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Breaking Down Earned Revenue for Smarter Agency Decisions w/ Ben Zittlau: Agency Profit Podcast #166
** FREE DOWNLOAD** The Agency Profitability Toolkit
parakeeto.com/toolkit
Get the templates, formulas and frameworks we've used with our consulting clients to help them double their profitability in under 60 days, absolutely free.
For more information on our Agency Profitability Systems and Consulting, check out parakeeto.com
Love the podcast? Leave us a review on the platform of your choice!
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About this Episode
In this episode of the Agency Profit Podcast, Marcel Petitpas welcomes his business partner and co-founder, Ben Zittlau, to unpack the hidden traps that service-based businesses often fall into when managing their profitability. They explore how relying too heavily on cash flow or revenue as indicators can lead to misguided decisions, like overestimating profitability or taking on unprofitable work. Ben and Marcel emphasize the importance of focusing on true metrics like agency gross income (AGI) and delivery costs, rather than being misled by how services are packaged or presented to clients. By separating operational, accounting, and sales perspectives and using clear frameworks, agencies can make smarter decisions and better plan for sustainable growth. It’s a conversation full of practical insights for anyone looking to better understand and optimize their business finances.
Points of Interest
01:00 - 01:50 - Episode Kickoff and Guest Introduction: Marcel introduces Ben Zittlau, his co-founder and the “brains behind the operation” at Parakeeto, highlighting Ben's instrumental role in shaping the company’s philosophies and tools.
01:51 - 04:25 - Ben’s Background and Early Career: Ben shares his journey from studying electrical engineering to becoming deeply involved in startups, entrepreneurship, and eventually co-founding Parakeeto, along with his notable work at Jobber.
04:26 - 06:44 - Lessons from Jobber and Shaping Profitability Frameworks: Ben reflects on his time at Jobber, where he observed how businesses transformed when they understood profitability over revenue, a realization that shaped Parakeeto’s focus.
06:45 - 07:22 - Parakeeto’s Founding and Evolution: Ben discusses how he and Marcel connected over their shared passion for solving complex problems for service businesses, leading to the creation of Parakeeto.
07:23 - 08:35 - Behind-the-Scenes Collaboration: Marcel highlights the depth of thought and iteration that he and Ben have poured into refining their profitability frameworks, setting the stage for their discussion.
08:36 - 11:34 - Common Profitability Traps in Agencies: The duo dives into how agencies often fall into traps like relying on cash flow or revenue as proxies for profitability, leading to poor business decisions.
11:35 - 14:14 - The Pitfalls of Cashflow-Based Decision Making: Ben and Marcel explain how focusing on cash flow can create illusions of profitability or mask underlying financial issues, illustrated by real client examples.
14:15 - 17:04 - Revenue vs. Profitability Decisions: They highlight how agencies often conflate cash flow with profit, sharing examples of businesses choosing lower-margin work due to short-term cash needs.
17:05 - 19:57 - Differentiating Revenue from Agency Gross Income (AGI): Ben explains the importance of isolating pass-through expenses to get a true picture of what’s left for an agency to operate and grow.
19:58 - 23:17 - Misconceptions About Markup and Rates: The discussion shifts to how agencies often misunderstand the role of markup in profitability and why focusing on average billable rates is key.
23:18 - 30:45 - The Problem with One-Size-Fits-All Frameworks: Ben and Marcel emphasize the risks of trying to unify operational, sales, and accounting frameworks, advocating for purpose-built tools tailored to each team’s needs.
30:46 - 43:39 - The Future of Profitability Insights: They conclude by discussing how technology is making enterprise-level profitability analysis more accessible to smaller businesses, empowering agencies to make smarter, data-driven decisions.
Show Notes
Connect with Ben via LinkedIn - ca.linkedin.com/in/ben-zittlau
Free Toolkit - parakeeto.com/toolkit/
Parakeeto Foundations Course - parakeeto.com/Foundations-course-launch-offer
Переглядів: 32

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КОМЕНТАРІ

  • @CeewickBoss
    @CeewickBoss 9 днів тому

    Awesome 😎

  • @themusicosis
    @themusicosis 27 днів тому

    What an awesome conversation! It really got me thinking and craving for growth. Thanks both!

  • @kirtana_devatha
    @kirtana_devatha Місяць тому

    Love it. Thanks @marcel

  • @ranjithdoshi4764
    @ranjithdoshi4764 Місяць тому

    Came across your podcast and you alreary have 140 episode 😮 .. wow.. great work parakeeto !!

