater differences between cartridges than between these two turntables. Of course you have a much wider selection of cartridges with the Technics as well as more upgradeable parts, which could make it worth the upgrade.
Love when you pulled out the article from the 80s. I was like yes he does his research!
Garrett Gonzales
But can he cut hair bra
That doesn’t mean he’s a sudden expert, most of those magazines are marketing scams to buy the common consumer the trending item.
@@DwightLivesMatter =/- 0.4dB from 20-20k is pretty good for an RIAA equalizer. Pretty much the gold standard. A McIntosh I found is only 0.1 dB better - 0.3 vs 0.4. Hardly a noticeable difference. Anything below 0.5 dB is not detectable.
That's crazy! Have you ever done DMT?
Most random comment right here haha
Its entirely possible
Oh hello joe rogan
Jaime pull up that moose video
@@lunchboxcravings3661 Oh, Hi Mark.
Absolutely amazing job switching between the two recordings without any cuts at all!
mazda9624 no problem to do when its the exact same audio file
Thanks; you really did a great job and covered all the bases (like the option to hear the comparison in WAV). Thanks for doing the work!
Great video! Thanks for taking the time to do that much appreciated!
Have run the Audio Technica LP60 & LP60x side by side for over a year now with just under 1000 hours play & I like the sound of the LP60x slightly better probably due to it's external regulated power supply but they have both been great sounding turntables.
Audiophiles need some way to justify buying a $10 000 power cord and taping bags of rocks to their sound cables.
Okay, fine, but how do you explain the very high prices, and lack of places to purchase these very expensive, esoteric hi fi components? If a dealer sold Dual turntables I could have but a Dual turntable a long time ago in the late 1980s, or '90s. Therefore, that is a couple of the reasons why these super hi fi, high end audio equipment, and sometimes the people who promote it are harshly criticized; and so there is a discrepancy with these high price turntables! Unfortunately, today more than ever a buyer gets what they pay for, so the hi fi, music fan must pay into the high 3 figures, or well over $1,000 for a very good, functional deck, such as a turntable @@jamescarter3196
the sl-1900 costs literally 200 bucks on the vintage market bro, 50 bucks more than the lp60. i swear this comment section is fricking insane for not realizing this LMAO
There is definitely a difference. It's a small one, though. And, given the huge price difference, it is not worth the additional investment unless you are a huge audiophile.
These are both EL cheapo tables.You want your cd to sound better?Try a Decware Zbox.You want your turntable to sound better?Buy a real turntable,not these junk tables.
@@karenjobagy5822 big chungus
@@karenjobagy5822 nothing is good enough for you nuts
@@chickenflaver6191 The time he has the best equipment he is already deaf!!!!!
Agreed. The second song, "It Makes No Difference" is rather suggestive here, but Technics SL-1900 does make a difference though its very difference is something like 1.2 to 1.3 times better than Audio Technica AT-LP60 and the price difference is like 6.5 times more expensive.
Excellent, that was a lot of work as usual. I had totally forgotten Vic Damone and what a great voice he had.
When listening with mixing headphones and not looking at the video, I can't hear a difference.
When I watch the video switch between the two and listen, I'd like to convince myself that the Audio-Technica is a tiny bit brighter.
But honestly: I think that's just my brain interpreting the bulkier Technics as having more base/bass.
In my opinion, vinyl is all about the process of collecting and listening, handling the record and understanding the physical medium as an artifact with a history and value - and so on. Alot of the experience is centered around tactility. So the experience that the Technics provide might be better, but that has nothing to with sound and technical specifications and all to do with psychology and 'magic.' Both are real things in our mind.
Same result for me listing on Sennheiser hd 650's and Neumann NHD20's with a RNHP 1-channel Precision. I then switched to my Monitors. Between my Genelec's, Eve Audio, Adams, and Mix Cubes Not much of a difference at all between recordings.
Well said Lauge.
To my mind, the vintage one sounded a bit more "open" but I could only tell that in the first song while listening to it on my DT770 headphones. Not much difference though. I think you're right, the buyer will choose between the crappy plastic "look" vs the dignified vintage look and how that contributes to their overall experience. I'm planning on getting a turntable to restore old recordings but I will begin the journey with the $25 audio technica. If I enjoy doing that and start charging for it, then I will look for higher quality solutions. But by the time you do a light amount of EQ and mastering, I seriously doubt it matters as a hobbyist.
For me i invest more on speakers and headphones than other audio equipment because it makes more difference in sound, especially if you compare a pair of plexgear headphone to a pair of sony or jbl.
