Also, seeing how far the roof of those trains is from the overhead wire really shows the difference in loading gauge between American and European train networks.
Looking back, it seems like the 1990s was such a promising decade. Major US cities became attractive places to live for the first time since the 1950s. Politicians were interested in building transit and making meaningful and future-proof investments. The world seemed more harmonious than ever and future was bright. Unfortunately, just for one decade.
@@kos-mos98 America was on top of the world in the 90s. The Soviet Union had just collapsed and most people were blissfully unaware of china's looming rise. the optimism was unparalleled, like the roaring 20s after ww1 or the post war futurist period after ww2.
Well, the Avelia certainly looks a lot more sleek and high-speed than the quite bulky first-gen Acela. Once they are rolled out en masse there should be a real positive image boost for Acela service.
@@bahnspotterEU Avelia is designed for speeds that the NEC cannot support. Avelia looks modern, in you forget that in 2022 we will be getting a brand-new locomotive-hauled fleet, but there is no useful application for this modernity. Buying more of the slower tilting trains would inevitably lower the fares and make services more frequent. But nah, ability to run at 220 mph is somehow more valuable for Amtrak
@@ramzanninety-five3639 The reason for that is because they're currently upgrading the NEC to be able to support these speeds. Also the trains (right now) will be able to do 160 instead of 140 in the same areas due to improved technology.
@@piemadd He is right though in the sense that the Avelia is delivering performance that it will probably never actually put to use. Even with further upgrades the NEC will never be able to accommodate 200mph running on its present alignment, especially not in mixed traffic with commuter rail and NorthEast Regionals. In my opinion it doesn't even need to be able to do that, 150-160 is just fine, but yeah, the true potential of the Avelia will not be utilised. I still like it though and think it's best to buy something that's striking and captivating, rather than something that only fulfills current requirements. The Avelia will still work just fine at 150-160mph, so that's not really a problem.
@@ramzanninety-five3639 This is take ill-informed at best. Firstly, the benefits of tilting trains are of marginal use on the NEC because most slowdowns are caused by old bridges/tunnels or traffic, not curves. The majority of sharp curves are between New York Penn and Providence - except MTA bans the use of the tilting mechanism on the Acela south of New Haven due to clearance concerns, so it's useless for half the route. The other half of the Shore Line north of New Haven is capacity-restricted: since it basically skirts neighborhoods the whole way, it doesn't have the right-of-way width for a third track or even extensive passing sidings. That means that Shore Line East and Northeast Regional trains routinely slow Acela's progress - the latter's timetable speed is much lower than track speed on this segment of the lien for that reason. When you speed up Northeast Regionals as well by converting them to tilting equipment, you only compound the problems of mixed traffic scheduling while making the Regional's equipment more expensive to buy and maintain. Not to mention incompatible with the long-distance fleet should one of those trains need extra equipment in a pinch. Secondly, the Avelia Liberty is only certified for 186MPH. 220 is what Siemens says it's good for if the tilt mechanism is removed. So there's not nearly as much spare topend as you're making it out to be - Amtrak has no plans to remove the tilting mechanism, and I'll explain more on why below. It also has a higher power:weight ratio than the old Acela, which in turn has much better PWR than the X2000. That means faster acceleration, which means tighter schedules, especially when you're doing as much weaving around slower traffic as Acela does on the Trenton-New Haven segment of the NEC. Thirdly, the Avelia Liberty is raising maximum service speeds almost across the board. 150 to 165 between Trenton and Newark gets the press, but the big gains are made on slower segments. The current Acela needs constant-tension catenary to run at above 125MPH; the Avelia will not once its pantograph modifications are complete. Not needing constant-tension wires means *the new trains will be able to run at 135MPH+ on nearly 130 additional miles of the NEC* compared to the old Acela. This is why Amtrak optioned the Avelias with tilting - without it, taking existing curves at 135-150MPH would be impossible. Fourthly, more trains is not the only way to lower prices. What drives price is number of seats versus demand for seats, so as long as you have more seats available, prices will come down. The Avelia Liberty also has more capacity per trainset than the old Acela, but more importantly, the train is designed to be modular so Amtrak can order additional cars to expand their trainsets - booster motors can even be added to the end cars' 2-axle trucks to increase power if need be. Given the traffic congestion issues on the NEC, this is a far better solution than ordering more trains, which will need to fight for already-limited time slots through choke points like the Hudson River tunnels. Finally, the X2000 in Sweden is a low-volume, business-oriented premium product, just like the Acela. Like I said, maintenance on tilting trains is much more complex and costly than a non-tilting train, which means that for second-tier services appealing to budget travelers like the Northeast Regional, they are very rarely worth their expense.
This is the side of UA-cam I wish had more participants. UA-cam documentarians are highly underrated, especially those that document the history of different modes of transportation. This mini doc was top tier chef's kiss.
The X2000 (number 2013) that visited the US is still in daily use in Sweden today. It is much older than the first generation Acela, and is still going strong.
Same with the ICE 1 units, as of yet none of them have been retired yet. In fact, they're currently being shortened and readied for another ten years or so of service.
Finns det nåt bra register där du kan kolla upp information så som vilka sträckor dem kör/har kört om olika lok t.ex x2 2013 eller vagnar? Jag har letat ett tag men har inte lyckats hitta nåt.
@@BillyTheBeast Om något forum på nätet kan svara på sådana frågor så är det Postvagnen (Svenska Järnvägsklubben) @Mohamed Abokar Sorry for another reply with this strange language! (the reply is directed @Socialism is when no Capitalism and will be of no intrest for you!)
Deutsche Bahn has ordered tilting trains in 1994, still running as ICE-T for less high speed service. There was even a Diesel version called ICE-TD, capable of 125 mph.
Exactly. The tilting system of the ICE T is based on italian Pendelino. But it wasn't very sustainable. With each software update for the train the system has to be reseted. Maintanance is very expensive. Therefore DB decided to deactivate the system. In 2021 the ICE T is active on importend lines like Frankfurt-Dresden, but the tilting system is only used around Passau. The ICE TD (Diesel version) wasn't successful. Only two sets survived the scrapping and are used as Advanced train labs at DB Systemtechnik GmbH - the research division of Deutsche Bahn.
I rode the ICE-TD from Hamburg to Copenhagen a few times. It wasn't as pleasant as it should of been, the noise from the diesel engine had a bad habit of shaking the entire cabin during idle at stations. This problem could have been fixed in time but there wasn't a demand for this type of train. I think the only reason it was doing the Hamburg-Copenhagen route was that it could go on a ferry and unelectrified track. The last few times I rode it in 2016 it was very much showing its age too, they weren't putting the effort to update or even properly maintain the cabin.
@@daskurka Yeah, these trains were neglected. There was even the possibility of transforming them to hybrid drive technology but Deutsche Bahn wasn't interested.
Sakura, where was the power to power these to come from? The _only_ overhead electrical powered system is in the Northeast Corridor. Also, if trains can be built here, they should be built here. Plus, there's _nothing_ 'crazy' about (North) American railways
@@Marten0615 Only one set have completed its overhaul so far and the new interior is the minor part of the overhaul. All elecronics and interior is replaced (Only the steel chassis remain of the old X2000. A new train in a old package)
@@tygattyche2545 I think they're going to serve for a long time. A few years ago they bought back a few X2000 sets which had been sold to China and refurbished them to keep up with demand.
Stimmt es gibt aber noch ice 2, ice 3, ice 4, ice t, ice td, ice 3, velaro d, und den velaro novo bzw. Noch in planung also es gibt deutlich mehr als zwei generationen...
Funfact: The ICE set which was on trial is still in service under the name “Bruchsal” and according to DB, nearly all ICE 1 sets will be kept in service at least until 2030, though shortened with only 9 instead of 12 coaches.
@@Matchesr2d2 Nope. The ICE 1s were refurbished once already and are getting a second ground-up refurbishment. That's a disassembly to the chassis level and replacement of everything from the screws to all the electronics and wiring. If anything, this tells you about the deplorable state that DB is currently in. They can't afford to buy new trains so they have to refurbish the same old junk multiple times. That's not in any way an advantage. I'm sorry, bud, but you do understand that we have access to google too, right?
Yea we don't stare at strangers, we angrily stare out the window or just mind our own business. The 4-pack seating is mostly because rail travel is common for all sorts trips, not just business, and it makes sense for families or friend groups travelling together
This make sense. Bombardier bought the x2000 factory in my hometown Kalmar Sweden around the same time, closing it a few years later, no one understand why. Guess the wanted access to the tilting cabin technology to make the Acela? Train
Oh that's interesting. ABB was actually the first to be eliminated from consideration for the Acela project., which confused everyone because no explanation was ever given. I'm not sure whether these two things are related, but now I'm curious.
@@peterdibble They are, Bombardier would eventually use that technology on the Class 221 Super Voyager and Class 390 Pendolinos, as well as monopolizing the Italian High Speed market with it.
Pendolino is originally Fiat Ferrovias train ….. later Fiat Ferrovia i think was annexed to the French Alstom… here in Finland VR:s own train Sets (first generation in Finland) was still from Fiat before the annexation to Alstom…. Finnish Russian Allegro Pendolinoes where delivered by Alstom at a later stage. In Russia high speed Sapsan train sets are then the more georgious German Siemens made Velaro Trainsets:) (wich i prefere more allthow i do like Pendolino aswell) VR first set have had difficultyes in Finnish winter in the beginning but nowdays they work reliabilly
@@peterdibble Bombardier and Alstom also have a history of anti competitive practices. I'm actually doing some personal investigation now on the matter.