  • @John-k6e7i
    @John-k6e7i Місяць тому

    Thank you so much for this amazing video! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?

  • @jenbergren
    @jenbergren Місяць тому

    Kristen is awesome! Great insights!

  • @Jasonswenk
    @Jasonswenk 3 місяці тому

    Thanks for having me back on the show

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas 3 місяці тому

      Thanks for coming back on Jason! Always a blast chatting with you.

  • @successmarcel2020
    @successmarcel2020 3 місяці тому

    good one

  • @P51DFreak25
    @P51DFreak25 4 місяці тому

    Way till this guy looks at the auto industry 😂

  • @One-Two-T
    @One-Two-T 4 місяці тому

    I didn't understand the size examples, because why would those businesses have no management?

  • @One-Two-T
    @One-Two-T 4 місяці тому

    Forbes Top 30 Under 30 is a red flag. Info in the video is great tho. :)

  • @pranjaldoorwar9743
    @pranjaldoorwar9743 5 місяців тому

    What a gem of podcast!

  • @mihirrasal588
    @mihirrasal588 5 місяців тому

    wow this was so insightful. Bamboozled to see only 73 views. Love Liston's work and great questions by the interviewer

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas 5 місяців тому

      Glad you found this episode insightful! Liston is pretty awesome :)

  • @ethanfleming8896
    @ethanfleming8896 5 місяців тому

    2nd comment ha. But great video! Learning leadership with a new team now.

  • @mohamedalibekakria2358
    @mohamedalibekakria2358 5 місяців тому

    Am i the first view ?

  • @lanceprud
    @lanceprud 6 місяців тому

    As a Virtual Assistant, this is true. A lot ... About 80-90% of applicants are either new to the industry or doesn't have a particular skill set that you would be looking for. Being a Freelancer is super popular that's why a lot of people are desperate to get their foot at the door without realizing that they need to have certain skills to get the job done. From a Virtual Assistant to Entrepreneurs, my advise is to require certain tests (i.e typing tests, DISC, etc) or have interviewees present their portfolios. This would help you tremendously. Also, you have to factor in the behavior. I.e. does the VA meet deadlines, takes criticisms positively, etc. This can be observed in the first 90 days. Poor behavior leads to poor productivity. I have worked with a VA agency before. I was assigned from training VAs, Onboarding clients, and cross skilling VAs. We hire 8-12 VAs a week from a pool of 1200-1500+ applicants. Hiring the right VA can save you tons of time and money. We had clients that were able to open new businesses because their VAs were doing most of the work for them. You have a great weekend!

  • @mattbodnar
    @mattbodnar 6 місяців тому

    Thanks so much for having me on the show! Really enjoyed the conversation!

  • @HeyJoeyTackett
    @HeyJoeyTackett 8 місяців тому

    Thanks so much for having me on the Podcast. We had such a great and deep conversation here, so I am excited for people to hear it!

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas 7 місяців тому

      Loved having you on the show @HeyJoeyTackett thanks so much for making time for us :)

  • @cliffardgerber3830
    @cliffardgerber3830 8 місяців тому

    What is wrong with yt?. Complete random bs in my feed

  • @amenostalgique
    @amenostalgique 8 місяців тому

    Excellent interview !

  • @amenostalgique
    @amenostalgique 8 місяців тому

    good stuff !

  • @cdropbox
    @cdropbox 9 місяців тому

    wow!!!

  • @totally_focussed8794
    @totally_focussed8794 9 місяців тому

    Yapsville wants there president back 🗣🗣 Please shut up ur using way to many buzz words you sound so stupid 😂😂💀💀

  • @germaynehawthornthwaite4391
    @germaynehawthornthwaite4391 10 місяців тому

    ❤️ "promosm"

  • @damielumsden2014
    @damielumsden2014 11 місяців тому

    Great info! thank you!

  • @cdropbox
    @cdropbox 11 місяців тому

    nice

  • @craigs.codycpa1068
    @craigs.codycpa1068 11 місяців тому

    Thank you for having me and allowing me to share.

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas 11 місяців тому

      Thanks for coming on the show Craig!

  • @One-Two-T
    @One-Two-T 11 місяців тому

    Could another word for "average billable rate" be "delivery rate"?

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas 11 місяців тому

      You can call it whatever you want, as long as the math is consistent. Unfortuantely, there aren't any "standard" terms for these tings. We're working on writing a book and trying to formalize it, but you will likely see a lot of different language used to describe these types of concepts.