I tested my BW DM602 speakers on my two amps, one from yamaha that is more expensive and has higher specs and one from pioneer that is cheaper with lower specs, but the speakers sound equally good.
The only reason why I wouldn't go for the audio technica one is because of the plastic arm that I'm not fond of.
I had the LP-60 for a few months while getting re-started in vinyl again. The LP-60 worked great from the start. Only flaw I had was the tactile feel of the push buttons. Felt more like I was pressing the "return change" button on a vending machine. Other than that, it was a great sounding table, but sold it off. I ended up buying two used fully automatic turntables locally (JVC L-F66, Technics SL-Q300) off of craigslist for the price of one LP-60. Cleaned them up to look like new. They both work great and have a better feel to them when operating the controls.
I only noticed a slight difference with a good pair of headphones/audio setup. With that being said their was a difference but not a big enough one to justify the price difference. I think the Lp-60 would be good for someone starting out on a budget that still gets good sound quality compared to some crappy all in one kit you see at target/walmart etc. A much more expensive equipment setup would be for the "audiophiles" and "enthusiast."
Michael Ping I'm listening with apple earbuds and heard a difference, L, law of diminishing returns, throw your headphones in a fire
I really enjoy watching and listening to videos like these! Looks like a lot of work to put it together. I have a good audio setup on my computer and I could hear slight differences consistent between the two turntables/cartridges; but I don't think that lessens the enjoyment factor out of either because we're not normally doing a back to back A-B comparison. These videos are still really fun and informative and I enjoy the music along the way. Thanks!
People who have huge hi-fi systems engage less with the music they listen to and more with their expensive equipment
No, good equipment let’s the barrier between the music and the listener disappear and therefore can be a huge difference.
True to some extent but only if the equipment isn't configured correctly. Turntable level, overhang and balance, arm height, platter, speaker toe in, rake angle, use RSP method for speaker placement. Isolation pads, plug amp directly into mains and not a filter etc. Do all that and you will never notice your hard ware again. All you will note is the music. Oh, and make sure skate is perfect, you can adjust skate minimally to tweak sound on different thickness vinyl.
I disagree. I also build my equipment.
Ngl but the audio from both turntables kinda sounded the same to me lol.
@@nation8169aha, GOOD equipment, not a manager's yearly salary's worth of equipment
that's the difference
Thanks for your great video's , In the mid 70's I was 17 and in the Army in Germany. many of us Brought and put together stereo systems . ( now vintage systems ) . now 58 yrs old and trying to remember each component . anyway been thinking about putting another together for awhile. your vid's are giving me insight on the modern take on my search.
"Why listen to records when you can just listen on spotify?"
Sounds the same to me as something saying
"Why buy books when you can download the pdf?"
Cause tons of people entire the "entire package" of having a physical copy. Say what you want but to a ton a people reading a pdf on their iPad is much less enjoyable that sitting down with a book. The same is true with music. Something about getting home from work and physically dropping the needle onto a record is much more satisfying than just saying "okay Google, play Good Kid M.A.A.D. City".
The real question is why does anyone give a shit about what is "best". It's all personal preference with pros and cons. Plus we all have hobbies something thinks are stupid. Some people are gym rats some play DnD some work on their cars, some play videogames, some collect records, some take karate.
If someone ain't hurting anyone then hating on their hobby is asinine.
Audioquality
yeah, you’re a good noodle in my book
Actually that is a stupid comment, Yes Spottily and any other digital has very high quality but turntables have a richness that digital sounds does not have. That tells me that you know absolutely nothing about Audio
I have a VPI direct and an EAT C major, the first one with a clear audio concerto V2 and the EAT JO no 5 cartridge , driven McIntosh MX160 and 2 X MC 1.25Kw , Speakers the fantastic Sonus Faber Aida and I can guaranty you that my system sounds better then any digital system you may have any time. Next time compare apples with apples, that would make you smarter.
@@oneemotiva4975 did you read what you replied to?
@Display2012 I'm not sure you know what dynamic range means
You do an excellent job of presenting the facts, kudos. They both sound good, I can't tell much difference, if any.
Yeah I can hear the difference, the technics definitely had more range and clarity. But not hundreds of dollars more of range and clarity, I guess it's the law of diminishing returns like in most products. The best decision really is just to buy within your budget and enjoy the music.
Too bad I live in Australia and even the cheap turn table cost a few hundred dollars and is out of my budget. Thank god we live in the age of smartphones and computers.
Well, the thing about the Technics is that, so long as it's not an SL-1200 series, it can be had in the used market for not that much more money over a new AT-LP60 (at least here in North America).
