Im an old Boyscout who fell in love with canoes at first summer camp. Living here now on a volcanic island in the Philippines and feel excited to come across your video. The local fishing village use primarily plywood canoes with bamboo outriggers and inboard Brigs and Stratton motors to propel the boats. I don't see any sail boats although the boat writes here Im sure know how. Im getting ideas and so much from this one video that starts out with basics including the vernacular, so it's perfect. Thankyou
I have a Grumman 15ft and it has a similar plate for a mast base. How did you attach the first one shown. I also like the idea of the second setup. Do you find one works better? I may make the rudder just to facilitate steering while paddling!😊
You definitely had a lug sail but not a standing lug. A standing lug uses no boom. What you have shown in the video is a balanced lug, of sorts. Your upper yard is normally affixed to the mast at 40% of the yards length forward of the mast and 15% of the booms length running forward of the mast but you have the boom mounted more like a gaff yard. A bit of a frankin sail set up but I'm sure it works well. lol. Interesting video.
Interesting point. I have learned that there are differing opinions about the names for some of the sail types. Most of my knowledge about canoe sails comes from the book "Canoe Rig", written by Todd Bradshaw, who is a professional sail maker (its a great book). His standing lug design has a boom, and he states that "The boom may have either jaws that straddle the mast or a fixed mechanical gooseneck fitting connecting it to the mast." After reading your comment, I did a google search for standing lug sail images, and see that some have a boom and some don't. Eliminating the boom would eliminate the risk of the boom swinging across during a hard gybe, but I assume that there may be some sacrifice in sail performance. I don't claim to have any expert sailing knowledge, I just have fun.
To estimate the center of effort of a sail. draw it to scale on paper. Using a protractor or compass, draw a line bisecting the angle of each corner of the sail. Where all lines come together will approximate the center of effort. The exact center will be a bit closer to the mast. Take measurements and transfer the point to the real sail. Thanks for an excellent video. I have heard many discussion of the finer points of various rigs, but no discussion is as good as really building it.
I got many of my design ideas from the book "Canoe Sail" by Todd Bradshaw, and it also explains the method for finding the center of effort of a sail that you just described. But the overall center of effort for the entire canoe also depends on the length of the canoe fore and aft of the sail, the number of people in the canoe, and the location that they are sitting. So rather than getting too scientific, I think a pragmatic solution is to just test it in a cross wind. And if you get into a situation where the canoe doesn't seem to want to turn, consider shifting the location of the lee boards.
For inspiration, read "Canoemates: A Story of the Florida Reef and Everglades" by Kirk Munroe, an account of 2 boys sailing canoes through the Florida Keys in the 1890s. The vessels were small, superlight decked canoes. with sails. In heavy weather, a gust can cause the boom to swing out as the canoe leans to the side, and get caught in the water. At that poiint you can't let the boom swing out farther. The sail fills, and over you go. Solution, Don't use the boom, leaving a "loose footed" sail. It is not as efficient as having a boom, but can release in an instant, and you carry one less spar.. You will see its value when you try it. If you pay out slack on the sheet, (don't lose the bitter end) the sail "flags", flapping and spilling the gust. That is a good idea for your initial sail too, as it is a very forgiving rig. It is common with lateen rigs and some older lug rigs.
On a recent vacation I rented a Hobie Waive sailboat for a couple of hours of sailing. The sail was loose footed, and I could see the advantage of not having the risk of a swinging boom during a hard gybe. Probably even more important for renting these sailboats to people with limited experience. I might try it on my canoe some time and see if I notice a difference in the performance. Thanks for the idea.
Nice rig man and almost exactly the same as the one I built for my canoe in the mid 70's. It worked really well, but I'd added an outrigger on the lee side. 💜👍
Thank you very much! I and son made a wooden 18×3ft canoe by ourselves in last year. And now we are planning to make the sail. Your experience of canoe is very useful for us. In Japan yachting is a sports only in school or for rich. Yachts are regulated competition standard. So we could not find size of sail or Leeboard suitable for 18ft canoe.