No X2000 has been retired so that unit is still in service. As the X2000 uses a power car at one end it is possible to put another power car at the other end and double the horsepower. The X2000 has no replacement as of yet as tilting trains are more expensive. It has been joined by a non tilting X55 Regina train which uses the brute force method but also takes advantage of Swdedens unusually wide loading profile. Sweden is slowly upgrading its rail network removing thw worst curves and building new lines. Any new line of track is built for 250km/h today
Ice has also further advanced as the ice 3/br 403 contains 4 powercars in 8 coaches, meaning that a full length train of to trains is containing 16 coaches and among them 8 powercars.
Well... One cab control car has become a museum piece, though that was part of the Chinese set. Of the original Swedish sets, one power car and a few coaches have been scrapped after accidents. The power car Amtrak used, 2013, is still in service however. Saw it yesterday.
Its worth saying that X2000 is 315cm wide while ICE1 is 280cm wide, so X2000 is considerably wider than ICE3. Of cause, Regina is even wider at 350cm. It was also worth saying that X2000 was really built to allow traffic during the time the lines was straightened. That partly happend, but not to the amount that was intended. Still X55 is mostly operating on the newly built lines. X55/regina retain the soft boggi set up. Apart from that, in Norway the BN73 is pretty much a tilting Regina, but older, and also nicer.
Now, thirty years later, Sweden is considering building a new HSR network since we think the X2000's, which are still in service, are not fast enough :) I must say that I really like them though, they have been refurbished and are very comfortable and enjoyable to ride.
Update on this: The new incoming right-wing government is scrapping those plans since according to them it costs too much. It's a shame, considering that the current network is essentially at it's capacity.
@@jakegames7808 It would be a waste of taxpayer money. Finally, people like you don't get precisely what you want.
2 роки тому+64
The train cap from 1993 was christened "Bruchsal" (a small city neat Stuttgart) in the 2000s and is still in service as the #184 multiple unit. He regularly drives my regular route Erfurt-Leipzig-Berlin
I recently found out that pretty much all 1st gen ICE's were still in service. That surprised me. I remember - as a kid - blowing my mind seeing the 3rd gen ICE's pull up at the station. I thought 'the future is now', and that we were never gonna see those old ICE's ever again.
@@flopsinator5817 yes you could see them regulary. At the moment plans are ongoing to modernise those train sets (again). To keep them in ICE service to 2030. If I remember correcly there were also plans/rumors to use them in 'slower' IC serivce later to replace even older Eurofima coaches.
@@flopsinator5817 lol same, and ironically, i think the ice 3 is still the most sleek or maybe even modern looking one, the new one looks a bit, odd to say the least
The very X2000 set used for testing in the US is still in service in Sweden 30 years later. All the X2 units are beeing overhauled after more than 30 years of non-stop service for another 30 years of use. Back in the days when locomotives were designed and built in Sweden we tried to design them for a lifespan of atleast 50 years before retirement. I belive the oldest locomotive type built and still used in Sweden is from the 1930s. (Shunters) For mainline service the oldest locos are from the 50s and 60s.
Wow quite a long lifetime in comparision of the "ice-td" That has already been retired at just 12 jears of service. But the one that drove through america is still in service today...
@@WDI2008 The AEM-7 is effectively a RC loco assembled in the US. They did do some changes, like slightly beafed up the transformer and traction motor, and also increase the diameter of the wheels a bit. The Swedish RC loco is a all-round loco, it was never intended for high speed use, While AEM-7 is really (at least originally) mostly used at high speed.
In the era of technology being obsolete with the blink of an eye, it's a pleasant surprise to see Sweden choosing to overhaul and keep using existing rolling stock.
@@Robbedem yes but it did not surprise me one bit to hear "numerous delays" connected to bombardier. Same is happening to my cities public transport. Some ancient Metro Trains are desperately waiting to be replaced by new units over here...
As someone who currently mostly travels on X2000, I found this incredibly fascinating. Interestingly, while the first generation Acelas are going to retire soon, X2000 is still very much alive - not only are they still in service but there is no plan to replace them. SJ is instead option for modernisation of existing trainsets - one of them is already in service and I was lucky to ride it the last week, it's pretty awesome.
yeah the X2000 was definitely a proven platform that probably would have worked out better for Amtrak had they gone with it instead of getting Bombardier and Alstom to build them a frankenstein's monster of a trainset. Without a doubt the X2000 would have lasted longer and the parts are far more plentiful. Amtrak is cannibalizing Acela units for parts at this point and it likely wouldn't have come to that had they gone with the X2000
It is important to remember that European and U.S. rail safety standards are so different, European engineers call our standards, especially our "crush-strength" standard, "bank vault" safety. As a result, European train designs must be dramatically strengthened to meet American safety standards, generally making them heavier and reducing performance. This is why it isn't possible to just take a foreign train design and apply it "off the shelf" in the U.S.
European safety standards focuses more in preventive approach: prevent accidents in the first place. Henceforth, the greater emphasis of in-cab signaling.
@@dbclass4075 Ummmm, no. Prevention has very little to do with it. All rail networks try to minimize accidents as much as possible. There's not that much that you can do on this front than what is already being done. One way or another, everybody loses from a train accident. The difference comes from regulations driven by economics (as usual). US rail safety standards are made to favor a freight railroads in the case of a collision. In response to US freight being allowed to haul incredibly long and heavy trains, US passenger trains were required to be similarly hefty to withstand higher collision forces. In the absence of the crazy US minimum weight requirements, European and other train design philosophies moved to crash absorbance and light weight energy-efficient trains. European trains crumple like modern cars, a lot more than US trains. Obviously, if you don't have mile-long superheavy US-style freight trains to contend with, the crumply design makes infinitely more sense. If you do encounter heavy freight trains (I mean US-heavy, not EU-heavy) then things become a lot more complicated. A maximum weight US spec train will have enough momentum to simply continue cutting through the passenger train all the way. Thankfully, the US is moving toward the same philosophy as the EU while European trains are also becoming a lot better at handling crashes with US-style monster trains. This has led to the regulations becoming a lot more homogenized and making it possible for some some European designs to be redesigned for the wider US loading gauge and make it to the US (Stadler KISS/FLIRT, Siemens Vectron+Viaggio, etc.)
@@TohaBgood2 You are describing the structural aspect. I am referring more to active systems that activates the train, say when driver is unconscious, or running a danger aspect. Until recently, European trains have more of these systems. Sure, US-spec trains take forever to stop. Possible solutions: • Slow them down (U mode in Germany's PZB) • Give them more room to stop (say require two clear signal blocks instead of one).
Team ICE for sure. I've been on the ICE many times over in Germany and it is a wonderful way to travel. If you want to see what the passenger cars are like, just try the Brightline service down in Florida. The passenger coaches are so very similar to those of the ICE.
For speed on straight segments, definitely the ICE is better, but the Northeast corridor is anything but straight, which is where the tilting tech comes into play, giving the X2000 an advantage.
@@dijikstra8 Well German rail network isn't really build for high speed either if you compare to other European countries like France and Spain which build entire new tracks while Germany just left them or rebuild small segments.
@@NoZoDE True, but there are more dedicated high speed tracks than in Sweden where we just upgraded old lines to 200 kph, there are significant segments of 250-300 kph in Germany.
Truly amazed at the variety and breadth of railfan photos and videos you were able to acquire for this video! I remember touring the X2000 as a child when it was on display on Track A at Newark, NJ Penn Station!
Avelia Liberty has power car on both ends like ICE1 and tilting system similar to X2000 along with articulated bogies like TGV. This train can also run on dedicated right of way at 180+ mph if tilting system is switched off. This is perhaps the one of the state of the art high speed trains. In other words, Avelia Liberty, although based on TGV, carries the legacy of both ICE1 and X2000,
It would've been worth mentioning that at least the ICE didn't run in the US until after it was modified quite a bit. Also, they had "roughness" in germany too, which led to the rushed introduction of the three-piece wheel, which led to the Eschede-Tragedy in 98.
Yes, it's my understanding that both trains were fitted with American-style couplers, pantographs, and in-cab signaling, as well as modified electronics to interface with the towing locomotives for remote control and head-end power.
One thing that struck me as a german who is used to seeing ICEs all the time is that the pantograph appears to be much taller on the US demo ICE than what I'm used to here in Germany. Are the overhead wires higher up on US railroads?? 🤔
@@Exodon2020 If the US ever decides to create a nation wide passenger train network, hopefully the build new lines and seperate them from freight lines. This is a bit of a con in Europe, causing many delays as trains have to wait to let freight trains pass.
A small mistake: Deutsche Bahn was only formed in 1994, merging both the West German Deutsche Bundesbahn (who actually send these ICE cars) and East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, who continued operations for a few years after reunification.
Came to CA in 72. Was promised a bullet train between San Diego. SF and Sacto... still waiting. Oh..and the $ tag is now $100B...joy... great videos. Love quality. Attention to small significant details! Please do not stop making them. Learning tons from them!
@@DJAUDIO1 The problem isn't the money, but the insane influence from the automotive lobby. Japan, Germany, Italy - they all have a huge automotive industry as well, but in the US it got completely out of hand to the point, that you can't even walk places.