You may have to invest in some time and labor to get the SL-1900 running tip top, especially if the original lubrication has gone gummy and if the potentiometers and switches need cleaning. And you may still have to spend extra to get a decent cartridge for it.
But, once you do get it in good shape, that 40 year old Technics (no kidding: the SL-1900 is a budget model from the late 1970s) will probably outlast that new AudioTechnica. They were designed and built _that_ well.
Most good Japanese direct drive turntables from the 1970s and 1980s are great buys because they were made very well and have great performance. You just have to be careful to dodge any examples that were abused by their previous owners.
All that said, the AT-LP60 is still a good buy since it's still a good sounding and good playing turntable and it's easy to get it ready to use right out of the box. The fact that it doesn't require an external phono preamp is a plus if your equipment doesn't have a phono input.
As a hi-fi noob I fully concur, especially the bit about Australian pricing! A few brands e.g. Yamaha, Q Acoustics seem to be reasonably priced, but we get reamed on most. I just saw a Naim streamer that I'd had my eye on rise by 30% overnight...
Oh, and staff in hi-fi stores tend to be massive snobs. If I wasn't persistent they might've turned me off the hobby.
I live in Australia too. I've been using an old Technics SL-23 for about 12 years. Basically the belt drive version. Still has a stroboscope light looking the same with the marks on the platter and same arm. I paid nothing for the SL-23. It had no belt or headshell (easily and very cheaply attainable on eBay) speed selector switch needed the contacts cleaned. Circuit board needed 5 small capacitors(attained at Jaycar) replaced to stabilise the speed. Eventually years later up untill about 2 years ago after an Ortofon OMB-10 cartridge for about 10 years roughly, before that Shure M91ED, settled on the same cartridge Audio Technica AT-95E and now couldn't be happier with the sound quality.
It's always funny when you hipsters use these meaningless subjective words like 'range' and 'clarity'. Range of what, exactly? lol
Fart sniffers.
the sl-1900 costs literally 200 bucks on the vintage market bro, 50 bucks more than the lp60
I love your videos. Because of your other video I purchased the at-lp60 and love it. I can tell you love great sound, but your comparisons are great and are much more levelheaded than some of the other channels. Thank you!!!
I prefer 70's/80's turntables because:
1. You can get them cheaper for the same or better quality. I got a $700 Marantz 6350Q for $25 and it only needed a small amount of tuning up, but now plays rock solid. (and personal preference, I love the semi-automatic feature and the fact that I can turn it off when I don't want to use it! Which is quite frequently, actually)
2. Build quality is often better. While it doesn't /need/ to be better, I prefer a heavier, solid table to a light plasticy one.
3. I know it's going to last. It has lasted over 4 years without a significant tune up. Once I give it a once over, I know it will last for many years to come without worry. (note my last point. This isn't always the case and does require research to know if your lucky find is going to be reliable or not. But you'll be able to see if it will last for 20 more years, unlike a relatively new product)
4. That LP60 is new. Right now it sounds fine, but wait 5 years and it's no longer going to be in spec. I work at a thrift store in the electronics dept and we get in a lot of 90's and early-mid 2000's turntables that simply don't work like they used to. Wow and flutter increases, their speed varies (but that's easily fixed). Auto return mechanisms/buttons/switches/hinges/feet seem to fail more than a table from the 80's or 70's, but I'm not claiming anything spectacular, that's just what I've noticed.
5. Some of the music I listen to regularly shows wow and flutter much more than up-beat music. Stuff like Jean Michelle Jarre, Rick Wakeman, Pink Floyd, Daft Punk all seem to have long stretches of drones that don't sound good with ANY wow going on (personal opinion. You may find it different). Maybe you can find something similar that isn't copyrighted. I do own some royalty free music on vinyl, but it's not any better for testing stuff like wow and flutter than what you've played in this video.
6. Lastly, a new player is NEW. My PL510 has developed issues since I got it 5 years ago (for $10, lucky me). They are fixable, but it's annoying when they do come back. Then again, when that LP60 fails, will it be worth it to repair it? Will the repair be simple? Will it even BE fixable?
Bonus for those who care about the value of their junk instead of the noises it makes. A vintage table will have more resale value and will turn more heads than the LP60 or a Crosley will.
Aer Fixus - I've got a Sony from the late 90s and completely agree. The problem that I have is sourcing parts for it as it was neither high-end or very popular. Want some hinges? Good luck. How about a tone arm? Hahahaha.
It sounds alright for the time being, but I'd equate it to the Audio Technica (only mine has anti-skate and more weight adjustment on the tone arm) in build quality. Thinking it might be a good gift for a friend when I find the Technics or Dual that suits my needs.
