Im an MMA fighter who also trains Akido, by a 66 yr old master. Im not one to opinionate but I wouldn't be half the fighter if it wasnt for Akido. No style is worthless. Knowledge is power. Any real / experienced mma fighter will tell you this. Remember the days you felt this way for when you walk the path of a fighter it will be a most humbling journey:) gr8 journeys ! (no disrespect meant via comment.)
@TheShadow4211 And his son, Ueshiba Mitsuteru, is called Waka-sensei, which means young teacher. Back when Kisshomaru-sensei was alive, he was called Doshu, and Moriteru-sensei was called Waka-sensei, and now that Moriteru sensei took over, he is called Doshu. I think the title is transferred upon the death of the previous Doshu, and is given to the successor, as decreed by the previous Doshu.
Part of the reason that people doubt Aikido is that a lot of people who practice it don't truly understand what it is. People learn techniques, which are great, they help us learn how our bodies move and how the geometry of Aikido works. But these are just stepping stones. True Aikido does not use techniques, for the idea of 'trying' to apply a technique means that you can be resisted. If you are truly harmonized with your attacker then you are in sync with them, and the technique forms itself.
@aikidoisthebombyeah There is footage of Aikido being applied against full resistance boxing and other attacks, and against larger people with grappling experience, but the likes of you decry it because "it doesn't look like the kata". Live Aikido doesn't look like the kata, nor is it supposed to, but there's no winning with the closed-minded and impatient. Also, I've probably spent more time dabbling in other arts than you did in Aikido. I am done wasting time on you and your misguided anger.
@aikidoisthebombyeah I'm capable of executing several key Aikido techniques with full resistance on a heavier opponent (30lbs on me) who is set on canceling them the moment I start to move. Now, because your dabbling in this art didn't satisfy your short attention span, because you're incapable or unwilling to go deeper and find the lessons in the partnered kata, and because you can't tell the ring from reality... it's not the art's fault. It's your fault. And don't froth at the mouth, it's ugly
@aikidoisthebombyeah You don't see broken wrists in Tomiki for the same reason you don't see broken skulls in Judo. It's a stupid question to start with. Now, if you want to fight against... um... trained fighters, which are a microscopic part of the population... you'd have to become one yourself. Regimen, athletics, concussions and all that. As for street fighters... it depends on the encounter. I recommend you research the topic of self-defense, it's a lot larger than MMA or Aikido.
@Leushenko In order to save the wrist, one has to actively leap over to catch up to the wrist rotation. It is pure skeletal mechanics. You learn fast what happens otherwise, because inevitably we all sustain some injury due to stupidheadedness during fluidity drills. In reality, nobody does leaps. There wouldn't be a fancy landing, just someone's head smashing into a bus stop, or a cracking noise, followed by a yelp, as their elbow is torn out.
@aikidoisthebombyeah As for the resistance... I wouldn't stay with a school where they don't practice resistance, either. I stayed because I pushed a 2nd degree black belt the way I would push someone in a schoolyard, and ended up upside down in the air, scared as shit, and then there was a bruise on my ass. This was during the first year of training. I also stayed because I saw some people's ability to near-break wrists almost instantaneously, and other interesting things.
@aikidoisthebombyeah Your claims are simply not true. Many schools of Aikido train in counter-technique, and Aikido wristlocks aren't really. They're throws with a final ending, and could be done without the wrist entirely. Their outcome is determined a lot earlier than the flashy wrist bending on which your eyes focus. As for shirt grabs... do you know what happens simultaneously with a shirt grab in real life? A punch to the face or worse. Aikido footwork allows for many degrees of damage.
@Kavafy Imagine your sword is in your belt, or you are drawing/ holding a sword. The reaching for the wrist/ body, which looks like they are just sticking their arms out, is the attacker attempting to control you. As you have a weapon, if they lose focus or control for a second they are dead. Thus, they "keep" coming at him. This can be applied to anyone trying to control/ grab something you have, but, really, trying to apply or think about it out of context is futile.
maybe u r wondering if this martial art is effective or not but you'll know if u use it against anyone tries to attack u .... it has very powerful technics .
What people also tend to forget it is choreographed which makes it look better than what it really is.... I wonder how he would deal with real attacks and not the silly hand waving wrist grabbing hugging stuff you see, and how he would deal with people actually resisting him!? I bet it would look totally different!!!!! But we'll never know cause they wont, saying its not in harmony with the spirit or some such guff..... This is prance and dance...... nothing else..... As for the martial?
Usually you fight with punches and kicks, there are several techniques that allow us to break your arm just with one boxing punch it's pretty efective and you wont have the time to react believe i thought it was bullshit but its not.
Im sorry you are right. One of my friends has two sons that are Navy Seals he told me last night that all of there combat training is Aikido. He could not tell me who the Sensei was because it is kept secret. Sorry!
Nobody said "perfect". Most of these asshats are saying it doesn't work. Those of us who put real time into the art know better. I remember asking Matsuoka Sensei if it worked in the real world (after about a year of practice). He allowed me to try a real attack I got the first one in (as we practice to NOT hurt each other.) The second shot was met with what most perceive as flowery dance -- that split my lip on the way to the mat. I was already 3rd Dan in a hard style. It's just different.
I wrote ILL-informed, and I stick by that. You didn't argue a word of what I wrote to counter your claim, you just added more ignorance to the fray. What you're missing is the very essence of AiKiDo, what it's all about, which is agreement with the MOVEMENT, the MOTION of the attack. Yes, Aikido requires timing (as does any other martial art). But that doesn't make it "nothing more." That's FACT, and, just FYI, I've got about 10 years on you. Open your mind, you might learn something.
Just briefly, I've seen you trolling and am not going to indulge you in it... but it's necessary to point out that what you cal "pre-arranged forms" are no different than any other martial art. Or did you not spend many hours practicing the same kicks, punches, etc. in hard styles? Same as you don't actually see a knife-edge strike crushing someone's throat, you don't actually see an aikidoka breaking his partner's wrist, etc. But he's not letting ANYTHING happen. Go, learn, know, in a dojo.
It certainly has helped me more than once. In particular, coming off of a motorcycle onto concrete, from 65 to zero instantly, it was ONLY learning to roll/fall in Aikido that allowed me to walk away from the incident with nothing more than a bit of soreness, even though the 1100cc bike bounced across 3 lanes of traffic in downtown L.A. But thanks SO much for sharing your particular brand of clueless bullshit. Have a nice day.
And also that if Aikidoka were to go full out, there'd be broken bodies, and that's not how we choose to live or train. O-Sensei said that we have the right and responsibility to defend ourselves but, as Aikido is a loving art, we have the responsibility to do our best to catch them before they break their heads open on the concrete as well. From a strictly practical standpoint, if we weren't going along WITH TECHNIQUES THAT WOULD WORK, we'd be broken up, run out of partners quickly. Capiche?
As an all-state level wrestler in school, I'd always choose Bottom, then grab their hand with my right hand and roll to the right. It works every time, because I can grab and drop/roll a lot faster than they can do anything else from that position. But understand, it's not using anything "against" them in Aikido. There is no Opponent, though there may be an Attacker, because we are all one. Accordingly, there is no "against," unless you aim to be against yourself.:) Good luck & skills!
Few, somebody who knows what they're doing... As far as I know, at my own meager level of training, the slap is there to reduce the impact of the roll by acting like a spring or shock absorber, reducing the momentum without damaging yourself by placing whatever energy that wasn't cancelled out by the slap's impact into the muscle/tendon complex instead. Those heal better than broken bones. Sometimes, like in jumping back breakfall, the slap is all you have to stop yourself from dying on the mats
You know absolutely nothing about Aikido, that is very clear. Aikido is all about harmony and peace (aikido = "the way of the harmonious sprit"). The style was specifically designed to be able to stop an attacker without being required to break them in the process. There is no machismo, and therefor no need to go on tv proving how tough you are. Aikido is incredibly effective because it uses an opponent's own force against them, it is no more or less effective than any other MA.
Well, it depends on who you look at really. There's certain individuals that I won't name who does what's called "Aikido" but can't actually throw anyone in a fight. Totally compliant uke's and unfocused nage's make for very poor training. I train under the Yoshinkan style of Aikido, and we still got that hardcore training from back in the Kobukan era, where it was known as the "hell dojo". Search up Takeno, Mori, Chino, and the other Yoshinkan instructors, and you might be pleasently surprised.
listen man, the onus is on you to prove that BIGFOOT exists... I don't need to prove that BIGFOOT DOES NOT EXIST. You are saying that BIGFOOT exists. I'm saying that he doesn't. You need to prove it by giving evidence. Otherwise, all your yappin and flappin don't mean anything... I don't know why you have such a strong aversion to incorporating LIVE FREE SPARRING into your regular aikido training... It's like you hate the idea or something. I mean, what's the big deal? Why so much hate?
So anybody outside of UFC automatically have no credibility? I think your own words have made everything quite clear: you lack both experience and understanding in anything martial arts related. It's fine to be a fan of UFC, many martial artists are. But it's an entirely different thing to claim it as the paragon of all martial arts and that all martial arts must be tested within the confines of it's rules in order to be legitimate. Please actually train something seriously before commenting.
well the best fighters in the world test themselves in the UFC... as far as I know, there hasn't been any Yoshinkan "fighters" in the UFC... if you are a fighter and you don't aspire to fight in the UFC, then what kind of fighting are you doing really? and also for your information, just because it originated in japan or in asia, doesn't mean it's good... plenty of worthless fighting styles come from japan, china, and the rest of asia for that matter...