The Acela trains are heading towards retirement after 20 years, meanwhile the X2000 after 30 years now are being refurbished for another 30. Still going strong :)
While the ICE 1s are not really getting refurbished. Deutsche Bahn says the ICE 1s have a service until at least 2030 which means even the newest ICE 1 will be at least 40 years in service. (They were constructed 1988 until 1993)
I always thought that bidding with a product that doesn't exist has a weird advantage over existing products; as you can just pretend you're going to do it cheaper, faster, whatever, and then when the inevitable delays and shortfalls happen, well, too bad, you got that contract now ...
Well the problem in america is that you never gonna get another contract because its not gonna exist (apparently highway go brrr) so nothing of the sort matters to you
I honestly can't believe that ICE's ever ran in the US. I grew up with them as my primary method of travel within Germany and it's an absolute delight knowing they had a run in the US. Only a pity that in the end, they weren't selected for permanent use.
Funny enough, Amtrak seems to have widely promoted it as "the ice train." It was pronounced this way in pre-recorded audio announcements on the train itself, and their newspaper ads would say things like "this is one very hot-looking ICE machine."
Great feature, keep up the high quality work. Watching in September 2023, and the Avelia Liberty has not entered service yet. Bright line is closer to highspeed ops right now and could be the course for future American High Speed Rail.
I've ridden the X2000, ICE and TGV all a couple of times and although it's not really possible to compare them, I do feel that the X2000 has the best comfort. I had no idea of its tilting technology, but the ride comfort is really amazing! Then again the other 2 are a lot faster, but face the issue that they can only use that speed when using its designated high speed track. Good to see that european technology is appreciated (or was at least), although I do wonder how much politics was involved with the choice of the Acela, considering it was not demonstrated at all.
Never realized these trains went all over the country like this and even had revenue service on the NEC, though I was fairly young at the time and not following trains the way I do today.
Always when I see the ICE 1 in germany, I check the numbers. It amazes me that its still running in germany, and always when I see it, it amazes me that it travelled so far.
Those two high-speed European trains from Sweden and Germany are the ones I first saw in my childhood train tapes (All About Fast Trains, There Goes a Train, Trucks, Tractors & Trains and Train Songs). One aspect that is one of my favorite train shots was the x2000 and Strasburg Railroad #90 side by side, which is a rare pair of engines lined up that will never happen again.
The ICE trainset made a late addition to its official lineup of tour stops at Phoenix (Arizona) Union Station on its way from California eastward. News coverage of the future of passenger trains was instrumental in the 2000 passage of the regional tax that built today's Valley Metro trolley system (they call them "light-rail-vehicles" but we happily call them trolleys). Arizona still doesn't have commuter trains, but the ICE train stop will be a milestone of the history when metro Phoenix and Tucson finally do. Thanks to Amtrak and ADOT and Southern Pacific (pre-UPRR merger) for making this happen.
I really like that you have the swedish SJ X2000 as thumbnail, i remember as a young kid when they were released, It was Swedens first highspeed train that could go over 200Km/h. At that time it was pretty fast for a Swedish train. The X2000 did work pretty good on the old track between Gothenburg and Stockholm and it is still in use today.
As some ICE1 trains have been put out of service in the last few years, in favor of the new ICE generations and for having spare cabins to lengthen other trains, i was curious if these exact two locomotives (401 084/584) and their cabins are still in service. At least for the locomotives i found some informations, they actually are in everyday service to this day. Nice video! Very interessting history of American highspeed train system
Acela has done very well over the years and I wasn't expecting to see this come across my feed, but knowing you'd make this into something worth watching, I'm glad I tuned in.
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that the original ICE-1's and X2000s are still operating today thanks to refurbishment programs. It seems wasteful by comparison that the Acela fleet is already being replaced even though they're a decade younger.
@@peterdibble The reason the current Acela trains have to be replaced is because they're heavier than other high speed trainsets in other parts of the the world due to the need to comply with strict FRA crash standards while running at nearly the same speeds and going through more curves. The level of wear and tear the Acela experiences in service is infinitely more than any other high speed train in the world.
@@peterdibble In Germany we now have a good 5 or 6 ICE versions (ICE1,2,3, T, 4 and a Other Version of the ICE3) we use every version but the ice 1 will soon be retired
I didn't see the train when it visited Tampa, but heard that the train's basically "all day long" trip from Orlando had a number of problems. The freight line they took had "deferred maintenance" which resulted in it picking switches with moderate regularity. Luckily at low speed so that re-railing the coaches was only going to take a bit of time, and the train had to fit into the freight schedule by ducking into sidings. (I had heard that there were several incidents. Not something you want big wigs involved with. Living in St Petersburg t the time, and attending college in Tampa, I never got any rides in until I lived in North Carolina. The Amtrak service north was dismal at best.
I saw the X2000 on tour at Los Angeles' Union Station in July 1993. But even better - in August, I went on vacation to the East Coast and thanks to the X2000 Metroliner schedules posted on the rec.railroad USEnet newsgroup on the early Internet, I was able to ride the X2000 (during its 2nd revenue service stint) from NY Penn Station to Philadelphia's 30th Street Station! It was quite a ride, very smooth. I remember the telephone in the train! Also, by serendipity, I was able to see the ICE train during its promotional tour at 30th Street Station a couple days later. When I went back home to L.A., I got to see the ICE again when it visited Union Station later that month. In May 1995, I went on vacation in Europe, armed with a Eurailpass. I also got to ride the Eurostar from London to Paris (not covered by the Eurailpass). I was able to ride the ICE on its home turf from Frankfurt to Berlin a week later. Nearly 20 years later, during another trip to the East Coast, I finally got to ride the Acela Express, from Boston Back Bay station to Washington Union Station.
The X2000 power car used in the US (2013) is still in use today in Sweden, so if you are heading over here you might get the chance to ride in a train pulled by the very same power car as in the US, I can't guarantee the rest of the cars will be the same though
When the ICE train was in New Haven the engineer was running his mouth saying how bad the USA trains were. Everyone got mad and pulled him out of the cab and beat him up!
great video. Since I am from Germany, I think I am falling for the ICE... but any form of high speed rail is a great development and competition is also a good thing. I wonder how decisions would have been today with new generations of equipment.
I rode the X2000 from Ann Arbor, Michigan to Kalamazoo and back during its Midwest tour. The highlight was riding west up in the cab and enjoying the unobstructed view of rural Michigan.
What a thoroughly researched and documented review of this most interesting period in US rail technology. It must have taken much time to collate all this info from different sources. What software did you use for that brilliant map animation of the tour routes? I'm curious as to why after 20 years the original Acelas are considered cooked and in need of replacement, while many of those ICEs and X2000s are still going strong 30+ years later.
You gotta admit: The two manufacturer lending these trains for a year and not even selling one unit is kinda hard. The train that won the contract didnt do a tour like that and got better with the experience from the X2000 and ICE. But in the end they wanted power and american luxury which lead to the Acela Express... 23:29 All these tours with these foreign trains all over the country and nobody was willing to build a new rail- network. A " Westcoast- Corridor" is the least that they could have done. Now years later California sunk billions into high- speed- rail that gets hammered by corruption and will never be profitable
The X2000 is still in service today, 31 years after being first built, although ABB has pretty much disowned it and left all the maintenance and upgrades to Kalmar Verkstad and Stadler. Meanwhile, the ICE 1 needed to get rid of its tram wheels when it smacked into a bridge.
Thank you very much for an excellent presentation and walk down memory lane; rode both in revenue service on the noon Metroliner, 120 (and the prime rib on the ICE was the best I've had). One minor correction: On the swing back north through Florida the X2000 did stop at Wildwood and Ocala which still had passenger train service at the time. Both X2000 and the original ICE sets are still in service and will continue for at least the next ten years whereas the cheap junk Amtrak did buy will be gone in less than two. In the end it's always true, you get what you pay for.
If Amtrak does electric they should do it properly like even if it's for now just the Northeast Corridor just like nearly every other country with highspeed passenger rail order something like the Velaro D with American pantographs and boom you got what you need. (I know there are lots of other factors but that is basically the best approach they could do that's possible in the next 5 years
I got to take the Acela from DC to Boston for the first time last year, it was a really nice experience, not one I’d have expected to have in North America. The high speed parts of the route were really quite impressive.
The X2000 was built at a plant 20 miles from my hometown. I did pass the factory every day when communting to my job and I had collegues who had been working laying out cables in the train. They comment was that "the design engineers seemd to look at electric apparatus as some coloured cable that could had to be laid in the most crammed spaces". It's a great train, but if the electricity was gone and the train was halted on the track a hot Summer day - neither doors nor windows could be opened and the temperature would rise to uncomfortable levels very soon.
The ICE1 managed to make it's way into North America in the form of locomotives such as ACS-64, SC-44, SCB-40, ALC-42 and passenger coaches such as Siemens Venture, which are already in service with Brightline but will also be in service with Amtrak & VIA Rail Canada.
It is a failure of American Rail that I've never heard of Acela Express. I'm American and know all about the Japan bullet train and the TGV, both are famous. What I know about Amtrak is that they are old, broken down trains that really doesn't serve a purpose beyond being a government program. That's not 100% fair, but it isn't unfair either.
Interestingly, the _Avelia Liberty_ train sets are actually the first use of Alstom of a new type of high speed train. A variant of this train, the _Avelia Horizon_ , will become the new SNCF TGV train sets starting in 2024.
