While Missiles Fly, Flights Land: How Israel’s Airport Stays Open | WSJ
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
- Despite being less than 40 miles from the front lines of Israel’s war with Hamas fighters in Gaza, Ben Gurion Airport remains open. Even though civil airspaces above war zones like Ukraine often remain closed during fighting, Israel’s civil airspace continues to receive commercial air traffic.
WSJ’s George Downs speaks with experts about the risks and explores the tactics Israel is deploying to continue to allow planes to take off and land in the country.
Chapters:
0:00 Israel’s main international airport remains open
1:08 Flight paths have been changed
2:47 Many international carriers aren’t flying to Tel Aviv
3:53 Aircraft Misidentification and MH17
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I flew out of Tel Aviv yesterday. It was quiet but was still quite scary.
The flight headed north along the coast to the Haifa region as stated in the in the video.
The plane took off and gained altitude VERY quickly.
The mood there must be pretty interesting I wonder if Israeli are uniting or playing blame game… probably bit of both.
@@dustintacohands1107 From what I have gathered from news and friends in Israel they're all setting the other stuff aside to conduct the war as a united nation.
@@dustintacohands1107 we do both, but we are mainly united. We don’t forget that we have reasons to believe certain people help escalate the situation to where it is, but Israel as united as it could be, and that claim gained altitude very quickly to be out of range for any potential rocket that might’ve been fired during takeoff.
@@Nimrodo85 Will Iran be foolish enough to join what is your opinion? I believe they will honestly something tells me they got a nuke… that can’t be right though that would be too crazy.
On el al? El Al is the only commercial airline to equip its planes with missile defense systems to protect its planes against surface-to-air missiles. I’d be flying with them if I didn’t support BDS.
El Al is the only commercial airline to equip its planes with missile defense systems to protect its planes against surface-to-air missiles. crazy that it’s needed. Their civilian planes have the ability to take down missiles…
Boeing 747 now equipped with chaff and flares
All 3 Israeli airlines have this system
they have the ability to confuse IR (heat seeking) missiles - not to take them down
El Al airliners are basically as equipped for defense as fighter aircraft, minus the offensive weapons. I suppose it makes sense, as basically all El Al pilots are ex Air Force
Wrong. It's widely known that the U.S. carrier FedEx has missile defensive systems.
MH17 is a stark reminder that any of you getting on an airplane that flies anywhere remotely near a warzone need to decide for yourself whether it's safe to fly. Don't rely on profit-driven companies to make those decisions for you.
While it may be true that a radar contact of a commercial jet looks different to that of a UAV or a fighter jet, it's also true that commercial jets have no way to identify they are being tracked or fired upon by any SAM or AAM missile system.
@@baldwintheanchoritefew airlines have a missile detection and avoidance feature United is one on its international planes. FedEx also has it
Really good point.
@@bluecrayon007 ty i actually never knew this.
@@bluecrayon007 they experimented with it but due to ITAR regulations they dropped the idea I believe.
Well he sais it. They don‘t know it differently. If the Israelis would close their airspace whenever there is a threat, Ben Gurion would be closed half the year. Yet I hope they don’t underestimate the danger.
The Israeli airlines and their (mostly ex-military) pilots will take the risk, similar to how MEA kept flying during the Lebanese civil war. Most passengers on those aircraft also understand the risk. But for the likes of BA or Lufthansa it's a stupid risk to take. Just hand them tickets to El Al flights if the passengers feel OK with the risk.
Those are unguided missiles, it’s realistically impossible for it to hit a plane approaching, it’s probably more likely to be hit by a lightning strike.
But here’s the thing, what if the terrorists get guided missiles? It would be too late in that case but yeah, I guess they just have to live with that risk otherwise it would never be open
One thing that is not mentioned here is the planes that do fly to Israel or are Israel flagged are equipped with ICM (Infrared Counter Mesures). This helps prevent the plane from being hit as every missile Israel uses is IR guided, while Hamas is more GPS Ground guided or Point and shoot style. If you look on Flight Radar all of the flights are Israel based and are equipped with this system.
would it be possible for Hamas & Hezbollah to get heat seekers?