Well, at this point it's quite obvious I don't need to respond anymore. No martial artist can take you seriously at this point. Don't need to train in it to know you say? Pre-arranged kata's with cooperating partner is worthless you say? You do realize that all of the kobudo of Japan as well as many other asian arts use this approach to training right? To say that there's no fighting Aikidoka's in the world means you know nothing of the Aikido world in reality. I train in Yoshinkan, so I know...
look man, combat and self-defense, it's not rocket science... hand to hand combat has been around for thousands of years, and many people way before ueshiba and the gracies have been developing and analyzing it... if getting good at REAL fighting only required a lot of repetition of techniques and it didn't actually require that you REALLY fight during training, then EVERY JOE BLOW would be a warrior fighter.
you are right, i haven't trained aikido seriously... i don't need to... anything that has me practicing PRE-ARRANGED FORMS with a cooperating partner is going to be worthless... and for you to say that there are plenty of fights with aikidokas all over the world is completely WRONG... the whole philosophy of AIKIDO prevents its practitioners from FIGHTING... Hell, it doesn't even let them RESIST in the dojo while training, you think that it will condone FIGHTING??? Who are you kidding here?
why do you have to fight??? for a person that claims to be an aikido practitioner, you sure seem to advocate a lot of violence. I don't understand... why can't you just do a friendly grappling match where it's just a test of submission skills... i mean technically, aikido practitioners are masters of joint locks, so why not? why does it have to be an all out fight? why does it have to be a fight at all? why can't you just SPAR DURING TRAINING??? Why does it have to be ALL or nothing?
Mori Michiharu has been recorded to trash both MMA fighters and judoka's with ease, eh? I'd like to see that. I'd bet 100 bucks that you cannot produce ANY RECORDED VIDEO of those encounters. WHY? Because it's all hearsay. You expect me to believe that an AIKIDO MASTER accepts a challenge against a Judoka or MMA Fighter and there is NO VIDEO TAPE? Do you know how hard it is to get an AIKIDO MASTER to accept a FIGHT? So Michiharu ACCEPTS TO FIGHT and there is no video tape? I don't believe it!
How well do you think a policeman is going to do in the UFC? Are you for real man? There is a huge difference between a guy that's trained to apprehend the AVERAGE CRIMINAL than a PROFESSIONAL FIGHTER. Hard styles of AIKIDO of course are much tougher!!! WHY? BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY INCORPORATE MORE LIVE TRAINING. They are tougher not because their style is tougher or they have some secret technique. it's because of their TRAINING METHODS!!! Which precisely proves my point! My God!!
I think you are still missing the point... first of all, you have no idea of my martial arts background, or if i even have any... i could be a UFC champion for all you know, so to say, if you think you're good, then why don't you go try this or that... that's totally irrelevant to our discussion... which is: if you do not REGULARLY TRAIN ALIVE GRAPPLING, you are never going to be as effective as someone who does...
It's not that common, but there have been tests and real combat with Aikidoka's, but again because of the pacifist nature of Aikido, this isn't really common. If you really want to experience full power Aikido, give Shodokan or Yoshinkan a try. They're both very hard Aikido styles and have generally solidly trained instructors. Yoshinkan instructors are usually graduates of the riot police/senshusei course, and if you think you're good, or Aikido is easy, why don't you go give that course a try?
Erm... but Aikido masters like Mori Michiharu have been recorded to trash both MMA fighters and judoka's with ease. Well... maybe not totally easy but they won without injury. I do agree we need full combat experience though... but the students can get that through their own ways. The senshusei students of Yoshinkan fight Yakuzas in shinjuku, and Shodokan has their tournaments. Other students stage real fights or challenge other martial artists. I'm thinking of going a round with a BJJ friend.
you don't need to kill anyone... royce gracie didn't kill anyone in the ufc... in fact, he defeated most of his opponents and not hurt them at all... merely put them into a pain compliant hold or submission, and let the opponent give up all on his own... he did the very thing that aikido purports to be able to do, yet aikido practitioners have not been able to show these techniques against resisting opponents... won't even try to show during regular training by free sparring... very confusing!
not arguing with you about drilling... drill to perfect techniques... but you need REAL SPARRING to experience true resistance. if you don't believe, you can test aikido versus judo or bjj. i'm not saying that bjj or judo is better. i'm saying that the training methods employed by bjj and judo are designed to give you certain results... one of the biggest advantages of judo and bjj and wrestling is the progressive resistance culminating in FREE SPARRING... that is why judo and bjj work!!!
Yup... you don't have the slightist clue about Aikido... it's a dojo. I did try that, and so did my sempai. When we resisted each other, we could totally stop the technique. Thing was, when we resisted our master together at once, we got destroyed. It comes down to how much you train really, and if my junior sensei can use his Aikido to arrest criminals, then I don't see any need to worry about combat effectiveness. I think it is you who haven't experienced a thing but still talks about it
i'm not saying that aikido is not good... i'm saying that aikido practitioners don't practice actual FREE SPARRING... even wrestlers and judoka that spar EVERYDAY, when in a tournament, they are still not able to throw a resisting opponent with ease... think about that!!! even when they FREE SPAR, they cannot execute flawlessly against resisting opponents... now you want to tell me that you will just rag doll a guy when you've never put in the time sparring? how does that make any sense?
How do you know that? Did you ever meet one? The one I met trains big police officers, and they're easily over 200 lbs. Gracie and Co. are masters of their arts as well, so now it's down to experience vs. experience, but just talking about fully resisting opponents, we can definately do it, but of course you wouldn't believe it unless you are witnessing it yourself or is the one being thrown. I've given what information I could, the rest you'll need to find out for yourself in real life.
Then it's obvious that you haven't trained in Aikido seriously. There's been plenty of fights for Aikidoka's all over the world already. We don't really have to prove ourselves anymore. However, if you really want proof, why not just go challenge an Aikido master near you? I've yet to see anyone challenge my master, although he has dealt with them in the past. I was told by my master though: if you really want to, you can always go to fight somebody. Just be aware of the consequences for that.
It doesn't mean much to say that a japanese aikido master could take you down, resistance or not. FACT - aikido "masters" do not train their technique against fully resisting opponents like in Judo or wrestling or bjj. your master flipping you to the ground is one thing, but he's not gonna flip royce gracie or bj penn or randy couture so easily. and he wouldn't even know the amount of skill or pressure necessary to flip a fully resisting randy couture because he's never done it in training.
You'll see principles of ukemi in techniques like the armlock (hijishime) where the technique will hurt or even break the uke's elbow if they do not do the proper escape to reduce the pressure. Flipping is a technique that allows you to escape throws and joint controls safely. Both nage and uke are doing techniques, with uke doing the best possible escape method from what should be a killing blow. It is stressed that uke must protect himself at all times, and not surrender himself to the nage.
We can certainly resist during a technique, and at the higher levels uke does resist, but if you don't learn how to do the technique itself properly, you're just wrestling with the other person. Having experienced an actual Japanese master's technique I can tell you: resist or not, you're going down to the ground. Tomiki's aikido is a sport, and although it is more energetic, they still employ the same principles. The flips are actually escape techniques from what should be joint breakers.
you might want to look at TOMIKI AIKIDO tournaments... if you notice, when your opponent is resisting, there is never any fancy flips and wrist locks... WHY? Because in the regular course of your training, you have convinced yourself that UKE cannot resist or he will get hurt... that is why aikido practitioners don't know what to do when they are confronted by UKE that does not cooperate... need proof? TOMIKI AIKIDO TOURNAMENT!!!
Well, certainly having actual combat experience will go a long way for any warrior, but that would mean going out there and killing folks. In society, that is generally frowned upon. Asian martial arts evolved in civilized society, and lots of thought was put into how to train without killing. This is why you see so much solo training, as well as scripted pair work. But as any martial artist will tell you, if you do not train ur techniques repeatedly, then it won't be executed very cleanly.
this idea that you can train "without conflict" and by sheer repetition, turn the techniques into instinct, allowing instant use during "actual conflict" is a complete and total fallacy... if you do not experience conflict during training, you will not know how to react to it in real life street situation... that is what makes judo, wrestling, boxing, bjj, etc... so practical. it is the TRAINING METHOD with progressive RESISTANCE found in these martial arts training methods that make it useful.
First of all, relax a little. No need to take on such a harsh tone. I train in Aikido so I know the reason for the choreograhy. Many martial arts with long histories will have some form of kata work. They can be done in pairs or done solo. The idea is that by doing them repeatedly, the technique becomes ingrained and instinctual, allowing instant use during conflict without thinking. This is a demonstration of the mechanics behind the technique, but training in this manner has importance too.
it's not obvious to you that what's going on here is the result of years and years of HARD CHOREOGRAPHED training? It's CHOREOGRAPHED for fuck's sake... YOU CAN'T SEE IT? is it not totally and completely obvious to you? even a child can see that it is choreographed!!! do you think that this would really happen on the street? my god, what has the martial arts world come to????