As a swede its funny to see the comment at 10.17 In sweden the four group chairs that face each other are mostly used by friend groups and mostly only occupied by 2 people. But if one person sits in that group of chairs no one else will sit there, and they have all four seats to themselfs.
I don't understand why the USA was cursed not to have the same HST networks enjoyed by Japanese, Chinese, and Europeans? Not only because American Railraod Industry was created by private sector or is it because a high lobbyism from Airlines industry or is it also because the lack of commitments by the existing American Railroad corporates? even at its zenith in Mid 1930s the Streamliner hype originated there. and even with a good networks at Northeast Corridor (Especially the PRR quadrouple track systems that ran between Newyork City and Washington DC through Philadelphia and Baltimore ALMOST a straight line. Did ACELA actually operated entirely on former PRR tracks which at its heyday ran a very fast express hauled by GG1 Electric locomotives.
As much I like Siemens Velaro more (ICE 3), it's incompatibility to American rail cannot be denied. Though a X2000 chassis with ICE 1 interior and amenities seems to be ideal (assuming the coffee machine instructions are translated into English).
Very interesting video! I had heard the X2000 had been in the US at some point. But i had no idea of the extent of it. X2000 are now int he process of being thoroughly refurbished here, and will remain in service for many years to come. I wonder what happened to the train set in this video? If its still in service here in Sweden….
All X2000 built are in service and will be refurbished to stay for years (except one or two drive units that have had serious accidents). One was operating in China for long time and was brought back to Sweden after that. The basic construction has been very successful in Sweden even if it was never exported in numbers anywhere as is.
@@jensribbholm8870 Not entirely true, one power car and some coaches have been scrapped following accidents. But, yes, this power car, 2013, is still in service at least. Don't know about the coaches though.
Still kinda disappointing while trains in Europe and Asia are reaching speeds of up to 350kmph or more, north America still hasn't cracked 250kmph. Some have even gone above 500kmph, but those are just during test runs.
You have no idea how WRONG it looks to have an ICE not bearing an "DB-Keks" but instead Amtrak plastered all around. Here, back in germany, the ICE 1, as it is called today, is still in Service - we have a whoole fleet of ICE-type trains now. ICE 1, the original design. ICE 2, a version that could besplit in two, with new wheel asemblies. ICE 3, the first one to have no locomotives at all. The carriages themselfs are powered. there is a new version of them, called the "Velaro D", but they are still called ICE 3 by DB. ICE T, this one is a little bit odd, because its a gusion of teh x2000 and the ICE 3 - the T stands for "tilting". ICE TD, take the concept of the aforementioned train, rip out the electric and put diesel in - And you have a tilting diesel-ICE. ICE 4 - the lastest of this breed of german 'super trains' a good step back from the top speed of the ice 3 (205mph) to around 155 mph - in germany the same reasons apply as in the northeast corridor - old infratructure cant cope with high speed and politicans can't seem to get thier head wrapped around the idea to spend money other than for tax evasion of thier friends.
I've recently (November 2021) been going through a few boxes of forgotten old newspapers - that were meant to be looked through for any clippings to save, or otherwise discard - and just came across a few period articles appearing in the local Seattle Times and Tacoma News Tribune from 1993, reporting on the X2000 and these trials... then I just found this video in my suggested feed today (11/4). 🤔😆
Those trains will still go strong! I am part of team, which are refitting both projects: X2000 and ICE1. I can tell you this: both of them were design to last! Now with new equipment 2 more decades in front
Yes - although the first Generation ICEs did suffer from an issue with their wheels if I recall correctly. Was still a kid, when Eschede happened, so my memory is a bit blurry on it.
@@ranekeisenkralle8265 Yes. But the reported vibrations in the "american ICE" happened in Germany as well. Which is the reason why the wheels got updated. And this update resulted in the Eschede incident. Newer ICE trains have a suspension.
Really enjoying your videos, Peter. The ones on the Portland highways were what caught my attention after years of wondering about the ramp stubs. Suggestion for a future video: the Oregon Electric commuter Railway. Oh and I like the X2000
Thanks, Andrew! Oregon Electric is actually on my list of possible future videos. I've also considered doing one that covers all of Portland's interurban lines, with Oregon Electric being one of the 5 different networks (if I remember correctly).
Love this video!! Now you need to do one on the Cascades line in the PNW and the uniqueness of the Talgo train set. I toured one in 1994 at the Everett station. I believe I rode it to Seattle as well. I have a newspaper clipping where I’m in one, I think.
Thanks! The 1994 Talgo tour is actually on my list as a tentative sequel to this video. It came on the heels of the X2000/ICE tours and shared a lot of similarities. I don't know exactly when I'll get around to it, but it may happen this year, we'll see. :)
6:52 for those new to the Railfan community, that locomotive is specifically called a "Power car". As most multiple unit trainsets have locomotives at each end, which are called "Power cars"
Wow, that was fascinating I never new the story of US high speed rail apart from the Adela train itself. Great video very well scripted with great footage.
I had no idea Amtrak trialed ICE trains. Seeing the Amtrak logo on them is absolutely cursed and I’m in love.
Also, seeing how far the roof of those trains is from the overhead wire really shows the difference in loading gauge between American and European train networks.
When I was looking on the thumbnail. Oh an ICE. But then I was confused about the Amtrak logo
@@PeterAuto1 same here
@@jlust6660 EU doesn't run double deck freight trains at least on those lines
Piko made an 3 piece HO version of the Amtrak ICE for Model Power a few years ago, in both grey and white.
Looking back, it seems like the 1990s was such a promising decade. Major US cities became attractive places to live for the first time since the 1950s. Politicians were interested in building transit and making meaningful and future-proof investments. The world seemed more harmonious than ever and future was bright. Unfortunately, just for one decade.
Seattle-Portland- San Francisco. Quality of life has been going downhill since the late 2000’s
The '90s was the last good decade.
It was a time of optimism, but that's about it. Too much optimism isn't a good thing.
@@sammagictv im not american. What was the 90's dream? What do you mean by brute reality? How did 9/11 affect america?
@@kos-mos98 America was on top of the world in the 90s. The Soviet Union had just collapsed and most people were blissfully unaware of china's looming rise. the optimism was unparalleled, like the roaring 20s after ww1 or the post war futurist period after ww2.
I really wish that Amtrak bought the X2000 instead of making the weird combo of TGV power cars and LRC passenger cars that the Acela is today...
Well, the Avelia certainly looks a lot more sleek and high-speed than the quite bulky first-gen Acela. Once they are rolled out en masse there should be a real positive image boost for Acela service.
@@bahnspotterEU Avelia is designed for speeds that the NEC cannot support. Avelia looks modern, in you forget that in 2022 we will be getting a brand-new locomotive-hauled fleet, but there is no useful application for this modernity. Buying more of the slower tilting trains would inevitably lower the fares and make services more frequent. But nah, ability to run at 220 mph is somehow more valuable for Amtrak
@@ramzanninety-five3639 The reason for that is because they're currently upgrading the NEC to be able to support these speeds. Also the trains (right now) will be able to do 160 instead of 140 in the same areas due to improved technology.
@@piemadd He is right though in the sense that the Avelia is delivering performance that it will probably never actually put to use. Even with further upgrades the NEC will never be able to accommodate 200mph running on its present alignment, especially not in mixed traffic with commuter rail and NorthEast Regionals.
In my opinion it doesn't even need to be able to do that, 150-160 is just fine, but yeah, the true potential of the Avelia will not be utilised. I still like it though and think it's best to buy something that's striking and captivating, rather than something that only fulfills current requirements. The Avelia will still work just fine at 150-160mph, so that's not really a problem.
@@ramzanninety-five3639 This is take ill-informed at best.
Firstly, the benefits of tilting trains are of marginal use on the NEC because most slowdowns are caused by old bridges/tunnels or traffic, not curves. The majority of sharp curves are between New York Penn and Providence - except MTA bans the use of the tilting mechanism on the Acela south of New Haven due to clearance concerns, so it's useless for half the route. The other half of the Shore Line north of New Haven is capacity-restricted: since it basically skirts neighborhoods the whole way, it doesn't have the right-of-way width for a third track or even extensive passing sidings. That means that Shore Line East and Northeast Regional trains routinely slow Acela's progress - the latter's timetable speed is much lower than track speed on this segment of the lien for that reason. When you speed up Northeast Regionals as well by converting them to tilting equipment, you only compound the problems of mixed traffic scheduling while making the Regional's equipment more expensive to buy and maintain. Not to mention incompatible with the long-distance fleet should one of those trains need extra equipment in a pinch.
Secondly, the Avelia Liberty is only certified for 186MPH. 220 is what Siemens says it's good for if the tilt mechanism is removed. So there's not nearly as much spare topend as you're making it out to be - Amtrak has no plans to remove the tilting mechanism, and I'll explain more on why below. It also has a higher power:weight ratio than the old Acela, which in turn has much better PWR than the X2000. That means faster acceleration, which means tighter schedules, especially when you're doing as much weaving around slower traffic as Acela does on the Trenton-New Haven segment of the NEC.
Thirdly, the Avelia Liberty is raising maximum service speeds almost across the board. 150 to 165 between Trenton and Newark gets the press, but the big gains are made on slower segments. The current Acela needs constant-tension catenary to run at above 125MPH; the Avelia will not once its pantograph modifications are complete. Not needing constant-tension wires means *the new trains will be able to run at 135MPH+ on nearly 130 additional miles of the NEC* compared to the old Acela. This is why Amtrak optioned the Avelias with tilting - without it, taking existing curves at 135-150MPH would be impossible.
