I think the kids did the silly routine because they don't want to offend the grown up and risk being shamed. i think maybe humans have a higher need to be socially accepted even if it means doing things that are silly and nonsensical.
100% the chimps are out smarting the kids, how tf does a stick tapping a box do anything. No offense but they shoulda used more than just 2 kids, cause at that age I think I could have figured it out they are probably low IQ children imo
It's only a fair experiment if the adults didn't verbally communicate with kids but purely just demonstrate as they did with the chimps. Language and tone are very suggestive. The children are very aware of the context they are in and they are being monitored in some fashion so they better behave or appease the adult. Those chimps were probably already subject to some variation of sweet treat experiments/training so they expect the same with their context strongly fixed to the end goal - get the treat.
If I was the kid, I would also do the unnecessary tapping, because I always allow the possibility that there is something that I don't understand. For the chimps, they don't understand that they don't understand.
What no, you are literally just following authority and in hindsight giving an excuse to why you made the choice. Literally every human is a social animal, its not like its a bad thing for a child to trust adults like their parents or teachers for the most part.
Humans are, first and foremost, social learners. We teach each other things, but learning can only happen in an environment of trust. This is why children who are abused by those who are supposed to protect and care for them have poorer school performance and lower IQ's, lower educational attainment, and lower socioeconomic status in adulthood.
Humans tend not to cut corners. Here comes the division of labour/knowledge/expertise that is the backbone of human civilisation. Every human achievement is the fruit of collective effort and everybody is an expert in his/her own field. No man can possess all the knowledge needed to build a skyscraper, airliner, or even an electric kettle: it must be a collective effort of complimentary talents. Chimps are not capable of that and have to be smart every time and rely on their own individual reasoning, while humans are better off because they are able to ignore their own 'common sense' and blindly 'ape' the specialist(s) while doing only the bits they are proficient at. That is why we have civilisation and chimps don't.
Like another comment stated, I think it would've been nice to ask the kids to find an easier way to get the treat. they're just following instructions with an adult watching them, i wouldn't expect them to skip to the end. the chimps are very smart though nonetheless.
This video demonstrated a phenomenon called "over-imitation." Some psychologists suggested that over-imitation reflects an evolutionary adaptation that is fundamental to the development and transmission of human culture, i.e., in human societies, the way an action is performed is often more important than the fact that an action is performed. Seeing paper: journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797610368808
Further evidence of the cognitive superiority of our Great Ape cousins: ua-cam.com/video/zsXP8qeFF6A/v-deo.html The only thing that saves us is a gene mutation that gives us our ability to communicate, and thus accumulate and pass on knowledge.
For the Chimp it is all about the treat. For humans it is all about the process. Humans do what they know will work and learn the processes first then try changing it later. They do not take a chance on the out come being different if they change the process. I saw a test where they used rakes to get a treat. At first they did about the same about 50/50 but when the human child was shown to flip the rake over they would get the treat 100% of the time because they wee focused on the process, where when the chimp was shown it still was 50/50 because they were focused on the treat.
@@dennisbowen452 yep, just imagine if they had the same strength as an adult or even juvenile chimp. all those tantrums and hitting or biting incidents would quickly turn potentially lethal lol
I've gone over this repeatedly in my mind...trying to grasp the underlying WTF response. Does this suggest that humans are innately stupid? Not necessarily...I do think there is a valid argument to the claim that humans are clever but not very bright...but this study suggests something else. After hours of wrenching my mind open wide enough to see past my personal bias, I put it in perspective of all our other 'failings' at birth...our inability to walk or swim at birth, for example. It dawned on me that this study reflects just how undeveloped our brains are at birth...relative to the thought that we are essentially born significantly pre-mature in order to fit our brains through the birth canal. Not only must we learn physical abilities that most other mammals are born with...but we must learn and develop critical thinking skills as well. Obviously, this is how superstitions arise...and may explain why, in the 21st century, we still believe in magic (weight loss, penis enlargement, lotteries, etc.).