My Pioneer PL-990 turntable (based on the same chassis as the AT-LP60) was made in 2008 (I bought it in early 2009) and it still works perfectly. If you notice any wow & flutter or speed problems with these turntables, it can be easily fixed by getting a new belt for $5 on eBay -- which is actually significantly thicker and wider than the original belt, thus giving it better torque and speed stability.
Eh. .I am a fan of direct-drive.
I am a fan of aftermarket belts. I did have one instance where it did not fix the speed fluctuations, but that is certainly the exception and not the rule.
I've simply grown to like direct drive, though, with my favorite turntable being quartz locked with a strobe to prove that it's rock-solid.
I do tend to recommend new tables like the LP60 for casual listening or LP120 for those who I know will want to get into buying cartridges and who enjoy the experience of tuning the equipment to *know* they have it set up right instead of simply trusting the manufacturer.
And I always suggest buying used before new as long as the person knows that they may have to do basic maintenance (belts, stylus/needle, potential calibrations, quirky return mechanisms, etc).
My 1974 Victor JL-B41 Turntable liked this comment.
Seriously my Victor table looked great being 44 year old and everything sounded great as well and I knew it can sound a lot better with better cartridge since mine came with some entry level Audio Technica cart.
Since I already have direct table now I want to try some belt table.
That's crazy. I think the lp60 is actually very goooood
Wow, I did not expect my 64 year old ears to hear a difference because of UA-cam's audio encoding being identical for each. At first I did not and that remained regardless of a blind test or not but that was only for the first recording where the music is a bit harsh. The second song had beautiful vocals and when I closed my eyes and listened while opening my eyes every time I thought I could detect a change towards a warmer fuller sound I was spot on. So yes, good vintage was, here, more pleasing than new inexpensive. Thanks for the test. Now I will turn on the video to see what you thought. It must have been more pronounced hearing it live.
I don't collect records, although i grew up with them in the 1970s and 80s, but I think one of the wonderful things about LPs was the large cover art. Even though cassettes and CDs had booklets and pull out inlays, they were quite small. Some artists really managed to stuff a lot of inlay in cassettes, but it was never the same. I used to like looking at and playing my Dad's 50s and 60s records.
I subscribed to your channel over this video alone! What you do is a great service to everyone!
As someone wanting to get back into records a bit, I really appreciated this video. I grew up solidly in the cassette era, and then CDs when I was in college, and we never had a good record player when I was a kid. I have had a couple turntables over the years, but never really liked listening to them and ended up selling them. I still kept the records, as that was more of a collecting thing anyway. I was afraid I'd have to spend a lot to get something I'd enjoy listening to. I had watched a bunch of videos on various models at different price points, but nothing with this kind of A-B blind test setup. Listening to it with headphones while working, and not looking at the screen, I honestly couldn't tell when you were switching the audio, and found both equally pleasing to listen to. Now I am good with starting with the AT-LP60XBT, and if I decide I want to upgrade down the road, I will give that to my daughter and find something nicer.
Wow, they are pretty close aren’t they? Impressed with that little Audio Technica and your recording skills! I just downloaded the WAV files and compared using good headphones and a quality DAC/Amp. Technics was better; smoother vocals, better bass... but there wasn’t much in it. Even closer with the same stylus and phono pre-amp I would guess.
Be careful, you are going to trigger the reddit community of "audiophile" fanboys.
VinylEngine too -- I triggered them enough to get banned.
Enough to get banned? Unbelievable how close minded they are.
L-A C vwestlife speakers factual information, both in spec and practical. it annoyed me when the audiophile people make things up line this platter mat has transformed the sound completely and other crazy things.
There are still some subreddits where the majority of users prefer facts to fantasy.
/r/headphones is usually pretty good.
Not all audiophiles are lunatics. The word and their image is blighted by a minority of buffoons who think swapping out a mains cable changes the sound of an amp, and other such ridiculous ideas. But actually, swapping out your turntable mat is not a crazy idea and can make a difference to the sound (good and bad) for any number of reasons that are just basic science.
Loved that you used the Shot In The Dark for the first clip - been meaning to get that LP for a while, they were great on Al Stewart's 24 Carrots
Great videos on comparing turntables and cartridges VW, thank you. I've listened to both the YT video and WAV files on a hi-fi stereo system and on a pair of quality closed back cans - both times with my eyes closed - and the differences are nominal at best. However you can detect a small difference with your eyes open 😉... To my ears, the less expensive AT3600L cartridge sounds nearly identical to the AT95E. If you haven't seen it, Audiorpheus' YT page that compares the AT95E to the Rega Carbon (AT3600L equiv). His video uses the same phono pre-amp, so any difference you may hear should only be coming from the cartridges. To me the sound quality differences were very small to nil. Once again, thanks for your excellent comparison videos.