Fourthly, more trains is not the only way to lower prices. What drives price is number of seats versus demand for seats, so as long as you have more seats available, prices will come down. The Avelia Liberty also has more capacity per trainset than the old Acela, but more importantly, the train is designed to be modular so Amtrak can order additional cars to expand their trainsets - booster motors can even be added to the end cars' 2-axle trucks to increase power if need be. Given the traffic congestion issues on the NEC, this is a far better solution than ordering more trains, which will need to fight for already-limited time slots through choke points like the Hudson River tunnels.
Finally, the X2000 in Sweden is a low-volume, business-oriented premium product, just like the Acela. Like I said, maintenance on tilting trains is much more complex and costly than a non-tilting train, which means that for second-tier services appealing to budget travelers like the Northeast Regional, they are very rarely worth their expense.
This is the side of UA-cam I wish had more participants. UA-cam documentarians are highly underrated, especially those that document the history of different modes of transportation. This mini doc was top tier chef's kiss.
The X2000 (number 2013) that visited the US is still in daily use in Sweden today. It is much older than the first generation Acela, and is still going strong.
Same with the ICE 1 units, as of yet none of them have been retired yet. In fact, they're currently being shortened and readied for another ten years or so of service.
Finns det nåt bra register där du kan kolla upp information så som vilka sträckor dem kör/har kört om olika lok t.ex x2 2013 eller vagnar? Jag har letat ett tag men har inte lyckats hitta nåt.
@@BillyTheBeast Hej jag vet inte om det, men du skulle kuunna skriva en kommentar på engelska för jag tror inte många här vet svenska.
@@mohamedabokar4384 Jag skrev på svenska för personen som skrev kommentaren är svensk.
@@BillyTheBeast Om något forum på nätet kan svara på sådana frågor så är det Postvagnen (Svenska Järnvägsklubben)
@Mohamed Abokar Sorry for another reply with this strange language! (the reply is directed @Socialism is when no Capitalism and will be of no intrest for you!)
Deutsche Bahn has ordered tilting trains in 1994, still running as ICE-T for less high speed service.
There was even a Diesel version called ICE-TD, capable of 125 mph.
Exactly. The tilting system of the ICE T is based on italian Pendelino. But it wasn't very sustainable. With each software update for the train the system has to be reseted. Maintanance is very expensive. Therefore DB decided to deactivate the system. In 2021 the ICE T is active on importend lines like Frankfurt-Dresden, but the tilting system is only used around Passau.
The ICE TD (Diesel version) wasn't successful. Only two sets survived the scrapping and are used as Advanced train labs at DB Systemtechnik GmbH - the research division of Deutsche Bahn.
@@dr.medwurst4547 talgo are the best option for tilting, and with their short wagons they can also offer wider cars with more passenger space
I rode the ICE-TD from Hamburg to Copenhagen a few times. It wasn't as pleasant as it should of been, the noise from the diesel engine had a bad habit of shaking the entire cabin during idle at stations. This problem could have been fixed in time but there wasn't a demand for this type of train. I think the only reason it was doing the Hamburg-Copenhagen route was that it could go on a ferry and unelectrified track. The last few times I rode it in 2016 it was very much showing its age too, they weren't putting the effort to update or even properly maintain the cabin.
@@daskurka Yeah, these trains were neglected. There was even the possibility of transforming them to hybrid drive technology but Deutsche Bahn wasn't interested.
TDs got Scraped... sadly..
They should have bought a fleet of X2000. Saved them a bunch of money and it is cheap and reliable. Perfect for America's crazy railways.
How is it crazy
@@THE_IRON_HORSE just compared to the hsr of other countries (aka old)
@@THE_IRON_HORSE crazy as in lay out etc. Crazy especially compared to my countrry of Japan.
Sakura, where was the power to power these to come from? The _only_ overhead electrical powered system is in the Northeast Corridor. Also, if trains can be built here, they should be built here.
Plus, there's _nothing_ 'crazy' about (North) American railways
The problem with X2000 is that the kickback is way to low
26:38 At the same time the X2000 and the ICE 1 are still in service although they are much older :D
I do not know about the X2000 but the ICE 1 is still in service and is planned to run at least till 2030.
@@tygattyche2545 The X2000 is in active service and have recently been overhauled with new interior so no signs of retirement
@@Marten0615 Only one set have completed its overhaul so far and the new interior is the minor part of the overhaul. All elecronics and interior is replaced (Only the steel chassis remain of the old X2000. A new train in a old package)
@@tygattyche2545 I think they're going to serve for a long time. A few years ago they bought back a few X2000 sets which had been sold to China and refurbished them to keep up with demand.
Stimmt es gibt aber noch ice 2, ice 3, ice 4, ice t, ice td, ice 3, velaro d, und den velaro novo bzw. Noch in planung also es gibt deutlich mehr als zwei generationen...
Funfact: The ICE set which was on trial is still in service under the name “Bruchsal” and according to DB, nearly all ICE 1 sets will be kept in service at least until 2030, though shortened with only 9 instead of 12 coaches.
They were refurbished though.
i was wondering.. thanks for that info
Interior design and power Modules got upgrades, rest is basically the same reaching 174mph every day.
i thought they would get another redesign and be in service till 2040 or did i confuse that with the ICN / Rabde 500 of the SBB
@@Matchesr2d2 Nope. The ICE 1s were refurbished once already and are getting a second ground-up refurbishment. That's a disassembly to the chassis level and replacement of everything from the screws to all the electronics and wiring. If anything, this tells you about the deplorable state that DB is currently in. They can't afford to buy new trains so they have to refurbish the same old junk multiple times. That's not in any way an advantage.
I'm sorry, bud, but you do understand that we have access to google too, right?
Didn't expect to spend a half hour of my Sunday learning about American high speed rail in the 90s, but here we are. Great work, Peter.
This channel is criminally under-appreciated!
The production quality is so good!
10:23 i can tell you that swedes don't like staring at strangers too! Americans are much more social in comparison.
Yea we don't stare at strangers, we angrily stare out the window or just mind our own business. The 4-pack seating is mostly because rail travel is common for all sorts trips, not just business, and it makes sense for families or friend groups travelling together
This make sense. Bombardier bought the x2000 factory in my hometown Kalmar Sweden around the same time, closing it a few years later, no one understand why. Guess the wanted access to the tilting cabin technology to make the Acela? Train
Oh that's interesting. ABB was actually the first to be eliminated from consideration for the Acela project., which confused everyone because no explanation was ever given. I'm not sure whether these two things are related, but now I'm curious.
@@peterdibble They are, Bombardier would eventually use that technology on the Class 221 Super Voyager and Class 390 Pendolinos, as well as monopolizing the Italian High Speed market with it.
@@Dexter037S4 390's are Alstom
Pendolino is originally Fiat Ferrovias train ….. later Fiat Ferrovia i think was annexed to the French Alstom… here in Finland VR:s own train Sets (first generation in Finland) was still from Fiat before the annexation to Alstom…. Finnish Russian Allegro Pendolinoes where delivered by Alstom at a later stage. In Russia high speed Sapsan train sets are then the more georgious German Siemens made Velaro Trainsets:) (wich i prefere more allthow i do like Pendolino aswell) VR first set have had difficultyes in Finnish winter in the beginning but nowdays they work reliabilly
@@peterdibble Bombardier and Alstom also have a history of anti competitive practices. I'm actually doing some personal investigation now on the matter.
No X2000 has been retired so that unit is still in service.
As the X2000 uses a power car at one end it is possible to put another power car at the other end and double the horsepower.
The X2000 has no replacement as of yet as tilting trains are more expensive.
It has been joined by a non tilting X55 Regina train which uses the brute force method but also takes advantage of Swdedens unusually wide loading profile.
Sweden is slowly upgrading its rail network removing thw worst curves and building new lines.
Any new line of track is built for 250km/h today
Just imagine to one day be able to go from Stockholm to Rome in 12 hours
Ice has also further advanced as the ice 3/br 403 contains 4 powercars in 8 coaches, meaning that a full length train of to trains is containing 16 coaches and among them 8 powercars.
Well... One cab control car has become a museum piece, though that was part of the Chinese set. Of the original Swedish sets, one power car and a few coaches have been scrapped after accidents. The power car Amtrak used, 2013, is still in service however. Saw it yesterday.
Its worth saying that X2000 is 315cm wide while ICE1 is 280cm wide, so X2000 is considerably wider than ICE3. Of cause, Regina is even wider at 350cm.
It was also worth saying that X2000 was really built to allow traffic during the time the lines was straightened. That partly happend, but not to the amount that was intended. Still X55 is mostly operating on the newly built lines. X55/regina retain the soft boggi set up.
Apart from that, in Norway the BN73 is pretty much a tilting Regina, but older, and also nicer.
Now, thirty years later, Sweden is considering building a new HSR network since we think the X2000's, which are still in service, are not fast enough :) I must say that I really like them though, they have been refurbished and are very comfortable and enjoyable to ride.
Update on this: The new incoming right-wing government is scrapping those plans since according to them it costs too much. It's a shame, considering that the current network is essentially at it's capacity.
@@jakegames7808 Yeah, it's pretty sad honestly :(
@@jakegames7808haha take the L
@@Mr_Cool what do you even mean by that
@@jakegames7808 It would be a waste of taxpayer money. Finally, people like you don't get precisely what you want.
