Was Endwalker a Good FFXIV Expansion?
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- This one is slightly less edited than my average discussion video, because really, I just wanted to share my feelings about raiding in this Expansion. Would love to hear your thoughts, too!
As a side note, I know some of the quality on the old footage is a little choppy. To fix this going forward, I've bought an extra dive specifically to keep footage on, so I can store native HQ footage rather than needing to resort to my old UA-cam videos. I'll build up a nice archive. Thank you for understanding!
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DSR Full Video: • The Raid That Changed ...
TOP Full Video: • The Raid that Fracture...
0:00 Intro
1:27 Job Design
11:00 Extreme Trials
13:48 Savage
16:44 Hitboxes and Positionals
18:14 Third Turns
20:26 P8S
23:24 Door Bosses
26:45 Healing
36:15 Fight Difficulty vs Job Difficulty
37:47 Ultimates
42:29 Criterion
#ffxiv #endwalker #dawntrail - Ігри
Oh my god THANK YOU about the limit cut statement; “everything is limit cut” is suuuuuch an oversimplification when mechanics are so cool and can be parallels in other fights in higher tiers
It always feels like such a bad faith complaint.
I agree. I had a friend who wanted to start savage. He kept hearing about limit cuts in P9S and P10S so he thought just do Rubicante to learn. And I had to tell him that LC is more about the markers, those 3 LC are nothing alike except the markers.
@@slappymcdoogle7297the one in 10 is barely even traditional? That one is the lasers right?
I just get annoyed by the name usage here, while we reuse names on variations of old mechanics all over the place in MMOs, the number markers are very clearly just that - ordering numbers, there's so many variations of what they indicate that trying to fit them all under an old mechanic name is silly. Also the fact that in A11S, Limit Cut wasn't even the actual number mechanic, it's just a stacking soft enrage damage up that preceded the fights major mechanics, it's present in normal too! What the Japanese call it, "Dice" certainly gives off a better impression of "This fights numbered order mechanic".
@@mrcool9090 yes it is, but everyone still just labels it Limit cut hahahaha
It was actually kinda funny. I clicked on this video to see what you had to say. You said "yes" then the video paused to buffer for a long time. To the point where I wondered if I had imagined the 40 min run time.
pepehands
I actually think p12s DID perfectly meld Story and gameplay in a raid encounter. Endwalker's final tiers have been really out there in terms of a Mechanical narrative.
For P4S P2 it was that of stage play. With a multi act structure, that ends with a curtain call where everyone takes a bow.
P8S P2 is a look behind the curtain of the how ascians created life, with we ourselves creating phoenix at the end.
P12 takes it the farthest i've seen in any fight. Every mechanic in the first part is Athena proclaiming "this is who i am, and i'll give you an example of what my world would be like.". To name a few.
The beginning of the fight has Glaukopis which is one of Athena’s epithets that describes her as being owl-eyed. and trinity of souls, which is the Greek triad that she is a part of. She starts a dialogos, which is a just a dialogue, she shows you a paradeigma, which is just an example of her world and many other things that all link back to her.
So P1 is her starting a dialogue with you as she explains herself and gives examples of what her world is or would be like. Once you beat her, she cries that you rejected her. Which is somewhat literal. She kind of poured her heart and soul out to you.
But the second phase takes it to the extreme. She outlines every aspect of her world and the game uses real world disproven theories as a basis for this. Not only do we see these disproven theories, we solve the mechanics in the way that they were disproven in the real world. Which is why at the end of the fight she has something of a mental break down and starts asking questions like 何故……ワタシはワタシなの (why am i me) which is her questioning her own existence after you systematically dismantled her entire worldview.
While this is interesting and impressive by itself, it also provides insight into the actual story. Had it not been hermes, it would have been athena. The reality is that the lack of peer review allowed people to go wild with power before anyone could grab ahold of the situation. The ancients weren't perfect. As much they might think they were truly united, the fact that hermes exists shows that even among them, there were people that weren't treated the way they needed to be. There's a lot more to dive into but i wanted to keep this brief. As critical as we are of endwalker, talent is shown everywhere. Just maybe not in the ways people are used to looking for or even appreciate. Which is why i wanted to write this.
P12S is up there in general to be the best non ultimate fight of the game, love it. Also it begs to question how much Athena was influenced by the Blackstone Sabik (and by extension the high Seraph Ultima), essencially bending her to its will? Because that point is rather left ambigious or up to interpretation. But yeah the Ancients were nigh perfect but the sole existence of people like Hermes and Athena is testament that not everything was as bright as it seemed.
Dude I had no idea about that, that is so fucking cool. The only reason I never looked into phase 2 of P12 was because I was so disappointed with the music lol, her phase 1 theme is a banger but phase 2 is so repetitive and doesn't really fit with the previous electronic theme they were building up.
thats so cool
@@Lyu-Phy I believe the explanation given in game was that it removes one's inhibitions, so she became more "free" to pursue her more esoteric ideas.
The introduction of Criterion was fantastic for people who want to blind prog without having to manage an 8-man static. Yes, it requires some polishing, but, overall, it's the best thing that happened to raiding in Endwalker.
I also miss my Miasma 2! Cleric stance, as well as the various tank stances, were how the players got to experience optional difficulty back in the day. The devs could afford to hit tanks hard, and often, with the expectation that tank stance can soak a lot of that damage, at the cost of DPS. Yes, some tanks cried about it feeling bad when they have to tank stance (either due to their own lack of skill or a bad party), others even griefed their groups, but we got some of the most interesting post-prog (and sometimes mid-prog) optimisation opportunities the game has ever seen. I think progging on a support role is still quite fun if you do it blind, but it turns into a snooze fest as soon as you start reclearing or can plan ahead for what's coming. Sorry, but with those safety nets taken away, you're not getting your fun back, unless the devs decide to gatekeep a significant number of new raiders.
For me, the most disappointing aspect of this expansion is only indirectly SE's fault. The proliferation of third party tools has become ridiculous, to the point that even "big name" raiders blatantly use them, hidden behind window-only capture and virtual audio channels. I say indirectly because the shift from job to mechanics difficulty has made it trivial to automate the challenge out of the encounters. Yes, we had the people who had cactbot tell them what to press and where back in Stormblood, but at least that didn't directly impact those who wanted to raid without third party tools.
The job-mechanic difficulty trade-off also makes it trivial to practice mechanics in various "sims", because you don't need to press your buttons, care about aggro, dps, moving the boss etc. Some groups spend entire raid nights NOT playing the game, which is ridiculous. On a related note, I strongly dislike the shift towards making mechanics (almost) instantly wipe you because a single person made a mistake, especially when they do that late into the encounter. What does the dragon enrage in P6 DSR add to the experience, besides an artificial prog time extension? I don't even know if viewers enjoy watching streamers slog through P6 in DSR and P5 in TOP... Gone are the times when a mess-up tested the group's skill in recovering, and that's a real shame.
TOP mechanics design was so absurd that I told my group, mid prog, that we'll see record use of automarkers. Why? Because, while cool, most of the difficulty in theorycrafting and executing a mechanic was coming up with an appropriate priority system. I liked the tighter DPS checks, I even liked how fast paced some of the mechanics were, but the priority system vomit that fight requires is some of the least fun I've had while raiding, and it required the least creative problem solving too. Instead of learning from the mistake that was Titan jails, they just doubled down on it.
I agree that we got a lot of fun and interesting mechanics, but the raiding community is paying a significant price for them, to the point that a lot of new raiders aren't able to find groups that don't use third party tools and sims to progress new and old content.
This so much. I don’t want the game to go down a path of third party tools becoming mandatory. Yea people used them before it’s whatever but it wasn’t necessary and still isn’t for the most part. But the community as a whole will pay for it in the end.
I'm absolutely one of the players who'd always wanted to do blind raid progging and figuring out our own strats, but 8 people for Savage was just not feasible.
*Criterion*, however? Absolutely I've gotten a team together, and while it takes us a few weeks, so far we've been able to do every single one without any outside help. Alongside the fun of solo solving Variant, the V&C dungeons are my favourite new addition to the game in a very long time.
As somone who has all Alola Weapons its the best content in the game lowkey the community will come around on it as time goes on + it gets polished.
Yeah, they really need to dial it back next expansion, I know a ton of statics that just straight-up imploded because of P8S or TOP.
100% agree with all the very well written points you've made here. You absolutely hit the nail on all my feelings and thoughts on gameplay design across the expansions.
Yoshi-P did comment that they went overboard with boss hitboxes. I'm expecting that in Dawntrail they will become more realistic when boss size is considered.
There were only 2 bad things about EW:
1) Snapshots in P12S
2) That one MSQ quest in inner Labyrinthos where they had zero npc markers and the music was on loop
That's it
The 2nd point is true and real,
They did it in ShB too, but ShB's song had a much longer loop and was less annoying
I strongly agree, lols!!