The Grumman 18 makes a great hull for this. I've converted several canoes into performance sailing trimarans. The best have been made from Grummans. Other top quality aluminum canoes work just as well, but that's what I had. A good aluminum canoe isn't compromised by drilling holes for fasteners and boat stuff. Removing the seats and thwarts does not create a problem, either, since you will be adding thwarts as needed to attach the leeboards and /or aka amas. I ordered a sail kit from Sail~Rite for $95 that was a stitch together project . Simple and well marked. And, SOOO much better than anything I could have fashioned. Its a lug sail like this one. I added a headsail of 19sq ft. The jib helps a canoe tack better in light winds. The main is 54sq ft as recommended by this video. Well Done! I miss doing this, but my old shoulders have about had it. It's back to an aluminum skiff for me. I wonder if anyone has ever put a sail on one of those.....?
The lee boards do not prevent healing (leaning due to the force of the wind on the sail), so the canoe could still capsize just like any other canoe. I sit on the bottom to keep the center of gravity low. I haven't ever capsized, but I have been close.
I put a viking sail on my sportspal a few years back; no rudder, no lee boards. Just pull the sail up and hold on for dear life. I was keeping up with a cruise ship and had everyone waving at me. I don't have the canoe anymore but at least I'm alive! Thanks for the video...I really identify.
Basic is that you do not need a rudder on any very small sailboat such as a canoe. Another is that a higher aspect rig is much better. Also, leeboards need to have their edges sharpened. Then you need some padding on the rails because to sail upwind you need to hike out to balance the sail. But, as the author says, he is a beginner. once again, the rudder is an unnecessary waste of time for anyone who knows how to sail a small boat.
My experience is that most canoe sailors start out thinking they don't need a rudder but end up fitting one. Paddle steering is OK, if you have more than two hands (please don't tie off sheets in canoes, you will swim). Main sheet in your teeth, perhaps? You can also steer with sails, but that really needs two masts and doesn't work so well downwind.
@@highloughsdrifter1629 Hey ! Thanks for noticing my posts. I've sailed dingies without rudder both upwind and down. It is all a matter of balance using crew weight. Two sails are not necessary. However, I must admit that I have not completed my canoe sailing rig yet. It will not have a rudder and will not require the crew to steer with a paddle, but is , so far, unproven.
I have seen a video of a man sailing a canoe in a stiff wind using just a paddle for both the steering and to act as a lee board. I have tried it, and I am not that skilled.
A junk rig sail, which is basically a balanced lug sail with battens, is one of the many sail types shown on canoes in Todd Bradshaw's book "Canoe Rig".
I've battened standing lugs on my canoe (two masted, so two sails) The sails are cut flat, mine are from single pieces of sail cloth, no seams. I tried the true Junk Rig type of sheeting (to each batten) and found it unnecessarily complex for these small sails. Ended up with a centre main sheet which means I can tack without ducking, the main sail is all in front of the "cockpit", the mizzen behind.
I liked your simple explanation and ingenious solutions for a sailing canoe. Also useful was your explanation of weather helm and how to adjust for it. Great job. And you aren’t selling anything!
Most canoe sails are not real tall, which reduces the likelihood that the wind pressure on the sail will cause the canoe to tip. Me and any passengers sit on pads directly on the bottom of the canoe when we sail (instead of up on a seat), which keeps a low center of gravity. When there is more wind and the canoe starts to lean (called heeling), I slide to the upwind side of the bottom of the canoe. I have never tipped over, but I have had a few close calls in gusty winds. From what I have read, anyone that sails any type of small boat long enough should expect to tip over sometime. An outrigger would obviously reduce that possibility, but canoes can also sailed without them. "Back in the day" when racing sailing canoes was popular they did not use outriggers, but most of those canoes were decked so that they could heel way over.
That is a great question. You must have experience is this matter to know to ask this. Generally when there is enough wind to have some momentum I can tack without paddling. Sometimes it is like magic, and other times it barely turns. If it feels like it is not going to make it, then it helps to grab the boom and hold the sail out on the side opposite from the direction that the canoe is turning. I believe that this is called a "hard cross". But if the winds are too light, you just have to paddle.