Well, not so much an attack per say, but more of an irimi movement. By invading uke's territory, you can provoke a reaction (sasoi), and take advantage of that reaction. In a way, it's also a controlling method. The notion that Aikido has no attacks is false. It's just that rather than attacking to harm, we INITIALIZE the movement, so as to gain the initiative. The same principle applies to inviting uke to strike in a certain way. Sen no sen, Sen sen no sen, but never Go no sen. Act, not react.
wait... so you are saying that the UKE was blocking an ATTACK? You are saying that UESHIBA ATTACKED the UKE? Since when did AIKIDO practitioners ATTACK FIRST? Now you are really reaching here... What you propose is TOTALLY AGAINST the principles of Aikido. You are saying that Ueshiba first attacked the UKE!!! Who is the UKE??? This is a spotlight for Ueshiba... he is the master... he is the one getting attacked... not the other way around... please for Christ's sake!!!
Please look at the connection a little more closely. It wasn't an attack by uke in the first place, but a block. In this case, uke blocks what appears to be an incoming strike, but it's actually a redirection of the forward momentum of uke's charge. Once the momentum is under control by nage, the throw can be easily applied. Remember that each technique is meant for a different entry strike, whether it be a punch, a grab, or a kick, which will determine both the connection type, and the maai.
this notion that you can learn self-defense without sparring or any type of resistance training is totally ridiculous. it's like teaching a man to swim without entering the water. your attackers will ALWAYS try to resist whatever techniques you might use against them. if during training, all your partners allow you to do this or that, you will never know what it's like to train against a resisting opponent... COMPLETELY WORTHLESS TRAINING METHODS IS AIKIDO!!!
wow... so you have to train aikido for 40 years in order to be able to defend yourself against a guy who only train bjj for 3 years and judo for 5 years? if that is the case, wouldn't you say that bjj and judo are much more efficient? since when does it take 40 years to develop proficiency in self-defense? i think your statement is a clear demonstration of the fact that aikido is not an efficient self-defense martial art...
haha you people are hilarious. I did Karate as a kid. Wrestling in Jr High and High School. I trained Jiu Jitsu, MMA, and Krav Maga at Joe Stevenson's Kobra Kai in Victorville CA for almost a year. I've continued to train Jiu Jitsu at various other gyms after that. This stuff is a bunch of nonsense. Name any real fighters that use it. Name a military organization that uses it. There is nothing here that isn't better executed in a more effective martial art.
I just want to comment on something that might enlighten folks without much Aikido experience. If you look closely at the first throw (ura iriminage), the uke, or the one being thrown, would've had a broken neck from collision with the tatami mats had he not done a proper flying back breakfall. His hand hit the ground first and the whole arm became like a spring, reducing the falling motion and saving himself. He also properly kept his head up, so that it wasn't the first thing that lands.
@MegaMrname We also shouldn't say bad things about mixed martial artists. They do a lot of the pioneering research on martial arts now, since it's become a lucrative business. I think the rest of the MA community could stand to gain from this as it could lead to an increase in interest of martial arts overall. Also, their research will inevitably lead them to the ancient arts, as they ponder it's effectiveness. Their willingness to learn new styles is a big advantage over the traditional arts.
@harryrackham34 In Aikido, the aim is to subdue as painlessly as possible, and without injury. Quite frankly, it's far easier to hurt or even kill with the techniques we learn, since that's what they were originally for. But what does that achieve? Enemies, vendettas, hatred, and jail? How would any of that be worth it? When you train in martial arts seriously, and not just to mess around on the streets, you inevitably ask yourself these questions. O-sensei found his answer to be: promote peace.
@TheShadow4211 However, I don't believe the title Doshu refers to a rank. The Doshu is above, or if you prefer, outside of the Dan system of ranking. This also holds true for founders of other styles of martial arts (Aikido included). The titles aren't really ranks, but a designation of their social hiearchy. The Dan ranking system is really just a relative measure of a Budoka's ability level. Certain titles, like renshi, shihan, and hanshi, are given seperately and not corresponding to any Dan.
@TheShadow4211 As far as I'm aware of, Doshu is the hereditary title given to the successor of any organization that follows the Japanese iemoto system. The founder is usually called Soke, and his successors, or more specific to the iemoto system, his children and grandchildren, will be given the title of Doshu. There's other titles that accompany this title, such as dojocho, kancho, and whatnot. When people refer to Ueshiba-doshu, they usually mean the current head, which is Moriteru sensei.
Most aikido training is in a kata-like form for development of body, mind, awareness and spirit. same in judo, jiu-jitsu, karate. those that think one martial art is superior to another is simply ignorant. the real meaning is irime - meaning to enter, In short to hit someone. well, trained athletic attackers can sure make it look nice but balance can be taken quite easily and gravity is gravity. toffeebollox you'd better get back to your 'martial arts learning' on xbox and youtube tough guy
Seems like people here don't really understand the nuances of combat. Can nobody see how in control he was during the freestyle combat at the end? Everytime he threw, the body always lands in between him and another attacker. Ueshiba Moriteru is the heir to Aikikai, the main style of Aikido. Many practitioners can go on training their whole lives and never meet the man. To hear people disrespect the man without even doing their research is just disheartening. Don't knock it till you tried it.
Appreciate the reply. I'm not picking at Aikido, just pointing out limitations cos there are some other "asshats" who seem to have undergone a religious conversion and are attacking anyone who doesn't appreciate their zeal. For instance. in honesty, how long do you need to train to achieve the level of effectiveness of Matsuoka Sensei. Is it 5 years or 3 months - cos to claim braggin rights as a self defence system (as some want to) then to become effective is also a fact.
@qaiboroville87 I don't think he actually throws you. It's just that your arm is twisted to a point you naturally will jump to ease the pain, thus it seems like he's throwing you. I was on the receiving end of this before. What he is showing in this vid is a demonstration, with his "opponents" able to have proper landing to avoid hurting themselves. In a more practical situation, you'll just be on the floor.
@Nate3457 (I'm fairly new, so my answer might not be 100%) but in Aikido, the defender positions himself in a way that is dangerous or confusing to the attacker (e.g. behind him, next to him, or somewhere he can't continue his attack). This makes the attacker vulnerable; he needs to hold your hand to defend himself, and to feel where you are so he can keep attacking. IF he lets go, his attack ends (but less spectacularly), which was the goal anyways. Hope this was helpful.
@btocp I think the problem people see when they watch any aiki art aikido especially is the fact that uke's are throwing themselves. They aren't taking a technique and then taking a proper fall they are just chucking themselves on contact out of reaction. That's actually horrible ukemi not good ukemi. Looks great trains bad habits and poor nages. If everyone stopped that habit and actually attacked and then took a proper fall it would diminish the stigma.
This is embarrassing. This is a dance show. The Grandmaster of the sport- I take it with the name "Ueshiba" he's related to the sport 's creator, and he still needs opponents to throw themselves around. Forgeg this bullshit about "if they didn't they'd suffer"- they are OFFERING UP THEIR ARMS. The grandmaster can't deal with a simple punch, and in my experience even simple aikidoka will admit they can't. This is a martial sport- not self defense.
@jinsuihito As btocp already noticed, that sure sounds like something you might want to politely ask sensei about - about changing this aspect in your training. O'Sensei is often quoted as saying that Aikido is 90% Atemi (and Prof. Goldsbury has a point when he says that is completely wrong, Aikido is 100% Atemi, even if you don't see them). O'Sensei reportedly also said that there are three places for Atemi: before, during, and after a technique. Also check out George Ledyard on this topic.
@jinsuihito Sounds like a huge gap in training, not a flaw with Aikido. I can't recall where, but I read that O-Sensei wouldn't even take a student if he/she wasn't already a black belt. Personally, I've studied striking martial arts, so I've been hit in training. I've been in real fights, so I've been hit. (And no, I didn't always win.) That said, sounds like the 'top" Aikidoka was taken by surprise when the testee used proper atemi; not to inflict pain as much as distract. Hope dude passed.
@btocp I got to sit in on an Aikijitsu-ka for his 3rd degree black belt test. Our top Aikido-ka asked if he could resist a little bit, you know, give the testee a difficult time, and sensei said that was fine. When he did resist, the jitsu guy hit him, half force, enough to stun our guy and complete his technique. No where in our training is there preparations for actually taking a hit. Always ready to fall, sure, but never thinking about actually getting hit. :)
@btocp I got to sit in on an Aikijitsu-ka for his 3rd degree black belt test. Our top Aikido-ka asked if he could resist a little bit, you know, give the testee a difficult time, and sensei said that was fine. When he did resist, the jitsu guy hit him, half force, enough to stun our guy and complete his technique. No where in our training is there preparations for actually taking a hit. Always ready to fall, sure, but never thinking about actually getting hit. :)
@Leushenko Please realize that aikido is not just learning how to throw someone, but a big part is learning how to be thrown. It's called "ukemi" which translates to something like "the art of falling". So, yes... for many of the techniques, the uke (person receiving the technique) IS going with it because if they did not, they risk being injured by the person performing the technique (called the "nage" or "tori").