The Technics / Sansui is the better sounding of the two. That said, I am impressed at the quality of the Audio-Technica AT-LP60. I would say, without a doubt, turntable performance for the money spent has improved over the decades!
I've got a lovely vintage hifi set from the 70's. I've built it for two reasons: I love restoring old electronics (and it makes you able to get this kind of stuff for a budget) and vintage hifi is aesthetically beautiful, breathtaking.
Audiophiles always tell you to improve your setup so you can "enhance" the sound quality. "Just spend money dude". When you spend a crazy amount of cash you have to convince yourself you didn't do it for nothing, I guess...
it was pleasure to watch and listen, thank you
Just listening to the audio and not looking at the video (so as to remove bias towards the better turntable) makes it clear that there's really no difference at all
Buff Duck Yeah they both are great
Try the direct download. It's a big difference there. One thing that turntables struggle with is reproducing the sss sound without sibilance. This is the most notable difference.
those turntables are nearlyidentical
Their is a very noticeable difference. The first record you can hear it big time. The old one was more full in sonics and more open. The new one was still really good but just not as good. The second record though was really close.
i was always told the main difference between a cheapie and an expensive turntable is really mostly how well it treats your records ie tracking force and anti skating and some other nice features when youve got hundreds of records you want to last a lifetime thats pretty much justification to buy one for that alone in my book my ghetto af crossley copy sounds pretty good through good pre amp and speaker system (dont worry its going to be replaced by lp 120 soon lol )
I just found the the AT-LP60 at Fred Meyer for $39.99!!!!! Boy am I a happy camper. Thank you so much for doing your reviews!
Wow, what a deal I paid $99 for mine.
Nice! And I thought getting mine at $80 was a bargain lol
I got mine for $20 since Walmart couldn't sell it in the store near me. One of my best deals.
The Technics sounds slightly more rich and detailed to my ears. The AT95E is a dynamite cartridge for the price- I have one on my Pioneer PL516 and AT120 LP-USB. Great video, as always!
I have Tinnitus. I always hear a high pitch tone. For me, a working, thrift store turntable is just right for me. Awsome video.😊
Nice comparison video, thanks for doing this!
To me the AT turntable sounds thinner than the Technics; the latter seems to me to have more depth and resonance, and the sound seems a bit more deadened on the AT. This may be a factor of the cartridge rather though. I actually have a new AT turntable myself, the ATLP120 (with the green AT95E of your Technics) and have zero problems with it. The LP-60 is fine though.
Bruh just say you don't get laid and leave it at that
@@limefarmer There's a bunch of comments like this on this video. Why that specific comment? Also having sex does not make you more of a person. How come women don't get told to have sex?
If there is a difference it's not a $200 one; that's for true.
If we compare list price to list price, when adjusted for inflation it's more like a $500+ difference. The Technics sold for $160 in 1977.
Really great job! Thank you!
on my Fluance Signatures and only hearing this vid, the Technics sounded a tiny bit brighter and the effects a tiny bit clearer
great vid!
The audio from the Audio Technica seems just slightly brighter on the first song. I'd probably still go with the Technics myself because the automatic mechanisms on these newer turntables get in the way more than they help a lot of the time. That was the case for the Sony one I used to have.
The only difference I hear is the reproduction of the letter S. The Technics does a much better job at reproducing the S's.
Eaqle LOL
which means it deals better in high end. Could be the cartridge, could be the amp.
Oh! Yea i have a at lp120 and klipsch r15pms and the S pisses me off once i a while. My cartridge is aligned, but this is a common ptoblem that the letter s sounds like zzsss or shhz in words when played from a turntable and speakers?
Same problrm with s is actually for my hitachi ht 354 also.
That Vinyl Dude @ Vinyl Revival Thanks man. Will look into the anti skating. Have used at lp 120 protractor to align and for my hitachi ht 354 i used the stevenson protractor. Might be the anti skating or poor pressings of records then.
EaqIe I sit in front of EQs all day- yes, speech consistently hits high end. It starts from the top of your bass at the "body" all the way up to 15k for your "air".
"S"'s gain their airy sound from 7k-15k. So when you can't hear an s, p or t clearly, it's almost certainly the high end...