I think your conclusion hit the hammer on a specific nail not a lot of people seem to be considering. The improvements people want in the game are not going to come in a flash of brilliance the moment 7.0 drops, change is going to come slowly. I worry a lot of folks don't have that kind of patience...
it's not really the issue of "it comes slow" it's that they're very hesitant to do anything crazy and take risks, this game is 10+ years old now, yet we're still asking for some basic QoL changes.
for example the reward structure in Criterion is the best example.
people INSTANTLY gave negative feedback to the 1st criterion's rewards, what did they do? 2nd criterion was the exact same, 3rd criterion was the exact same ... but you can do savage for the savage equivalent of your tome weapon, which btw you still need to do p11s to actually get.
Also that the savage variant is just a bad experience, 3 encounters no rez at all? 1 person messes up, there for back to fight 1 ... fun /s
it took them so long to finally add something to criterion, this can be done within a week, or at the very least, between criterion releases, since you gotta remember, criterion releases in the .5 of that major patch cycle.
so 6.2 releases, 2 months after criterion releases, rewards are bad and people openly expressed this.
then in 6.45 the 2nd criterion released, that's btw, 2 months to 6.3 then another 4 months to 6.4 then another 2 months to 6.45, so 8 months between 1st and 2nd criterion ... and the rewards are the exact same ... 8 months, that's not a matter of "just have patience" that's more an "why does it take so long for such a simple fix"
are they afraid of adding more gear progression paths? why? 2 months into a raid tier and most people have already cleared who really wanted it, but it can give the players still progging a chance to gear up a bit more.
the 3rd was probably the worst.
it came like 6 months AFTER the savage tier, anyone who cared had BiS already, so going through criterion (which had the same rewards) into criterion savage (which only offered the 665 tome upgrade) is just abysmal, people claiming otherwise is just delusional, let's not forget that i think 2 months after the 665 manderville weapon released, so EVERYONE can have their savage bis equivalent. (i'm not complaining about it being savage bis equivalent, just that it took them that long)
Also, let's pull Machinist into the mix as well.
in HW it was overpowered since you could bring 3 MCH and 1 DRG and be good, why bother with casters.
in SB, MCH was probably 1 of the worst jobs out there, needing to stand still for flamethrower or your dps is non existent, also just mediocre performance, it was so bad that MCH were excluded from PFs.
in SHB, MCH didn't get much better, but atleast playable and people didn't outright exclude it from PF.
in EW, after like 6-8 years of constant 10-20 potency buffs here and there, they finally made MCH hit a sweet spot, it only took them 6-8 years "just have patience LOL"
@@DarkDyllon "this can be done within a week" lol I should have stopped reading there, because that was the moment I knew you don't actually know anything about game development, the game development pipeline, or how systems impact other systems (or development structures). Your thing about MCH is the most telling (and the most hilarious), cause you literally became the meme and said "game balance isn't hard, just make it good 4head".
@@ValkyrieTiara Indeed, I have no experience in game dev, i'm a consumer that finds it ridicilous that people are able to make excuses for things like "well, the 1st 2 criterion rewards were just bad ... but atleast the 3rd is getting there!"
with that specific example I stated what, 8 months? how is that it takes them 8 months to actually add a reward to criterion, if it takes that long, that indicates to me that they don't actually work that much on improving said systems or are just plain incompetent.
But let's take MCH as well, I didn't become the "game balance isn't hard, just make it good 4Head" meme, how did it take them 6-8 years of constantly giving it 10-20 potency here and there to finally get it at a decent stage? why don't we get a PTS type of system, where WE can actually test the changes before THEY implement it, no new content, just the same content in the actual game, just with the balance changes, let it run for a week and adjust accordingly, see how fast things can be done.
But yeah, it's acceptable for a job that is PURE DPS to be basically bottom of the barrel for 6-8 years, it's not like we generally have to wait 4 months between balance patches and it's Prayge that they hit the right notes instead of completing missing like they tend to do a lot.
like for example GNB in EW, it was already top DPS and quite tanky compared to WAR and PLD, but let's give it more potency buffs, why not!
that was the literal definition of "throw shit against the wall and see what sticks"
or their constant PLD buffs, then you get the "developer notes" and they just spew nonsense that had 0 meaning, like when they were like "ok, we can't actually keep buffing PLD, we need to rework it" (rip good PLD) and then stated how these points were harming PLD, it wasn't that PLD is a bad job with a poorly designed rotation, it's that their precious 2 minute meta was actively fighting against a job that was actually unique and rewarded good play.
That's because the rate at which the FF14 devs implement fixes or changes is absolutely horrible. If they destroy the class you are playing, you'll be lucky if it only take 4 years for them to fix it. Four Years. That's a life time in game development. That's how long it took SE to develop Final Fantasy Rebirth. That's how long it takes the FF14 devs to fully develop entire expansion. If you are unlucky, like MCN or SMN, then then have fun waiting 6+ years. It took them 8+ years to finally fix the MSQ Roulette into something bearable. No matter how big or small the change is, you are looking at a minimum of 1 year before they actually do it. The only fixes they implement fast are bugs fixes, and thank God. Imagine if we had to wait years for those too.
@@taigaaisaka6305 yeah, whenever I bring up how slow they are with fixing things for most things I always get met with "you don't know how game development works!"
but as a consumer, I can expect things to be fixed in less time.
probably a good example is Criterion and it's rewards, the 1st criterion had lackluster rewards, they played way too safe like usual. (EW had 0 risks)
so knowing that the 2nd criterion could be around 6-8 months later, you'd think that the rewards could also be improved right? ... nope, the rewards were the same, just useless garbage.
then for the 3rd criterion the rewards are ... THE SAME ... but wait, now you gotta finish Criterion Savage to get the upgrade material to upgrade your 660 tome weapon to 665 (i think it was 660)
but in order to get that, you need to first either complete P10S for that tomestone item, or complete 7 weeks of P12 normal.
then clear P11S for the upgrade material to your tomestone weapon (also 900 tomes)
AND then you need to finish criterion savage (which is a misserable experience as it is)
but also what they did to PLD in EW, the job played so smoothly in SHB and EW (pre 6.3)
but of course, in EW they introduced the 2 minute meta and PLD simply didn't fit into it, so every 4 months they get a small potency buff to pray that it brings PLD back in line (it didn't)
then after 12 months, they just rework the job and for me, ruin the flow of the job.
They could honestly get this out so much quicker if they had a PTS for balance fixes, just open a PTS where we can travel to (or make a character on) nothing gets saved while we're there, we got every job at BiS gear (or shops are simply free so we can gear ourselves) and we can do existing content on there, maybe not even the current raid tier unless it's been out for 1 major patch (4 months) would fix a lot of issues.
I honestly think the team sometimes has no idea what they want to do, like for example with ultimate raids, I don't believe for a second that the dev team actually beaten ToP, would be cool if they actually release a clear video after world first has concluded, to show us how we solved it vs how they solved it.
but the fact that ToP not had 1 bug that was extremely obvious the moment it happened, it had a 2nd and even 3rd bug that were just so stupidly obvious if they did multiple pulls.
the 1st bug was when the 3rd phase starts and final Omega just hits someone instantly, tanks can't establish agro fast enough, even with provoke.
the 2nd bug was the issue where shields weren't applying and outright missing on people (it straight up said it missed) since the buff limit (good job SE, apparently they barely used raid buffs/shields on the 1 ultimate that actually had an extremely strict DPS check)
and the 3rd was that if the MT would be last in 1 of the dynamis pass thingies in Phase 5, the auto attack would snapshot around 0.1 or 0.2 before it falls off, but the number appears AFTER the debuff falls off (you could tank swap, but it's so stupid)
On job design, I enjoy Monk, Red Mage, and Black Mage a lot because they always feel like I'm doing something that's unique to that job. My issue with some jobs is they have cool burst windows and very boring fillers where they don't really feel like their job. I don 't feel like a ninja when I'm just sitting there pressing my 123 waiting for the next 1m window. I love the mudras, they're a fun idea, I should be using them constantly and in different ways. Just let us use what we have more often rather than hording everything for burst windows and that alone would make some jobs a lot more fun.
So many job rotations are extremely rigid and cannot deal with losing a gcd well at all. Reaper stands out here where its resource generation is so painfully slow that missing even one gcd means having to push back your burst. I feel like boss hitboxes were made so insanely huge to compensate for this kind of thing. Asphodelos, I think hit box sizes were actually pretty reasonable. P1S and P2S had big hitboxes, which was fine given that they're the first two turns, but then P3S and P4S made them smaller and made losing gcds much more likely throughout their mechanics. Its complete supposition on my part, but I think they saw how some jobs struggled more than others in those fights, and it was just much easier to make hitboxes bigger than overhaul those jobs to make it so they can deal with losing gcds easier. Even Hydaelyn and Barbariccia had completely reasonable hitboxes, but after that, every hitbox was the size of a small country, so I have to imagine it was a response to something.