@@rickhawkins218 Canoe sailing may be new to you, but it has quite a long history. In the USA it was probably most popular in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Back in that era the American Canoe Association published rules for racing sailing canoes, and there was even an International Cup canoe sailing competition. If you Google search for "Sailing Canoes, a Brief History" you can find a document by that name which was published in 1935 on the intcanoe.org website. Be sure to use the "previous" tab to start at the beginning.
A fellow sailor here... Install a fairlead in front of your sheet cam cleat so your sheet stays in place. Make it tall enough (Upsidedown U) so you can pull sheet up and out of the jaws when easing. Put a stopper knot at the end of the sheet that's bigger than the fairlead opening so you don't loose the sheet through the fairlead. I like your setup.
Excellent presentation! Very informative, similar to you, I am learning about sailing, this video took a subject which to the layman can seem very complex and made it simple!
Thank you Tea,, best build video for canoe sailing on UA-cam, everybody take notice. You took the mystery out of the sail building. Very well explained.
Thanks for the video. One thing: that little flange on the floor of the canoe in front of the bow seat (plainly visible at 3:28)? That's for attaching the foot of a mast. Grumman designed and sold a sailing rig for this canoe.
You are correct about the canoe being manufactured with a flange for attaching the foot of the mast, which is what I mentioned at 2:47. My neighbor has one of the actual old sailing rigs that was manufactured to fit this canoe, which utilizes a Gunter mast. It works great, but most canoes won't have the built-in plate for mounting the mast step. So most mast steps are typically mounted with screws in a wooden canoe or epoxy on other canoes.
Thank you for making this video. I've been researching building a simple sailing canoe rig and while I've found many videos, most assume a basic knowledge of sailboat anatomy terminology so while I've picked up most of it along the way, it's nice to have a video with the basics in layman's lingo. Saved in my growing "Sailing" playlist 😊👍
I think it sails well. I do wish that it could sail at a steeper angle into the wind (which is called pointing). It can sail into the wind about 20 degrees. I am not sure what my expectation should be. But I always get back to where I started from.
A lot of the practicality lies in the fact that lots of people own canoes, that don't own sailboats. It is definitely a way to get some sailing experience.
There are several canoe sailing videos on youtube, but they are not instructional. The book Canoe Rig by Todd Bradshaw has a good chapter on how to sail. Some problems I can think of are: 1) If the canoe doesn't respond correctly to the rudder, consider shifting the leeboard location. Think of the canoe as a weather vane. 2) When tacking in light winds, hold the boom with your hand until the canoe turns, and then swing the boom to the other side. If this doesn't work, just use your paddle. 3) I sail on inland lakes, and my most consistent problem is that the wind dies, so always bring a paddle.
What a great video, thank you
Thank you, Sir. You have blown my mind. Fascinating on how you build those parts.
This was the video i was looking for. I love canoeing and had seen these sails in UA-cam but had no idea how it worked. Thanks for making this.
Im an old Boyscout who fell in love with canoes at first summer camp. Living here now on a volcanic island in the Philippines and feel excited to come across your video. The local fishing village use primarily plywood canoes with bamboo outriggers and inboard Brigs and Stratton motors to propel the boats. I don't see any sail boats although the boat writes here Im sure know how. Im getting ideas and so much from this one video that starts out with basics including the vernacular, so it's perfect. Thankyou
I have a Grumman 15ft and it has a similar plate for a mast base. How did you attach the first one shown. I also like the idea of the second setup. Do you find one works better? I may make the rudder just to facilitate steering while paddling!😊
You definitely had a lug sail but not a standing lug. A standing lug uses no boom. What you have shown in the video is a balanced lug, of sorts. Your upper yard is normally affixed to the mast at 40% of the yards length forward of the mast and 15% of the booms length running forward of the mast but you have the boom mounted more like a gaff yard. A bit of a frankin sail set up but I'm sure it works well. lol. Interesting video.
Interesting point. I have learned that there are differing opinions about the names for some of the sail types. Most of my knowledge about canoe sails comes from the book "Canoe Rig", written by Todd Bradshaw, who is a professional sail maker (its a great book). His standing lug design has a boom, and he states that "The boom may have either jaws that straddle the mast or a fixed mechanical gooseneck fitting connecting it to the mast." After reading your comment, I did a google search for standing lug sail images, and see that some have a boom and some don't. Eliminating the boom would eliminate the risk of the boom swinging across during a hard gybe, but I assume that there may be some sacrifice in sail performance. I don't claim to have any expert sailing knowledge, I just have fun.