I have to be completely honest, I noticed a difference in sound! The vintage turntable sounded deep and rich in sound, heavy and even. The AT-lp60 sounded echo-y almost like listening to it through a tin can ..the pitch seemed distant and off.. I listened watching, and not watching the video, and came to the same conclusion. In saying that it wasn't too much different that it would put me off buying it, or make someone feel they made an uneducated purchase.. and I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up to either. Turntable snobbery aside,l they both play your records! Great review thank you!
good review, i like the tech details. long time subscriber, point
Make up my mind by Shot in the Dark is a great song. Thank you for introducing it to me
the Technics does sound a little better but not by much I think it has better bass and a wider stereo.
I agree. the switch to technics was easier to hear because of the fuller and wider sound.
Yeah, the sound stage sounds a little bit wider, and it also sounds a little bit warmer. But the difference is far from big enough to justify the price difference.
Plot twist: he played the Technics and showed the Audio Technica + vice versa
@@InfoDav the technics was cheaper
@@james-xf1ox No it isn't
Nice review. I’m using old Technics turntables I bought in the 70s. New carts and a Schiit phono stage though.
Until recently I ran a Nikko Delta DL-1 turntable with an Audio Technica AT92E cartridge. When I switched to a Denon DP-47F with a Signet MR 5.0me cartridge, the improvement was quite noticeable. In my opinion, it's the cartridge and stylus that make the largest difference, at least as long as the foundation (turntable itself) is of reasonable quality.
If there's a difference, the gear I'm listening on couldn't reproduce it (Sherwood RA-1140 receiver and Garrard GSS817 speakers).
I thought the Technics/Sansui combo sounded slightly flatter for an extremely brief period of time while Shot In The Dark's song was playing.
Listening later, on a different system and with headphones (Sennheiser HD-280 Pro)...damned if I can hear *any* difference between the two tables and preamplifiers.
I could definitely hear the switch on the Shot in the Dark album. I use a Focusrite 2i2>HK AVR255>Proson InPhase 6C speakers (99$ each)
However. It was NOT as easy on the second song.
if there's any real difference, it's probably only audible in person on an actual speaker system.
Tech Core i heard it on my laptop speakers. Then again, I'm 23 with great hearing. Even so, SMALL difference. AT sounded a bit clearer and crisper in the drums on the first song and the Technics a little warmer and rounder
I think I know the part you were talking about, it sounded warmer to me. But I could even hear it on my $25 Bluetooth earbuds... It was a very slight difference though
I own an AT-LP60. It's not the best thing on the market, but hey. Plays my records, has yet to cause any damage to them. Running it through a little switcher and my studio monitors. I'm more than contented with good enough.
does it truly sound better than Cd's in your opinion or is there not enough difference?
Hi, What protractor would you recommend for adjusting the needle position? The other issue I have is related to setting the counterweight. Do you by chance know what the recommended weight is for an Empire 2600 E/III cartridge? I cannot find anything online for my technics 1910 turntable setup. Thanks for any help you can provide
I closed my eyes for awhile during both songs trying to see if I could pinpoint the moment when it switched (other than the couple times it was obvious because of slightly imprecise cutting) and I could hear somewhat often when the first record switched to the Technics but on the second one I only guessed right once. It sounded "fuller" on the technics on the first song but the second i didnt really hear a difference
Deeper lows in the Technics. Fuller sound. Part time DJ here. LP lover too.
I heard the exact same. Just an hobbyist audiophile here.
jbones360
To be sure we'd have to download the audio files he mentioned, but yea, on the first song I concur that the older turntable sounded... Fuller? On the second song not so much. I'd have to download the audio files. I've got some quite decent Sony MDR-1R headphones with really sweet specs.
No. Both sound the same. Sorry.
That's true. More low end on Technics.
Yea i prefer the sound of the technics but the AT was not bad at all. I'd argue unless your intently focusing in on it you would never care casually listening at home. It's that negligible
I find it difficult to believe that there are still people out there dumb enough to make a judgement based on what they're hearing via UA-cam and computer speakers.
Download the audio samples! (If you can, I'm getting Error 404.)
Expensive souncards
I know its compressed thru UA-cam but it still makes a difference if you listen carefully. When a worse quality audio and a better quality audio both gets compressed, the worse quality audio will still sound worse, although the difference you hear will become smaller, or unless the quality of the compressed audio is so bad that its even worse than the worse audio so the degradation made both sounded much worse that you can't even distinguish the two. In this case its not, so everyone should be able to hear some difference but you need to use higher quality head phones.
I just listened to the wav files. On my smartphone speakers the difference was already noticable. The ATLP60 sounds flat compared to the Technics.
Playing it through my Teufel stereo system Made the difference even clearer. LP60 is more flat and has sort of a slight distortion where as the Technics has a very clean and rich sound
Really great that you also showed how the video was edited, which I have not seen in all ther comparison videos I have watched. I would like to do the same for the many different audio equipments I have for everyone to objectively judge, as I really hate snake oil stuffs and myths in the market. Thank you.