I'd just like to say that if you hit every gcd on reaper you will have 70 and 100 meter meaning you can miss two gcds before the burst and still hit all three enshrouds. And that's before the use of gluttony in the burst between enshrouds
@@megaman2055 Ah, my mistake. Its been a minute since I played it, but it was ultimately for this reason that I found myself not enjoying it.
To be fair the job still feels really slow until burst
I did o4s this morning and neo ExDeaths hitbox is only all the way at the side. I thought if this was EW you'd be able to hit him from the center of the arena lol
As a pvp player, the answer is yes. Don't even need to think about it.
Crystalline Conflict was very much a great addition, as well as the job reworks, big agree
Hell no job reworks suck a lot, streamlined, easy to do, predictable burst, you no longer try to build up resources and pool them up to time them correctly to pick up kills, you just wait for cooldowns and press everything on CD and it's at the worst in frontlines with the constant nerfs to damage and buffs to received damage which makes making an impact as a lone player almost impossible while favoring the DRK +3 goons premade that can solo any alliance,
CC is really held back by the input lag imo. Also didn’t help that you couldn’t Que with friends and the fact that couldn’t chat either sucked. The jobs and the idea behind it were neat.
We don’t talk about frontlines lol.
@@chocolatman4767nope. For CC at least it’s Easy to learn hard to master. Especially with the meta of LB synergy. Knowing to use your stun when their purify timer goes off, etc. so much goes into it. It’s not just spam your cooldowns big dam go brrr, once your cooldowns are done you’re put in the ground for 10 seconds.
The fact you can't queue up with your friends is the biggest reason why I don't like pvp.
Thanks a lot, i feel this type of content is very much missing in the 14 scene, great work :]
that means a lot, thank you so much!
I definitely agree with how this type of content isn't that common. I think it's because the game is relatively formulaic in terms of content. If you raided in shadowbringers like me, endwalker raids felt very much the same, with incremental improvements and polish. Lack of change and lack of surprise means not much to comment on. Ultimate raids do have variation, but they are so complex and experienced by so few that it's hard for a sizable audience to relate.
I'm a Megacasual who started in Endwalker - and a consistently 400 ping Monk main. I have had SO much damn fun playing this game, and I'm extremely excited for Dawntrail.
Endwalker was literally my beginning, and I'm really happy I joined when I did.
EDIT: Some people are doubting my ping - I'm playing on NA servers from South Africa. I'm not kidding.
400 ping? Are you sure?
@@chilosopher4856 Absolutely. I play from South Africa on NA servers, and I consulted a ping checker before typing this reply.
@@chilosopher4856 it sure is high but definitely possible, I'm from Brazil and I have an average of 200ms on NA and 320ms on JP, maybe she's even far away.
10/10 fake comments right there.
@@AzureRoxe South African playing on NA. I'm not exaggerating.
Loving the content! Keep up the amazing work!! Endwalker was the first time I played an expac on launch and it was such an amazing time!
Thank you so much for the kind words!
Great video! I appreciate that you spent some time talking about the Extreme trials we got, given that most raiding focused discussions stop at Savage and Ultimate (and maybe Criterion). Hopefully DT gives us more of those in line with Barbie & Golbez and less like Endsinger and Rubicante.
Wanted to add something about 2m raid buffs. In my opinion, I don't think its really benefitted newer players. If anything, I think it makes things rougher for them. If you were late on your raid buffs or big buttons in Shadowbringers, it wasn't immensely detrimental as your damage during individual buffs wasn't particularly explosive as you might have one or two buffs out at the most. Now in Endwalker, if you just forget to use your buff because you're still relatively new and haven't built up that muscle memory yet, its massively more detrimental.
It feels designed under the assumption that every player hits their buttons constantly and will never, ever lose track of their rotation during a fight, and that just doesn't feel realistic. Even experienced players find it annoying that if they drop a gcd, there's simply no recovering from it on some jobs. Also don't really think it made jobs easier to balance. Changing damage profiles without really changing job design made things really wacky. Dark Knight suddenly does absurd damage because of how it can stockpile so much for burst windows while paladin languished for much of the expansion. It just feels bad for everyone. Devs shoehorned jobs into this 2m loop, which actually CAUSED balance problems, its extremely punishing to new players, while being boring and simplistic to veterans.
Man i'm gonna miss doing ultimates... Unfortunately my life is moving in a direction where I wont have time to do them but I will be cheering you guys on during the world race!
They'll still be there, whenever you get a little bit of free time!
One thing I notice when looking back is that p3s fire rain, or barbaraccia's constant small damage instances made it interesting to heal because you had to constantly pay attention to party hp. It's such a contrast to recent ultimate design where you just take 1 huge instance of damage on all 8 people and nothing else for 20 seconds. Maybe it's time for more small hits that is hard to avoid / scripted but don't necessarily give vuln ups? Also the fact that whm gets relegated to glare mage status outside early weeks should be looked at (compared to double shield comp for example)... make medica 2 /cure 3 feel really rewarding to press please! My opinion is that kera and soil should not have regen attached to it at all, that would be step 1
This will be longwinded, but I hope it expresses my perspective as a person who only ever downloaded 1.0 because it had two "grimoire classes" that were tied together like twins. It was cool to me , and is still why I come back to play each expansion. Their complexity keeps me interested. With Shadowbringers, however, we saw both jobs move in the opposite direction ; towards each being extremely simple to the point of spamming one button between weaves. Scholar has all but lost their complex decision making and freedom to use their tools creatively due to the removal of options like Bane, Miasma, or Shadowflare. Each came with the cost of not using their equivalents in Energy Drain or Sacred Soil, as well as massive MP costs. Summoner lost what felt like half of the identity it had in Bio and Miasma.
Even if the pet/dot identity was a strange combination, it was such a beloved job by so many of us BECAUSE it was so specific in how to play. Now, my main in SCH has just become me spamming Broil with maybe one or two AoE heals (Recitation + Indomitability is all I need usually). The fights just arent complex enough to warrant our jobs becoming diet versions of their original identity.
We NEED nuance between job difficulty like the Arcanists vs. White Mage, as an example. Stormblood did everything right in terms of taking every job and giving each exceptionally unique tools. If you wanted a simple time to focus on mechanics, you could play Bard or Red Mage to give yourself tons of freedom to move about as needed. Healers in Shadowbringers, and again in Endwalker, were gutted. We have the exact same kit on all 4 healers with minor additions in their capstone skills.
if a job has one optimal choice, then the other choices don't matter.
@ntolman Success is only satisfying when you navigate a failure state.
Making the right choice from five different choices, is more interesting than pressing the singular option the player is given.
@@Rill_1 I'd rather not get kicked from or unable to complete content because I didn't read a guide. There is no way to tell if options presented to you are good or not just by looking.
You are spot on about the “just add a stack or spread” to everything. I feel like the biggest example of this is the most recent criterion dungeon. That entire dungeon is plagued with stacks or spreads. The first boss has a stack or spread on *every* mechanic! It’s really good too far imo and glad I’m not alone in feeling this way.
I want tank pulls and positioning to come back like twin ucob as an example sensibly placing the boss around the arena or make it important again pulling centre and facing north gets stale after awhile, I know p9s had pull north for lc2 but we could have more varied boss positioning in savage
I very much agree, I didn't touch super deeply on tanks this video for some reason, but I think that moment to moment tank responsibilities like boss facing and positioning really need to come back in a big way in Dawntrail
@@RinBananaGiven they said they're shifting from skyscraper-sized stationary hitboxes, that seems pretty likely. Wouldn't be surprised if at least one Arcadion Savage boss had to be positioned right for a mechanic or two.
Heck, I'd love to see a way to incorporate markers into normal content into which a tank HAS to move a boss so as to prevent some negative effect, just to get tanks into the habit of thinking about where they are placing the boss during fights.
Proto Carbuncle was sorts like that and it was pretty fun fight imo, need more like that
@@misanthropiclusion Agree. P5S was one of my favourite fights to tank.
As an AST main currently suffering the 5 stages of grief and scrambling to clear as many ultis before my job is taken away from me, thanks for the anciety spike
RIP PLD, still miss ya buddy
I really hope the AST rework bears fruit
Speaking of job design I'd argue jobs are actually more different than people think. It's the fight design that is the issue. The jobs do have unique strengths and weaknesses but because most fights are just 100% uptime single target fights there's no time for a lot of those quirks to shine. You see it a little bit in ultimate but even there the differences aren't allowed to stand out.
Nah. While I agree and you’re right, all the uptime fights don’t help, fundamentally current jobs 100% play very much similar compared to their previous counterparts and don’t feel different all aside from aesthetic. BLM/MNK and AST being the exceptions.