But wait, do you have to poke the stick into the box??? what does stabbing the core of the box inside do lol? Looks like it worked. Wow that was amazing, they both imitated and knew what to do and even used its finger. You know, the kids are more brainwashed, they think its some game and are doing imitation, but the monkey is starving, older I bet, and is just using its dying courage to get that damn food out already. The kids are not, they have it too easy, just look at them all dressed and clean, the monkey is a POW DO YOU REALIZE THAT!? It's a Prisoner Of War (POW). It imitated, is that not GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU? More and diverse data, better body to manipulate tools/etc, and more compute lead to intelligence, that's it. You learn this the more you work on it. But you gotta feel like a POW to get where I got. I'm ruthless. Huh!!!!!! You gotta stop imitating and twist up what you learnt more.
No, I think it's just a game for the kid. The ape probably doesn't see the human as an authority figure as the kid does. A kid might not think he's allowed to get the treat, while the ape is like whatever gets me the treat I'm allowed to do.
Yeah that monkey needs to learn you cheat and your penis snipped off but you keep yours balls so the monkey is driven mad in holiness unable to ever release Such joy to see the monkey suffer
This clip is taken from a documentary Ape Genius. ua-cam.com/video/wg-mPjhCnc8/v-deo.html It was asking the question, why human and apes are so close in DNA, but we now rule the world. One argument was human-beings in the early age have tendency to mimic complicated procedures from adults in an accurate way. This behavior is even seen when obvious short-cuts exist as shown in the clip. The author argues that the tendency and ability to learn complicated procedures with no near utility may be an important factor setting human apart from apes.
Free-form thought is not taught in schools. Government has structured schools to rid you of individuality. You are brainwashed into a regimented capitalistic modern day slave system. Never question, just do. It’s true.
I find it hilarious that there are so many ego-driven comments from [humans] who want to defend our species as being superior. Get a grip. Animals are extremely intelligent in ways that are not comprehended by human beings. Be humble for once - you need it.
Don’t worry humans, most of you will live happily ever after when you die and go to your heavenly imaginary fluffy cloud kingdom where no chimps are invited; only special human beings.
Those were adult chimpanzees vs kids who lived like 7 years and all that time they were taught to follow the rules. That's also what schools teach us. Don't think by yourself, follow what's already given because it's for sure one right way to do it, no need for more.
2:20 opens up a possible alternative or indeed complimentary explanation to the one given in the video about why the children don't skip the needless steps. For the the children, it's *not* just about the treat. The children may derive a small amount of amusement from pushing and tapping, because it is similar to the types of toys that they play with already. Also, if you call it a game, then the children will understand that there are rules to follow, and will want to follow the rules to play the game correctly. In addition, humans are used to technology, and the idea that doing one thing can result in something completely different, and seemingly unrelated; eg. pushing a button on an elevator to make it go up. You can't see the process occurring, but you just learn what the cause and effect is. The researchers could have eliminated the above possibilities, by issuing a challenge: "If you can find an easier way, I'll give you a whole pack of gummy bears." This could set up a priority in their mind: "I could either play with this toy, and lose my reward, or I can focus my attention on getting another gummy bear, and ignore my desire to play with it." I'd be interested to see if that works. Another idea might be to ask the kids to offer an explanation for what they think the pushing and tapping actually does. I'd stake money on the fact that the most popular explanation (discounting "I don't know") will be variations of "it unlocks the door." And hence, we will have demonstrated that the children have a much deeper understanding of how the human world works than the apes do.
I agree. Alternatively they could have told the children this is an identical box to the black one. Get the treat out however you think would be easiest. Without further explanation. Otherwise you can't expect children who are taught to follow specific rules to do things differently while an adult is watching them.
