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bueny
Приєднався 19 лис 2023
Glove80 ergo keyboard and trackballs on chair mount
Chair-mount setup for Glove80 and double trackballs (ProtoArc EM03 and Adesso T50).
Переглядів: 3 892
Відео
Glove80 with Maltron-like curvature (lower thumb and higher index), chair-mounted
Переглядів 6644 місяці тому
I wanted to port two features of Maltron's keywell to the Glove80: lower thumb cluster, and more aggressively raised index columns. To effectively lower the thumb keys on the Glove80, I raised the ring and middle finger columns by 4mm, and added 4mm-thick leather palm pads to restore wrist neutrality. Index columns are raised by an additional 4mm (so 8mm in total) to make non-home positions eas...
Typing on ZSA Voyager with Ambients silent choc switches (35gf Twilight and 20gf Nocturnal)
Переглядів 5 тис.4 місяці тому
The new silent linear switches from lowprokb are much quieter than the regular linear switches (that they replaced). Clicky trackball button at the beginning for sound comparison. One of the MBK convex keycaps (space on the right thumb) interferes with the switch and is slightly noisier than the other keys.
Maltron L90 Ergonomic Keyboard (Cherry MX Black Linear switches)
Переглядів 1,4 тис.5 місяців тому
The Maltron L90 has a distinctive thumb cluster, where the inner thumb keys sit beneath the home row pinky-ring-middle-finger plane. This makes the top row / inner column index keys (qwerty R, T, G) much more pleasant to use in comparison with other keywell keyboards where the thumb keys are higher than the finger plane. Technically, higher thumb keys force a combination of radial/palmar adduct...
Typing on ZSA Voyager (Choc Pro Red, Purpz, and Pink switches)
Переглядів 6 тис.6 місяців тому
ZSA Voyager with a mixture of Choc V1 switches: Pro Red (35gf), Purpz (25gf), and Pink (20gf). In practical use, there is no audible difference between these switches on the Voyager. The Voyager as a unit is on the louder side due to flat metal plate and the echo chamber it forms with the desk surface when tented using factory pucks. The switches are arranged to be light on the weak fingers/pos...
Typing on MoErgo Glove80 split ergo keyboard (Kailh Choc V1 Pro Red linear switches)
Переглядів 2,7 тис.6 місяців тому
Typing Darwin's "The Origin of Species" (typelit.io) on the Glove80 split ergo concave keyboard. Kailh Choc V1 Pro Red linear switches. Camera angle is chosen to show both a top view (of the right hand) and a side view (of the left hand) of typing dynamics. Of note: Left hand is sitting on the palm rest, and right hand is floating. I have to place the left hand a bit more forward than the right...
Wireless split ortho keyboard setup using two numpads
Переглядів 8 тис.7 місяців тому
A budget-friendly wireless split ortholinear keyboard setup using two numpads. Tested this in part to see how a strictly ortholinear layout compares with column stagger, particularly in terms of thumb key placement. Hid Macros, www.hidmacros.eu, is used to remap both numpads in Windows. Hardware remappers exist for a more permanent solution. The most challenging part is actually finding numpads...
Royal Kludge split keyboard RKS70 with inverted halves (Factory linear switches)
Переглядів 2,9 тис.7 місяців тому
A quick typing test on the Royal Kludge S70 with factory linear switches. Monkeytype.com. The Royal Kludge S70 is perhaps the most budget-friendly ready-made wireless split keyboard on the market right now. Being a split slab, it does not have additional thumb keys often seen on higher end ergo keyboards. In keeping with its name, I inverted the left and right halves (using the left hand half w...
Typing practice on ZSA Voyager split ergo keyboard (Choc v1 Sunset tactile switches)
Переглядів 7 тис.9 місяців тому
Typing practice on the Voyager keyboard, a split column-staggered ergo keyboard. Choc v1 Sunset switches. Text excerpt from Darwin, The origin of species, using typelit.io.
Typing practice on MoErgo Glove80 split ergo keyboard (Choc v1 Pro Red linear switches)
Переглядів 4,3 тис.9 місяців тому
Typing practice on the Glove80 keyboard, a split keywelled ergo keyboard. Choc v1 Pro Red switches. Text excerpt from Darwin, The origin of species, using typelit.io.
Love your crazy setups 😊 since you’re a trackball user, would love it if ZSA could add a trackball like the keyball44.
A modular trackball would be a great addition! Although, it seems thumb balls are the easier ones to fit, which is unfortunate for finger ball users such as myself.
I have noticed that your are typing very confident, without errors. That is unusual. Most people do make way more errors. How did you practice to type without errors, but still get over 100 wpm? I would appreciate any input or tips on that very much! 🙂
Thank you for your comment. After making a layout switch last year, I found it useful to practice on longer words (English 10k on monkeytype), and focus on accuracy instead of speed (slow down when you sense a mistake is about to happen). Shorter words become significantly easier afterwards. You can also try the "read ahead" technique, where you try to read beyond the next space to even out the tempo and improve flow (it's less useful when you are not in typing test or other transcribing mode).