@@carbonide1290 That's just because jobs burst on 2 minutes. How they access their burst isn't actually that similar. It just doesn't matter when the fights are 100% uptime single target fights.
For example some jobs can cleave as part of their burst without losing single target damage while some jobs have to choose between single target and aoe. Some jobs can pool resources while others can not. There are differences they just don't matter because there's very rarely situations where those differences matter.
But almost every job pools just to burst on their 1 min and 2 min. The way they pool their gauge doesn’t matter. On SAM I’m just getting enough kenki/stickers, on RPR I’m just pooling blood gauge, on DRG I’m just building up my 2 eyes. Same shit different job.
@@carbonide1290 Because the fight design doesn't require anything else than doing a striking dummy rotation.
RDM can in theory pool 100/100 for a big burst, something the other casters can't do, but there's nothing in the fight design that requires it. That's my point.
@@thetruekakokun865 Nah, the tanks rotations are still way too similar at the core. Sure, different tanks can shine in different scenarios, but that doesn't change the fact that all the tanks still spam 1-2-3 during downtime to generate resources and spend them during their burst. It is very annoying how none of the tanks have at least one different combo branch or ability to manage during downtime. GNB is the only tank with a different type of burst window and resource management, the rest are smash one button, smash one button at a range, smash one button while spamming oGCDs. Of course, the tanks are different when it comes to optimizing, but they still share the same basic style.
I don't mean to disregard what you said, giving jobs a chance to shine to their fullest could do a lot for them and some of the DPS still remain different. However, the homogenization regarding the tanks specifically is still incredibly obvious.
Alright, this is a good video! I agree on all points. But I will add something sour. Everything that is discussed is about "hardcore" raiding from EX and onward to ultimate. While doing all of that for me was a super exciting investment of time, it was only one type of activity to do.
Outside of raiding with my FC static/suffering in PF - the game felt empty and boring.
Yes, I am talking about Duty Finder stuff and what if offered in Endwalker. Very little, it did. *Dungeons* dipped even further into cookie cutter territory _(outside of blasting start with Tower of Zot and some particular bosses)_ , where you don't have to rub even two braincell to reach the end.
*Trials* were...okay, but the ridiculous Ilvl sync trivilized them very quickly _(Remember that SE had to hardcap Ilvl for the Endsinger trial so new players even had the opportunity to watch the whole spectacle without boss tumbling immediately lmao)_
*Raids* - same problem with Ilvl. Nothing hurts you and all interesting mechanics are in Savage version. We can't even have a weaker version of them, sad.
*Alliance raids* - I firmly remember Yoshi saying that those would have the challenge around Ivalice raids. _Well... that was a f-ing lie, isn't it?_ It is like Crystal Tower but with twice as much length. Skipping Nald'Thal scales all the time nowadays is just insulting. Very undertuned, uninspired mechanics and everything so overly telegraphed for player convenience. What a fine mess...
I don't want hard difficulty in "story mode" duties, I want it to have more mechanics, more interesting mechanics, more theatrical stuff, more interactions! Since job balance doesn't matter there, why not have some fun?
-And for the love of Hydaelyn I want to heal in Duty Finder. When leveling roulette is the most appealing one to me as a healer instead of lvl 90 or Expert- - -something is terribly wrong-
Great video!!! You are so right about limit cut, and well pretty much everything!I really hope the dev team finds this video
I hope that they move into more extreme with the buff interactions: no more temp party buffs on cd, you either have static buff (like dance partner or bard songs active all the time) or single person buffs (like Astro's cards, DRG's Dragon Sight) to remove this 2min meta entirely. If everyone is using party buffs at the same time might as well have no one use them since it's so rigid anyway. More consistent dmg across the fight would also give devs better understanding for fights design.
W video again Rinon, hope to meet you in PF in endwalker again, always a pleasure to play with you
Rinon been making amazing videos this year, big grats
That's really kind of you, thank you!
Kind of off topic, but since you brought up wanting door bosses drop something I feel it's close enough.
I wish the Savage mounts were tired to the first-clear achievement instead of a drop, so that when a party clears for the first time, static or PUG, everyone gets a reward then and there. Winning lots in pugs, or (totally understandable) priority lotting in statics, I just think the mount could serve as a good first-clear reward for everyone.
Also would let static groups take a cool photo after clear with everyone on their new mount.
I quite like this idea actually, yeah
I'd rather you just be able to buy the mount with books. Plenty of people out there that don't care about earning BiS gear and would just stop raiding after getting the mount on week 1, which would hurt PF participation.
P8S was easily the most consistently fun savage to prog and farm, with the best theme music, mix of mechanics and rewards. Don't bothering thinking otherwise; you won't find a better one.
This was a great video! I'd love to see more, especially on Criteron. As someone who gave up healing halfway through Endwalker having done it from Stormblood, there's a lot to love about Criteron healing, especially in savage. The damage profile and outgoing damage feels great for a single healer, and the single pull + timed nature of the whole dungeon means you even have cooldown considerations that go beyond a single boss. If every boss felt like the first boss of Aloalo savage, I'd definitely go back to healing over DPS.
New video lets GOOOO. I love hearing these kinds of opinions, they give me a good idea about how others feel about the game in a constructive way :)
Barbara my beloved. God that was a fun EX.
barb gud
wait a second, Mr Saleh Fire Emblem plays ff14? hell yeah
One thing I wish they'd add is an Orchestrion Roll for some of the unique music in Ultimates as an achievement reward. I've stepped into Ultimate learning a bit but since I'm a huge sucker for good music and collecting them, I'd be even MORE motivated to clear a fight knowing I could get that as a guaranteed reward for me!
Unfortunately, those orchestrions are already on the store, so it's sadly not going to happen :( And if not at the store, then it's item codes from various cd's from their merch store
I think out of the Mmos I know this one has the best reason to make certain raids dungeons etc more suited to specific jobs. Given how easy it is to swap and level jobs and how each job mostly only has one playstyle.
one change I would like to see is a rework to direct hit. As a tank main, its just a default materia meld when i can't meld crit. DH also creates more rng on top of rng, which leads to too much crit variance. Since you mentioned positionals, a neat rework would make DH reward hitting your positionals correctly and rewards that skill you acquired from practice. If someone hasn't gotten their positionals down, they can meld det so they can still contribute while they learn and eventually change over DH after mastering positionals (the balance would be if DH and det were equal amount, DH would have higher dps when positionals were hit.).
I know it causes a problem now for physical range and casters since DH would be melee only, but having a brain storming session can help find a solution.
Also buff tenacity
Rinon hitting with banger videos as always!
I think it's great that you clearly state your stance on several things but are able to clearly explain why instead of just saying "Things are too ez now".
I've always considered myself much more casual in the raiding scene so I never really thought about the intricacies of job design/job balance as much since I don't rly see myself as having a good say in any of those things. The first time I really thought abt it was during p8s. I'm glad that your group was able to clear the check week 1 but my team at the time was definitely made up of the 3-5 jobs that were considered not optimal (WAR, RDM (me), MCH) and we suffered for it. While the idea of having to adapt and switch jobs based on fight does sound interesting, in the end, some of the more optimal jobs aren't really enjoyed by everybody and I wouldn't super agree with having people play jobs they don't enjoy in order to clear the fight (xeno with gnb on p8s for eg). That probably is more of a personal issue and is easily fixed as more new jobs come out for each archetype down the road but just my two cents!
Super love your thoughts on healing in particular! While I still think Scholar is fun to play, healing as a whole has definitely become a little less interesting and motivating to do. Excited to see whether Dawntrail will be able to bring that spark back for the healer mains but if all else fails, I know chain strategem got my back.
Also I prefer having job difficulty over fight difficulty, as that mastering your job and learning it's nuances was something you could bring to every fight and benefit from. Now it's so easy to master jobs with little nuance that the fight is what you have to continuely keep learning which gets exhausting and the player progression feels as stale as the gear progression. Sure the top of the difficulty ladder is still interesting but not as rewarding, it's solve a puzzle and do the dance with little player expression. I loathed Endwalkers 2min meta, body checks and lack of job identity. Plus fight design is just so stagnant and to make it difficult they have to artificially inflated difficulty with body checks and strict placement and the 2min burst adds artificially job difficulty of you die or get unsynced from the burst windows as you're just fucked the rest of the run, where before in StB you could make up for most of the loss.
They should have just made jobs easy when you start leveling and as you get closer to max it gets more complicated while slowly teaching you how to play and help the more casual players improve naturally instead of what we have now.... Where it's always easy to play a job.
I hope dawntrail does something better with job design and burst windows and STOP GIVING MY GNB MORE CARTRIDGES, I swear the new move they used in the benchmark is a "continuation" for double down and will require 2 cartridges out of the new 4 max.... Bleh.
I want more tank mitigation like the 30s personals where it rewards you with timing them, but even fucking up still has benefit. And yes more struggles between tanks taking damage besides when we are told to swap.