I thought it was only El Al that employs laser countermeasures as far as i’m aware
@@daveselbow9128 Would be possible, consider there are external support.
@@justinyap3990 It does look like all El Al planes are equipped with C-MUSIC (Commercial - Multi-Spectral Infrared Countermeasures). I would imagine they would still have ICM onboard in a lower quantity, but I am not sure.
That is so fuckinf wrong every important sam of Israel is radar guided. Obviously they also have IR guided systems but every ground based missile system is radar guided (at least the ones with significant range)
Does anyone still believe that Hamas "wouldn't " target a civilian airline?
They totally would and then twist it into being Israel's fault. All hamas does is play mind games at the cost of lives.
They would celebrate it and laugh and then deny it was intentional. That is their nature.
I don’t think it’s a matter of if they will target a civilian aircraft, but a matter of when…
I’m assuming (hoping?) he meant they don’t have the ability to target an aircraft so wouldn’t try.
They would hit it, celebrate it & then cry victim when something happened to them
Don’t forget that all El Al airplanes have flares, which is pretty cool imo but so crazy to think of
They no longer have the flare system; it’s been replaced by a system that uses a laser beam to attempt to redirect a middle.
They do? I guess you do learn something new everyday
@@LuisRodriguez-nv8dv the little bump on the underbelly of an el al aircraft is their anti missile system. Every EL AL aircraft has the anti missile devices and they are the only civilian carrier to have anti aircraft missile defence systems. there's a couple of videos on UA-cam about it.
Or so they claim and tell us but never used in its history.
@@dospalmascb Man I wonder how many times they've actually had to use it.
My fiance is flying tomorrow out of ben gurion. I am praying for her safety
She’ll be fine mate if there’s any doubt for a threat, there will be no takeoff, but rest assure even though we minimize flights she is in good hands
@@Nimrodo85 Lord bless you in your struggle.
Hamas mostly targeted the fake rich Jews in rich concerts, the daughters and sons of powerful Zionists figures for hostage negotiation.
As long as your wife isn't a Zionists too, she shouldn't be targeted.
She might not make it
Fiji Airways landed in Israel, picked up its pax and headed right back amidst the conflict.
Lol, 0:13 Ryanair be like i'm out ain't gonna be part of the drama....😂
imagine seeing the videos of what happened and thinking it’s unlikely for hamas to target civilian aircraft
the fact that theyre making missile launches to gaza seem normal and mundane is truly terrifying
Israel aside, listening to the host brought back what happened in 2014 to Malaysian flight MH-17, there was always that ache deep down, like a needle in the flesh. 9 years after, no entity has yet to be prosecuted nor taken action. That tragedy will never leave the memory of Malaysians in this generation. #MH-17 #WheresJustice
Blame Malaysia Airlines...they chose to fly over a conflict zone where multiple aircraft have been shot down over.
That tragedy will especially never leave the minds of Dutch people, as we lost over a few hundred of our compatriots at once. For many, it was akin to a Dutch 9/11.
Ask Zelensky. His predecessors shot it down
@@eduarddv00 It was proven to be DPR russians.
@@sussybakagaming2613 nope
All my prayers for peace 🙏🏻
Flew in and out this week. We heard the sirens for two days at different times throughout the day and went into a shelter (not underground but rather a building made out of a very sturdy material, I think cast iron or something similar, under the instructions of my host.) For a second I began to mentally prepare myself for the possibility of dying at 28. Thankfully my mother was there with me. I tell you, anytime we hear a loud sound we become alert thinking it’s bomb. I cannot imagine for people who live under those conditions all the time. My admiration and respect to the people of Israel 🇮🇱
I admire Palestinians. They put up with Nazi Israelis for 70 years
Israel has forced Palestinians to live like this for decades at this point...
And what of the people of Palestine? The ones who actually live under threat of bombing every day?
Why were you there?
What about the people that Israel have been committing War Crimes against, for decades? Palestine is not Hamas, there isn't only one side to have empathy for.
A bit weird that you'd say Hamas wouldn't target a civilian airliner. They totally would - is that even a question? Certainly they haven't shied away from brutalizing any other group of civilians.
They lack the capability, not the willpower.