@scforza I train both judo and bjj... and i did once try to learn aikido... i visited 3 schools... the first 2 schools told me that i could not train with them if i offered resistance. the 3rd school, i wised up and didn't tell them i was going to resist. when i did, and the instructor could not do anything to me, and in fact looked really retarded, he asked me to leave and said that aikido was not for me. You should watch TOMIKI AIKIDO. full of resistance and no flip flopping wrist locks.
In fact... in many ways, AIKIDO is not very harmonious 和气 at all... I mean, surely on the street, your attacker would not know to flipflop out of your wristlock to not get hurt... You guys are always saying that "we roll, blah blah, this and that, because if not, your wrists and arms would be broken... go to any aikido dojo and find out the hard way..." Man is that the proper form of retaliation for a guy who grabs your shirt? Break his arm, or break his wrist? That's fucking cruel and mean!
Uhmmm, no, very well informed (ssshhh, 34 years of experience)...Hand grabs just don't work. During brawls fine motor skills break down so you won't snatch someone's fist out of mid-air. 2nd, nobody holds you by the wrist and then tries to hit you. Neck, throat, back of the head maybe, or else just smashes you from behind, sucker punch etc. These displays are fine, but recognize what they are, art demonstrations, like ballet, that require timing, skill and dedication. Nothing more.
Did Ueshiba assume that all of his attackers would not know how to escape a simple wristlock? Did Ueshiba assume that all of his attackers would just be complete morons and attack mindlessly without offering any sort of resistance? Don't get me wrong guys... AIKIDO LOOKS AWESOME!!! But you guys don't even learn how to escape wristlocks... How can you guys consider AIKIDO as a self-defense martial art when your teacher doesn't even teach you how to escape a wrist lock??? I don't get it!!!
Why is it that in aikido, you don't ever learn escapes or counter attacks? Why are you not taught how to escape from a wristlock? Why are you not taught how to turn a wrist lock into a counterattack? You see it all the time in Judo, BJJ, wrestling, and other HIGHLY ADVANCED GRAPPLING styles. WHY is it that counter defense and counter attacks are completely overlooked in Aikido? Is it because Ueshiba did not know them? Ueshiba was a jiujitsu master... surely he knew them...
@travismccullough1938 In many ways, the real problem of Aikido and aikido practitioners is that they BLINDLY ACCEPT aikido as realistic self-defense, when in fact, the way that aikido is taught and practiced has very little to do with self-defense. TO ALL CULT OF AIKIDO FOLLOWERS. You cannot expect to defend yourself on the street, if you do not defend yourself during training. Judo and BJJ guys spar with each other, and learn to tap. So can you. So why don't you?
I took aikido for 3 years and I have to say it is not an impressive looking martial art. Of all the techniques I learned, only the idea of getting off the centre line seemed useful in the least. I would seriously question the fate of an aikido master who faced a Gracie brother in a true competition. Most of the demo clips seem practiced and real situations rarely follow practiced scenarios. I would never use aikido alone for defence.
@mrswellrider what if you don't resist with brute force... but rather... flow into the proper defense against that wristlock or shoulder lock or armlock? are you even allowed to believe that there is a way to escape that wristlock or shoulder lock or armlock? if you are allowed to believe it, has your teacher ever bothered to show you the proper way to escape? if he has showed you, are you even allowed to practice that technique with an opponent who is also resisting? know what i'm saying?
@mrswellrider do you know that with the proper training, you can escape virtually any joint lock using nothing but leverage, momentum and flow... not strength or power... but the only way to develop that kind of sensitivity is to practice that in a LIVE SETTING... if your opponents are always cooperating with you... or if you are always cooperating with your opponent, that is a DEAD PATTERN... it is not ALIVE and it is not going to build your ability to FLOW to the next technique when u need.
@mrswellrider the techinques and sensitivity you develop during LIVE SPARRING can only be developed against an opponent who is actively resisting you with TECHNIQUE and not SHEER STRENGTH. when bjj players and judoka spar, they are not using strength against each other... they are using technique and leverage APPLIED IN A LIVE SETTING to resist, against another SKILLED PRACTITIONER and not a mindless idiot.
@mrswellrider nobody is talking about forceful resistance... in judo and bjj, we are taught how to escape armbars wristlocks etc... but we dont escape using force... we don't resist using force... we resist with more flow... 2 judoka are not using force to resist... they are using technique to resist... have you ever been taught an escape from one of your wristlocks? do you even have wristlock escapes in aikido or is that considered "resistance" and forbidden? what about shoulder lock escapes?
why is it that in judo and jiu-jitsu, the practitioners can practice randori and give each other full resistance and still have the option to tap out when someone is about to get hurt... and in aikido, randori is not allowed... i mean true randori where both practitioners are trying to catch each with submission... why is it that the training partners must cooperate? How can you learn anything in a LIVE environment when you are offered no resistance at all from training partners?
@CheetaReborn Going and trying out a martial art would be a good idea, except for the fact that there are dozens of them. You can't possibly try them all. So looking at video footage seems like a sensible first step. And if you can't point to any examples of what I asked for, despite your apparent affiction for Aikido, then I must conclude that that's because there *aren't any examples*.
@CheetaReborn My point is that I need proof before accepting that something works. I wouldn't take a medicine that hadn't been observed to be effective. And I won't study a martial art that hasn't been observed to be effective. Let's see Aikido working against opponents who are (i) competent and (ii) really trying. Then we'll have some evidence to work on. Until then, isn't it just blind faith that Aikido is effective?
@CheetaReborn No, I'm pretty sure no-one called it "Marital" Aikido. If you're going to nit-pick, best make sure you don't make mistakes yourself. As for MMA, you've mentioned it three times and I hadn't mentioned once. Why did *you* choose to bring up MMA? Oh, and finally, if Aikido was "made to protect yourself in the days of the samurai" then it was made about 100 years too late. That's probably why people don't understand it.
@GokiGandalf I 100% Agree! The trouble is there are too many ignorant opinionated people out there & the comments will keep coming. I have trained in Wado Ryu, Ju-Jitsu, Wing Chun & Aikido. I believe Aikido has some important core elements that can only help to further enhance the others. There is so many important things that can be taken from all the Martial Arts. To me its about finding out what works for the individual.
@KurtCobain198666 I don't know who is better and I mean no disrespect. I'm just asking a question. I asked the same question at my school since I wrote this and the answer I received was the same as yours it's a Japanese tradition, nothing more and doesn't mean he's the best at Aikido. Makes sense. As for who's better, I couldn't say. I do think Pilli Luna Sensei at Orange County Aikikai and Walter Muryasz at Torrey Pines Aikikai are pretty impresive.
I train and love Aikido. However, I have trained in shorinji kempo, wing chun, and kali and read about many other arts over the last 18 years. What I don't get and it bothers me is the nepotism found in Aikido. Can somebody explain? Why does the son and grandson automatically assume the position of doshu in Aikido? I think the best Aikidoist should gain such a title not be entitled to it because his last name is Ueshiba.
I was in a 3rd kyu ranking when i involved in a car accident few years ago.That guy walked out swearing at me & point a finger right up my face.I used only 2 techniques, that was iriminage & tenchinage.Few of the bystanders stop the fight when i was in the middle of doing tenchinage to him.He got bruises & cut on his face(i do not know how & when he got that), it happens to fast but i'm sure he didn't even touch me!Aikido really works, believe me!I'm going to 2nd dan this year.
Aikido is a martial art of self defense.What u learn in dojo is a variations of this art.U might not use everthing that u learned on the street.Few of this basic techniques r very useful but to master & understand it u need to learn variations of techniques(with patience) in this art & it takes 4-5 years to really used it on the street when it is needed.Whatever negative comments about it, i'm sure aikidoka will learn these:1)caution 2)distance 3)reflex 4)speed 5) stability & 6)timing.
Yeah but you have to understand the context to Ueshiba's statement. There are different expressions of Aikido, some are very martial some are the opposite. Which form you practice depends on your circumstances. The techniques are not Aikido what the techniques teach is Aikido so how you practice is irrelevent provided you gain an understanding of Aikido. In fact, there are no techniques in Aikido.
Practicing Aiklido since 8 years 6 hours on daily bases, 6 days a week and lived for one year at my sensei. You are not right in your statements here. Just take it how it is, study it and come back after 5 years when youhave the experiences and you know what Aikido is. And my congrats, I am speaking 4 languages. I also practiced Karate for a long time and had some experiences agains other arts. You will never know if you stay on this level. Greetings,
That is not my experience. I worked as a bouncer in Phoenix AZ nightclubs for a combined total of eight years. While I have never studied Aikido itself, I have studied and used it's principles and philosophies. I have studied striking styles, and aside from a couple of pushes, never used them in a club. Displacement, counters, joint locks, pressure points, and the occasional throw have all proved very useful in a violent environment. I have never had to explain my actions to a cop or a judge.
whether or not it's truly Aikido is not really relevant. What is relevant is that with a resisting opponent, Aikido doesn't really work... and therefore... a lousy form of self-defense... great if you want to learn dance coreography... but horrible if you want to learn to protect yourself from harm and develop self-confidence in yourself.
