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Yeah, I probably could have chopped sections out, but it is what it is. Both processes, even with various modifications are pretty tedious and boring, but I couldn’t find any decent comparisons online, so I figured I’d put this out there for people to form their own opinions about which would be appropriate for their application.

I’m used the dimensions from the Ford manual. The tram helps, but it can still be pretty challenging making sure you’re actually measuring from the center of the hole to the center of the hole on the opposite side.

I got mine from my father. It was his car, so I assume he got it shortly after buying the car in 1967. That said, I believe there’s a reproduction available on Amazon. Here’s a link to one I found a few minutes ago. www.amazon.com/Cougar-Fairlane-Mercury-Intermediate-Mustang-Detroit/dp/1791406319/ref=pd_sbs_d_sccl_1_1/132-6790794-6097326?pd_rd_w=kdQgR&content-id=amzn1.sym.f7f035a5-ff07-4412-8a3c-9301028ec36b&pf_rd_p=f7f035a5-ff07-4412-8a3c-9301028ec36b&pf_rd_r=X0SE9EZ3XQFS402ZJMCB&pd_rd_wg=hgeph&pd_rd_r=504c3c0f-f246-4d90-8e63-2b5fa9a27b17&pd_rd_i=1791406319&psc=1

@@67mustangcouperestoration thank you!

I actually got mine from my father. It was his car, so I assume he got it shortly after buying the car in 1967. That said, I believe there’s a reproduction available on Amazon. Here’s a link to one I found a few minutes ago. www.amazon.com/Cougar-Fairlane-Mercury-Intermediate-Mustang-Detroit/dp/1791406319/ref=pd_sbs_d_sccl_1_1/132-6790794-6097326?pd_rd_w=kdQgR&content-id=amzn1.sym.f7f035a5-ff07-4412-8a3c-9301028ec36b&pf_rd_p=f7f035a5-ff07-4412-8a3c-9301028ec36b&pf_rd_r=X0SE9EZ3XQFS402ZJMCB&pd_rd_wg=hgeph&pd_rd_r=504c3c0f-f246-4d90-8e63-2b5fa9a27b17&pd_rd_i=1791406319&psc=1

All the dimensions I’ve been using have come from the original maintenance manual from 1967. That being said, I really wish someone had an official dimensioned blueprint for where everything should be located, because the manual leaves a number of dimensions a bit vague. It doesn’t do a great job of identifying exactly which holes you are supposed to use for certain front end dimensions, which is super frustrating. That leaves quite a bit up to interpretation. I’d definitely recommend getting the car level to the height measurements in the manual before you remove or cut anything. Then use a plum bob to transfer all the key points to the floor. That makes measuring distances between those points so much easier.

@@67mustangcouperestoration yeah I agree, not sure why there isn't such a thing to simply this stuff, everyone I've spoken to just says to measure what I have as many times as possible lol

I’d recommend springing for a decent export brace, rather than one of the cheaper ones. The one I got from NPD is a no-name brand and it does not seem to be bent properly. It wants to over-torque the towers and was jacking up on the front of them. I couldn’t get it to stop doing it, so that’s why I ended up making my own temp brace in the video. I would have bought the Mike Maier one and just used it doing tower installation, because the quality looks better than any others I’ve seen, but for the money I just couldn’t justify it. I’m planning to build my own after the towers and aprons are squared away.

If you’re referring to the vertical pieces, those are some pieces of sheet metal I had made to help with aligning the various holes Ford uses as jig points. They make it easier to visually confirm that things are where they should be, so I didn’t have to keep remeasuring things over and over again.

Thanks. Moving the floor pan around can be pretty awkward for sure, but putting it in from the bottom will probably be fairly drama-free. Good luck!

I used the measurements provided in the service manual for 1967. The manual provides the height measurement from the datum plane below the car up to the forward upper control arm mounting hole. It also gives diagonal measurements from the idler arm mounting hole and steering box mounting hole to the upper control arm mounting holes. Those measurements should be taken from under the car, or projected down onto the floor, because the manual provides them in a drawing labeled “pan view.” It may be helpful to use a plum bob to mark those out on the floor. I believe a lot of people install an export brace before removing the tower and then use it as an alignment device for the top holes when installing the new tower. That should help with making sure the tower is angled properly.