Great vid. I bought the lp gear upgrade kit (belt and eliptical stylus) plus a cork and rubber mat, which I put on top of the felt one and I also made a counter weight adjustment from a coin and rolled up fishing lead. I can adjust it from around 1.9 gramms to about 4.5 gramms, I have it around 2.5 gramms, sounds great and doesn't skate.
I think they sound equally as great. I did notice the Technics has more low end, but it's not a major factor in quality to me.
I have a SL-2000 it's same table except it is fully manual. The thing is I got it, shipped, for $75 total on ebay with that same original cartridge. Look for those deals.
Hi found this video very informative, The SL1900 was my first turntable bought new in 1977 it developed a fault around 1985 and placed in storage and I then bought a Thorens TD160 super which has been upgraded several times, better tonearms and cartridges and phono amps also inherited my dads Linn LP 12, I found your video about the repair of the SL1900 and took my technics apart with the help of your video , now its working like new Thank you.Even though my other turntables sound fantastic to me, I constantly find myself using the technics SL1900 more and more probably because of the full auto function I did replace the cartridge with an Audio Technica at120eb a great match for this turntable, What I am pleased about with the Audio Techica AT LP60 is that somebody new to vinyl and with a small budget can buy a good sounding turntable with good looks and full automatic function , and a warranty with factory back u., The Technics was never a budget turntable I remember it cost me 6 weeks wages in 1977 but it was at the lower end of Technics superb turntable range. as regards comparing how they sound , most of it is down to the cartridge and how that cartridge matches the tone arm. I do hear a difference but not as much as I would have expected , well done Audio Technica.
Listening through Beyerdynamic DT 990s and dac/amp I thought I could hear the switch over pretty easily. When I tested myself with my eyes closed I didn't do so well. For what it's worth, I just bought The AT-LP60 for my daughter for Christmas as her first turntable and was fairly impressed. Managed to get it on sale for $79 and at that price it's a steal.
can you do a vid on the ion ttusb if you can find one?
StereoDustParticles already did a good review of it: ua-cam.com/video/VNHPaBwAKbo/v-deo.html
The Technics has slightly better bass and less wow and flutter but you have to be listening closely. Kinda shocking how little difference there is.
You will really hear the difference when you demonstrate them both trough a good setup
Sir, I have a question. I'm just wondering if an entry level or a cheap turntable will sounds good or better by just replacing it with those better or high end stylus/cartrige that will fit (or do modification to fit the tonearm)? Combining it of course with an equalizer/amplifier with better speakers. Thank you.
Both of them sound great!
One of the best videos , tbst sets the true full facts about these great record players...real good job. I have the Audio Techinca, but not interested in the usb side .
I've got the same TT and I've got no use for the USB either.
I have just recently discovered after seeing so many reviews of the LP120USB, that the USB port is actuality robbing us of better sound quite a lot. The built-in preamp in the TT has a slight flaw, due to a tiny little piece of welded metal in the board which directly connects it to that USB port.
If the preamp is uninstalled and the wires to it cut, the difference in sound is very noticable and very much improved.
Damned USB ports have no business on a turntable lol.
@@MJEvermore853 ...interesting information MJ... thanks.
To be honest you have to ask yourself if the price increase is really worth it. I have an lp60 and it doesn't sound too bad to me.
@@harshnemesis I'm pretty sure everybody understands digital sounds better. But digital ain't cool so suck it
It's been five years so this is way too late but like many people I was listening over Bluetooth headphones and couldn't tell either way which was different and how. I would have liked to see a comparison of the wave files, difference in compared track play times (to compare speed) and honestly, just your own opinions on the tracks since you were there to actually listen to them. I appreciate you making the waves available and being so precise but I would trust your personal opinions as well and honestly value it more. Thanks for all the work! Great video and I will download the waves if they are still up.
Love the review brother. I am buying the 60 for my 2nd record player. Excited for the value. I can definitely tell a difference in the sound. Your technics has better mids to low end sounds as the 60 is slightly “tin”ier. However not worth the price difference. I have a few pair of studio quality sennheiser head phones that I’ve delved into the audiophile world with but I’m excited for the 60. Portability will be great.
I can't tell the difference. They both sounds good.