Well, they somehow learned to use wind gliders. Not sure how Isreal which has eyes throughout the area, did not notice. You can't glide without atleast knowing how to use it. And they flew perfectly to the target.
EXACTLY. the only thing keeping Ben Gurion Airport still open is the fact that Israel has great great defense systems and that Hsmas is probably not capable of doing so. But we must remember, if given the chance Hamas will shoot the first civil plane it can! That is the bitter truth and their is no denying that.
If Hamas can overwhelm the Israeli dome system, how can it not shoot 100s of missiles per minute at strategic targets?
Here in Singapore 1 of our (ex?) diplomats was probably nervously seeing the more pro-Gaza sentiment in neighbouring Malaysia, whose gov't also acknowledged that it has a working relationship with Hamas (maybe because they classify them as independence fighters like the IRA & Tamil Tigers (& insurgents in southern Thailand?) instead of as a terrorist organisation), & then went on to fret whether Hamas would one day be able to fire missiles/rockets from Malaysia into Singapore (& planes flying in/out of it)
Prayers for peace 🙏
Surely this can't be compared to Ukrain-Russia conflict. The enemy (ie. Hamas) only has primitive weapons like unguided rockets, rather than anti-air missles?
The primary conflict is with Hamas but there have been exchanges of fire with Hezbollah across the northern border with Lebanon. Hezbollah has a variety of antiair missiles from Russia and Iran.
It's a joke. If Hamaz got half of what Russia has, Israel would have to close airspace. There's no comparison there.
You’re right, the main concern is probably Hezbollah
Hamas actually does have anti air missiles, its just that ben gurion is too far for them to reach the planes.
MH 17 flew at 35000 feet or more. In Tel Aviv they are coming in to land. Big difference.
Israel keeps their airspace open for the same reason we didn't black out our east coast cities during WW II even with Nazi subs right offshore. Keeping the economy running was deemed more important to the country than any safety that could have been gained by blackouts.
That was like 100 years ago and the US was fighting countries with established militaries…this is very different…one of the richest countries in the world backed by all of the rich countries in the world fighting a poor blockaded group of civilians…that’s why they can still operate commercial flights
@@fawaz7810 Today a commercial jetliner can be shot down by man-portable missiles carried by young boys. It's worse now than then.
As a software engineer, I’m terrified when he said he trusted anything on his screen.
Thank you for letting us know that you are software engineer. Everyone now feels better knowing you are a nerd.
"I also use Arch btw"
You shouldn't be trusting pilots and ATC then in general
@@plishplash well most ATC also have windows that they can look out of to visually confirm. Unless it's the London City Airport we're talking about which just has a tall tower with cameras on top and the ATC is located in a separate building entirely cuz of space constraints... You should look it up it's actually quite fascinating how it works, Uses AR on the camera view to show where the planes should be according to the radar and other stuff.
The same situation as in the Ukraine a few years ago (way before the war with the MH11).
And in a few days - when a plane is shot down - everyone says how stupid they were to leave planes flying...
The second guy just said the Osprey guy doesn't know what he is talking about....and I agree
That’s impressive.
It also wondered me when I checked their busy air space amidst the war few days ago
This brings a whole new perspective to how temporary life is.
"Captain! We're landing in the middle of a firefight!" *sigh* "Again?"
Amazing story👍
6:00 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. Consider all possibilities, nothing is impossible.
My teacher always told me "If you have 0.000001 percent of things happening you still got a chance"😅
Your teacher was Lloyd Christmas?
Same teacher that teaches him Israel belongs to Allah.
Laughing.... people take on worse odds than that to try to win the lottery!
Does anyone take into consideration the Israeli Air Force! Some of the most tested, proved Pilots fly F-35 II and F-16 fighter jets with American bombers and other aircraft at the ready. These pilots have experience in the air! Not just flight time fight time! Trying to or attempting to take this war to the air will never happen. With that force ruling the air, coupled with defense systems in commercial aircraft I see no reason the airport can not be open!
Hamas is a ground game and any rpg at commercial flights will just bring more shells at this point. Lebanon, Iran, that's the cards on the table here. It's difficult to know which group, or country will toss in their ante to join the game! Fire power favors Israel.
