Відео

That's the point

Surface

グールドの演奏はお嫌いですか？ 他にピアノで弾いている演奏家はペライアさんがいますね、軽い演奏で重厚ではないですが…

still horrible, but at least it doesn't sound like a psycho-acoustics experiment on how much you can isolate musical events until a human brain cannot follow a melodic line any longer...

Curati

@@matteogiorgetti858 Ehi, non hai più voluto seguire un dittatore senza nemmeno pensarci, tu che hai inventato tante orribili ideologie? Ah, no, continuano allo stesso modo, ripetendo come pappagalli senza senso critico quello che gli viene servito da bambini... ah ah. Che bello essere nato nel nuovo mondo, dove essere un idiota senza personalità è disapprovato.

Presumably they couldn't afford a camera in 1953.

@@wannabecat369 ua-cam.com/video/lvIMAGE3bv4/v-deo.html 1936?

A very fine comment, that is the sad truth. It is horrible the way they played before the "early music" revolution, but they rebelled only to become a new dogma on how to play that music (a bit like the pigs in Orwell's farm), that is resistant to further examination, with certain players revered as gods... So all in all, we have to be grateful that we can now listen to this music at least with somewhat the right colors, still there is a lot that remains to be done, and with the bunch of thick-skulls that are now the establishment of "early music", any change will be much resisted.

I love this tempo. Some conductors rush through Bach as if it were a time race. There are limits to the speed of certain instruments they used. Harpsicord can be very fast, but the violonist had to tighten the bow with his fingers while playing.

@@claranimmer7349 You say a foreign culture,... I would say a decayed culture, Europe is on a steep decline if you compare what it was capable of in the XVII - XVIII centuries to XX or XXI. Bach's music deserves to be played sooooo much better than this. Let me focus on one aspect only: the rhythm. A culture of dancers as was that of Bach, in which people felt the rhythm very deeply, had been destroyed. And this sort of rhythmic blandness is only possible for people that don't feel rhythm with their bodies, that have a disjointed body - soul relationship.

@@pablojlascano8322 I said nothing about a foreign culture. Nobody witnessed how this music was played.

@@pablojlascano8322 Perhaps true, but Furtwangler indeed feels this rhythm very well! Even better than a lot of historically informed performers. If you object to the dynamic, tempo, articulation or instrumentation; I will accept all of those as fair points of argument, but to say that this performance lacks a sense of rhythm is problematic.

@@wannabecat369 I just had a conversation with a Caribbean born percussionist who started studying at one of Europe's top conservatories, he couldn't believe the total lack of basic rhythmic skills of both the fellow students, and the professors... and that is at the "percussion" department, imagine strings etc... They cannot play convincingly even a passage with some slight syncopation. Reminds me of a story they use to tell, about people living on a plane field not believing someone who told them the world was in 3d. This performance lives in 2d musical world where the rhythmic dimension doesn't exist...

D’accord! 👌🏻

Because seventy years ago Bach was performed differently by virtually everyone. It was a different century, you know. 🐧

No, he brings it back to life. Bach with a human soul, not generated by a computer on out-of-tune "authentic" instruments.

@@VivaRenata That people can also murder Bach on period instruments, you don't need to tell me. But this tempo is just ridiculous. BTW, I have listened to Bach played badly by "specialists" and the bunch who hates them, and in general specialists do a far better job.

@@VivaRenata I have the feeling people playing with gut strings have better pitch accuracy than the "modern" violinist with shrill metal strings using a vibrato that oscillates a whole-tone. But I don't really care about that, what I hate about how classical music (meaning Western art music) is played nowadays is the horrible, horrible rhythmic accuracy, or rather lack thereof. Classical musicians have in general a great sense of pitch, melody, etc., but they are in kindergarten in terms of rhythmic accuracy, if you compare to musical cultures in which rhythm is put to the fore.

@@VivaRenata And last, you might despise the idea of using "authentic" instruments as you put it, and I am far from being dogmatic about the so called "authentic" things, because I know then only too well to defend them. But one thing is undeniable, the right instruments create the right harmonics, for which the music was composed, and you can ONLY understand it fully if you do so. I have played Bach on piano and harpsichord, and I can tell you, Bach sounds so dull on the piano, all the harmonics are missing, and dissonances sound far less poignant. The amazing thing about Bach's music is that it is still great even badly played on bad instruments, so if you want the watered-down version of his music, where dissonances don't sound even half as powerful, feel free to keep on listening to that... I remember first time I played the pieces I learned on the piano on the harpsichord I felt as if changing from and old BW tv to full color.

Well, there are no "urtext" tempi, but even a 5 year old will notice the tempo of the first movement isn't right... how can you play it so slow, that the four sixteenth note groups begin to sound like a whole bar...

@@pablojlascano8322, great Furtwängler. Absolutely legitimate. See also Kirsten Flagstad "im Abendrot". TBkPPCsjqZI

​@@pablojlascano8322 I think it's just nice to hear people play things differently. No need to adhere to the score all the time

@@agustinusbravy5401 I couldn't agree any more with the "adhere to the score" part, but it is a whole different matter here. First of all, there are no "urtext" bpm markings (apparently someone did record exact tempi for Lully opera pieces but the information got lost anyways). It is not that I am defending a purist point of view, it is just that playing this even slower than a practice tempo doesn't make any sense. Do whatever you want with the music, but it has to work, a tempo that disrupts the musical discourse doesn't do justice to this great piece.

麻生浩 あなたはブラスバンドで学校に行くのが最も幸運でした。 オーケストラもありましたか？

Zane, give the listeners an explanation, tell us why this is awful, thank you.

Guillaume Pirard thank you, i hope you're right

You passed the test, congratulations

@@pablojlascano8322 I don’t think it’s justified to speak of murder. Regardless of what you think of it, and regardless of whether Furtwängler’s music is appropriate for conveying Baroque style, he unequivocally brings the music to life. Take into consideration that the historical, emotional and personal background of this performance is far remote from ours today, and it is very questionable to consider our perspective ‘better’ than his. Taruskin is an absolutely brilliant mind, I cannot recommend reading him strongly enough.

Bona Pona, I am sorry for my inadequate English. "NEVER too slow." If you are talking about your own taste, it is ok. But if you are talking about this performance in a historical context, you are not right.

@@geiryvindeskeland7208 My point is that he grasped the essence of the music of J.S.Bach.

I'm sorry but there is no actual historical basis for playing this faster. We cannot know the composers intentions. Faster recordings of this piece come as a result of a modernist aesthetic and historical accuracy has very little if anything to do with it. I actually prefer these faster recordings on period instruments. But to claim that these performances are more accurate to Bach's intentions was is unfounded.

Sion Edwards, interesting comment. What about "tempo ordinario"? You make the statement that tempo ordinario is not any guide to get closer to "right" tempi? About the first movement in this performance: I am tempted to believe that if there wasn't any harpsichord part, the pace would be faster. Furtwangler prove that he struggling in the cadenza. At 12.02, the demisemiquavers is like semiquavers. But suddently, at 12.42, he play the rest of the cadenza closer to the pace from the beginning of the cadenza.

@@geiryvindeskeland7208 @Sion Edwards I'm sorry for my poor English. My thoughts are similar to those of Roland Barthes. So it's better to read his text than my poor English. e.g. "The Death of the Author"