  • @One-Two-T
    @One-Two-T 11 місяців тому

    The problem I ran into is that people don't record all their time or use the same conventions, but the number of 2080 available hours is fixed. So...I guess I'll calculate their utilization rate as the proportion of time they spent on client projects divided by the total amount of time they recorded. Or something.

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas 11 місяців тому

      I don't recommend basing utilization on the amount of time recorded for exactly the reason you mention, you're probably not going to get consistent compliance on people logging all of their time. Therefore, the basis for utilization won't be consistent and will make it hard to measure changes in utilization over time, it also creates the risk of false positive or false negatives. For example, you might think someone's utilization is very high, but it's just because they're not logging much of their non-delivery time, therefore making the basis of their utilization a smaller number than someone else. By using total capacity, we normalize the basis for utilization which makes it easier and less expensive to calculate over time, and makes it easier to calculate for different time periods. The other added benefit is that it becomes more accurate, as we're not trying to adjust it down for things like non-billable time, time off, holidays, etc. We are able to see the cost of that non-delivery time reflected in the utilization metric and again avoid the potential false negatives/positives that could be associated with someone's utilization appearing to move up or down, simply because of an increase or decrease in time-off (for example)

  • @clarencereel
    @clarencereel Рік тому

    I see videos like this with poor advice but this actually sounds like a great plan

  • @getparakeeto
    @getparakeeto Рік тому

    Grab Mandi's new book here: www.amazon.com/Hands-Off-CEO-Profitably-Exceptional-Consulting/dp/B0CK3ZX3SN

  • @MarcAntoineDunais01
    @MarcAntoineDunais01 Рік тому

    Outstanding value. Amazed all this is provided FOC! Thank you

    • @getparakeeto
      @getparakeeto Рік тому

      Thank you Marc Antoine! Glad you enjoyed it :)

  • @zakirhoosen4404
    @zakirhoosen4404 Рік тому

    Lets start with the 12k for broucher website.. what's their client avatar for that? How are they getting those leads

  • @BUY_YOUTUB_VIEWS_g0g97
    @BUY_YOUTUB_VIEWS_g0g97 Рік тому

    suuupper creative video

  • @zakirhoosen4404
    @zakirhoosen4404 Рік тому

    The problem with the full hire, if these gaps exist, is that the "fire fast" mindset keeps them on the hamster wheel of new hires... as a consultancy we come in, help you refine your requirements that are going ro move the needle, and then deliver on that all while ensuring we fill gaps and bridge better understanding

  • @tanvirhassan2783
    @tanvirhassan2783 Рік тому

    Thanks for this! ❤‍🔥

  • @opzerco
    @opzerco Рік тому

    Loved this episode Marcel! Keep the solo episodes coming 🙏 Would love a deep dive on pricing models. Your agency pricing quadrant is a fantastic framework. Go deeper into the pros and cons of each model, what do you see the best agencies doing, etc.

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas Рік тому

      That's a great idea! Thanks for chiming in :)

  • @skylerreeves
    @skylerreeves Рік тому

    We recently cut back on the hours we work each week (we were way over 40) and throughput actually increased while cycle time decreased. I don’t know at what point things inflect negatively, but there’s definitely a point at which working too many hours doesn’t result in increased productivity.

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas Рік тому

      It sounds like what you effectively did was increased your ABR by decreasing the amount of time it takes to get deliverables done / increasing efficiency of the time you're putting in. Sometimes just applying the constraint is enough to push the team to figure out ways to get more done in less time.

    • @skylerreeves
      @skylerreeves Рік тому

      @@marcelpetitpas - That and we limited WIP. It reduced context switching and put the emphasis on finishing things instead of starting them.

  • @LionelJohnston
    @LionelJohnston Рік тому

    We partner with an agency and we can see our clients perception of this other agency. In short, our mutual client seems then as inaccessible, hard to work with, and that they don’t care. If this company was knocking it out of the park the client likely wouldn’t care, but when they are behind AND have limited accessibly the client doesn’t think it’s too cool.

    • @getparakeeto
      @getparakeeto Рік тому

      Certainly important to consider how to make this kind of move without degrading the client experience and to *earn* the right to move to this model by finding a way to achieve great outcomes with more efficiency.

  • @LionelJohnston
    @LionelJohnston Рік тому

    Great discussion. Really nice to hear how you’ve implemented your program. I’ve used this for subs but not employees but I really like it and could see moving to this. What other roles have pay based on the client? Where do graphic and web designers, writers, etc., fit in, for example? And, what functions are AMs managing?