@@bueny52 Thanks a lot for your reply. This is very helpful. Did you still try to speed up your typing in that process or just focus on accuracy? I was practicing mostly short words, because they are most common. But it is a good point to "overpractice" and gain in that process also more confidence on shorter words likely!
@@nickgoogle4525 Yes I did try to speed up over time, but not right when practicing. I find it more helpful to target a constant, steady typing flow than bursts of speedy word(s) interspersed with mini breaks (particularly if they yield the same wpm on average).
is there any difference between pro reds and ambients regarding to smoothness or feeling?
The pro reds have a bit more rattle horizontally. The ambients also feel slightly softer when bottoming out (but could be an illusion from them being quieter)
Absolutely genius
what the fuck
Do you always angle the keyboard like that? It seems the column rows then go across your fingers.
I do tend to align the columns fanning out to make the thumb keys and the central index columns more accessible, but it's also due to stagger between the middle and the index columns a bit too aggressive on the Voyager (for me), and the outward rotation balances that out to a degree (making middle and index home keys more level)
@@bueny52 thanks, interesting!
How did you attach it to the chair. Can you make a video about that?
It will depend a lot on what chair you use. Moosy (a fellow glove80 user) assembled a lot of useful information on mounting and covered the implementation used here as well, have a look: sites.google.com/view/keyboards/hardware/mounting
dude, I'm dying to know how you did it! Must make a video how to make it man
These are just regular numpads. The challenge is to find software that is able to map the two numpads differently (because they produce the same keycodes, and typical remapping softwares don't distinguish between the same keycode from different devices). I documented how to achieve this in the video description.
The annoying keyboard obsessed coworker or the fastest data entry in the division. Great test, very helpful.
Interesting. What are the results?
I like the raised index columns better than before, but I'm also limited by the intrinsic curvature (which makes it difficult to e.g. further raise the keys without them clashing into each other). The slight wrist supination introduced by the raised index keys does also alter the feeling of the palm rest. Personally it feels like a good compromise, but YMMV
Can't believe they still haven't done a hot swap and VIAL/QMK programming. I see a Datahand story all over again. Such a shame.
Indeed. Although I've heard that Maltron is mostly a one-person shop now (could be a rumor), so I can understand if they don't want to change anything that ain't broken
@@bueny52 Yes a small operation but so much potential as they are the OG. It is no secret that Kinesis copied their design. Safe/stagnation = slow death in the tech space.
bro...... this is wild hahahahaha
I am not sure this is actually legal. so I am calling FBI
LOL international waters brother
Not real😂
Thanks, that shows that the default thumbcluster is a miss on the Glove80, indeed too high to be comfortable!
Yeah, the thumb cluster height is a complicated issue. It's definitely lower than e.g. the Kinesis Advantages, but feels slightly higher than flat (like resting your hand on a desk surface), although the latter is not really fair given the 3d nature. I got cramps on the KA I tested due to thumb cluster height, but no cramps on the unmodded Glove80. I wasn't able to pinpoint what exactly felt "off" with the Glove80 until after I used the Maltron which has very aggressively raised index columns. My current conclusion is that it is perhaps more important to raise the index keys than to lower the thumbs (that's to say, the thumb can be higher than mid/ring/pinky, as long as its lower than or neutral with the index).
do the slowmo and explpain to proof its not fake
Number keyboard 👀
Sounds amazing. Way better than the stock browns I got. Also what layout are you using? Looked like very little movement from home row.
Indeed the Ambients are incredibly quiet. I'm using a modified Maltron layout, bit.ly/mtrino
this is really interesting, i'm thinking of designing a split keyboard PCB (never built a keyboard before) and was wondering if just making a generic ortholinear numpad sized layout would be simpler than trying to customise for each hand. also more versatile as can be used as a numpad, macro pad etc.
If I can only change one thing about the strictly ortholinear layout, I'd make the two main thumb keys (one per side) 2u keys (and optionally rotate them slightly).
Great habilities! Would you mind on giving me your opinion on this keyboard, please? Do you have a review in your channel?
I don't have a review of it, but the RK split remains the most affordable pre-built hot-swappable wireless split keyboard (around 80 to 90 usd when on sale). If you come from the traditional row-staggered keyboard and want to try out true split without adjusting to column stagger, this would be the top candidate IMO. For perspective, something like the Dygma Raise would cost you around 400 usd (with wireless, without tenting), with the only benefit of 4 additional thumb keys.
@@bueny52 Thank you very much for your videos and for thanking the time for responding, I really appreciate it.