Give reactive abilities like counters to tanks when they have tanks stance on and turn them into gcd when it's off so you can DPS properly as a MT or OT. Man there's so many tiny things they could do to dramatically improve tanking alone.
Like what if you count counter damage like DRKs TBN on every 30s personal on any tank incentivising them all to use it on the MT to max damage
I've read all of this and I like a lot of what you've said, but I just need to comment inb4 4 GNB carts
I think the bigger complaint with P8S door was dog first vs snake first. The DPS check was much easier on the latter since a 2 min window didn't occur during manifold flames. Combining that with the low (r-)DPS jobs of the time like PLD, WAR, MCH, and RDM was pretty toxic and Yoshi-P apologized for the state of job balance for that reason. The tank role was pretty bad for a good two weeks.
P3S was pretty solid though aside from the color scheme. The two adds mechanics were unique (Darkened Fire and Sunbirds) and they came pretty quickly, so I'm not sure what you mean by slow / repetitive pacing.
This. Doing PF first and second week and seeing groups wipe on purpose if we saw the less advantageous pattern first is a symptom of a design issue. It wasn't the dps check by itself that was the problem, but the fact that the tight check exposed/highlighted a conflict between the 2-minute meta and that particular kind of fight design.
Also agree on p3s.
As always, my brother, truly a banger video.
banger comment
@@RinBanana banger reply
The video is amazing, but I gotta ask: what boots are you wearing on PLD? 😅
I am pretty sure it's y'shtola's heavensward boots from the mog station set
I agree with the statement that there should be more tank sweat mechs for savage like how you mentioned hephaistos. In his 2nd phase he hits like a fkin howitzer and kills any single soaking tank. I LOVE this concept since it forces the tanks to be near each other at the perfect times while using optimal mits to a) survive and b) prepare for the upcoming tbs.
Moreover there need to be more mechs that are IRRESPECTIVE OF JOB ROLE. I know I'm about to get told to shut up but lets be real, if you have mechs that are designed for dedicated role comp they can be easy for some, harder for others but this limits the risk factor for tanks and, arguably, healers. Tanks don't take much dmg anymore nor do we have very tight execution checks in savage so the addition of role specific mechs becomes lackluster. There have been very few moments where non-role specific mechs are prominent and have me thinking 'wth do I do' and none are more apparent than High Concept and Natural Allignment.
My question: what's the one way to kill tanks without amping dmg? A failed execution requirement. I cannot explain how much I love the checks on NA 1/2 and HC 1/2. If you don't pair correctly, you die. If you don't proxy or prio correctly, you die. If you don't pay attention to your buff and position accordingly, guess what? You wipe! Tanks finally have SOME responsibility of their own and the party's lives other than aggroing a boss and mitigating.
In summary, I think if SE took a page out of e4s and utilised a little p8s then we could see the nigh perfect savage for all roles. Only issue: pf would hate this / struggle which is the only consideration that could deter from this choice.
I agree with a lot of what you say here. I'm hopeful and nervous about the AST and DRG changes coming in DT. AST was my favourite healer coming into EW but I just didn't gel with it. Perhaps I'm just still mad they took Nocturnal Sect away! P8S was definitely my favourite fight this expansion! I loved the mechanics and it was the first fight I did on all roles. More like this please!
Barbaricia really was so good. It was my first step above normal mode and even though I've skipped a lot of the raiding for various reasons, I'm very much paying attention to the raiding scene to try chase the same feeling of getting punched in the face until I learn to heal and dodge again.
When i DPS i actually like BRD, BLM and MNK. I like to be able to do whatever i want as i play and these classes feel unique and that I can change up decisions based on the flow of the fight.
Can I take a moment to say that I adore the way you talk about high end content Ronin, both the highs and lows that Endwalker has gone through. I’m excited to have Dawntrail as my first major expansion, but I can’t deny I have my bias towards Endwalker for being my first for a number of things in this game, from raiding to job design. That’s not anything objective, so I don’t think my opinion caries a great deal of weight, but the good that we did get was really good. Thank you for this discussion and here’s to the future in Dawntrail.
I enjoyed it and was puzzled by the complaints. On the forums people are already complaining about Dawntrail (!).
I have found the savage raids in Endwalker to be absolutely miserable. The dps checks have all felt way too tight for average players. I don't mean average people who clear savage, but an average player overall. It took weeks to help clear p2s with a friend in PF because we needed an absolutely 0 mistake run to beat the check. 2 months of prog on P8S never saw past phase 1. 3 weeks for a perfect run of P10S for a clear.
Someone with my same experience, we join the wrong parties I guess. I never was able to get thru 4 or 8 door boss till echo, 8 was people lieing about getting to animals 2 when no one knows snake flex or how to phinax in 4 when the PF said they were mechanics ahead. I also would not join phase 2 parties cause I never got to there. Even making my own parties i'd get tells saying stop asking for a carry when I just wanted other players I knew that can do it and not have to teach a fight I have been doing for weeks and failing. I am not perfect player and mess up sometimes after a few hours of wiping to the same stuff i'd shut off my brain and stop caring and make mistakes.
I'm so glad finally someone pointed out why the DPS check in P8S isn't an issue! Having an optimized group is only really a big deal for week 1 groups, and I feel that finding an optimal comp is part of the fun for many week 1 groups! Besides, you can definitely play machinist as long as your group is skilled enough to get there! I find it funny that people want harder content but can't even handle a difficult dps check
1sec in and I got the answer to the question in the title. Thanks, I can close it now. I like efficient videos.
ur welcome
okay so im a casual player.
i don't do extremes savages ultimates.
planning to do criterion.
i recently reached story to be continued played all side trials raids alliance raids having started arr last june.
as a scholar main who is currently leveling other jobs one us astrologian.
and i enjoy it ALOT.
its very busy in terms of what needs to be preemptively put up to deal with reactive healing moments
atm im at 71 and successfully healed holminster switch.
some things id personally change thus far about the job is for one:
stellar explosions giant dominance. have it grant damage reduction prior to giant and perhaps add some mechanic to speed up the timer (perhaps % damage taken by the entire party triggers giant dominance)
as well as granting something akin to clarifying draw to minor arcana as it would allow queen to be a more consistent raid wide reactive tool for astro.
grant tank / melee cards a damage reduction so you think more about giving it to your tank for a tank buster or the damage to your melee ontop of the dmg increase.
similarly healing potency buff to the range/support cards.
i like the idea behind essential dignity being the single target oh hecc ability of astro amd having multiple charges is nice but i feel as tho more would be interesting to have.
collective unconcious is also a great ability i believe that could be reworked slightly to become a sort of. passage of arms as paladin has (my favorite ability ngl)
same as it is now but grants a burst heal ontop of the regen dispersed to all in the area.
let's say a 800 potency heal if two people 650 for 500 for 4 350 for 8 (honestly idk balancing im just spitballin)
and astrodyne. let it be activateable the moment you have one sticker and build the other two different ones as you get them as usual but a same one just doesn't register. as well as tipping sticker rng in the astros favour more.
these are some things id change/add and maybe ill have more ideas as i level more but i figured that's where i stand now
I sorta like the idea that some Jobs are for progression and some are for "I understand the fight, let's tear it up". But that said, that's not balance because some Jobs will be pushed to the wayside for the stuff that benefits the team more, so a lot of PFs might push for specific Jobs (even if they don't know what they're doing at that level)
If there are Healer checks, I'd imagine there'd be more focus on healing, less DPS, more Mana conservation etc, so it might mean the boss health isn't as high to compensate. Which I'm for, but it's also why all four Healers need to be similar to an extent because everything has to be viable regardless of how unique they are
So there can't be more than aesthetic uniqueneness or playstyle identity because the devs don't want folks cheesing their fights like people tend to do if something becomes too OP, like early EW Monk with Brotherhood or early EW Warrior having too much sustain 'and' DPS. And the drawback of that is that if you have to do more for similar results, people will go with their playstyle but eventually settle for easier classes outside of players that "want a challenge" or genuinely love their class. Which is great, makes everything viable, but-
But they also have some classes bring specific buffs (like Brotherhood), which feeds into their kit naturally, makes them viable, Monk, Dancer etc, and they try to balance it out with technicalities like Monk being Melee so theoretically they might have to manage downtime/can't get in, or Dancer being the lowest DPS even with buffs but they're ranged so toey have the best mobility. But if they can buff everybody else and you have people on easy to play/easy to do damage classes, it gums things up and people are always like "we need a Monk for prog, we need a Dancer"
14's way better than other MMOs at balancing, but it still happens, and the homogenizing and paring down is just devs trying to work around it so I get the weird tug of war going on. I wish that there was a clearcut answer but ultimately it'll come down to players hanging on playstyle and results. I honestly do think they should push identity, push role importance; if you're a healer you should be healing, worrying about mana conservation as part of the fight "puzzle" and not just a Glare turret until 'maybe' after you're rewarded with gear for clearing the fight
Even maybe tune up the fight difficulty 'but' also tune up alternate gearing methods like tomestones to compensate if folks can't cut it with their base gear that... they probably spent millions of gil on buying/making and pentamelding- okay like it's a complex situation, maybe make Criterion give you extra tokens you get weekly for tome gear, I dunno I DUNNO, it's tough man, I do feel for the devs lol
True. Optimisation shouldn't be solely based on damage, but pushing the potential of all the roles to its maximum. Healers needing to heal and shield a lot, tanks being careful about boss position and aggro, dps going all in as usual. That requires the fights to utilise this thought more and we have some examples of that from time to time like p10s.
banger video my liege
Shiva was the last savage without a door boss and I'm so glad we have had doors ever since. I don't always play with a static so sometimes I have to prog in PF and that takes a VERY long time when there's no checkpoint in the fight.