This is so superficial. If someone really believes that this proves chimps are "smarter" than children, then one has absolutely no clue of what is going on here.
it's not an experiment of who is smarter. it just tells us the difference of humans and chimps. humans teach and learn from each other while chimps dont. that's behavioral difference. that's it. this also can be expanded into how religions are formed like how each person just listens to an authority figure (religious leader) and just follows them without question because we have this behavioral pattern of wanting to learn from someone above us, which supersedes all logic.
You know, normally you write what you perceive as wrong so people can react to it instead of "this is just so misleading". You are trying to educate people but all you do is saying "you are doing it wrong!". So please elaborate.
Perhaps because humans are taught to be superstitious and follow silly conventions by other human beings. Apes don't have silly things like rituals, superstition, religion. This sort of behavior is just children following rituals
You call humans silly, but it's their silliness that made them the apex predator of the planet and moved them into space while monkeys still claw out bugs from dirt to eat them.
A genetic predisposition for ritual and religion was programmed into our DNA by the extraterrestrial Annunaki that genetically engineered us from indigenous earth primates so we would be easier to control reverencing the Annunaki as Gods and Goddesses. We still sacrifice our labor and wealth to these long gone alien overlords as we did millennia ago when we were their slave labor and still ask them to "give us our daily bread" as though we didn't realize we're on our own. Some humans, through government and religion, have learned to make a tidy living off of this human weakness.
I think the kids did the silly routine because they don't want to offend the grown up and risk being shamed. i think maybe humans have a higher need to be socially accepted even if it means doing things that are silly and nonsensical.
100% the chimps are out smarting the kids, how tf does a stick tapping a box do anything. No offense but they shoulda used more than just 2 kids, cause at that age I think I could have figured it out they are probably low IQ children imo
who is here because of psychology
Who's been listening to Sean Carroll.
It's only a fair experiment if the adults didn't verbally communicate with kids but purely just demonstrate as they did with the chimps. Language and tone are very suggestive. The children are very aware of the context they are in and they are being monitored in some fashion so they better behave or appease the adult. Those chimps were probably already subject to some variation of sweet treat experiments/training so they expect the same with their context strongly fixed to the end goal - get the treat.
If I was the kid, I would also do the unnecessary tapping, because I always allow the possibility that there is something that I don't understand. For the chimps, they don't understand that they don't understand.
What no, you are literally just following authority and in hindsight giving an excuse to why you made the choice. Literally every human is a social animal, its not like its a bad thing for a child to trust adults like their parents or teachers for the most part.
Humans are, first and foremost, social learners. We teach each other things, but learning can only happen in an environment of trust. This is why children who are abused by those who are supposed to protect and care for them have poorer school performance and lower IQ's, lower educational attainment, and lower socioeconomic status in adulthood.
Humans tend not to cut corners. Here comes the division of labour/knowledge/expertise that is the backbone of human civilisation. Every human achievement is the fruit of collective effort and everybody is an expert in his/her own field. No man can possess all the knowledge needed to build a skyscraper, airliner, or even an electric kettle: it must be a collective effort of complimentary talents. Chimps are not capable of that and have to be smart every time and rely on their own individual reasoning, while humans are better off because they are able to ignore their own 'common sense' and blindly 'ape' the specialist(s) while doing only the bits they are proficient at. That is why we have civilisation and chimps don't.
Like another comment stated, I think it would've been nice to ask the kids to find an easier way to get the treat. they're just following instructions with an adult watching them, i wouldn't expect them to skip to the end. the chimps are very smart though nonetheless.
Interesting
201924061 Basnet boby
„For the chimps it’s all about the treat“ same.
its because we continually brainwash kids into obeying
This video demonstrated a phenomenon called "over-imitation." Some psychologists suggested that over-imitation reflects an evolutionary adaptation that is fundamental to the development and transmission of human culture, i.e., in human societies, the way an action is performed is often more important than the fact that an action is performed. Seeing paper: journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797610368808
Further evidence of the cognitive superiority of our Great Ape cousins: ua-cam.com/video/zsXP8qeFF6A/v-deo.html The only thing that saves us is a gene mutation that gives us our ability to communicate, and thus accumulate and pass on knowledge.