Have you seen the Israeli airport?
We had kids from Louisville, KY in Israel for their fall break trip. The headline broke my heart. A mother was interviewed, and shown hugging her daughter when she returned two days ago. The headline said something like, “the child I am welcoming back from Israel, is not the child I sent two weeks ago”…these poor children have seen so much and been through so much, and I’m just happy they’re back home safely. But what’s heartbreaking is that so many children and adults couldn’t return back to their homes safely, due to terrorist. Hamas has to be stopped.
Yeah poor kids I wonder what the Palestinian kids went through the last 70 years
And Hamas will be stopped at all cost!!
@@ihavetowait90daystochangem74they became terrorists
@@ihavetowait90daystochangem74tanyakan pada teroris Palestina dan jihad islam
@@ihavetowait90daystochangem74Ask Palestinians and Hamas why they didn't accept peace efforts done by Israel. There are 22 arab states and all Israel want is for them to be recognized as a Jewish state even willing to share that with Palestinians but they declined every peace efforts. Israel even gave Egypt a piece of land in exchange for peace.
Stop victimhood.
43 years in aviation. I’m not overly concerned. I’ve been routed around Midwest tornadoes 4 times this last summer and thundershowers so many times I’ve lost count. I’m a lot more concerned about weather then a Hamas rocked fired 60 miles away. Be glad your not flying for south Chicago!!!
I was there October 9 morning it was scary but things returned to normal quickly
What I got from the video
Israel: "Trust me bro"
flying into TLV has always had the added complexity of missiles and missile defense. I think that many operators have accepted that risk and we have become used to it. IMHO, it's a clear case of normalization of deviance as coined by Professor Diane Vaughn and we will all be unjustifiably shocked when things go wrong and we stumble through the wreckage of another downed airliner.... no airliner has any business in that airspace for the time being
No to war.
Please save the Children.
Mr. Osprey solutions, you're forgetting ALL el al airplanes have ICM (infrared counter measures) mounted just on the bottom of the plane behind the wings and can basically throw off the missiles trajectory.
That Ryan Air was like: Nope
Incredibly efficient people!
As an air traffic controller it seems very stupid. I would compare these airlines to continue flying rn to driving a car while looking at you’re car while driving. Huge risk
it´s understandable both positions.
Let’s hope they walk their talk
Its also a statement to display that Israeli civil society cannot be disrupted by Hezbollah or Hamas. Israel is surrounded and once groups know there is a weakness to Israel's international network they will pounce on it.
Saying a tragic possibility is impossible sounds like famous last words.
SPOUSE: Honey! There's an *_amazing_* sale on flights to Israel...we should go on a 2nd honeymoon!!
ME: *_Nope!_*
It's amazing the adaptability from the Israeli CAA 👏👏
You can be the test subject for the 1.5-minutes processing time.
Well they have been given more uS support and funding than every other ally put together
For some reason......
Terror should not cut off Israel from the world. The terrorists will loose anyways. They have already lost their humanity.
I stand with Israel unconditionally 🇮🇱❤️
Israel will always win! Hamasaki and the other terrorists organizations have just started showing their true face.
The risk seems reasonable to keep them open for now. Pilots just need to be listening for any avoidance direction from ATC.
Rerouting to northern route bring them closer to Hezboullah 😮
Must be scary
I wouldn't want to be in an airliner there when Hezbollah launches a few thousands rockets.
It is however true that it's safe from Hamas. ATC warns pilots, and airliners can fly faster than a Qassam rocket.
Airliner can’t fly faster than a rocket. Those rockets have top speed of 2000km/h
@@Whyoakdbi you are wrong, the most advanced SAM missles top out at around 1500km/h. Hamas do not have top of the line SAM missles. Also Qassam rockets are VERY inaccurate, making hitting a moving target nearly impossible.
What type of rockets have qassam got
4:10 I really like how chill west bank is, plane can be safely rerouted near their border
Jordan doesn't want any part of this and they are ready to help their people there. I understand they've been very careful in their movements.
@@sid2112what you say is true. Jordan are chill, however west bank is not jordan
@@bendoherty3129 If you ask me Israel should be from Beirut to Damascus in the north and Ryad to Cairo in the south and as far east a Tehran. I'm tired of it.