Second half of Shiva took so long to get to and then we would wipe and have to go through all that content again before we could prog the mechanic again. It just makes prog less tedious imo so I'm eternally grateful for a door boss when they make the encounters as long as they do.
Weak
19:45 We well and truly saw the resurgence of doorbosses in... Which expansion?
just pretend i said it right!
"Eden Titan, which I think is arguably the closest FFXIV ever come to creating a perfect savage fight..."
We are seated. Say it louder.
I think variant and criterion dungeons are some of the best additions in EW. Variant dungeons are super cool with the different routes, and the secret routes are unique and fun to do. Criterion is something I'm super excited to prog in 7.0 since I don't really have the time to do savage anymore. I hope they keep up criterion as a viable upgrade path.
My main thing is that, as a healer, it felt great to prog savage this expansion… at least most of the time. The increase in mechanics that are “do a puzzle and die if you fail… ok now here’s a body check and if someone just died you wipe. What? No, we don’t give you time to rez and there’s no way of keeping them alive if they solve the puzzle, you idiot.”
Great video, I agree with the stuff about filler phases in fights. It just ends up making fights feel boring when they only have hard mechanics far into the fight. Ironically 12s was a more fun pf experience than p11s, even though it was vastly harder, because so much of p11s is just not engaging. Love the ideas for tanks also, that and more boss positioning would be super fun for dawntrail to have.
I had a very similar experience with 11 vs 12 - I just didn't enjoy 11 very much due to how repetitive it felt
What if P10S was the third turn of the tier? The execution of that fight is so much more demanding than P11S I'm convinced the order of certain events in Pandemonium story must have been changed at the eleventh hour and those two fights had to be swapped with only their ilv values adjusted but the overall complexity remaining the same.
I am one of those that was really happy with the paladin changes. It had to be done. If they wanted the 2 minute burst then changing it to be in line was the only thing they could have done. Sure I think we're hoping they move away from the standardization but paladin was straight up spreadsheet jank 6.0-6.3 down to having to press FoF half way through a gcd instead of toward the beginning, it was silly.
Is it bad that I think encounters should be kinda similar in wow's design but not so similar... like lots of damage coming out in general rather than damage just being controlled at certain points.... wait you were just talking about this as I typed this? XD I'm a newer player but i can definitely see it coming from WoW in the past
I'd want to see Savage and Ultimate dialed back a bit going forwards. The arms race between the developers and hardcore raiders isn't one the devs can reasonably win without being clever about it, so better to throw the raiders a curveball they have to adjust for, rather than relying on debuff vomit.
I'd also like to see parsing culture thrown in the trash where it belongs, now that it's understood how much of it is riddled with cheaters, and that SE is going out of their way to discourage it on a raid design level.
I'd like to also see more Savage fights that borrow from UWU, where someone screwing up won't explode the party, but it WILL make things spicy and potentially require on-the-fly adjusting from other members.
Straight to the point I like it!
I felt so dissappointed in my own growth and progression as a healer in this expansion, I didn't really improve and clear anything before everything got overgeared, and I didn't really get a chance to experience this expansions Ultimates because i missed the boat on Asphodelos and Abyssos completely due to not finding a static, and thus couldn't get unlocks, let alone the BiS pieces I would need to even set foot in DRU or TOP, having only experienced the third tier and being generally unhappy during Anabeseios. I spent, far, far too long just progging on Levinstrike, let alone the nightmare that was p10s, it didn't help matters that i felt the need to completely change my healing job just to even feel like i could keep up (having to switch to Sage from astro because it was too hard to preform on astro, and even my Sage performance is generally not good but....i kept downright embarassing myself when i was playing the card job.) Maybe it had more to do witht he fact that I should've just kept with it, not took as many hiatuses for several patches, and just kept at things till i found a group that would have me rather than rely on the toxicity of PF, but... int he end I couldn't do it, I couldn't clear Anabaseios Savage, at least not before Echo, I wanted to, I wanted to see Ultimates, but I knew i had to clear a savage tier and have good logs before seeing the cool Ultimate fights was even a possibility for me.... Which really dissappoints me, because people seemed to be having so much fun in DRU and TOP...
I just hope things don't spiral out of control and get stuck in another rut in dawntrail. I hope i can actually learn from my mistakes in Pandaemonium, and actually cleanly make it through a savage tier in Dawntrail so i might get to set foot in an Ultimate in a way where i wouldn't just get laughed out.
Hey man, you can do it. Just remember to have fun as your first priority. I'm sorry you had experiences where you felt embarrassed in pfinder, just know that it doesn't define you. I think it's great that you want to give hard content a try. Keep at it!!
Ping should definitely NOT be a factor to job design. That's honestly really really bad feedback. If you make animation based on ping for weaving and double weaving then you have to lock the character and you'll get a DRG situation.
I don’t think it’s bad feedback whatsoever, because I can give an instant fix to the issue I specifically mentioned: let monk have charges of The Forbidden Chakra, and then their overcap due to latency and sks is workable. There are a lot of solutions to issues, that don’t require complete overhauls
Even tho I started with Endwalker. As a Scholar main Ive been slowly understanding why people complain about healing (this video actually helped me understand a lot. And while I’ll most likely never fully understand just because I haven’t been playing the game since earlier expansions, I still agree with them and would like SE to do more with healers and have encounters make me work a lot more.
I need to tell you that I'm still very sprout-like for ultimate fights. I am getting better in UWU fights, but I still need to take my first step into UCOB or any other ultimate fight. I'm a little unease with those other ultimates. Thanks for the video, though.
Square would need to break its complete bossdesign philosophy to change something.
They built all their content on the same kind of design when talking raiding: a "dance" around boss mechanics to kill it.
On the one hand, this is pretty neat as it is really fun learning the steps, but it also heavily limits to what they actually can do in the long run.
Similar with dungeons, basically all of the newer ones are the same: 1-3 trash packs > boss > 1-3 trashpacks > boss 1-3 trashpacks > boss
In Endwalker they also put the classes on the same chopping block, homogenizing their mechanics so that they (almost) all play rather similar. Of course, they still all have their own flavour, but most of them certainly do not necessary feel "unique" anymore (at least in my opinion).
While the game certainly is still enjoyable, I really wish that they start breaking out of their mold a little bit and make raids, dungeons and classes more unique and less "the same thing again" in the future.
my only gripe with current savage is the tome cap 450 tomes is ridiculous with 21 jobs i really hope they increase it
dawntrail final savage gonna give us 2 door bosses XD
I'm probably a rare personality when it comes to this opinion, but... the 2 minute meta is a BLESSING for the game.
As a Partyfinder only player, this is the first time ever, where if people are able to keep their rotation somehow going, Partyfinder groups can compete in damage output with a well organized static. Yes Statics will always be ahead, but the gap has never been smaller. AND THAT IS A GOOD THING.
I do not want to play a game where I always know "If I want my job to perform optimally, I need to join a static where we coordinate our buff windows in a spreadsheet" or even worse have certain jobs be massivly worse in certain team comps. The game should be designed with PF as priority nr.1 and statics second. TOP is a great raid, but it's very clear it was designed for groups with comunication in mind. After doing it in a static and then later in PF, it was apperent that lots of the mechanics were not designed around having no one in the raid take extra responsibility marking people or then get punished by having to do MUCH harder strats (sigma congaline YIKES), just because of it.
Back to the 2min meta: I started in ShB 5.4 and barely had the honour of progging the last Eden raidtier. The differences in comp even in ShB (where they were already simplified) were drastic, plus certain jobs had clear disadvantages. This heavily punished random PF groups or people who one-trick a job and look for a spot in a static where a different jobs is prefered.
But then it begs the question: Is it worth to sacrifice some level of high end optimization for a general level of equality? The answer is ABSOLUTLY yes.
There is no way ever, we would have got raids like TOP and DSR with the job complexity of StB on top of it. The reason we got such incredibly difficult fights is that jobs are simple enough that people can put their focus on the raidmechanics instead. If they for some reason decide to go back to StB complexity, we have to also go back to the UCOB mechanical difficulty.