UA-cam destroyed your video with propaganda ads. Sorry its unwatchable.
I didn't know that, but I am sorry to hear it. It appears that when UA-cam videos reach a certain level of popularity they attach adds to them.
Great video.
Glad you liked it
Best video on kayak / canoe sails !!!
Glad you liked it.
To estimate the center of effort of a sail. draw it to scale on paper. Using a protractor or compass, draw a line bisecting the angle of each corner of the sail. Where all lines come together will approximate the center of effort. The exact center will be a bit closer to the mast. Take measurements and transfer the point to the real sail. Thanks for an excellent video. I have heard many discussion of the finer points of various rigs, but no discussion is as good as really building it.
I got many of my design ideas from the book "Canoe Sail" by Todd Bradshaw, and it also explains the method for finding the center of effort of a sail that you just described. But the overall center of effort for the entire canoe also depends on the length of the canoe fore and aft of the sail, the number of people in the canoe, and the location that they are sitting. So rather than getting too scientific, I think a pragmatic solution is to just test it in a cross wind. And if you get into a situation where the canoe doesn't seem to want to turn, consider shifting the location of the lee boards.
For inspiration, read "Canoemates: A Story of the Florida Reef and Everglades" by Kirk Munroe, an account of 2 boys sailing canoes through the Florida Keys in the 1890s. The vessels were small, superlight decked canoes. with sails. In heavy weather, a gust can cause the boom to swing out as the canoe leans to the side, and get caught in the water. At that poiint you can't let the boom swing out farther. The sail fills, and over you go. Solution, Don't use the boom, leaving a "loose footed" sail. It is not as efficient as having a boom, but can release in an instant, and you carry one less spar.. You will see its value when you try it. If you pay out slack on the sheet, (don't lose the bitter end) the sail "flags", flapping and spilling the gust. That is a good idea for your initial sail too, as it is a very forgiving rig. It is common with lateen rigs and some older lug rigs.
On a recent vacation I rented a Hobie Waive sailboat for a couple of hours of sailing. The sail was loose footed, and I could see the advantage of not having the risk of a swinging boom during a hard gybe. Probably even more important for renting these sailboats to people with limited experience. I might try it on my canoe some time and see if I notice a difference in the performance. Thanks for the idea.
I love your use of the belay pin. Infinitely practical and a shame you don’t see them used more often
It is clear that you put time and effort into producing a working rig that looks great! Thanks for sharing. I will try this on my own canoe.
Have fun!
Amazing engineering!!! Nice job 👍
Glad you like it!
Thank you for sharing. Very very useful for my project. ❤❤
Glad it was helpful!
Nice rig man and almost exactly the same as the one I built for my canoe in the mid 70's. It worked really well, but I'd added an outrigger on the lee side. 💜👍
Thanks for sharing
Very good ideas, simple, practical and non destructive for the boat.
Glad you liked it!
Thank you for your efforts and making this video. It is very helpful and informative.
Glad it was helpful!
Nice work 👏
Thanks ✌️
Thank you very much! I and son made a wooden 18×3ft canoe by ourselves in last year. And now we are planning to make the sail. Your experience of canoe is very useful for us. In Japan yachting is a sports only in school or for rich. Yachts are regulated competition standard. So we could not find size of sail or Leeboard suitable for 18ft canoe.
Have fun!
@@tea9554 Thank you ! Have a nice voyage.
The Grumman 18 makes a great hull for this. I've converted several canoes into performance sailing trimarans. The best have been made from Grummans. Other top quality aluminum canoes work just as well, but that's what I had. A good aluminum canoe isn't compromised by drilling holes for fasteners and boat stuff. Removing the seats and thwarts does not create a problem, either, since you will be adding thwarts as needed to attach the leeboards and /or aka amas. I ordered a sail kit from Sail~Rite for $95 that was a stitch together project . Simple and well marked. And, SOOO much better than anything I could have fashioned. Its a lug sail like this one. I added a headsail of 19sq ft. The jib helps a canoe tack better in light winds. The main is 54sq ft as recommended by this video. Well Done! I miss doing this, but my old shoulders have about had it. It's back to an aluminum skiff for me. I wonder if anyone has ever put a sail on one of those.....?