This might work even better with generic ortholinear 24-key (6x4) macropads, which can be found on Amazon or Aliexpress.
I had the same thought and looked hard on aliexpress, but eventually (reluctantly) chose the numpads instead because macropads are usually more expensive (even the generic ones), and the cheaper ones also don't have wireless. The only benefit for going with macropads is their programmability (and hot swappability if you go with the more premium ones), but given that the two halves don't talk to each other, the usefulness of programmability is limited (e.g., can't get hold-tap layers to work properly across both halves). I'd definitely look harder at the macropad option if I were more serious about the setup (and ready to shell out for the more premium ones, which when combined may not be much cheaper than a bona fide split keyboard).
@@bueny52 You can get them for around $/€ 35 ~ 40 (or cheaper) per piece, if you look around. As you said, there won’t be any cross talking (for extra shift layers), but they can be found with RGB. If you are really crazy, you could even use 2 Stream Deck XLs, but that would be extremely expensive (ZSA Moonlander territory) while the tactile feel and ergonomics (with the stands removed would be marginally okay at best. However, you would gain changeable legends (because screen) and the ability for cross talking as the Elgato software supports multiple devices at once, all affecting eachother, if desired.
Haha, a pair of stream decks is crazy. I wonder if we'd ever get a keycap technology with display (such as e-ink)
You'll need the whites if you want to hear your typing well over the cicadas.
LOL best sales pitch for choc whites!
So you made a keycap extender to make it more like dactyl. Interesting. Also another prove to my conclusion that glove80 is just a crazy oversized keyboard for one in a million people with gigantic hands, who somehow also care about ergonomics.
I appreciate the thoughts, but I'm not sure that's an accurate characterization. Most of the dactyls I've seen (though I've not used one) don't have the main thumb key lower than the home position of the index finger (which is the effect I'm going after with the switch raisers, and which, IMO, only Maltron got right). The OG dactyls have thumb keys similar to the Kinesis Advantage (very different from Maltron's in real use, though appearing similar on first top-down glance), and the manuforms additionally reorient the thumb key direction to make pressing more of an inward motion than in the up-down direction. I've looked at dactyls /manuforms multiple times and decided against getting one because of the thumb key height and orientation. Regarding the size of the glove80, yes it has more keys than most of the ergomechkeyboards, but in terms of typing experience, it actually feels more compact than, say, the ZSA Voyager (due to choc vs mx spacing and curved vs flat layout).
@@bueny52 Well yes. Most Dactyl forks has some weird thumb cluster placement.But from what I can tell you are someone familiar with modelling \ 3d printing, and doesn't mind keyboard looking diy or iffy. So it shouldn't be hard for you to fix \ remade thumb cluster placement. I myself is in the process of choosing the right placement & orientation for a thumb cluster by using two separate shell pieces as to not reprint the whole thing every time.
@@bueny52 Many forget Maltron is the original and kinesis copied it but needed to make changes to the design to avoid patent infringement (with a sub optimal result).
Amazing
what si the keylayout that you use cause i dont think that you are using qwerty. neither can i tell if you are using colemak, you press the j key (which if keylayout nerd knows) is least pressed.
You are right, I'm using a modified Maltron layout, bit.ly/mtrino
@@bueny52 Why don't you use something like colemak dh? That layout, seems fine but i dont think that its the best one. unless its made with maltron in mind then i see where it comes from. also how the hell is the guy assigning e as a thumb button?
Oh I can go on and on about layout design :D but long story short, Colemak is designed under a very different philosophy (regardless of whether or not to preserve the zxcv), so in the end it's about with which philosophy you resonate more (assuming both are well executed). The e on thumb comes from the original Maltron layout, but a letter on thumb seems to be picking up momentum in layouts designed for programmable keyboards.
why two trackballs?
Mostly for convenience (e.g. when working between two computers)
the short answer: pr0n
Wouldve been nice to see you use the trackballs
💀💀💀
Im at 150 wpm with normal, not sure how this is better
It's not better for wpm, more of an ergonomic improvement
Also, are you using a mount for the glove80? And how are you mounting the mouse? Please send links imma buy it rn
I'm using MoErgo's official quick release mounting plate. The arms are Pro Signal 1290B.
@@bueny52 thanks!
@@bueny52 What plate are you using for the trackball base?
It's a generic 100x200 vesa mount adapter
@@bueny52 Thank You!
Nice video bueny. Can you please tell me which switch are you using in this video. Also can you please suggest me which one to pick. I am confused between red and pro-red and because of this I have not ordered by Glove80 yet.