The thought has crossed my mind a time or two, but I think I’m staying the course for now.

The problem I was having with the passenger side frame rail was that the two pieces that make up the frame rail were pinched too tightly together when it was welded at the factory, so the rail was too skinny. As a result, the forward floor support wasn’t touching on both sides, so I couldn’t weld it, because the gap was huge. Drilling out the spot welds and sliding the two pieces of the rail apart a little bit allowed me to get it back to the correct width and then I re-welded it.

No. I bought the floor pan before I had decided to install the inner rockers, so I just had to trim off the flanges along each side to make it work.

The brand was Atralife and I got it on Amazon, but I can’t find it on there now. I hadn’t heard of the brand before I bought it, but I liked that it had so many beams/lines available. It was about $125. It’s considered a 12 line level.

Thanks, I have my days! I’m trying to make some headway. I had shoulder surgery a few months ago, which slowed me down pretty good.

@@67mustangcouperestoration Happy to see you are recovering. Mustang theropy always helps. Looking forward to my first car show of the year on the 24th. Hope weather provides time to clean my stang up and so a couple small projects on it before then. Have new window regulators to install.

@@67Stang new regulators should be a nice upgrade. Good luck with the car show!

Thanks, I’ll have to check out your videos!

Yes. The convertible floor is not as wide, because the inner convertible rockers make the floor a few inches narrower.

I could go on and on about how inadequate the factory dimensions are. I’m not saying that the dimensions provided in the Ford manual are wrong, but some of them are measuring from features that are not ideal or their measurement seems to disagree with the drawing/graphic. It is especially inadequate if you are removing the front clip and forward floor supports at the same time. That being said, I have been using the Ford manual and a drawing I found on the ConcoursMustang.com site. I’m not sure it has any greater authority on what the dimensions should be, but they have added some additional labeling to try to make the drawing from the manual more understandable. I imagine they will have one for the 65 year model as well. I believe it’s referred to as the “Lasky drawing”. You should be able to find it by doing a quick Google search. As long as your front frame rails are intact, a new radiator support should just slip over the front the frame rail on each side and slip on until it bottoms out. If your forward aprons are still installed, the vertical surface of the radiator support should be able to be clamped to the forward flange of each apron. Then just weld it in. However, if your aprons are missing or need to be replaced, then I would say it would be helpful to level the car first, because the radiator support ends up being vertical after it’s installed and that is easier to confirm when everything is level.

Hopefully. I just don’t want to weld something in the wrong position and cause myself issues with the alignment or panel fitment.

Yeah, I may shoot Barry an email. I’d be curious if he uses any other reference points besides the diagonal dimensions and forward control arm mounting holes. Maybe there’s something else that helps confirm they are in the right place (FWD/AFT tilt angle, distance from firewall, height, etc).

@@67mustangcouperestoration He might also be able to take some measurements from his 68 coupe. If you need them I can do the same on my 67. It was in an accident on the front drivers side back in 71 so it might not be perfect though I have never had an issue getting it aligned.

@@67Stang I’ve searched the web a bit (and found varying answers), but do you happen to know how much lower the rear UCA bolt is vs the forward hole or what the factory angle is for the UCA mount? Dazecars site lists some “ideal” alignment specs for a car with the Shelby drop, but I didn’t know for sure if those caster and camber numbers actually correspond with the positioning of the shock towers.

@@67mustangcouperestoration I do not know those measurements. I can go and try to take some off my 67 if you want me to.

@@67Stang don’t worry about it yet. I’m working through a few more things, so I may be able to figure it out, but I’ll let you know if I hit a dead end. Thanks for the offer though.