Im an MMA fighter who also trains Akido, by a 66 yr old master. Im not one to opinionate but I wouldn't be half the fighter if it wasnt for Akido. No style is worthless. Knowledge is power. Any real / experienced mma fighter will tell you this. Remember the days you felt this way for when you walk the path of a fighter it will be a most humbling journey:) gr8 journeys ! (no disrespect meant via comment.)
@TheShadow4211 And his son, Ueshiba Mitsuteru, is called Waka-sensei, which means young teacher. Back when Kisshomaru-sensei was alive, he was called Doshu, and Moriteru-sensei was called Waka-sensei, and now that Moriteru sensei took over, he is called Doshu. I think the title is transferred upon the death of the previous Doshu, and is given to the successor, as decreed by the previous Doshu.
Part of the reason that people doubt Aikido is that a lot of people who practice it don't truly understand what it is. People learn techniques, which are great, they help us learn how our bodies move and how the geometry of Aikido works. But these are just stepping stones. True Aikido does not use techniques, for the idea of 'trying' to apply a technique means that you can be resisted. If you are truly harmonized with your attacker then you are in sync with them, and the technique forms itself.
I study aikido. I'm only 14 and already a green belt.it brought peace to my life.
@aikidoisthebombyeah There is footage of Aikido being applied against full resistance boxing and other attacks, and against larger people with grappling experience, but the likes of you decry it because "it doesn't look like the kata". Live Aikido doesn't look like the kata, nor is it supposed to, but there's no winning with the closed-minded and impatient. Also, I've probably spent more time dabbling in other arts than you did in Aikido. I am done wasting time on you and your misguided anger.
@aikidoisthebombyeah I'm capable of executing several key Aikido techniques with full resistance on a heavier opponent (30lbs on me) who is set on canceling them the moment I start to move. Now, because your dabbling in this art didn't satisfy your short attention span, because you're incapable or unwilling to go deeper and find the lessons in the partnered kata, and because you can't tell the ring from reality... it's not the art's fault. It's your fault. And don't froth at the mouth, it's ugly
@aikidoisthebombyeah You don't see broken wrists in Tomiki for the same reason you don't see broken skulls in Judo. It's a stupid question to start with.
Now, if you want to fight against... um... trained fighters, which are a microscopic part of the population... you'd have to become one yourself. Regimen, athletics, concussions and all that.
As for street fighters... it depends on the encounter. I recommend you research the topic of self-defense, it's a lot larger than MMA or Aikido.
@Leushenko In order to save the wrist, one has to actively leap over to catch up to the wrist rotation. It is pure skeletal mechanics. You learn fast what happens otherwise, because inevitably we all sustain some injury due to stupidheadedness during fluidity drills.
In reality, nobody does leaps. There wouldn't be a fancy landing, just someone's head smashing into a bus stop, or a cracking noise, followed by a yelp, as their elbow is torn out.
@aikidoisthebombyeah As for the resistance... I wouldn't stay with a school where they don't practice resistance, either. I stayed because I pushed a 2nd degree black belt the way I would push someone in a schoolyard, and ended up upside down in the air, scared as shit, and then there was a bruise on my ass. This was during the first year of training.
I also stayed because I saw some people's ability to near-break wrists almost instantaneously, and other interesting things.
@aikidoisthebombyeah Your claims are simply not true. Many schools of Aikido train in counter-technique, and Aikido wristlocks aren't really. They're throws with a final ending, and could be done without the wrist entirely. Their outcome is determined a lot earlier than the flashy wrist bending on which your eyes focus.
As for shirt grabs... do you know what happens simultaneously with a shirt grab in real life? A punch to the face or worse. Aikido footwork allows for many degrees of damage.
@Kavafy Imagine your sword is in your belt, or you are drawing/ holding a sword. The reaching for the wrist/ body, which looks like they are just sticking their arms out, is the attacker attempting to control you. As you have a weapon, if they lose focus or control for a second they are dead. Thus, they "keep" coming at him. This can be applied to anyone trying to control/ grab something you have, but, really, trying to apply or think about it out of context is futile.
Fantastic demonstration! He makes his techniques very explicit so observers can see how they work.
maybe u r wondering if this martial art is effective or not but you'll know if u use it against anyone tries to attack u ....
it has very powerful technics .
What people also tend to forget it is choreographed which makes it look better than what it really is.... I wonder how he would deal with real attacks and not the silly hand waving wrist grabbing hugging stuff you see, and how he would deal with people actually resisting him!? I bet it would look totally different!!!!! But we'll never know cause they wont, saying its not in harmony with the spirit or some such guff..... This is prance and dance...... nothing else..... As for the martial?
Usually you fight with punches and kicks, there are several techniques that allow us to break your arm just with one boxing punch it's pretty efective and you wont have the time to react believe i thought it was bullshit but its not.
Im sorry you are right. One of my friends has two sons that are Navy Seals he told me last night that all of there combat training is Aikido. He could not tell me who the Sensei was because it is kept secret. Sorry!
Excellent execution and technique, the timing is excellent.
Nobody said "perfect". Most of these asshats are saying it doesn't work. Those of us who put real time into the art know better. I remember asking Matsuoka Sensei if it worked in the real world (after about a year of practice). He allowed me to try a real attack I got the first one in (as we practice to NOT hurt each other.) The second shot was met with what most perceive as flowery dance -- that split my lip on the way to the mat. I was already 3rd Dan in a hard style. It's just different.
I wrote ILL-informed, and I stick by that. You didn't argue a word of what I wrote to counter your claim, you just added more ignorance to the fray. What you're missing is the very essence of AiKiDo, what it's all about, which is agreement with the MOVEMENT, the MOTION of the attack. Yes, Aikido requires timing (as does any other martial art). But that doesn't make it "nothing more." That's FACT, and, just FYI, I've got about 10 years on you. Open your mind, you might learn something.
Just briefly, I've seen you trolling and am not going to indulge you in it... but it's necessary to point out that what you cal "pre-arranged forms" are no different than any other martial art. Or did you not spend many hours practicing the same kicks, punches, etc. in hard styles? Same as you don't actually see a knife-edge strike crushing someone's throat, you don't actually see an aikidoka breaking his partner's wrist, etc. But he's not letting ANYTHING happen. Go, learn, know, in a dojo.
It certainly has helped me more than once. In particular, coming off of a motorcycle onto concrete, from 65 to zero instantly, it was ONLY learning to roll/fall in Aikido that allowed me to walk away from the incident with nothing more than a bit of soreness, even though the 1100cc bike bounced across 3 lanes of traffic in downtown L.A. But thanks SO much for sharing your particular brand of clueless bullshit. Have a nice day.
And also that if Aikidoka were to go full out, there'd be broken bodies, and that's not how we choose to live or train. O-Sensei said that we have the right and responsibility to defend ourselves but, as Aikido is a loving art, we have the responsibility to do our best to catch them before they break their heads open on the concrete as well.
From a strictly practical standpoint, if we weren't going along WITH TECHNIQUES THAT WOULD WORK, we'd be broken up, run out of partners quickly. Capiche?
As an all-state level wrestler in school, I'd always choose Bottom, then grab their hand with my right hand and roll to the right. It works every time, because I can grab and drop/roll a lot faster than they can do anything else from that position. But understand, it's not using anything "against" them in Aikido. There is no Opponent, though there may be an Attacker, because we are all one. Accordingly, there is no "against," unless you aim to be against yourself.:) Good luck & skills!
Few, somebody who knows what they're doing... As far as I know, at my own meager level of training, the slap is there to reduce the impact of the roll by acting like a spring or shock absorber, reducing the momentum without damaging yourself by placing whatever energy that wasn't cancelled out by the slap's impact into the muscle/tendon complex instead. Those heal better than broken bones. Sometimes, like in jumping back breakfall, the slap is all you have to stop yourself from dying on the mats
You know absolutely nothing about Aikido, that is very clear. Aikido is all about harmony and peace (aikido = "the way of the harmonious sprit"). The style was specifically designed to be able to stop an attacker without being required to break them in the process. There is no machismo, and therefor no need to go on tv proving how tough you are.
Aikido is incredibly effective because it uses an opponent's own force against them, it is no more or less effective than any other MA.
Well, it depends on who you look at really. There's certain individuals that I won't name who does what's called "Aikido" but can't actually throw anyone in a fight. Totally compliant uke's and unfocused nage's make for very poor training. I train under the Yoshinkan style of Aikido, and we still got that hardcore training from back in the Kobukan era, where it was known as the "hell dojo". Search up Takeno, Mori, Chino, and the other Yoshinkan instructors, and you might be pleasently surprised.
listen man, the onus is on you to prove that BIGFOOT exists... I don't need to prove that BIGFOOT DOES NOT EXIST. You are saying that BIGFOOT exists. I'm saying that he doesn't. You need to prove it by giving evidence. Otherwise, all your yappin and flappin don't mean anything... I don't know why you have such a strong aversion to incorporating LIVE FREE SPARRING into your regular aikido training... It's like you hate the idea or something. I mean, what's the big deal? Why so much hate?