I figured this out a long time ago. Electronics have come so far, that a new entry level turntable, for example, compares very favorably to a vintage high end job. My receiver/amp has specs that are identical to the amp that you referred to as 'high end" vintage. Mine is new and cost me about $200.00. I have an AT60X turntable and I'm completely satisfied with it.
as a decent vinyl guy I would (before watching the video) that yes it does..but it also comes down to the record, speakers, amp and of course..cartridge. Now any player will play a piece of music..but it depends on what you want to do with it. Me I listen on monitor speakers specifically for the player..and I sit and listen while editing photos or video - sometimes on my headphones. Its all about the experience ;) Great Video Im sure as always sir ;)
Cape Cod, MA
fyi - Audio Technica 120 is my table of choice.
Your video saved me some bucks, thanks! now i'll enjoy my vinyls until i have enough for a hi end turntable
Couldn't hear any difference when I was watching the youtube video but once I downloaded the tracks and put my headphones on I preferred the more expensive Technics. oh well, I'd better start saving.
To hear the difference you have to download the hi res files and listen in a controlled room that is acoustically treated for you to hear any difference if any at all (as well as using quality speakers/monitors), so please refrain from judgment if you are using cheap headphones or your computer speakers, and most importantly, audiophiles and professionals alike have trained their ears their whole life, so yes if any difference exists they will be first to hear it.
Was looking at the specs of the phono pre-amp on my stereo. What's the SNR on yours? Mine shows 79dB (REC OUT) at '78 IHF. Not sure what IHF is. And has a PHONO RIAA deviation of +/- 0.4dB 20Hz-20kHz, which I assume is the same as equalization error?
Haha. Nice song selection! "Made up my mind" and really "there's no difference" between the two. Thanks for the video. Just what I needed. I was debating between the cheapo and expensive turntables. This video helps a lot.
I came for the Wheelwriter and its solid one-piece keys.
*its
Better?
cymbals seem to sound better defined, or perhaps just louder, in the at-60; if i'm correct about the speed difference, it could account for the difference i hear in the cymbals.
I adjusted both turntables to play at the correct speed.
I have the at-60. How do you adjust the speed?
Nice point shared thank you. It makes me wonder if buying a high end turntable is really worth the money.
I'm thinking about buying a Fluance RT 85 what do you think about these turntables or would you try a different kind: Thanks
Thank you, great video. I dont know why reddit gets so butthurt over your stuff. It really makes me dislike the sub.
Other than the stereo seperation (which is only noticeable with a good pair of headphones), there's really no difference at all between these two turntables!!!
I agree, but tell that to an "audiophile" they really are just fanboys.
LOL, though I have a Dual turntable for everyday use - which includes backing up my vinyl LPs and 45s to my computer!!! It ain't perfect, but it definitely gets the job done pretty damn well!
I have a number of turntables at home. The difference between a turntable of similar quality, much less ones of widely different quality, is easily apparent on even a middle range stereo. Remember we are dealing with 190 kbs compression on youtube plus whatever quality of playback the listener has at home.
Yeah, that's what I noticed too
But dude what about my speakers that cost $1 kaggilion dollars that I play my solid gold records while Bill Gates hand spins them. Jeez your such a noob.
I started reading the comments before the video got to the comparison and my first thought to everyone saying theres no difference in sound was - you are not paying for just sound quality, but longevity in a turntable. things like belt drive vs direct. I was scrolling through the comments when the video was playing and didn't know it was swapping between the two and was thinking "why does this song randomly sound fuller?" and scrolled up to realize what was happening. I record local bands as a hobby and spend a lot of time with the extremely small differences in sound. It does not make audiophiles snobs because you can't hear the difference. different products for different target markets. also I bet its the preamp that is making it sound better.
Enjoyable and revealing. Thanks.
The fridge is running. The bath fan is running. There is a 24-hr/day 6kHz tone in my head. Planes are taking off and landing a mile from here. No. There is no difference. Except the price and it cannot be justified.
1970’s wins even with that phono cartridge
Hi VWestlife, I just bought the Denon DP-29F "variant" of the LP-60 for my daughter (upgrade from her Crosley Cruiser :-). Got it off Craigslist for $30. Everything works great and the sound quality is good. The line level output from the built in phono preamp is pretty low, though, compared to my turntable's built in preamp. My turntable is a Fluance RT-81 w/AT-95E. This seems to be a fairly common complaint about the DP-29F. Any suggestions? I _do_ see that there are relatively inexpensive line level boosters available.
I found the expensive turntable significantly better in the bass reproduction than the other one when playing the first album. However, I did not notice a difference between the two players when the second record was played. Somewhat odd since even the second album had plenty of bass. Thank you for a very helpful video. Keep up the good work.
Same here! Very noticeable improvement on the 1st album for the Technics. I had to download the original files to really notice it - youtube pasteurizes the sound on videos to a point where quality is hard to distinguish.