For the Chimp it is all about the treat. For humans it is all about the process. Humans do what they know will work and learn the processes first then try changing it later. They do not take a chance on the out come being different if they change the process. I saw a test where they used rakes to get a treat. At first they did about the same about 50/50 but when the human child was shown to flip the rake over they would get the treat 100% of the time because they wee focused on the process, where when the chimp was shown it still was 50/50 because they were focused on the treat.
One other difference is the children won't rip off the tester's faces if they can't get the treats.
You ever dealt with kindergarten children? Whew they little bastards
@@dennisbowen452 yep, just imagine if they had the same strength as an adult or even juvenile chimp. all those tantrums and hitting or biting incidents would quickly turn potentially lethal lol
monke do better
How tf did I get here
I've gone over this repeatedly in my mind...trying to grasp the underlying WTF response. Does this suggest that humans are innately stupid? Not necessarily...I do think there is a valid argument to the claim that humans are clever but not very bright...but this study suggests something else. After hours of wrenching my mind open wide enough to see past my personal bias, I put it in perspective of all our other 'failings' at birth...our inability to walk or swim at birth, for example. It dawned on me that this study reflects just how undeveloped our brains are at birth...relative to the thought that we are essentially born significantly pre-mature in order to fit our brains through the birth canal. Not only must we learn physical abilities that most other mammals are born with...but we must learn and develop critical thinking skills as well. Obviously, this is how superstitions arise...and may explain why, in the 21st century, we still believe in magic (weight loss, penis enlargement, lotteries, etc.).
Underrated comment
well said
This study shows how easily we can be manipulated.
That is why most people are irrational followers.
So it seems apes don't ape, humans ape.
apes don't ape, humans ape
But wait, do you have to poke the stick into the box??? what does stabbing the core of the box inside do lol? Looks like it worked. Wow that was amazing, they both imitated and knew what to do and even used its finger. You know, the kids are more brainwashed, they think its some game and are doing imitation, but the monkey is starving, older I bet, and is just using its dying courage to get that damn food out already. The kids are not, they have it too easy, just look at them all dressed and clean, the monkey is a POW DO YOU REALIZE THAT!? It's a Prisoner Of War (POW). It imitated, is that not GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU? More and diverse data, better body to manipulate tools/etc, and more compute lead to intelligence, that's it. You learn this the more you work on it. But you gotta feel like a POW to get where I got. I'm ruthless. Huh!!!!!! You gotta stop imitating and twist up what you learnt more.
Hahaha... What a butthurt storm in the comment section from humans convinced of their superiority.
No, I think it's just a game for the kid. The ape probably doesn't see the human as an authority figure as the kid does. A kid might not think he's allowed to get the treat, while the ape is like whatever gets me the treat I'm allowed to do.
True
Dinnapy someone who understandnsome kss belive and magic as well
Yeah that monkey needs to learn you cheat and your penis snipped off but you keep yours balls so the monkey is driven mad in holiness unable to ever release Such joy to see the monkey suffer
wrgg
dumbass goddamn humans. tools from birth.
This clip is taken from a documentary Ape Genius. ua-cam.com/video/wg-mPjhCnc8/v-deo.html It was asking the question, why human and apes are so close in DNA, but we now rule the world. One argument was human-beings in the early age have tendency to mimic complicated procedures from adults in an accurate way. This behavior is even seen when obvious short-cuts exist as shown in the clip. The author argues that the tendency and ability to learn complicated procedures with no near utility may be an important factor setting human apart from apes.
Free-form thought is not taught in schools. Government has structured schools to rid you of individuality. You are brainwashed into a regimented capitalistic modern day slave system. Never question, just do. It’s true.