So anybody outside of UFC automatically have no credibility? I think your own words have made everything quite clear: you lack both experience and understanding in anything martial arts related. It's fine to be a fan of UFC, many martial artists are. But it's an entirely different thing to claim it as the paragon of all martial arts and that all martial arts must be tested within the confines of it's rules in order to be legitimate. Please actually train something seriously before commenting.
well the best fighters in the world test themselves in the UFC... as far as I know, there hasn't been any Yoshinkan "fighters" in the UFC... if you are a fighter and you don't aspire to fight in the UFC, then what kind of fighting are you doing really? and also for your information, just because it originated in japan or in asia, doesn't mean it's good... plenty of worthless fighting styles come from japan, china, and the rest of asia for that matter...
Well, at this point it's quite obvious I don't need to respond anymore. No martial artist can take you seriously at this point. Don't need to train in it to know you say? Pre-arranged kata's with cooperating partner is worthless you say? You do realize that all of the kobudo of Japan as well as many other asian arts use this approach to training right? To say that there's no fighting Aikidoka's in the world means you know nothing of the Aikido world in reality. I train in Yoshinkan, so I know...
look man, combat and self-defense, it's not rocket science... hand to hand combat has been around for thousands of years, and many people way before ueshiba and the gracies have been developing and analyzing it... if getting good at REAL fighting only required a lot of repetition of techniques and it didn't actually require that you REALLY fight during training, then EVERY JOE BLOW would be a warrior fighter.
you are right, i haven't trained aikido seriously... i don't need to... anything that has me practicing PRE-ARRANGED FORMS with a cooperating partner is going to be worthless... and for you to say that there are plenty of fights with aikidokas all over the world is completely WRONG... the whole philosophy of AIKIDO prevents its practitioners from FIGHTING... Hell, it doesn't even let them RESIST in the dojo while training, you think that it will condone FIGHTING??? Who are you kidding here?
why do you have to fight??? for a person that claims to be an aikido practitioner, you sure seem to advocate a lot of violence. I don't understand... why can't you just do a friendly grappling match where it's just a test of submission skills... i mean technically, aikido practitioners are masters of joint locks, so why not? why does it have to be an all out fight? why does it have to be a fight at all? why can't you just SPAR DURING TRAINING??? Why does it have to be ALL or nothing?
Mori Michiharu has been recorded to trash both MMA fighters and judoka's with ease, eh? I'd like to see that. I'd bet 100 bucks that you cannot produce ANY RECORDED VIDEO of those encounters. WHY? Because it's all hearsay. You expect me to believe that an AIKIDO MASTER accepts a challenge against a Judoka or MMA Fighter and there is NO VIDEO TAPE? Do you know how hard it is to get an AIKIDO MASTER to accept a FIGHT? So Michiharu ACCEPTS TO FIGHT and there is no video tape? I don't believe it!
How well do you think a policeman is going to do in the UFC? Are you for real man? There is a huge difference between a guy that's trained to apprehend the AVERAGE CRIMINAL than a PROFESSIONAL FIGHTER. Hard styles of AIKIDO of course are much tougher!!! WHY? BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY INCORPORATE MORE LIVE TRAINING. They are tougher not because their style is tougher or they have some secret technique. it's because of their TRAINING METHODS!!! Which precisely proves my point! My God!!
I think you are still missing the point... first of all, you have no idea of my martial arts background, or if i even have any... i could be a UFC champion for all you know, so to say, if you think you're good, then why don't you go try this or that... that's totally irrelevant to our discussion... which is: if you do not REGULARLY TRAIN ALIVE GRAPPLING, you are never going to be as effective as someone who does...
It's not that common, but there have been tests and real combat with Aikidoka's, but again because of the pacifist nature of Aikido, this isn't really common. If you really want to experience full power Aikido, give Shodokan or Yoshinkan a try. They're both very hard Aikido styles and have generally solidly trained instructors. Yoshinkan instructors are usually graduates of the riot police/senshusei course, and if you think you're good, or Aikido is easy, why don't you go give that course a try?
Erm... but Aikido masters like Mori Michiharu have been recorded to trash both MMA fighters and judoka's with ease. Well... maybe not totally easy but they won without injury. I do agree we need full combat experience though... but the students can get that through their own ways. The senshusei students of Yoshinkan fight Yakuzas in shinjuku, and Shodokan has their tournaments. Other students stage real fights or challenge other martial artists. I'm thinking of going a round with a BJJ friend.
you don't need to kill anyone... royce gracie didn't kill anyone in the ufc... in fact, he defeated most of his opponents and not hurt them at all... merely put them into a pain compliant hold or submission, and let the opponent give up all on his own... he did the very thing that aikido purports to be able to do, yet aikido practitioners have not been able to show these techniques against resisting opponents... won't even try to show during regular training by free sparring... very confusing!
not arguing with you about drilling... drill to perfect techniques... but you need REAL SPARRING to experience true resistance. if you don't believe, you can test aikido versus judo or bjj. i'm not saying that bjj or judo is better. i'm saying that the training methods employed by bjj and judo are designed to give you certain results... one of the biggest advantages of judo and bjj and wrestling is the progressive resistance culminating in FREE SPARRING... that is why judo and bjj work!!!
Yup... you don't have the slightist clue about Aikido... it's a dojo. I did try that, and so did my sempai. When we resisted each other, we could totally stop the technique. Thing was, when we resisted our master together at once, we got destroyed. It comes down to how much you train really, and if my junior sensei can use his Aikido to arrest criminals, then I don't see any need to worry about combat effectiveness. I think it is you who haven't experienced a thing but still talks about it
i'm not saying that aikido is not good... i'm saying that aikido practitioners don't practice actual FREE SPARRING... even wrestlers and judoka that spar EVERYDAY, when in a tournament, they are still not able to throw a resisting opponent with ease... think about that!!! even when they FREE SPAR, they cannot execute flawlessly against resisting opponents... now you want to tell me that you will just rag doll a guy when you've never put in the time sparring? how does that make any sense?
How do you know that? Did you ever meet one? The one I met trains big police officers, and they're easily over 200 lbs. Gracie and Co. are masters of their arts as well, so now it's down to experience vs. experience, but just talking about fully resisting opponents, we can definately do it, but of course you wouldn't believe it unless you are witnessing it yourself or is the one being thrown. I've given what information I could, the rest you'll need to find out for yourself in real life.
Then it's obvious that you haven't trained in Aikido seriously. There's been plenty of fights for Aikidoka's all over the world already. We don't really have to prove ourselves anymore. However, if you really want proof, why not just go challenge an Aikido master near you? I've yet to see anyone challenge my master, although he has dealt with them in the past. I was told by my master though: if you really want to, you can always go to fight somebody. Just be aware of the consequences for that.
It doesn't mean much to say that a japanese aikido master could take you down, resistance or not. FACT - aikido "masters" do not train their technique against fully resisting opponents like in Judo or wrestling or bjj. your master flipping you to the ground is one thing, but he's not gonna flip royce gracie or bj penn or randy couture so easily. and he wouldn't even know the amount of skill or pressure necessary to flip a fully resisting randy couture because he's never done it in training.
You'll see principles of ukemi in techniques like the armlock (hijishime) where the technique will hurt or even break the uke's elbow if they do not do the proper escape to reduce the pressure. Flipping is a technique that allows you to escape throws and joint controls safely. Both nage and uke are doing techniques, with uke doing the best possible escape method from what should be a killing blow. It is stressed that uke must protect himself at all times, and not surrender himself to the nage.
We can certainly resist during a technique, and at the higher levels uke does resist, but if you don't learn how to do the technique itself properly, you're just wrestling with the other person. Having experienced an actual Japanese master's technique I can tell you: resist or not, you're going down to the ground. Tomiki's aikido is a sport, and although it is more energetic, they still employ the same principles. The flips are actually escape techniques from what should be joint breakers.
you might want to look at TOMIKI AIKIDO tournaments... if you notice, when your opponent is resisting, there is never any fancy flips and wrist locks... WHY? Because in the regular course of your training, you have convinced yourself that UKE cannot resist or he will get hurt... that is why aikido practitioners don't know what to do when they are confronted by UKE that does not cooperate... need proof? TOMIKI AIKIDO TOURNAMENT!!!
Well, certainly having actual combat experience will go a long way for any warrior, but that would mean going out there and killing folks. In society, that is generally frowned upon. Asian martial arts evolved in civilized society, and lots of thought was put into how to train without killing. This is why you see so much solo training, as well as scripted pair work. But as any martial artist will tell you, if you do not train ur techniques repeatedly, then it won't be executed very cleanly.
this idea that you can train "without conflict" and by sheer repetition, turn the techniques into instinct, allowing instant use during "actual conflict" is a complete and total fallacy... if you do not experience conflict during training, you will not know how to react to it in real life street situation... that is what makes judo, wrestling, boxing, bjj, etc... so practical. it is the TRAINING METHOD with progressive RESISTANCE found in these martial arts training methods that make it useful.
First of all, relax a little. No need to take on such a harsh tone. I train in Aikido so I know the reason for the choreograhy. Many martial arts with long histories will have some form of kata work. They can be done in pairs or done solo. The idea is that by doing them repeatedly, the technique becomes ingrained and instinctual, allowing instant use during conflict without thinking. This is a demonstration of the mechanics behind the technique, but training in this manner has importance too.
it's not obvious to you that what's going on here is the result of years and years of HARD CHOREOGRAPHED training? It's CHOREOGRAPHED for fuck's sake... YOU CAN'T SEE IT? is it not totally and completely obvious to you? even a child can see that it is choreographed!!! do you think that this would really happen on the street? my god, what has the martial arts world come to????