The train cap from 1993 was christened "Bruchsal" (a small city neat Stuttgart) in the 2000s and is still in service as the #184 multiple unit. He regularly drives my regular route Erfurt-Leipzig-Berlin
I recently found out that pretty much all 1st gen ICE's were still in service. That surprised me.
I remember - as a kid - blowing my mind seeing the 3rd gen ICE's pull up at the station. I thought 'the future is now', and that we were never gonna see those old ICE's ever again.
@@flopsinator5817 yes you could see them regulary. At the moment plans are ongoing to modernise those train sets (again). To keep them in ICE service to 2030. If I remember correcly there were also plans/rumors to use them in 'slower' IC serivce later to replace even older Eurofima coaches.
@@flopsinator5817 lol same, and ironically, i think the ice 3 is still the most sleek or maybe even modern looking one, the new one looks a bit, odd to say the least
Its nearer to Karlsruhe wich Railway Enthusiasts should know because of the Karlsruher Model. And i live 10 Kilometers away from Bruchsal.
"build a fleet of American Flyer Trains"
Sounds like they are making model trains
The very X2000 set used for testing in the US is still in service in Sweden 30 years later.
All the X2 units are beeing overhauled after more than 30 years of non-stop service for another 30 years of use.
Back in the days when locomotives were designed and built in Sweden we tried to design them for a lifespan of atleast 50 years before retirement.
I belive the oldest locomotive type built and still used in Sweden is from the 1930s. (Shunters) For mainline service the oldest locos are from the 50s and 60s.
The EMD AEM-7 were also based on a Swedish design and were even nicknamed-Swedish Meatballs or Toasters!
Wow quite a long lifetime in comparision of the "ice-td"
That has already been retired at just 12 jears of service. But the one that drove through america is still in service today...
@@WDI2008 The AEM-7 is effectively a RC loco assembled in the US. They did do some changes, like slightly beafed up the transformer and traction motor, and also increase the diameter of the wheels a bit.
The Swedish RC loco is a all-round loco, it was never intended for high speed use, While AEM-7 is really (at least originally) mostly used at high speed.
@@-alwaysinvolved-3490
"etired at just 12 jears of service."
That is still way better than danish IC4
In the era of technology being obsolete with the blink of an eye, it's a pleasant surprise to see Sweden choosing to overhaul and keep using existing rolling stock.
”Swedes are comfortable staring at strangers” must be the biggest lie in world history😳
Yep, we are masters att staring into the middle distance, but stairing straight at someone, nope...
"after years of numerous delays"
BOMBARDIER MOMENT
Well, that was to be expected. The other trains already existed, while Bombardier and Alstom made a new one.
New trains always get delayed. ;)
@@Robbedem yes but it did not surprise me one bit to hear "numerous delays" connected to bombardier. Same is happening to my cities public transport. Some ancient Metro Trains are desperately waiting to be replaced by new units over here...
" Over the course of 15 months, the Swedish X2000 and the German InterCity Express (ICE) "
And in the end, they took the french one :D
As someone who currently mostly travels on X2000, I found this incredibly fascinating.
Interestingly, while the first generation Acelas are going to retire soon, X2000 is still very much alive - not only are they still in service but there is no plan to replace them. SJ is instead option for modernisation of existing trainsets - one of them is already in service and I was lucky to ride it the last week, it's pretty awesome.
yeah the X2000 was definitely a proven platform that probably would have worked out better for Amtrak had they gone with it instead of getting Bombardier and Alstom to build them a frankenstein's monster of a trainset. Without a doubt the X2000 would have lasted longer and the parts are far more plentiful. Amtrak is cannibalizing Acela units for parts at this point and it likely wouldn't have come to that had they gone with the X2000
It is important to remember that European and U.S. rail safety standards are so different, European engineers call our standards, especially our "crush-strength" standard, "bank vault" safety. As a result, European train designs must be dramatically strengthened to meet American safety standards, generally making them heavier and reducing performance. This is why it isn't possible to just take a foreign train design and apply it "off the shelf" in the U.S.
European safety standards focuses more in preventive approach: prevent accidents in the first place. Henceforth, the greater emphasis of in-cab signaling.
@@dbclass4075 US trains are made to survive a crash, European trains are made not to crash
@@dbclass4075 Ummmm, no. Prevention has very little to do with it. All rail networks try to minimize accidents as much as possible. There's not that much that you can do on this front than what is already being done. One way or another, everybody loses from a train accident. The difference comes from regulations driven by economics (as usual).
US rail safety standards are made to favor a freight railroads in the case of a collision. In response to US freight being allowed to haul incredibly long and heavy trains, US passenger trains were required to be similarly hefty to withstand higher collision forces. In the absence of the crazy US minimum weight requirements, European and other train design philosophies moved to crash absorbance and light weight energy-efficient trains. European trains crumple like modern cars, a lot more than US trains.
Obviously, if you don't have mile-long superheavy US-style freight trains to contend with, the crumply design makes infinitely more sense. If you do encounter heavy freight trains (I mean US-heavy, not EU-heavy) then things become a lot more complicated. A maximum weight US spec train will have enough momentum to simply continue cutting through the passenger train all the way.
Thankfully, the US is moving toward the same philosophy as the EU while European trains are also becoming a lot better at handling crashes with US-style monster trains. This has led to the regulations becoming a lot more homogenized and making it possible for some some European designs to be redesigned for the wider US loading gauge and make it to the US (Stadler KISS/FLIRT, Siemens Vectron+Viaggio, etc.)
@@TohaBgood2 You are describing the structural aspect. I am referring more to active systems that activates the train, say when driver is unconscious, or running a danger aspect. Until recently, European trains have more of these systems.
Sure, US-spec trains take forever to stop. Possible solutions:
• Slow them down (U mode in Germany's PZB)
• Give them more room to stop (say require two clear signal blocks instead of one).
@@dbclass4075 It's simple, the amount of unfenced railway and level crossings is immeasurably higher in the USA
Team ICE for sure. I've been on the ICE many times over in Germany and it is a wonderful way to travel. If you want to see what the passenger cars are like, just try the Brightline service down in Florida. The passenger coaches are so very similar to those of the ICE.
I believe they were both designed by Siemens
For speed on straight segments, definitely the ICE is better, but the Northeast corridor is anything but straight, which is where the tilting tech comes into play, giving the X2000 an advantage.
Amtrak is actually ordering a bunch of coaches pretty much identical to the brightline ones now.
@@dijikstra8 Well German rail network isn't really build for high speed either if you compare to other European countries like France and Spain which build entire new tracks while Germany just left them or rebuild small segments.
@@NoZoDE True, but there are more dedicated high speed tracks than in Sweden where we just upgraded old lines to 200 kph, there are significant segments of 250-300 kph in Germany.
Truly amazed at the variety and breadth of railfan photos and videos you were able to acquire for this video! I remember touring the X2000 as a child when it was on display on Track A at Newark, NJ Penn Station!
I had the pleasure to use the metroliner service of the ICE in Dec. 1993 here my video: ua-cam.com/video/oEYCBCDofSQ/v-deo.html
I remember seeing the ICE set at Penn Station as a kid.
Avelia Liberty has power car on both ends like ICE1 and tilting system similar to X2000 along with articulated bogies like TGV. This train can also run on dedicated right of way at 180+ mph if tilting system is switched off. This is perhaps the one of the state of the art high speed trains. In other words, Avelia Liberty, although based on TGV, carries the legacy of both ICE1 and X2000,
It's like the ICE T but worse
Bzzzzzzt, wrong@@trshcln6937
You are a pro at making these very informative videos! Keep up the great work!
It would've been worth mentioning that at least the ICE didn't run in the US until after it was modified quite a bit.
Also, they had "roughness" in germany too, which led to the rushed introduction of the three-piece wheel, which led to the Eschede-Tragedy in 98.
Yes, it's my understanding that both trains were fitted with American-style couplers, pantographs, and in-cab signaling, as well as modified electronics to interface with the towing locomotives for remote control and head-end power.
One thing that struck me as a german who is used to seeing ICEs all the time is that the pantograph appears to be much taller on the US demo ICE than what I'm used to here in Germany. Are the overhead wires higher up on US railroads?? 🤔
@@michaausleipzig In the US shipping containers are carried in double-decker configurations on flatbed carts. So I guess they are.
@@Exodon2020 are they double stacked on the Northeast corridor though? I haven't seen that. India apparently does do double stacking under a wire.
@@Exodon2020 If the US ever decides to create a nation wide passenger train network, hopefully the build new lines and seperate them from freight lines. This is a bit of a con in Europe, causing many delays as trains have to wait to let freight trains pass.
A small mistake: Deutsche Bahn was only formed in 1994, merging both the West German Deutsche Bundesbahn (who actually send these ICE cars) and East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, who continued operations for a few years after reunification.
I said it already he responded to it.
Came to CA in 72. Was promised a bullet train between San Diego. SF and Sacto... still waiting. Oh..and the $ tag is now $100B...joy... great videos. Love quality. Attention to small significant details! Please do not stop making them. Learning tons from them!
I've been waiting since 79.
@@DJAUDIO1 The problem isn't the money, but the insane influence from the automotive lobby. Japan, Germany, Italy - they all have a huge automotive industry as well, but in the US it got completely out of hand to the point, that you can't even walk places.