Have fun with it!
Grumman made a 19 foot. square sterned freight canoe. You can motor, sail or paddle. They are fantastic canoes.
These prevent healing and capsize too huh?
The lee boards do not prevent healing (leaning due to the force of the wind on the sail), so the canoe could still capsize just like any other canoe. I sit on the bottom to keep the center of gravity low. I haven't ever capsized, but I have been close.
Good straightforward advise
Thanks
I put a viking sail on my sportspal a few years back; no rudder, no lee boards. Just pull the sail up and hold on for dear life. I was keeping up with a cruise ship and had everyone waving at me. I don't have the canoe anymore but at least I'm alive! Thanks for the video...I really identify.
Must have been fun, but probably not a practical sailing rig.
@@tea9554 You can push your luck a little more in Georgian Bay harbors.
Beautiful
Thanks
Basic is that you do not need a rudder on any very small sailboat such as a canoe. Another is that a higher aspect rig is much better. Also, leeboards need to have their edges sharpened. Then you need some padding on the rails because to sail upwind you need to hike out to balance the sail. But, as the author says, he is a beginner. once again, the rudder is an unnecessary waste of time for anyone who knows how to sail a small boat.
My experience is that most canoe sailors start out thinking they don't need a rudder but end up fitting one. Paddle steering is OK, if you have more than two hands (please don't tie off sheets in canoes, you will swim). Main sheet in your teeth, perhaps? You can also steer with sails, but that really needs two masts and doesn't work so well downwind.
@@highloughsdrifter1629 Hey ! Thanks for noticing my posts. I've sailed dingies without rudder both upwind and down. It is all a matter of balance using crew weight. Two sails are not necessary. However, I must admit that I have not completed my canoe sailing rig yet. It will not have a rudder and will not require the crew to steer with a paddle, but is , so far, unproven.
I have seen a video of a man sailing a canoe in a stiff wind using just a paddle for both the steering and to act as a lee board. I have tried it, and I am not that skilled.
Very good, well done for making it easy to understand and simple solutions to problems
Thanks
Always wondered if a Junk Rig sail would work on a small canoe. Uses unstayed mast, can be lowered easily to reduce sail.
A junk rig sail, which is basically a balanced lug sail with battens, is one of the many sail types shown on canoes in Todd Bradshaw's book "Canoe Rig".
I've battened standing lugs on my canoe (two masted, so two sails) The sails are cut flat, mine are from single pieces of sail cloth, no seams. I tried the true Junk Rig type of sheeting (to each batten) and found it unnecessarily complex for these small sails. Ended up with a centre main sheet which means I can tack without ducking, the main sail is all in front of the "cockpit", the mizzen behind.
Some great ideas for turning your canoe into a sailing canoe. Liking the removable parts system leaving no damage to the canoe. Thanks for sharing 👍.
You bet!
I liked your simple explanation and ingenious solutions for a sailing canoe. Also useful was your explanation of weather helm and how to adjust for it. Great job. And you aren’t selling anything!
Glad it was helpful!
brilliant!
Glad you liked it.
I’ve been searching for this video for years, thank you sir!!
Glad I could help!
Nice work! Beautiful build, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Nicely rigged. I briefly considered such a setup. I came to the belief that an outrigger would be needed.
Most canoe sails are not real tall, which reduces the likelihood that the wind pressure on the sail will cause the canoe to tip. Me and any passengers sit on pads directly on the bottom of the canoe when we sail (instead of up on a seat), which keeps a low center of gravity. When there is more wind and the canoe starts to lean (called heeling), I slide to the upwind side of the bottom of the canoe. I have never tipped over, but I have had a few close calls in gusty winds. From what I have read, anyone that sails any type of small boat long enough should expect to tip over sometime. An outrigger would obviously reduce that possibility, but canoes can also sailed without them. "Back in the day" when racing sailing canoes was popular they did not use outriggers, but most of those canoes were decked so that they could heel way over.