And please if you comment, spare me with "statics are supposed to be supported more because it's an MMO!!11". No. Statics should be formed to raid with your friends, not to execute a prog more efficiently. That can be a benefit, but shouldn't be something that is a given.
I loved 6.0, and I loved post-EW for what it set up. I am convinced we're going back to the 13th, and that Durante, Jullus and Zero will play a major part.
As far as content, it's somewhere in the middle. Stormblood and Shadowbringers have it beat for sheer non-msq content. If Endwalker had a Bozja/Eureka alternative, we might not even be having this conversation. It's ahead of ARR & Heavensward for me, though (post-HW was better, story-wise, but Gordias literally killed statics, and Pandaemonium was actually pretty sweet, plus Myths of the Realm was miles better than Shadows of Mhach, and I'm a big fan of that alliance raid series).
All EW needed was a better relic grind and a Bozja/Eureka alternative and it would have been on par with SB and SHB. Even without it, EW was an expansion I loved, and it did enough to get me excited for Dawntrail. It was a worthy cap to a 10 year plotline.
Now I'm ready for the next one.🙂
"All EW needed was a better relic grind and a Bozja/Eureka alternative and it would have been on par with SB and SHB. Even without it, EW was an expansion I loved, and it did enough to get me excited for Dawntrail. It was a worthy cap to a 10 year plotline. " ew was focused o nthe 80% causal playerbase so they didnt have that kind of midcore content you need to remember it not just the minority of player who deserve post msq content island and tome relics are perfect and true casual content sadly the midcore didnt get exploration zone or age long grind but they got crit dungs and deep dung .
In terms of deep dungeons, as a soloist I think Eureka Orthos is the best deep dungeon they have released to date. It has the most even difficulty curve as you rise through the floors for both solo and party play, and due to how the mobs function, it is in my opinion the hardest one for a group to clear, while being the easiest one to solo. I love endwalker for the content it brought, the post MSQ was a bit dumb in terms of story, though.
WHM badly needs a rework because it's just too damn simple and the combat skills just feel bad to use.
you could've summaries the entire intro into ''Like & Subscribe'' :D
Nice Video by the way, dude when I watched the recent video made by Perfect Balance that literally made me not wanna play MNK that shit requires double master degrees and PHD and work at NASA to be able to play it a such level.
I'm fully aware of the 1% of players that love and would die for spreadsheeting and planning and making jobs difficult to squeeze the best of them but imo simplifying the jobs is better for the game overall, this expansion has the highest PF participation which is good means that people aren't struggling a lot with mechanics cause their jobs are simple to play which give them more room to focus on the fight instead of their bars.
There's one thing I don't want SE to do is to focus on the 1% of players like blizzard does with WoW, designing fights and classes for the 1% of players at the very top is never a good call for any game. at least FFXIV trials and Savage aren't very difficult and they are accessible to the vast majority of people and now even ultimates became accessible to a lot of people with technology.
I think what they should do for hitboxes and positional requirements is make it dynamic per mechanic
That's a kind of interesting idea honestly
I maintain the removal of Kaiten wasn't a matter of ANYTHING but it being a pointless skill in Endwalker. There were so many Kenki changes in Endwalker so that Kaiten became pointless. The problem isn't Kaiten, the problem is a whole list of issues. Singling out Kaiten as the problem really is forest for the trees. Like you say, people tend to over-simplify stuff with "Limit Cut." Simplifying SAM's issue to Kaiten misses the point, especially when you try to then go into deep depth for why other jobs are good or bad. Giving Kaiten back doesn't fix anything, it just gives you back the last strand you were hanging onto.
Monk: Harder than ever. I stand by this as someone who hated old Monk and comparatively love new Monk.
2min meta: Vastly over stated. As you yourself said, rarely did swapping jobs per encounter pan out. And the idea that you had to "plan" using your stuff? Rarely did this ever pan out too. DRG with it's 1 min, 90s, 2min, and 3min windows? You just hit stuff on CD. Just hit it on CD, and maybe ONE fight per expansion would actually make you shift stuff around. The 2min meta did not shift jobs to being easier, if anything it's harder for many. You have to hit buttons more often, so APM is up near across the board. Bard's songs feel wonky to properly time now I hear many say. Etc. The skills are what make the jobs feel different, not the timers.
Dragoon, perfect job. One note: Make Stardiver not clip GCD.
P7S I actually say in my guide "this is the part where the boss will finally start trying to kill you" for when you hit the final 3 mechanics. Also, P11S is a better E11S. P8S is mid even without any over-tuned issue. Fight me.
I wish I had as commanding an understanding of things as you guys do. I focus mostly on healers and dabble in PLD/WAR and SMN/RDM. To this day, I'm not sure what Kaiten had going for it other than some people think it was amazing, some think it was pointless, and some just liked the animation - and that's not a small thing. Liking aeshtetics is important (glam is the true end-game for a reason, and it's more than just armor looks). I'm not even a person that likes DPSing on healers as a thing (I do it because it's the way the game works, but I preferred older MMOs where healer focus was on MP management and smart use of abilities), but I still miss twirly staff Aero 3's cast animation.
I do agree with you the 2 min meta makes things harder, because if your party isn't doing it, damage tanks. They made it easier to line things up...then balanced things around people lining them up. It reminds me of Xenosaga 2 if you ever played that game? They put in that super high damage break and boost system so you could break the enemy's defenses then blow charge after charge of boost gauge to give your characters free turns to unload massive damage while the enemy was in a vulnerable state. It was a cool idea for a system...but then they gave the bosses ridiculously high HP so that if you WEREN'T using the break and boost system, even routine enemy encounters took 5-10 minutes to deal with. They made a system where lining it up could be rewarding, but then made it REQUIRED. And I don't just mean "to clear faster", a few boss encounters (like Sellers) REQUIRED you to use it or they'd power up an ultimate and wipe your party.
As much as people insist the 2 min meta was "for casuals", as a semi-casual midcore (self-identified?), I contend that's BS. It was made for the upper half of the midcore. Casuals don't align buffs, don't care or even understand them, and don't do content that requires them. And the lower end of midcore doesn't think too much about it and does little content that requires it (I do Extremes; EW was the first expansion I have ever done an at-level Savage, and only P1S, P2S, and P5S). It's that upper half of midcore, those that do Savages and try to do ultimates, that know AND care about lining up buffs, but couldn't get that to work well in ShB, but also want to bring the Jobs they feel like instead of be forced to change (high end hardcore players fluidly swap Jobs as needed, and could easily figure out how to line up buffs, so the change wasn't made for them, either). It's a total skapegoat to blame the change on "casuals", imo.
I think the issue with the 2 min meta is more that it amplifies OTHER STUFF that is kind of broken. Crit feeding into itself so hard that it is the >>> all stat. Crits under buffs vs not critting under buffs (RNG) making a large difference in damage or being the difference between a clear and enrage if the party was on a razor margin of clearing or not. How Job gauges and resources can feel similar when used on an identical cadence. How punishing it is to lose your resources if you get KOed - this would be a far lesser problem without the 2 min meta, but with it, we see when a person dies just before burst how huge of an impact that makes. What happens when encounters force people to hold burst or when someone dies during burst or when an encounter has a lot of mechanics during burst.
I'm not entirely sure these are the 2 min meta ITSELF being the problem so much as it's shining a spotlight on several OTHER problems and people just are misdiagnosing it as "the 2 min meta is a problem" instead of "these other things are problems".
But...what do I know? I'm just a hypercasual bad or...you know, something that means I don't know what I'm talking about. : )
Kaiten gets the press, but its actually "kenki got gutted and is pretty redundant now". Personally dislike spamming shinten more than what we had with Kaiten, but they both had the same problem. Had some discussions that have often lead to people simply saying they should remove the mechanic entirely and make something more interesting.
@@yanipheonu I can agree with that. Remove Kenki as a mechanic and put something else in. We're already way past the point of "SMN mains disliking new SMN" for SAM anyway.
Shinten spam just feels so bad. Nothing I hate more on jobs than pressing a button for the sake of it.
Is there even a reason "every Job must have a Job gauge of some kind"? I can't even imagine it really makes tuning easier since some are more or less pointless. WHM's Lily gauge could just be replaced with a shared 3 charge system (shared charge systems are absolutely a thing at this point, as are shared CDs). I doubt it's necessary for Misery. Same with PLD. Replace Shelltron/Intervention with a 2 charge 25 sec charge time shared system and get rid of the gauge (Cover has its own CD and it's pointless for it to even cost gauge as it is, honestly). Aetherpact could just be a toggle at this point. If it's "too powerful" (lol?), just cut the potency by 25% or so and it wouldn't be. It was originally supposed to be a replacement for Embrace macros anyway, and when Fey Blessing was removed from the Faerie Gauge, the gauge itself became basically pointless. This would also get rid of the weirdness of using Dissipation and using AF abilities before Eos comes back not giving you gauge (another clunky mechanic that shouldn't exist, either).