We could have had it in 1976 but... politics. Rohr Industries, Chula Vista, CA had a proposal to add high speed rail from San Diego to LA.
The Acela trains are heading towards retirement after 20 years, meanwhile the X2000 after 30 years now are being refurbished for another 30. Still going strong :)
While the ICE 1s are not really getting refurbished. Deutsche Bahn says the ICE 1s have a service until at least 2030 which means even the newest ICE 1 will be at least 40 years in service. (They were constructed 1988 until 1993)
I always thought that bidding with a product that doesn't exist has a weird advantage over existing products; as you can just pretend you're going to do it cheaper, faster, whatever, and then when the inevitable delays and shortfalls happen, well, too bad, you got that contract now ...
Well the problem in america is that you never gonna get another contract because its not gonna exist (apparently highway go brrr) so nothing of the sort matters to you
I honestly can't believe that ICE's ever ran in the US. I grew up with them as my primary method of travel within Germany and it's an absolute delight knowing they had a run in the US. Only a pity that in the end, they weren't selected for permanent use.
Me waiting if ICE is yet again miss-pronounced 😁, and to my surprise it got pronounced correctly.
Funny enough, Amtrak seems to have widely promoted it as "the ice train." It was pronounced this way in pre-recorded audio announcements on the train itself, and their newspaper ads would say things like "this is one very hot-looking ICE machine."
@@peterdibble 👍 for pronouncing it right. BTW, meanwhile we had tilting diesel powered ICEs in Germany as well, but they were a flop.
I remember hearing the promotion: “Amtracks ICE, the hottest thing on rails” ;)
This tour always fascinated me, it was great to see the entire story all laid out!
Great feature, keep up the high quality work. Watching in September 2023, and the Avelia Liberty has not entered service yet. Bright line is closer to highspeed ops right now and could be the course for future American High Speed Rail.
I've ridden the X2000, ICE and TGV all a couple of times and although it's not really possible to compare them, I do feel that the X2000 has the best comfort. I had no idea of its tilting technology, but the ride comfort is really amazing! Then again the other 2 are a lot faster, but face the issue that they can only use that speed when using its designated high speed track. Good to see that european technology is appreciated (or was at least), although I do wonder how much politics was involved with the choice of the Acela, considering it was not demonstrated at all.
Great video. I recall the X2000 was said to be allowed 140 MPH at some point in time.
Thank you for posting this. Very informative and helpful. I am slowly building an HO Amtrak ICE train and this helped greatly with understanding it.
This is easily the highest quality rail-focused video on UA-cam.
You should really have a Patreon (I bought a shirt tho 👍🏾)
Hey thanks very much!
I second the patreon comment. I would support you on there. It's a good website to pair with youtube.
26:21 Without the delays, it wouldn't be Bombadier
Never realized these trains went all over the country like this and even had revenue service on the NEC, though I was fairly young at the time and not following trains the way I do today.
Always when I see the ICE 1 in germany, I check the numbers. It amazes me that its still running in germany, and always when I see it, it amazes me that it travelled so far.
Those two high-speed European trains from Sweden and Germany are the ones I first saw in my childhood train tapes (All About Fast Trains, There Goes a Train, Trucks, Tractors & Trains and Train Songs).
One aspect that is one of my favorite train shots was the x2000 and Strasburg Railroad #90 side by side, which is a rare pair of engines lined up that will never happen again.
The ICE trainset made a late addition to its official lineup of tour stops at Phoenix (Arizona) Union Station on its way from California eastward. News coverage of the future of passenger trains was instrumental in the 2000 passage of the regional tax that built today's Valley Metro trolley system (they call them "light-rail-vehicles" but we happily call them trolleys). Arizona still doesn't have commuter trains, but the ICE train stop will be a milestone of the history when metro Phoenix and Tucson finally do. Thanks to Amtrak and ADOT and Southern Pacific (pre-UPRR merger) for making this happen.
I really like that you have the swedish SJ X2000 as thumbnail, i remember as a young kid when they were released, It was Swedens first highspeed train that could go over 200Km/h. At that time it was pretty fast for a Swedish train. The X2000 did work pretty good on the old track between Gothenburg and Stockholm and it is still in use today.
I saw both the X-2000 and the ICE in Orlando Florida, merchandise was 10 dollars for every item for the X-2000......20 dollars for the ICE.
Haha, maybe they sold out on the X2000 merch and thought they could make some money for the order of the expensive trainsets xD
This is why I wish I was born in the 1970's. So I could see the X2000 in my 20s.
As some ICE1 trains have been put out of service in the last few years, in favor of the new ICE generations and for having spare cabins to lengthen other trains, i was curious if these exact two locomotives (401 084/584) and their cabins are still in service. At least for the locomotives i found some informations, they actually are in everyday service to this day.
Nice video! Very interessting history of American highspeed train system
The ICE 084 is still running in Germany :)
Acela has done very well over the years and I wasn't expecting to see this come across my feed, but knowing you'd make this into something worth watching, I'm glad I tuned in.
a little tidbit: that ice trainset that toured north america is still very much in regular service here in germany.
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that the original ICE-1's and X2000s are still operating today thanks to refurbishment programs. It seems wasteful by comparison that the Acela fleet is already being replaced even though they're a decade younger.
@@peterdibble The reason the current Acela trains have to be replaced is because they're heavier than other high speed trainsets in other parts of the the world due to the need to comply with strict FRA crash standards while running at nearly the same speeds and going through more curves. The level of wear and tear the Acela experiences in service is infinitely more than any other high speed train in the world.
@@peterdibble In Germany we now have a good 5 or 6 ICE versions (ICE1,2,3, T, 4 and a Other Version of the ICE3) we use every version but the ice 1 will soon be retired
@@peterdibble The last of first-gen TGVs from 1981 were retired in 2020… About a 40-year service life for a sizeable chunk of that fleet.
@@theworldofflightsim.1169 The DB said that ICE1s will remain in service until at least 2030 in a shortened version.
You’re telling me St. Paul got to see the X2000 but not Atlanta?
I didn't see the train when it visited Tampa, but heard that the train's basically "all day long" trip from Orlando had a number of problems. The freight line they took had "deferred maintenance" which resulted in it picking switches with moderate regularity. Luckily at low speed so that re-railing the coaches was only going to take a bit of time, and the train had to fit into the freight schedule by ducking into sidings. (I had heard that there were several incidents. Not something you want big wigs involved with. Living in St Petersburg t the time, and attending college in Tampa, I never got any rides in until I lived in North Carolina. The Amtrak service north was dismal at best.
Knowing nothing but the cities and demonstration routes, those national tours are funny solutions to the traveling salesman problem
Great video, so rare to find all this information together in one video rather than dozens and dozens of old news articles. Thank you for making this!
The music you put in really completes the 90s atmosphere of this video, great job!
I saw the X2000 on tour at Los Angeles' Union Station in July 1993. But even better - in August, I went on vacation to the East Coast and thanks to the X2000 Metroliner schedules posted on the rec.railroad USEnet newsgroup on the early Internet, I was able to ride the X2000 (during its 2nd revenue service stint) from NY Penn Station to Philadelphia's 30th Street Station! It was quite a ride, very smooth. I remember the telephone in the train! Also, by serendipity, I was able to see the ICE train during its promotional tour at 30th Street Station a couple days later. When I went back home to L.A., I got to see the ICE again when it visited Union Station later that month.
In May 1995, I went on vacation in Europe, armed with a Eurailpass. I also got to ride the Eurostar from London to Paris (not covered by the Eurailpass). I was able to ride the ICE on its home turf from Frankfurt to Berlin a week later.
Nearly 20 years later, during another trip to the East Coast, I finally got to ride the Acela Express, from Boston Back Bay station to Washington Union Station.
The X2000 power car used in the US (2013) is still in use today in Sweden, so if you are heading over here you might get the chance to ride in a train pulled by the very same power car as in the US, I can't guarantee the rest of the cars will be the same though
Nice circle, there riding them all :)
When the ICE train was in New Haven the engineer was running his mouth saying how bad the USA trains were. Everyone got mad and pulled him out of the cab and beat him up!
Love you content. Binging your channel and really enjoying it
Excellent production quality. I like the detailed graphics, ample use of relevant stock footage, and clear narration audio.
great video. Since I am from Germany, I think I am falling for the ICE... but any form of high speed rail is a great development and competition is also a good thing.
I wonder how decisions would have been today with new generations of equipment.
German technology is far superior. I hope that we use it exclusively in the future.
Imagine if we funded trains instead of the stupid pipe dreams of Elon Musk. That stupid Boring Tunnel concept comes to mind as just one example.
I rode the X2000 from Ann Arbor, Michigan to Kalamazoo and back during its Midwest tour. The highlight was riding west up in the cab and enjoying the unobstructed view of rural Michigan.
What a thoroughly researched and documented review of this most interesting period in US rail technology. It must have taken much time to collate all this info from different sources. What software did you use for that brilliant map animation of the tour routes?
I'm curious as to why after 20 years the original Acelas are considered cooked and in need of replacement, while many of those ICEs and X2000s are still going strong 30+ years later.
This video was ridiculously good, you should have 10x more subs
You gotta admit: The two manufacturer lending these trains for a year and not even selling one unit is kinda hard. The train that won the contract didnt do a tour like that and got better with the experience from the X2000 and ICE. But in the end they wanted power and american luxury which lead to the Acela Express...