In such troubled times, regardless what the assurances given, airlines should not take the risk to fly to Tel Aviv. A small incident & the consequences can be devastating. Best to take the land crossing through Jordan & fly out of Amman.
The most important crossing is closed, the southern one you'd have to travel close to Gaza and the nothern one has seen teargas used by Jordan to keep people out. People claiming that flying is unsure don't know anything about how the war works or how Iron Dome functions.
No one and most importantly people that are not affected in particular are not asked to “decide” what to do for other. What is the cost of not flying for some are unimaginable, even if there is risk of knockdown
As diligent as they may be, a sensible person would just avoid the area.
“Miss Aisles.”😅
You forgot to mention that El Al pilots are total badasses with Israel Air Force pilot training.
Well there must be a way to run
5p p5 thanks again for the update as I am a former here.
Strelkin shot down MH17 with his crew. Not an accident by any stretch.
اللهم ارنا عجائب قدرتك في تصر فلسطين
For sure pilot will do an unrestricted climb procedure on take off.
War is War - Business is Business!
rember its the one who have power that will tell the stories do your resarch
Flew into TLV as 744 Capt during 2014 rocket attacks and have to say Israelis had their operation well definded
Where Islam starts, humanity ends.
Something special
There are 5 main risks that the airlines have to deal with:
1) Israeli air defense missiles mistakenly going after a civilian aircraft - extremely low probability
2) Aircraft having radio contact issues (jamming) and being shot down intentionally as threats - very low probability
3) Fueled aircraft on the ground getting hit by a rocket or missile - pretty low probability
4) Aircraft targeted by long-range Syrian or Hizballah Russian/Chinese anti-air missiles - possible, but who knows where this is going
5) Targeted by Hamas/ISIS agents using MANPADS in the West Bank on approach/take-off - most likely scenario.
People who think they can just avoid the area and stay safe are delusional. Islam wants to control the ENTIRE world and they ARE coming after YOU after they get done with Israel.
The Northern route of planes bring it closer to Hezboullah. If they fire, this whole airport will be closed.
@@hus390 It will be closed for a short time but will reopen quickly when the territory once known as Lebanon becomes a radioactive wasteland.
more people need to understand that the Arabs that want to wipe out all Jews also want to wipe out all Western civilization.
Oh don't worry for the rest of the world. The islams will never get done with Israel. Israel is strong and can face any threat and win against it.
You can't forcibly occupy someone's land and live in peace!
Then the airport is a good refuge area?
I'm pretty sure Haifa has a beach, but in the map you show it's quiet far from it...
All thanks to American carriers Gerard Ford who is keeping telaviv airport open, but American
Carriers can’t apply such things in Black Sea
I don't think they should be emphasizing how they are monitoring the situation very closely after the failure last weekend.
Does something like Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 have to happen again? The airspace should be closed, evacuations should be carried out with military aircraft, because these usually have missile defence systems.
Israel airport has 1.5 minute to deal with crises whereas during 9/11, NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector had 9 minutes before the first plane hit the North Tower and they still couldn't do anything. Why are you putting a positive light on Israel's airport management???????
Israeli f 16, f15 and 35 are already in the air, mostly of the time, consequently the reaction time will be shorter
Sure let's focus on the airport..
Bless these ppl. securing Israel and keeping the country functioning. That is why the Gaza missions are viable to be done and finished as quickly as possible.
Its tough for Israel as a country. They are constantly under threat of attacks. Must be very difficult for them on ground.
Thank you for the support. Hamas must be stopped and don't worry he will be stopped, the crimes he committed won't be forgiven. Israel is strong and steady🇮🇱
This is so one sided.
Terrorists that target and kill children and elderly won't hesitate to down a civilian aircraft.
"While neither Hamas nor Israel is likely to intentionally target civilian aircraft.."
Is it a joke?
Hemas intentionally targets civilians all the time.
I mean yes it has ICM but isnt it concerning that what if it malfunctions? How about it cant interfare with multiple missles? It's pretty dangerous to even put civilians in the sky while missiles are in the sky considering what will ICM do if their classified military missle defences have been compromised multiple times?