Well, not so much an attack per say, but more of an irimi movement. By invading uke's territory, you can provoke a reaction (sasoi), and take advantage of that reaction. In a way, it's also a controlling method. The notion that Aikido has no attacks is false. It's just that rather than attacking to harm, we INITIALIZE the movement, so as to gain the initiative. The same principle applies to inviting uke to strike in a certain way. Sen no sen, Sen sen no sen, but never Go no sen. Act, not react.
wait... so you are saying that the UKE was blocking an ATTACK? You are saying that UESHIBA ATTACKED the UKE? Since when did AIKIDO practitioners ATTACK FIRST? Now you are really reaching here... What you propose is TOTALLY AGAINST the principles of Aikido. You are saying that Ueshiba first attacked the UKE!!! Who is the UKE??? This is a spotlight for Ueshiba... he is the master... he is the one getting attacked... not the other way around... please for Christ's sake!!!
Please look at the connection a little more closely. It wasn't an attack by uke in the first place, but a block. In this case, uke blocks what appears to be an incoming strike, but it's actually a redirection of the forward momentum of uke's charge. Once the momentum is under control by nage, the throw can be easily applied. Remember that each technique is meant for a different entry strike, whether it be a punch, a grab, or a kick, which will determine both the connection type, and the maai.
this notion that you can learn self-defense without sparring or any type of resistance training is totally ridiculous. it's like teaching a man to swim without entering the water. your attackers will ALWAYS try to resist whatever techniques you might use against them. if during training, all your partners allow you to do this or that, you will never know what it's like to train against a resisting opponent... COMPLETELY WORTHLESS TRAINING METHODS IS AIKIDO!!!
wow... so you have to train aikido for 40 years in order to be able to defend yourself against a guy who only train bjj for 3 years and judo for 5 years? if that is the case, wouldn't you say that bjj and judo are much more efficient? since when does it take 40 years to develop proficiency in self-defense? i think your statement is a clear demonstration of the fact that aikido is not an efficient self-defense martial art...
haha you people are hilarious. I did Karate as a kid. Wrestling in Jr High and High School. I trained Jiu Jitsu, MMA, and Krav Maga at Joe Stevenson's Kobra Kai in Victorville CA for almost a year. I've continued to train Jiu Jitsu at various other gyms after that. This stuff is a bunch of nonsense. Name any real fighters that use it. Name a military organization that uses it. There is nothing here that isn't better executed in a more effective martial art.
I just want to comment on something that might enlighten folks without much Aikido experience. If you look closely at the first throw (ura iriminage), the uke, or the one being thrown, would've had a broken neck from collision with the tatami mats had he not done a proper flying back breakfall. His hand hit the ground first and the whole arm became like a spring, reducing the falling motion and saving himself. He also properly kept his head up, so that it wasn't the first thing that lands.
@MegaMrname
We also shouldn't say bad things about mixed martial artists. They do a lot of the pioneering research on martial arts now, since it's become a lucrative business. I think the rest of the MA community could stand to gain from this as it could lead to an increase in interest of martial arts overall. Also, their research will inevitably lead them to the ancient arts, as they ponder it's effectiveness. Their willingness to learn new styles is a big advantage over the traditional arts.
@harryrackham34 In Aikido, the aim is to subdue as painlessly as possible, and without injury. Quite frankly, it's far easier to hurt or even kill with the techniques we learn, since that's what they were originally for. But what does that achieve? Enemies, vendettas, hatred, and jail? How would any of that be worth it? When you train in martial arts seriously, and not just to mess around on the streets, you inevitably ask yourself these questions. O-sensei found his answer to be: promote peace.
@TheShadow4211 However, I don't believe the title Doshu refers to a rank. The Doshu is above, or if you prefer, outside of the Dan system of ranking. This also holds true for founders of other styles of martial arts (Aikido included). The titles aren't really ranks, but a designation of their social hiearchy. The Dan ranking system is really just a relative measure of a Budoka's ability level. Certain titles, like renshi, shihan, and hanshi, are given seperately and not corresponding to any Dan.
@TheShadow4211 As far as I'm aware of, Doshu is the hereditary title given to the successor of any organization that follows the Japanese iemoto system. The founder is usually called Soke, and his successors, or more specific to the iemoto system, his children and grandchildren, will be given the title of Doshu. There's other titles that accompany this title, such as dojocho, kancho, and whatnot. When people refer to Ueshiba-doshu, they usually mean the current head, which is Moriteru sensei.
Most aikido training is in a kata-like form for development of body, mind, awareness and spirit. same in judo, jiu-jitsu, karate. those that think one martial art is superior to another is simply ignorant. the real meaning is irime - meaning to enter, In short to hit someone. well, trained athletic attackers can sure make it look nice but balance can be taken quite easily and gravity is gravity. toffeebollox you'd better get back to your 'martial arts learning' on xbox and youtube tough guy
Seems like people here don't really understand the nuances of combat. Can nobody see how in control he was during the freestyle combat at the end? Everytime he threw, the body always lands in between him and another attacker. Ueshiba Moriteru is the heir to Aikikai, the main style of Aikido. Many practitioners can go on training their whole lives and never meet the man. To hear people disrespect the man without even doing their research is just disheartening. Don't knock it till you tried it.
Appreciate the reply. I'm not picking at Aikido, just pointing out limitations cos there are some other "asshats" who seem to have undergone a religious conversion and are attacking anyone who doesn't appreciate their zeal. For instance. in honesty, how long do you need to train to achieve the level of effectiveness of Matsuoka Sensei. Is it 5 years or 3 months - cos to claim braggin rights as a self defence system (as some want to) then to become effective is also a fact.
@qaiboroville87 I don't think he actually throws you. It's just that your arm is twisted to a point you naturally will jump to ease the pain, thus it seems like he's throwing you. I was on the receiving end of this before. What he is showing in this vid is a demonstration, with his "opponents" able to have proper landing to avoid hurting themselves. In a more practical situation, you'll just be on the floor.
@Nate3457 (I'm fairly new, so my answer might not be 100%) but in Aikido, the defender positions himself in a way that is dangerous or confusing to the attacker (e.g. behind him, next to him, or somewhere he can't continue his attack). This makes the attacker vulnerable; he needs to hold your hand to defend himself, and to feel where you are so he can keep attacking. IF he lets go, his attack ends (but less spectacularly), which was the goal anyways. Hope this was helpful.
@btocp I think the problem people see when they watch any aiki art aikido especially is the fact that uke's are throwing themselves. They aren't taking a technique and then taking a proper fall they are just chucking themselves on contact out of reaction. That's actually horrible ukemi not good ukemi. Looks great trains bad habits and poor nages. If everyone stopped that habit and actually attacked and then took a proper fall it would diminish the stigma.
This is embarrassing. This is a dance show. The Grandmaster of the sport- I take it with the name "Ueshiba" he's related to the sport 's creator, and he still needs opponents to throw themselves around. Forgeg this bullshit about "if they didn't they'd suffer"- they are OFFERING UP THEIR ARMS. The grandmaster can't deal with a simple punch, and in my experience even simple aikidoka will admit they can't. This is a martial sport- not self defense.
@jinsuihito As btocp already noticed, that sure sounds like something you might want to politely ask sensei about - about changing this aspect in your training. O'Sensei is often quoted as saying that Aikido is 90% Atemi (and Prof. Goldsbury has a point when he says that is completely wrong, Aikido is 100% Atemi, even if you don't see them). O'Sensei reportedly also said that there are three places for Atemi: before, during, and after a technique. Also check out George Ledyard on this topic.
@jinsuihito Sounds like a huge gap in training, not a flaw with Aikido. I can't recall where, but I read that O-Sensei wouldn't even take a student if he/she wasn't already a black belt. Personally, I've studied striking martial arts, so I've been hit in training. I've been in real fights, so I've been hit. (And no, I didn't always win.) That said, sounds like the 'top" Aikidoka was taken by surprise when the testee used proper atemi; not to inflict pain as much as distract. Hope dude passed.
@btocp I got to sit in on an Aikijitsu-ka for his 3rd degree black belt test. Our top Aikido-ka asked if he could resist a little bit, you know, give the testee a difficult time, and sensei said that was fine. When he did resist, the jitsu guy hit him, half force, enough to stun our guy and complete his technique. No where in our training is there preparations for actually taking a hit. Always ready to fall, sure, but never thinking about actually getting hit. :)
@btocp I got to sit in on an Aikijitsu-ka for his 3rd degree black belt test. Our top Aikido-ka asked if he could resist a little bit, you know, give the testee a difficult time, and sensei said that was fine. When he did resist, the jitsu guy hit him, half force, enough to stun our guy and complete his technique. No where in our training is there preparations for actually taking a hit. Always ready to fall, sure, but never thinking about actually getting hit. :)
@Leushenko Please realize that aikido is not just learning how to throw someone, but a big part is learning how to be thrown. It's called "ukemi" which translates to something like "the art of falling". So, yes... for many of the techniques, the uke (person receiving the technique) IS going with it because if they did not, they risk being injured by the person performing the technique (called the "nage" or "tori").