I find it hilarious that there are so many ego-driven comments from [humans] who want to defend our species as being superior. Get a grip. Animals are extremely intelligent in ways that are not comprehended by human beings. Be humble for once - you need it.
Don’t worry humans, most of you will live happily ever after when you die and go to your heavenly imaginary fluffy cloud kingdom where no chimps are invited; only special human beings.
Go to the jungle find one chmpanzee give him a box and u will see the truth and not these fake videos
Those were adult chimpanzees vs kids who lived like 7 years and all that time they were taught to follow the rules. That's also what schools teach us. Don't think by yourself, follow what's already given because it's for sure one right way to do it, no need for more.
2:20 opens up a possible alternative or indeed complimentary explanation to the one given in the video about why the children don't skip the needless steps. For the the children, it's *not* just about the treat. The children may derive a small amount of amusement from pushing and tapping, because it is similar to the types of toys that they play with already. Also, if you call it a game, then the children will understand that there are rules to follow, and will want to follow the rules to play the game correctly. In addition, humans are used to technology, and the idea that doing one thing can result in something completely different, and seemingly unrelated; eg. pushing a button on an elevator to make it go up. You can't see the process occurring, but you just learn what the cause and effect is. The researchers could have eliminated the above possibilities, by issuing a challenge: "If you can find an easier way, I'll give you a whole pack of gummy bears." This could set up a priority in their mind: "I could either play with this toy, and lose my reward, or I can focus my attention on getting another gummy bear, and ignore my desire to play with it." I'd be interested to see if that works. Another idea might be to ask the kids to offer an explanation for what they think the pushing and tapping actually does. I'd stake money on the fact that the most popular explanation (discounting "I don't know") will be variations of "it unlocks the door." And hence, we will have demonstrated that the children have a much deeper understanding of how the human world works than the apes do.
Lord Sandwich very good points
I agree. Alternatively they could have told the children this is an identical box to the black one. Get the treat out however you think would be easiest. Without further explanation. Otherwise you can't expect children who are taught to follow specific rules to do things differently while an adult is watching them.
Actually kids are smarter. They know it worked before. There is no reason to risk anything. Specially if they have an adult's point of reference.
This is so superficial. If someone really believes that this proves chimps are "smarter" than children, then one has absolutely no clue of what is going on here.
it's not an experiment of who is smarter. it just tells us the difference of humans and chimps. humans teach and learn from each other while chimps dont. that's behavioral difference. that's it. this also can be expanded into how religions are formed like how each person just listens to an authority figure (religious leader) and just follows them without question because we have this behavioral pattern of wanting to learn from someone above us, which supersedes all logic.
You know, normally you write what you perceive as wrong so people can react to it instead of "this is just so misleading". You are trying to educate people but all you do is saying "you are doing it wrong!". So please elaborate.
The human brain doesn't fully mature until around 25 years of age.
Wrong an 8 year old would have done the test differently.
Perhaps because humans are taught to be superstitious and follow silly conventions by other human beings. Apes don't have silly things like rituals, superstition, religion. This sort of behavior is just children following rituals
You call humans silly, but it's their silliness that made them the apex predator of the planet and moved them into space while monkeys still claw out bugs from dirt to eat them.
Well human children are arguably dumber than most animal adults.
paxpacis2 So because humans, as a race, have been the most successful animal on earth(known to us), we can't have bad traits?
correct ,. they prefer copying over thinking for them self , this is a major flaw in humanity especialy in the age AI.
A genetic predisposition for ritual and religion was programmed into our DNA by the extraterrestrial Annunaki that genetically engineered us from indigenous earth primates so we would be easier to control reverencing the Annunaki as Gods and Goddesses. We still sacrifice our labor and wealth to these long gone alien overlords as we did millennia ago when we were their slave labor and still ask them to "give us our daily bread" as though we didn't realize we're on our own. Some humans, through government and religion, have learned to make a tidy living off of this human weakness.