Thanks, you too. I am pretty sure I can get the Shelby drop holes in the right location and orientation, but I’m still trying to work out the angle of the top of the towers, so the spring angle is correct. I will presumably overcomplicate it (initially at least), but I would like to figure out a way to make setting the tower angle easy, accurate and repeatable, since I’ll have to disassemble it all to prep for welding.

I’d love to see video footage of how they assembled the front ends at the factory. My gut says they probably just put the shock tower on top of the frame rail and then slid it up against a piece of sheet metal or wood that was cut to a given dimension and then spot welded it in place. It’d be fast, cheap, reusable, and probably meet the 1/8” accuracy requirement.

I would guess they had the wrong tap in the wrong bin and the guy just grabbed it and went to town. That or they just read the first numbers of the tap size and didn’t realize the thread callout was wrong. I’m just glad I caught it while I could actually see the threads from the backside and confirm them with a thread gauge. Otherwise, I probably would’ve thought it was bugged up and just ran a tap through it, which would have screwed it up worse.

@@67mustangcouperestoration Ya just lucky you found it. Would have been a real pain to deal with it afterwards.

That would be pretty cool. It would presumably have to be a torsion test of some sort. Wouldn’t be cheap to do it right though. I don’t think I’m going to install the convertible lower seat pans. I’m planning something a bit different at this point. I picked up some Global West tubular subframe connectors and I am thinking about designing some custom support tabs/beams to tie the subframe connectors into the bottom of the one piece convertible seat platform. My plan is a bit conceptual currently, but once I get the front end frame rails, torque boxes and aprons installed, I plan to start on the subframe connector install.

@@67mustangcouperestoration I saw a guy doing a talk about sub frame connectors and I found it quite interesting. He was giving the impression that most of them are not worth the money. He installs a stiffener inside the rocker mounted along the rocker back plate. He was saying that is what stops the car from twisting.

I may actually be doing something different under the car, rather than using the convertible lower seat pan boxes. I picked up some Global West subframe connectors and I am thinking about designing some custom support tabs/beams to tie the subframe connectors into the bottom of the one piece convertible seat platform. My plan is a bit conceptual currently. I will be trying to get the front end built and torque boxes modded first though. Unfortunately I had to get shoulder surgery a few weeks ago, so that’s slowed me down quite a bit for the time being. Sucks, because I really want to make some progress on the car.

Looking forward to seeing it if you post it?@@67mustangcouperestoration

Most of the front end sheet metal came from CJ Pony. The firewall is linked here: www.cjponyparts.com/firewall-assembly-1967-1968/p/M138/. The floor pan is from Kentucky Mustang. I don’t believe they have as large of an inventory as CJ Pony, but the items they have seem to be a little better quality, at least for the items I’ve ordered.

@@67mustangcouperestoration thank you!!!!!

It looks worse than it is. Unfortunately when you remove the entire floor and frame rails, there is nothing left to hold up the car, so straps are about the only way I could think of to support the car.

They are the parts they sell as “CJ Classics”. The quality seemed okay except for the tabs on the ends weren’t really bent fully, so they required some tweaking. Also the seat belt mounting holes were tapped to the wrong size thread, so that had to be fixed as well. So I am glad I added additional mounting holes for the seat belts as well. My guess is they’re probably manufactured in Taiwan, but now a days most replacement parts probably are as well.