@scforza I train both judo and bjj... and i did once try to learn aikido... i visited 3 schools... the first 2 schools told me that i could not train with them if i offered resistance. the 3rd school, i wised up and didn't tell them i was going to resist. when i did, and the instructor could not do anything to me, and in fact looked really retarded, he asked me to leave and said that aikido was not for me. You should watch TOMIKI AIKIDO. full of resistance and no flip flopping wrist locks.
In fact... in many ways, AIKIDO is not very harmonious 和气 at all... I mean, surely on the street, your attacker would not know to flipflop out of your wristlock to not get hurt... You guys are always saying that "we roll, blah blah, this and that, because if not, your wrists and arms would be broken... go to any aikido dojo and find out the hard way..." Man is that the proper form of retaliation for a guy who grabs your shirt? Break his arm, or break his wrist? That's fucking cruel and mean!
Uhmmm, no, very well informed (ssshhh, 34 years of experience)...Hand grabs just don't work. During brawls fine motor skills break down so you won't snatch someone's fist out of mid-air. 2nd, nobody holds you by the wrist and then tries to hit you. Neck, throat, back of the head maybe, or else just smashes you from behind, sucker punch etc. These displays are fine, but recognize what they are, art demonstrations, like ballet, that require timing, skill and dedication. Nothing more.
Did Ueshiba assume that all of his attackers would not know how to escape a simple wristlock? Did Ueshiba assume that all of his attackers would just be complete morons and attack mindlessly without offering any sort of resistance? Don't get me wrong guys... AIKIDO LOOKS AWESOME!!! But you guys don't even learn how to escape wristlocks... How can you guys consider AIKIDO as a self-defense martial art when your teacher doesn't even teach you how to escape a wrist lock??? I don't get it!!!
Why is it that in aikido, you don't ever learn escapes or counter attacks? Why are you not taught how to escape from a wristlock? Why are you not taught how to turn a wrist lock into a counterattack? You see it all the time in Judo, BJJ, wrestling, and other HIGHLY ADVANCED GRAPPLING styles. WHY is it that counter defense and counter attacks are completely overlooked in Aikido? Is it because Ueshiba did not know them? Ueshiba was a jiujitsu master... surely he knew them...
@travismccullough1938 In many ways, the real problem of Aikido and aikido practitioners is that they BLINDLY ACCEPT aikido as realistic self-defense, when in fact, the way that aikido is taught and practiced has very little to do with self-defense. TO ALL CULT OF AIKIDO FOLLOWERS. You cannot expect to defend yourself on the street, if you do not defend yourself during training. Judo and BJJ guys spar with each other, and learn to tap. So can you. So why don't you?
I took aikido for 3 years and I have to say it is not an impressive looking martial art. Of all the techniques I learned, only the idea of getting off the centre line seemed useful in the least. I would seriously question the fate of an aikido master who faced a Gracie brother in a true competition. Most of the demo clips seem practiced and real situations rarely follow practiced scenarios. I would never use aikido alone for defence.
@mrswellrider what if you don't resist with brute force... but rather... flow into the proper defense against that wristlock or shoulder lock or armlock? are you even allowed to believe that there is a way to escape that wristlock or shoulder lock or armlock? if you are allowed to believe it, has your teacher ever bothered to show you the proper way to escape? if he has showed you, are you even allowed to practice that technique with an opponent who is also resisting? know what i'm saying?
@mrswellrider do you know that with the proper training, you can escape virtually any joint lock using nothing but leverage, momentum and flow... not strength or power... but the only way to develop that kind of sensitivity is to practice that in a LIVE SETTING... if your opponents are always cooperating with you... or if you are always cooperating with your opponent, that is a DEAD PATTERN... it is not ALIVE and it is not going to build your ability to FLOW to the next technique when u need.
@mrswellrider the techinques and sensitivity you develop during LIVE SPARRING can only be developed against an opponent who is actively resisting you with TECHNIQUE and not SHEER STRENGTH. when bjj players and judoka spar, they are not using strength against each other... they are using technique and leverage APPLIED IN A LIVE SETTING to resist, against another SKILLED PRACTITIONER and not a mindless idiot.
@mrswellrider nobody is talking about forceful resistance... in judo and bjj, we are taught how to escape armbars wristlocks etc... but we dont escape using force... we don't resist using force... we resist with more flow... 2 judoka are not using force to resist... they are using technique to resist... have you ever been taught an escape from one of your wristlocks? do you even have wristlock escapes in aikido or is that considered "resistance" and forbidden? what about shoulder lock escapes?
why is it that in judo and jiu-jitsu, the practitioners can practice randori and give each other full resistance and still have the option to tap out when someone is about to get hurt... and in aikido, randori is not allowed... i mean true randori where both practitioners are trying to catch each with submission... why is it that the training partners must cooperate? How can you learn anything in a LIVE environment when you are offered no resistance at all from training partners?
@CheetaReborn Going and trying out a martial art would be a good idea, except for the fact that there are dozens of them. You can't possibly try them all. So looking at video footage seems like a sensible first step. And if you can't point to any examples of what I asked for, despite your apparent affiction for Aikido, then I must conclude that that's because there *aren't any examples*.
@CheetaReborn My point is that I need proof before accepting that something works. I wouldn't take a medicine that hadn't been observed to be effective. And I won't study a martial art that hasn't been observed to be effective. Let's see Aikido working against opponents who are (i) competent and (ii) really trying. Then we'll have some evidence to work on. Until then, isn't it just blind faith that Aikido is effective?
@CheetaReborn No, I'm pretty sure no-one called it "Marital" Aikido. If you're going to nit-pick, best make sure you don't make mistakes yourself. As for MMA, you've mentioned it three times and I hadn't mentioned once. Why did *you* choose to bring up MMA? Oh, and finally, if Aikido was "made to protect yourself in the days of the samurai" then it was made about 100 years too late. That's probably why people don't understand it.
@GokiGandalf I 100% Agree! The trouble is there are too many ignorant opinionated people out there & the comments will keep coming. I have trained in Wado Ryu, Ju-Jitsu, Wing Chun & Aikido. I believe Aikido has some important core elements that can only help to further enhance the others. There is so many important things that can be taken from all the Martial Arts. To me its about finding out what works for the individual.
@KurtCobain198666
I don't know who is better and I mean no disrespect. I'm just asking a question. I asked the same question at my school since I wrote this and the answer I received was the same as yours it's a Japanese tradition, nothing more and doesn't mean he's the best at Aikido. Makes sense.
As for who's better, I couldn't say. I do think Pilli Luna Sensei at Orange County Aikikai and Walter Muryasz at Torrey Pines Aikikai are pretty impresive.
I train and love Aikido. However, I have trained in shorinji kempo, wing chun, and kali and read about many other arts over the last 18 years. What I don't get and it bothers me is the nepotism found in Aikido. Can somebody explain? Why does the son and grandson automatically assume the position of doshu in Aikido? I think the best Aikidoist should gain such a title not be entitled to it because his last name is Ueshiba.
I was in a 3rd kyu ranking when i involved in a car accident few years ago.That guy walked out swearing at me & point a finger right up my face.I used only 2 techniques, that was iriminage & tenchinage.Few of the bystanders stop the fight when i was in the middle of doing tenchinage to him.He got bruises & cut on his face(i do not know how & when he got that), it happens to fast but i'm sure he didn't even touch me!Aikido really works, believe me!I'm going to 2nd dan this year.
Aikido is a martial art of self defense.What u learn in dojo is a variations of this art.U might not use everthing that u learned on the street.Few of this basic techniques r very useful but to master & understand it u need to learn variations of techniques(with patience) in this art & it takes 4-5 years to really used it on the street when it is needed.Whatever negative comments about it, i'm sure aikidoka will learn these:1)caution 2)distance 3)reflex 4)speed 5) stability & 6)timing.
Yeah but you have to understand the context to Ueshiba's statement. There are different expressions of Aikido, some are very martial some are the opposite. Which form you practice depends on your circumstances. The techniques are not Aikido what the techniques teach is Aikido so how you practice is irrelevent provided you gain an understanding of Aikido. In fact, there are no techniques in Aikido.
Practicing Aiklido since 8 years 6 hours on daily bases, 6 days a week and lived for one year at my sensei. You are not right in your statements here. Just take it how it is, study it and come back after 5 years when youhave the experiences and you know what Aikido is. And my congrats, I am speaking 4 languages. I also practiced Karate for a long time and had some experiences agains other arts. You will never know if you stay on this level. Greetings,
That is not my experience. I worked as a bouncer in Phoenix AZ nightclubs for a combined total of eight years. While I have never studied Aikido itself, I have studied and used it's principles and philosophies. I have studied striking styles, and aside from a couple of pushes, never used them in a club. Displacement, counters, joint locks, pressure points, and the occasional throw have all proved very useful in a violent environment. I have never had to explain my actions to a cop or a judge.
@MegaMrname No what the person is saying is Aikido is a martial art. As far as fighting goes its use less.
whether or not it's truly Aikido is not really relevant. What is relevant is that with a resisting opponent, Aikido doesn't really work... and therefore... a lousy form of self-defense... great if you want to learn dance coreography... but horrible if you want to learn to protect yourself from harm and develop self-confidence in yourself.