23:29 All these tours with these foreign trains all over the country and nobody was willing to build a new rail- network. A " Westcoast- Corridor" is the least that they could have done. Now years later California sunk billions into high- speed- rail that gets hammered by corruption and will never be profitable
Should have called them "american eagle" trains and they would have sold houndreds lol.
The X2000 is still in service today, 31 years after being first built, although ABB has pretty much disowned it and left all the maintenance and upgrades to Kalmar Verkstad and Stadler.
Meanwhile, the ICE 1 needed to get rid of its tram wheels when it smacked into a bridge.
Considering ICE 1's higher speed, tram wheels are not optimal anyway.
Huge respect for this channel which i never came across before. I am an avid rail fan and never knew that European trains ran here before!
Thank you very much for an excellent presentation and walk down memory lane; rode both in revenue service on the noon Metroliner, 120 (and the prime rib on the ICE was the best I've had). One minor correction: On the swing back north through Florida the X2000 did stop at Wildwood and Ocala which still had passenger train service at the time.
Both X2000 and the original ICE sets are still in service and will continue for at least the next ten years whereas the cheap junk Amtrak did buy will be gone in less than two. In the end it's always true, you get what you pay for.
If Amtrak does electric they should do it properly like even if it's for now just the Northeast Corridor just like nearly every other country with highspeed passenger rail order something like the Velaro D with American pantographs and boom you got what you need. (I know there are lots of other factors but that is basically the best approach they could do that's possible in the next 5 years
I got to take the Acela from DC to Boston for the first time last year, it was a really nice experience, not one I’d have expected to have in North America. The high speed parts of the route were really quite impressive.
The X2000 was built at a plant 20 miles from my hometown. I did pass the factory every day when communting to my job and I had collegues who had been working laying out cables in the train. They comment was that "the design engineers seemd to look at electric apparatus as some coloured cable that could had to be laid in the most crammed spaces".
It's a great train, but if the electricity was gone and the train was halted on the track a hot Summer day - neither doors nor windows could be opened and the temperature would rise to uncomfortable levels very soon.
Fun fact the acela was partially built in Barre VT and there are some neat pictures of it being assisted down a step switchback by either a GP9 or S1
Today, 16-11-2021, is the first run with passengers for newly upgraded (eletrical equipment + completely new interior) X2000 train in Sweden.
The ICE1 managed to make it's way into North America in the form of locomotives such as ACS-64, SC-44, SCB-40, ALC-42 and passenger coaches such as Siemens Venture, which are already in service with Brightline but will also be in service with Amtrak & VIA Rail Canada.
In 1993 the DB was still called "Deutsche Bundesbahn". It was not until 1994, when it merged with the DR, that it was called "Deutsche Bahn".
It is a failure of American Rail that I've never heard of Acela Express. I'm American and know all about the Japan bullet train and the TGV, both are famous. What I know about Amtrak is that they are old, broken down trains that really doesn't serve a purpose beyond being a government program. That's not 100% fair, but it isn't unfair either.
The x2000 and the ICE look really cool along side one and other.
Interestingly, the _Avelia Liberty_ train sets are actually the first use of Alstom of a new type of high speed train. A variant of this train, the _Avelia Horizon_ , will become the new SNCF TGV train sets starting in 2024.
As a swede its funny to see the comment at 10.17 In sweden the four group chairs that face each other are mostly used by friend groups and mostly only occupied by 2 people. But if one person sits in that group of chairs no one else will sit there, and they have all four seats to themselfs.
I don't understand why the USA was cursed not to have the same HST networks enjoyed by Japanese, Chinese, and Europeans? Not only because American Railraod Industry was created by private sector or is it because a high lobbyism from Airlines industry or is it also because the lack of commitments by the existing American Railroad corporates? even at its zenith in Mid 1930s the Streamliner hype originated there. and even with a good networks at Northeast Corridor (Especially the PRR quadrouple track systems that ran between Newyork City and Washington DC through Philadelphia and Baltimore ALMOST a straight line.
Did ACELA actually operated entirely on former PRR tracks which at its heyday ran a very fast express hauled by GG1 Electric locomotives.
American trains look ugly compared to Swedish and Chinese high-speed trains.
I always thought the X2000 was the train to have… especially after the success of the AEM7
As much I like Siemens Velaro more (ICE 3), it's incompatibility to American rail cannot be denied. Though a X2000 chassis with ICE 1 interior and amenities seems to be ideal (assuming the coffee machine instructions are translated into English).
@@dbclass4075 The 1st thing I loved about ICE 1 was it’s width .. those cars are wide and roomy … loved the interior
Very interesting video! I had heard the X2000 had been in the US at some point. But i had no idea of the extent of it. X2000 are now int he process of being thoroughly refurbished here, and will remain in service for many years to come. I wonder what happened to the train set in this video? If its still in service here in Sweden….
All X2000 built are in service and will be refurbished to stay for years (except one or two drive units that have had serious accidents). One was operating in China for long time and was brought back to Sweden after that. The basic construction has been very successful in Sweden even if it was never exported in numbers anywhere as is.
@@jensribbholm8870 Not entirely true, one power car and some coaches have been scrapped following accidents. But, yes, this power car, 2013, is still in service at least. Don't know about the coaches though.
Still kinda disappointing while trains in Europe and Asia are reaching speeds of up to 350kmph or more, north America still hasn't cracked 250kmph. Some have even gone above 500kmph, but those are just during test runs.
You have no idea how WRONG it looks to have an ICE not bearing an "DB-Keks" but instead Amtrak plastered all around. Here, back in germany, the ICE 1, as it is called today, is still in Service - we have a whoole fleet of ICE-type trains now. ICE 1, the original design. ICE 2, a version that could besplit in two, with new wheel asemblies. ICE 3, the first one to have no locomotives at all. The carriages themselfs are powered. there is a new version of them, called the "Velaro D", but they are still called ICE 3 by DB. ICE T, this one is a little bit odd, because its a gusion of teh x2000 and the ICE 3 - the T stands for "tilting". ICE TD, take the concept of the aforementioned train, rip out the electric and put diesel in - And you have a tilting diesel-ICE. ICE 4 - the lastest of this breed of german 'super trains' a good step back from the top speed of the ice 3 (205mph) to around 155 mph - in germany the same reasons apply as in the northeast corridor - old infratructure cant cope with high speed and politicans can't seem to get thier head wrapped around the idea to spend money other than for tax evasion of thier friends.
The ICE 4 while slower (250kph instead of 330kph) is I think the longest one of the bunch tho
@@evo3s75 They are intended to replace ICE 1 and 2 rather than as ICE 3 successor.
Is that a new thumbnail? Looks great
I've recently (November 2021) been going through a few boxes of forgotten old newspapers - that were meant to be looked through for any clippings to save, or otherwise discard - and just came across a few period articles appearing in the local Seattle Times and Tacoma News Tribune from 1993, reporting on the X2000 and these trials... then I just found this video in my suggested feed today (11/4). 🤔😆
I didn't think this would be very interesting, but you blew me away. You are a fantastic documentarian.
Thank you!
Wow amazing video! I have almost all of those trains, unfortunately they never made X2000 in Amtrak version
Those trains will still go strong! I am part of team, which are refitting both projects: X2000 and ICE1. I can tell you this: both of them were design to last! Now with new equipment 2 more decades in front
Yes - although the first Generation ICEs did suffer from an issue with their wheels if I recall correctly. Was still a kid, when Eschede happened, so my memory is a bit blurry on it.
@@ranekeisenkralle8265 Yes. But the reported vibrations in the "american ICE" happened in Germany as well. Which is the reason why the wheels got updated. And this update resulted in the Eschede incident. Newer ICE trains have a suspension.
@@tim_goll To clarify, newer ICE trains reverted back to old monoblock wheels, then have better suspension to compensate.
What company was doing the refitting?
EDIT: See now it was ABB.
I rode the X2000 demonstration to Dwight, IL it was incredibly smooth.
Who wants to go to Philadelphia fast?
Really enjoying your videos, Peter. The ones on the Portland highways were what caught my attention after years of wondering about the ramp stubs. Suggestion for a future video: the Oregon Electric commuter Railway. Oh and I like the X2000
Thanks, Andrew! Oregon Electric is actually on my list of possible future videos. I've also considered doing one that covers all of Portland's interurban lines, with Oregon Electric being one of the 5 different networks (if I remember correctly).
Exellent video. I had no idea about the national tours. Fascinating!
Totally vibing the 80's background music...keeps the energy up while watching the documentary..
Love this video!! Now you need to do one on the Cascades line in the PNW and the uniqueness of the Talgo train set. I toured one in 1994 at the Everett station. I believe I rode it to Seattle as well. I have a newspaper clipping where I’m in one, I think.
Thanks! The 1994 Talgo tour is actually on my list as a tentative sequel to this video. It came on the heels of the X2000/ICE tours and shared a lot of similarities. I don't know exactly when I'll get around to it, but it may happen this year, we'll see. :)
6:52 for those new to the Railfan community, that locomotive is specifically called a "Power car". As most multiple unit trainsets have locomotives at each end, which are called "Power cars"
Finally someone is pronouncing ICE properly!
Wow, that was fascinating I never new the story of US high speed rail apart from the Adela train itself. Great video very well scripted with great footage.
Very enjoyable watch Peter, thanks for your good work & detailed graphics. Great choice of backing music, thank you for compiling in the description.