Decisions on sequence can be tricky, because all the panels have to be welded back in, so in my case, I wanted to avoid welding a new panel to an old rusty panel that I’d have to replace later, so I tried to start “inside” the car and work my way out. I did the cowl pretty early in the process because I was concerned the body might flex if I didn’t at least have a solid cowl and firewall in place before cutting out the entire floor. In hindsight, if the front end is removed, running a single brace between the two front edges of the rockers would have been all that’s needed to retain the side-to-side dimension. I know some guys like to install the Dynacorn one-piece full floors, but I was apprehensive about spending the $3K and then have to figure out a way to suspend the entire body during installation. I would have also had to devise a way to get the new floor under the car by myself, which seemed like it could be pretty difficult. I don’t own a trailer, so I wasn’t sure how to get the floor into my garage because of the size of it. That’s why I deciding to do everything in smaller, more manageable pieces. A lot of what has determined my order of operation was the extent of the rot and the idea that certain parts/panels need to be removed to access other areas. I initially pulled the trans, motor, and rear differential, just to get them out of the way and lighten the body, which reduces the stress on everything else. With how much rot this car had, the extra weight of those items kept me from even jacking the front of the car, because the jack points couldn’t support the weight of the car. So after those were removed, along with the hood and fenders, I started removing/replacing in this order: 1. Removed upper and lower cowl. 2. Removed firewall. 3. Removed front portion of DS inner rocker. 4. Removed/Installed DS kick panel. 5. Installed front portion of DS inner rocker. 6. Installed firewall. 7. Installed lower and upper cowl. 8. Removed floor pan, transition pan, trunk pan, rear torque boxes and frame rails. 9. Replaced the rear portion of the DS inner rocker. (This is the portion that the rear torque box was attached to.) 10. Replaced tail panel, but didn’t weld it to the quarters yet, because those may be changed later. 11. Installed trunk/transition pan sheet metal (just vise gripped in place). 12. Installed rear frame rails. These are welded to the tail panel and rockers and the the trunk/transition pan are welded down to the rails. 13. Installed convertible inner rockers (this is just something I wanted to do to stiffen the body). 14. Installed floor pan. I’m currently still working on the front frame rail installation. I’ve got them temp installed right now and my measurements are pretty good, but I want to test fit the fenders before I weld them in. I need to know my door gaps are right. To do that I need the install the aprons. Unfortunately the aftermarket aprons I bought are garbage, so I’m going to use my old shock towers and aprons instead. I’ll just have to do more repairs. Once I get all that done, I plan to replace the rear window panel (the panel in between the trunk lid and rear window). Then I’ll presumably replace or repair both rear quarters and wheel housings. That’s probably way more info than you were asking for, but this is the sequence I’m using. Everything depends on the amount of damage/rust you happen to find along the way. Some can be repaired, while other panels may be easier to replace entirely.

@67mustangcouperestoration this is exactly what i was looking for, thank you so much! Which aprons did you get? Ill make sure to avoid them when i get to that point. I feel like i should buy the full floor pan but i dont really have anyone to help, so i plan on smaller, more manageable sections as well 🫡

@@BlindFoxXx515 I bought both forward aprons from Mustangs Unlimited before they went out of business. Those were labeled as Dynacorn, but the forward one where the battery tray is located was wrinkled really badly and looked like the sheet metal slipped during stamping. It was surprising that someone didn’t notice it before putting it in the box. I bought the two rear aprons from NPD. The flat upper surfaces where the fenders mount don’t have any of the mounting holes in them, so I’d have to put them all in myself, which shouldn’t be necessary. They are also supposed to have the outer edge of that upper surface bent downward, so that if stiffens that upper flange, but neither has that bend. It just seems like they cut a lot of corners making them. The passenger side rear apron also had a 2” long dent right in the corner. I’m not sure if it happened during shipping, but the box wasn’t messed up, so I’m thinking it was boxed up like that. In terms of quality and shipping, I’ve had better luck with Kentucky Mustang.

@67mustangcouperestoration Dang, thats some crappy luck! Thank you for the feedback! Looking forward to future content 🤙🤙🤙

What manual book are you using?

Yeah, I didn’t include it in this video, but the crossmember that attaches the two forward floor supports together is going to take some modification to make it fit flush to the floor/tunnel sheet metal. It’s too wide (from tabs to tabs) by almost 3/8” and it appears that the features out on the ends aren’t formed enough, so it’s making hard contact with both floor supports before it’s seated up inside the contour of the tunnel. Should be fun times getting it to fit properly.

I think the factory stamped panels were pretty accurate, but they were then assembled pretty much by hand, so that’s probably where the gaps come along.

@@67mustangcouperestoration Very true. I have also seen it said the quality often depended on the day of assembly with Fridays being the worst.