It simply shows Hamas rockets are not as sophisticated as many people seem to think. If they had the platforms to bring down such targets, the airport wouldn't be open
Exactly these people are in open Air prison and their lands have been occupied for 75 years, Israel has their names and house numbers and can even call before bumbing their buildings, these ppl are fighting apartheid state system and they knew Israel is much stronger than them but still chose to attack near Gaza settlement to remind the world that Israel far right current government decided to anax west bank and tried to make agreements with arab states while not giving phalastinians their own state that the international agreements told Israel to do. Just go google the attrocities these ppl in palastine face and how they are opressed, and also google how Israel is oppressed by Hamas then judge for your self not following western baised media. ✌️
Isn’t it 6000 bombs dropped from Israel as well? IDF should communicate with the airport towers on whether or not they have clear space for them to land at different points and areas. Israel knows about all parts of Palestine because it is occupied by Military forces so they often are able to pick up on Hamas activity even though theirs is more frequent.
Israel calls the people to save their lives because terrorists are based in the same building.@@mahmudshiil135
You showed Haifa in a wrong location....
Ppl living in america wanting to pick sides on this war can still fly into that area and fight, is the gist of what I got.
Just a matter of time before a "mistake" happens.
When coming from the Palestinians it won't be a mistake. They are waiting for an option to escalate things even more. The things they already did are terrible
He has such a nice house there
Aircraft's have IFF, which stays on, so the radar can id as commercials aircraft, you can turn it off if you want to get shot down. That simple.
Hamas doesn't have aircraft so everything in the air is civilian. Civilian aircraft don't have IFF. They have TX/RX transponders though a 4 digit SQUAWK code though. An aircraft transponder failure would not result in the immediate engagement of the airliner. Modern Doppler and pulse Doppler radar can easily discriminate between different types of aircraft in the event that a civilian airliner is not transmitting a SQUAWK and discern the type of aircraft.
That's weird must be a set up
this is scary, better keep it closed.
Great video but Haifa's location is incorrect. 😅
Very dangerous area right now
Over 6 million have died
The world has seen enough war and bloodshed, reconciliation is the only way! Survival does not mean life and death, let's let go of hatred, this world needs more love and tolerance!
Tolerate the bully and banish the victim
Sick world and joke of the year
Tom Scott is that you?
They’re going to air on the side of keeping it open.
The fact they said Hamas would “likely not attack civilian aircraft” is comical.
WSJ 😃
At least Tel Aviv is quite far away from Gaza..
I guess its lucky that not everything is controlled by Osprey.
Most of the flights arrive in Israel with young people who are landing and going right away to join their Military unites. There were few Cruz ships which did the same.
I appreciate you are comparing Israel to Ukraine, and if comparing HAMAS and Russians in terms of war crimes and barbarism is correct, but Hamas and Russia's SAM capabilities are way different. Russians shot MH-17 over Ukraine back 2014.
Hamas is similiar to ukro nazis in targething civillians
Russia is still having flights, what do Russia and Israel have in common? They outnumber their enemy 100:1, they control the majority of "war" territory and they are the aggressive forces (they are moving into enemy territory) in both wars.
The bot account with bot name trying to call Ukraine Nazist is like saying Jews are Nazists, non sense, you could've find better ways to insult Ukraine lol.@@user-vv3pv6xt9m
wasnt russians, it was "separatists" meaning Ukrainians siding with Russia. big difference, wonder if my comment will get censored...
@@JohnnyStambinoIt might as well because you're dead wrong
I feel that a 747 could get shot down…because the hamas may do that because sometimes things can go terribly wrong
good thing 747's don't fly to Israel anymore
WHY PEOPLE SHARE INFLAMMATION THAT SHOULD NOT BE TOLD IS BEYOND MY UNDERSTANDING
Most comercial flights were cancelled, thousands of turist are traped in Israel.....
It's all about risk management. If you are a European airliner and routes to LLBG are a fraction of your business then it makes no sense to risk your fleet and crew.
If you are the Israeli government then given the lack of safe and reliable corridors, and your own's aerial supremacy it makes no sense to shut it down.
For Israeli airliners it's almost all of their business anyway.