I'm using the Pro Red here. Both the (regular) Red and the Pro Red are linear switches but they have different activation forces, 35 Newton for the Pro Red, and 50 N for the Red. I haven't used the Red per se but have tried choc White which has the same 50 N force (albeit on a different keyboard), and I much prefer the Pro Red for its efficiency. I've also tried lighter switches (pink at 20 N and purpz at 25 N), and while they are nice for the weaker fingers/positions (e.g., pinky, and non-home row ring finger), I still prefer Pro Red as the better all-arounder.
who are you
Regarding the sound: Did you lube the switches, use the tape mod, and/or neoprene layer mod? Thanks
No mod other than the official acrylic mounting plate. It's the factory sound signature.
Impressive. The red pros sound much quieter here than what I hear in other reviews
They definitely sound quieter and mellower on the Glove80 than on the ZSA Voyager. MoErgo said they did something to the pro reds shipped with their keyboard to make them different from the factory ones.
Subscribed. Great video.
This is the video which marked my descent down the ergo keeb rabbit hole lol
this is how the future looks like.
Are you using different keycaps on your thumbs? what are they?
Yes, those are the MBK convex from MoErgo
@@bueny52any particular reason for using concave caps? or just that it looks nice
@@lixingchen8293 I find these more comfortable for the thumbs. With cylindrical keycaps, the edge will cut into your thumbs if they are not aligned with the "tunnel" between the two edges.
There’s something about this sound test… I keep watching it over and over.
It must be the mythical ASMR
I love my voyager. These switches sound nice. May have to look into some.
Very interesting layout! I can't quite make it out. It seems the home row is RTNS HEAI, but the off home keys throw me. What is the layout?
Thanks for your interest. I'm using a modified Maltron layout, bit.ly/mtrino
My question is which layout (qwerty, colemak etc) did you use
I use a modified Maltron layout, bit.ly/mtrino
This is insane. I like it 🔥🔥
I’m new to switches, why did you use both twilight and nocturnal at the same time? Did u keep twilight switches for the alphabet and nocturnal on the sides due to their lower actuation force?
Yes, I use the nocturnals on weaker fingers/positions where it's less likely to misfire.
@@bueny52 I do not understand that, the lighter nocturnals are more likely to misfire...!?
@@nickgoogle4525 I meant misfire (for me) is less likely on weaker fingers (e.g. pinky) than on stronger ones (e.g. index), so I can afford to use lighter switches on weaker fingers without worrying too much about misfire
lovely, thank you. can't wait for my Voyager to arrive!
Hey thanks for the vid! I always wondered whether doing this was possible. Now i have another project in my sights!
Between the glove 80 and zsa voyager, I think I am starting to find more appeal in the voyager. It's so minimal and sleek. Another great video brother.
Both are excellent keyboard and have their own strengths. I use the glove80 as my main workhorse, and take the Voyager on travels (and experiment with new switches, of course ;)
Can still hear a tad bit of sound but wow
Are the nocturnal on the left and twilight on the right? It seems the right is more noisy. Which of the 2 do you prefer? I worry that the nocturnal would be too light for me, but it seems like the twilight are much louder if that’s them on the right.
Both the twilight and the nocturnal are on the left half, the right half has the regular linears (pro red, purpz, and pink) for comparison. Sound-wise I don't perceive any difference between the twilight and the nocturnal. I use the lighter ones (nocturnal and pink) on pinkies and other weaker spots. I haven't really had time to type on them yet but force-wise I'm expecting them to be more or less like the pro reds and pinks.
It doesn't help that the surface he's typing on sounds very resonant. Would be good to try on a denser surface (concrete or something). Although this is more true to real life scenario
In a way yes, but for a typical hard surface material, the resonance is more or less unavoidable because it is mostly due to the triangular chamber created between the metallic backplate and the desk surface, by Voyager's tenting legs. So it _is_ a more faithful reflection of real life scenario as you pointed out. (And with that in mind, it's even more impressive what the Ambients achieved)
@@bueny52 oh, that's great that they both sound the same. One of my biggest issues with the Voyager is that it's too loud for the office I work at, so I'm going to have to get some of these switches. Right now I am using sunsets and I like them, so I am interested in the sunrise as well.
Hi there. Would you be able to share the configuration files and instructions for setup? Any more thoughts on this flipped mode if operation?
You need the official driver for remapping to be saved on the keyboard. It's a GUI so a bit tedious to remap every key. I don't have the config file but it won't be useful to you anyway since I'm using a non-standard letter layout. If you only need host-side remapping (which you'll lose when moving to a different computer), I use AutoHotKey on Windows. You can download the official driver at en.rkgaming.com (menu->download, then scroll to the bottom for the "FULL Software" entry). Note that some of the Fn functionalities (such as backlight, connectivity mode, etc) are hard coded to the physical Fn key, even though the software allows you to give it a different role such as a different letter (you'll end up triggering both the new function and the Fn behavior if you do that)
Why aren't you more famous?
This is the greatest point of view I have had for a typing video. Loved the armrest mounts and loved the camera placement.
I'm glad the finer aspects didn't get lost. Appreciate the appreciation!