Ninki is another one that I don't like which feels largely stupid to have. Gauges like that realistically can just be replaced with a shared CD on the abilities (Bhavacakra and Hellfrog Medium) with a CD matching how long it would take to generate 50 gauge. The 2 min gauge spenders costing gauge is kind of stupid to me anyway. "Here's this ability. You need to pool game for it and it takes priority, but otherwise, it's just a button you press on CD." "So why even have that button?" (At least Bunshin has a little bit of an interesting secondary action with Phantom Kamatachi, but a lot of the 2 min gauge spender abilities...don't.)
I feel like there are some gauges that really just shouldn't exist or don't need to exist and are just preventing something actually interesting from being added to the Job kit in its place. In SB, they just decided EVERY Job needed a gauge, even...if it didn't make sense to have one and the gauge brought nothing to the table. Ninki in SB did not, it just made NIN busier in an unnecessarily clunky way and ignored the actual fun parts of the Job. Like instead of Ninki, give me a shorter CD on Mudras. I actually LIKE pressing Mudras, unlike Bhava, which is just...kinda there.
If it means we can get more fights like p5 and p10 and especially Barb, and more mechanic design like some of the shit they’ve pulled in criterions so far, I’d be fine to see positionals go
It just forces melee to always be at the back somewhere and sure you can raise the argument of “playing better” for more damage but we got true north for a reason
"We get to witness the miracle of birth" I can't xD
Xeno switching from WAR to GNB I feel like was *the* reason everyone was so pressed about job comp. With clean execution you could clear with most comps even before the nerf and before WAR buffs.
31:20 why must you DO me like that 😭
Healing is the one role I rly enjoy in the game and AST the only healer I enjoy enough to not fall asleep in fights like P9S, after what EW did to SMN and PLD it's impossible not to worry that the one job I enjoy won't exist anymore...
Rewards aside, Criterion is genuinely the best content in the whole game outside of DSR. Savage Rokkon and Aloalo are peak design that gives tanks and healers exactly what they've been clamouring for in raids, whether it's demands for good positioning/movement or insane damage pressure in multiple forms, spot healing and such (the squid's DoT at the start of Aloalo made my Sage sweat hard, and less than perfect mitigation plans was just death for any tank).
Criterion was an absolutely brilliant addition, big agree
If it were up to me, only you and mrhappy will be on mediatour. Keep up the great content!
for raiding and pvp, i'd say yes
regarding the turns(P7S) where they feel the need to teach us mechanics before they get to complicated, i wish they allowed them self the option to have trash mobs that introduces those mechanics before hand and allow the actual boss to be tighter.
This is definitely one viable option yeah. I also think that it's okay to teach us a concept in normal mode and expect players to remember it going into Savage
18:00 I want Phys Ranged jobs to have positionals to offset the ranged tax and make gameplay more interesting
I just want interject, leg graze, etc... debuffs to be useful. P range used to be essential in coils because of kiting and these debunks. I'd like to see this brought back
as an OT main, I loved Agdistis, but I get why other people (espacially healers lol) wouldn't
The sad thing about the 2 minute meta is the fact that one phrase sums up the entire thing in a nutshell and makes it a pretty bad choice at least in its current state: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. i have seen so many party finders this entire expansion where even with the fact every single raid buff is 2 minutes they still press it whenever they feel like and with how strong 2 minutes are right now, you are actively losing so much damage and risk enraging if you are doing anything but this final savage tier. i personally dont mind the 2 minute meta but i want the extreme weight behind it to be spread to actual gameplay. as it stands right now if you die in any fight that doesnt has a body check to instantly wipe your party, if you rez them in a window and they lose the head empty debuff you will kill the fight so long as you burst alright. there is no flow of the fight outside of select jobs where it feels like you are actually doing any sort of damage outside of your 2 minute windows
finally a video on EW that isn't "this is the worst thing i have burnout"
I like the game a lot! I occasionally critisize or disagree with certain decisions, but I feel like burnout is usually more a personal issue than an issue on the game's part
I think door bosses could be toyed with by giving players the option to do both the door and the room bosses in one go for extra loot.
This made me think - I would absolutely love to see achievements added for doing something like this, sounds fun
The Miasma II thing is interesting. Yes it's a choice, technically. But realistically, once you spreadsheet out every fight, there is a right answer that you are implicitly telling players they have to know to play the game optimally. Functionally, this just means that people look up the right answer on the Balance or Icy Veins or w/e and it becomes a method of gatekeeping. What I'm saying is, it's not really a choice. There is a correct answer and you should do that correct thing once the fight is solved (which takes like a week after release).
We still have 'choices' like this in the game. For example in DSR on DRK, you have the 'option' of using Salted Earth on your first GCD, which gives you an extra use in the phase... but it's also just correct to do that because you get an extra use. In TOP on WAR, you can press IR during sigma in downtime to get an extra PR... but again that's just optimal and it's something fight-specific you figure out. I like that kind of stuff, but I see it as being functionally the same as the Miasma II comparison.
As a casual player who doesnt do anything higher than EX primals, I loved EW. We got some REALLY good content, but it wasnt especially repeatable. I dont care that I didnt play Endwalker EVERY single day for two years.
Very yes
6:10 this is so ridiculously frustrating, too. MCH still doesn't feel great even with the adjustments made to it on "good" ping (as reported by the log in screen). I will still ghost mudras on NIN even on "good" ping. I love playing both of these jobs, but only in casual content where it's fine for me to have things go poorly. I also pretend DRK and DRG don't exist lmfao
P12S was the first time I started agreeing with people when they said that Door Bosses had run its course, I like the idea but after a while they get old very quick, specially when their follow up fight isnt that good. P12S could be the door boss alone and it would be probably my favorite non ultimate fight of the game
I like door bosses conceptually, yeah, I just wish that wasn't all we get all the time now. Variety is the spice of life and all that
My take is that the expect that everyone has to do damage hurts healers too. Like how using anything other than an ogcd heal is a damage loss (except for whm I guess with the lillies) and how the expectation is that you stand there and cast Broil 80% of the fight (I play scholar that's why I use that example) and how casting succor is now just a "prog button"
While yes it can be fun to plan out this CD and ogcd over a fight can get rewarding, but pressing the same button 100s of times for damage doesn't feel good
But that is just my take, other than that I enjoy healing in FF14
I'm still miffed about Kaiten being deleted because there was never any "management" going on with Kenki anyway, you Kaiten'd every Iajutsu and the combo to light up your stickers would always produce enough Kenki to do said Kaiten. Deleting it didn't even change anything about the rotation but robbed the job of a skill that looked and felt great to use.
as causal player it was the first truly casual freindly and casual focused expantion and i fear dawntrail will fail to be that like stormblood and shadowbringers before them .
I recently rejoined FFXIV, but I quit the game back in 6.2 (Nov. 2022) because I was frustrated with the Job design. Former healer main that started in 4.05. Got so mad that healers got nothing in EW.
Played DRK in 5.0, but also received nothing in EW, so I played PLD, but I didn’t like the rework. Now I’m just playing whatever sticks.
I’m hoping there’s at least one healer job that will appeal to me, but I’m not sure if Yoshi-P or the devs really know what they are doing with Healers.
healers got a whole new class in EW...That being said YoshiP said he has made the game too easy. I am hoping we see less passive healing by non healing classes FE: healer dying at 80% health and the group still clears the boss. I go many dungeons without healing as a scholar relying 100% on my fairie. So right now it is hard to add healing abilities if we don't need to heal.
@@ovted129
Tried SGE. Didn’t like it. It’s not the DPS healer job that was promised. Suffers the same issues all healers have: bloated healing abilities it doesn’t need, GCD healing discouraged and 1 button DPS spam.
The dev team knows exactly what they're doing with healers: Giving all their utility to WAR. Give everything to WAR. Bald man must be sated to stop screaming.
I am a healer main too, and I've quit since like 6.3 or so(Whichever one had Rubicante) because having my entire role invalidated and ignored isn't worth playing through.
And to the guy saying healers got a whole new job, no they didn't. Sage is just Scholar with a different coat of paint, the jobs are almost 1:1. Man I sure do wish someone in the dev team was forced to main healers for even one freaking patch cycle.
I think some people use the word "bad" abit to much. When I think a bad expansion/game I think something that is actively unpleasant to play wich to me is not state the game has reached yet at least post ARR. Thats not to say that there are not things that could be improved or specific parts that are straight up bad but I think the game as a whole has overall been good through all the expansions so far.
My opinion is based entirely on normal content as I didn't have time for savage this xpac, but I found the pandemonium raids up until the last set to be rather bland, Phoenix and Carbuncle aside the first 8 just didn't live up to Eden.