Finally a video that worth watching. Many videos skip the parts of installing rigs and many other interesting stuff. Thanks for making this video.
Glad it was helpful!
Are you generally gathering enough momentum to tack without paddling when soloing?
That is a great question. You must have experience is this matter to know to ask this. Generally when there is enough wind to have some momentum I can tack without paddling. Sometimes it is like magic, and other times it barely turns. If it feels like it is not going to make it, then it helps to grab the boom and hold the sail out on the side opposite from the direction that the canoe is turning. I believe that this is called a "hard cross". But if the winds are too light, you just have to paddle.
@@tea9554 I have done quite a lot of sailing, but 'canoe sailing' is new.
@@rickhawkins218 Canoe sailing may be new to you, but it has quite a long history. In the USA it was probably most popular in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Back in that era the American Canoe Association published rules for racing sailing canoes, and there was even an International Cup canoe sailing competition. If you Google search for "Sailing Canoes, a Brief History" you can find a document by that name which was published in 1935 on the intcanoe.org website. Be sure to use the "previous" tab to start at the beginning.
@@tea9554 Thanks, i will check that out.
A fellow sailor here... Install a fairlead in front of your sheet cam cleat so your sheet stays in place. Make it tall enough (Upsidedown U) so you can pull sheet up and out of the jaws when easing. Put a stopper knot at the end of the sheet that's bigger than the fairlead opening so you don't loose the sheet through the fairlead. I like your setup.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Excellent presentation! Very informative, similar to you, I am learning about sailing, this video took a subject which to the layman can seem very complex and made it simple!
Thanks, I am glad it was useful to you
Excellent video. Youre a natural teacher. Thanks for sharing
Thank you
Hi, with this type of solution, you can also travel on the sea for a long time?
You can sail for as long as you have a breeze, but an open canoe is not safe for travel on the sea
Thank you Tea,, best build video for canoe sailing on UA-cam, everybody take notice. You took the mystery out of the sail building. Very well explained.
Glad it was helpful!
great video (learn alot of the terminology in english to boot)
Glad it was helpful
You did the rigging by yourself? Great
Yes I did the rigging, the carpentry is pretty basic.
Looks great!
Thanks!
Thanks for the video. One thing: that little flange on the floor of the canoe in front of the bow seat (plainly visible at 3:28)? That's for attaching the foot of a mast. Grumman designed and sold a sailing rig for this canoe.
You are correct about the canoe being manufactured with a flange for attaching the foot of the mast, which is what I mentioned at 2:47. My neighbor has one of the actual old sailing rigs that was manufactured to fit this canoe, which utilizes a Gunter mast. It works great, but most canoes won't have the built-in plate for mounting the mast step. So most mast steps are typically mounted with screws in a wooden canoe or epoxy on other canoes.
Thank you for making this video. I've been researching building a simple sailing canoe rig and while I've found many videos, most assume a basic knowledge of sailboat anatomy terminology so while I've picked up most of it along the way, it's nice to have a video with the basics in layman's lingo. Saved in my growing "Sailing" playlist 😊👍
Glad it was helpful!
Nice work! How does it sail?
I think it sails well. I do wish that it could sail at a steeper angle into the wind (which is called pointing). It can sail into the wind about 20 degrees. I am not sure what my expectation should be. But I always get back to where I started from.
Wow, 20 degrees is very close to the wind! You are inspiring me to try to build one.
Would love to see a video on how to sail her
A lot of the practicality lies in the fact that lots of people own canoes, that don't own sailboats. It is definitely a way to get some sailing experience.
Good ideas shown here! Thank you for doing this.😊
Glad you appreciated it
Do you know of any videos showing how to properly sail one of these rigs and common problems with them
There are several canoe sailing videos on youtube, but they are not instructional. The book Canoe Rig by Todd Bradshaw has a good chapter on how to sail. Some problems I can think of are: 1) If the canoe doesn't respond correctly to the rudder, consider shifting the leeboard location. Think of the canoe as a weather vane. 2) When tacking in light winds, hold the boom with your hand until the canoe turns, and then swing the boom to the other side. If this doesn't work, just use your paddle. 3) I sail on inland lakes, and my most consistent problem is that the wind dies, so always bring a paddle.