  • @zakirhoosen4404
    @zakirhoosen4404 Рік тому

    so if you have a freelancer fulfilling the work will that be taken out to get to AGI

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas Рік тому

      Generally yes, but there are nuances and edge cases. For example, some agencies have "freelancers" who are retained for a certain number of hours per week on an ongoing basis and need to be utilized, in a case like this, assuming that freelancer is performing a "core"s service for the agency, it they may be considered a delivery cost. However, the generally acceptable starting point is to move freelancers, contractors and whitelabel partners to Pass-Through expenses and deduct from AGI.

    • @zakirhoosen4404
      @zakirhoosen4404 Рік тому

      @@marcelpetitpas thanks. Does this conflict with Profit first approach or can they work together?

    • @getparakeeto
      @getparakeeto Рік тому

      ​@@zakirhoosen4404 It's more of a continuation of the basic principles of Profit First. The basic principle with profit first (at the most fundamental level) is to work backwards from the net profit you want to have. We have the same view. Howver we have more specific and nuanced definitions of the different things that need to be measured thereafter that are specific to professional services firms, and go deeper on the other metrcis and levers to pay attention to that help you drive performance between financial touchpoints. Does that make sense?

  • @Sab-Capiz
    @Sab-Capiz Рік тому

    Great episode! 👏

  • @joshuagraham3497
    @joshuagraham3497 Рік тому

    Fantastic podcast! Nigel and Alpha Inbound are the real deal 😏

  • @connorkeegan3905
    @connorkeegan3905 Рік тому

    That means your a controlling manager that can’t let go?

    • @getparakeeto
      @getparakeeto Рік тому

      I think what Marcel is saying is that letting go of things is a process, and one that can be challenging. In his experience, the things that can create resistance aren't always objective or logical. They can be rooted in psychological challenges that have nothing to do with the work itself or the people doing it.

  • @trent-warner
    @trent-warner 2 роки тому

    I've been struggling to consolidate tasks going project to project. Any advice? Does it make sense to be granular (content, design, SEO, meetings, project management, launch, admin, etc.) or keep it general?

    • @marcelpetitpas
      @marcelpetitpas 2 роки тому

      Great question Trent. Generally the best practice is to keep things broader/more general at first for a few reasons: 1. It will be easier to discern what kind of time belong in what bucket 2. There will be less complexity to tracking time, and fewer options to chose from. That means less room for error leading to data cleanup 3. You will be able to collect larger samples of data more rapidly, because you won't be diluting your data across many buckets - which makes a report like this insightful much quicker. Our approach is always to start simple and broad, and then add complexity as needed later on. Generally, we try to align the tasks to buckets that are in alignment with how you think about "Roles" on your team, that way this data is easier to use for forecasting capacity/resources as well. For example: - Development - Design - Project Management - Strategy - Copywriting In this example, you would make sure that every time entry can be mapped back to one of those buckets. If you're tracking time inside a PM tool, this might mean making sure every task or time entry is "tagged" with one of those roles. That would allow you to make things as detailed as you like in the PM tool, but still end up with clean and consistent data for this kind of reporting. Hope that helps!

  • @Absolutely_Nobody
    @Absolutely_Nobody 2 роки тому

    You didn't answer your own god damned question.

  • @RBarn2000
    @RBarn2000 2 роки тому

    time tracking? like how long they surf the web each day, answer personal email, chat with their neighbor? that kind of stuff? good. got to keep track of those slackers. track away.

    • @getparakeeto
      @getparakeeto Рік тому

      Not reallllly what we were getting at. Time Tracking should never be used as a weapon to 'show people how unproductive they are. If we find that someone is constantly too busy, tracking more than 8 hours a day and starting to slow down, this would be the opportunity for us to consider another hire to help take some of the load off. In a case where someone is logging time but things aren't 'getting done' then it can help facilitate the conversation..."I see this is typically taking you 2 hours to complete, but from my POV it's a 20 minute task. Is there anything you need on your end to hit this mark?". Stuff like this!

  • @artkarapetov5712
    @artkarapetov5712 2 роки тому

    Can we have the checklist? I don't see it in the description :)

    • @getparakeeto
      @getparakeeto Рік тому

      You betcha! drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1CRWqRcMHFSit-xUcxD612xpB6SHsqR87

  • @MeetDaveG
    @MeetDaveG 2 роки тому

    These shorts are excellent Marcel. Excellent insight.

  • @DudleyPeacockPrivate
    @DudleyPeacockPrivate 2 роки тому

    Great comments Thank you