Відео

I hope someone brings Fish to the next Fight Night! Be cool to see the deck tick.

Great video Voltie! Thanks for showing my deck off :D If you like the deck and want to see more of it, I've been putting up gameplay videos every other day for a while now with all kinds of big mana decks like Bots / Shops / Eldrazi + some other spicy brews. Check out my channel / videos below! www.youtube.com/@VenerableLama/videos As far as your commentary on the deck goes it's pretty spot on for each card choice: - Forsaken monument and Devourer of Destiny are the last 2 cards included in the deck but they've been good so will stick around for the foreseeable future - Drawing removal can be awkward when you need a big mana payoff but it's nice that most of the removal doubles as a threat or other utility (I.e Devourer, K Command, Confluence, Cityscape, Ballista etc) - The mana base is certainly the best part of the deck, you get so many lands that produce more than 1 mana and a lot of good utility also - The tormod's crypt was in the side for the event but seemed overkill with the amount of grave hate I have so I'm trying the cursed totem out for Nadu decks - Moons can be annoying but are often too slow and innefective against artifact mana draws, if there is a good artifact that stops moons and isn't too narrow I'd try it - Most of the board isn't just for Karn, everything but the Lattice and Coating come in regularly game 2 and 3 If anyone has any questions about the deck I'm always happy to discuss in my UA-cam comments or on Discord (@thom8057)

Would love to know how Scrawling Crawler went! Cant wait to get involved in some FNM again like the good old days.

Moon strong

Looks like I am the first to respond to the questions posted on this video. Thanks for answering my question at about the 20 minute mark of this video. The answer I thought you gave was great! I also enjoyed the response from the first question about decks that had been lost to the sands of time.

My landfall obsessed butt reluctantly agrees with this video

They are really awesome for Cube draft. But for constrcted formats, they are too good and warp things considerably.

You just argued that some one getting mana screwed was a good thing? How is that fun, for either player? I understand it lessens the value of other non-basic lands in terms of deck building, but on the other hand, it's not fun when some one can't play anything for 5 turns. If it exists, and is available to everyone and makes gameplay more consistent for everyone, it's probably a good thing.

Great video! It's insane that formats like legacy, vintage(!!) etc indirectly force players to ALWAYS "draw" from a fixed "short-list" of cards - despite the thousands of cards printed over the decades! -.... if they are to "realistically" compete in tournaments and the likes, that is! Fetches, all those insane "singletons" (vintage) and so on.... either you play them or you won't be able to compete, as simple as that! So despite all the cards that you could potentially play, 99% of them are completely irrelevant due to messed up power levels and unintended synergies! Fetches are the premiere example of this (also Force of Will, Mishra's Workshop etc where legal....). On one hand, it's sad, on the other it's boring and it really hurts original deck building etc....and if we want to go into more "technical" details, when everyone HAS to play cards from a "short-list", those cards become really expensive too! Also, as someone pointed out, mono-colored or even bi-colored decks are virtually extinct due to perfect mana base allowed by fetches... and people are even more pushed towards the same cards! If the best card that does A is white, the best card that does B is red and the best card that does C is black, you don't have to settle for a second rate choice (maybe a card that does B less efficiently in white etc) if you can simply have perfect mana!

thank god I’m not alone on this. they warp EVERYTHING to a comical degree.

Excellent, now I know what to SB in against my opponent's Autumn Willow

I like fetchlands in Legacy specifically for their free shuffles with Brainstorm and Ponder. I also think they make playing around wasteland a real decision where you have to ask how many colors you're willing to put on the table vs just hitting your land drops. Decks like Jeskai control want to have 3+ mana in play and usually fetch basics to play around wasteland (playing closer to their original design). I think that fetchlands have to be legal in any format with Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Harbringer of the Seas and Magus of the Moon. Those cards wholly stonewall otherwise interesting manabases & would single handedly ruin Pioneer / Pauper if they were printed into them. Banning fetchlands is modern is fine with me, but those moon effects would have to go with them. I agree with everything else. My most played formats are Pioneer and Pauper so I never have to look at those dumb things & the tactics that emerge from playing around tap lands & deciding how to value your mana bases are aspects of the game I genuinely enjoy. Fetchlands ruin that aspect almost entirely.

i fucking hate fetches because they make impossibly greedy mana bases viable. WHy the fuck can you play 4+ color reliably? Whats the fucking upside on going mono-colored?

genuinely makes paper magic so much slower, i hate it

I don't know how many people you were persuade, but I already agreed with you. It's nice to hear a thought out argument about this and mention some things that people don't tend to thing of. I really hate all the shuffling and cheating or even unintentional cheating it brings about (many commander players don't want to shuffle their whole deck over and over again and often do very lazy shuffles after just searching their deck, which is always fishy to me)

lands ruined magic

There are decks that run less mana-producing lands than fetchlands and that's a problem. This wouldn't be an issue if there were still powerful land destruction decks around but, unfortunately, modern Magic is too fast and you cannot afford to wait 3 turns to cast a land destruction spell. Generally speaking, the only reason fetchlands are so good is because the majority of decks don't have the ability to deal with them. Red is the best color to deal with lands bt blue could too. Also white could have an instant that for 1 mana would allow the caster to search their deck for land, as long as the opponent has also brought a land into play from their library.

very exciting! :) i might have to finally get mtgo for this

You’re right… I’ve seen an argument they should be banned in Legacy and it’s probably the best thing that could happen for that format as hard as that is to swallow.

Hi there I noticed in the RL cards to avoid using in 8 point decks video you mentioned a few decks were not working as expected and went to the cutting room floor. I was wondering how many decks tech videos for highlander are you planning to make per month. I wonder if you could do a video further explaining the good decks designs that sadly went to the cutting room floor. I am asking this question because I had a few interesting ideas for decks for highlander but ended up getting to the cutting room floor. Keep up the good work!

I would also love to know what you think we could do to encourage more people playing highlander. I recognise that you have puts hours and hours and hours into trying to do this yourself and believe your resources are invaluable and great, and have noticed a large surge in more highlander players in the last year or so, but that being said, what behaviors from consistent players would you like to see to help grow the community? Are there things you think stores could do to help? How would you go about pitching 7pt to commander players? Is that worth doing for newer players (that seem like the might enjoy 1v1 semi-competitive magic), even if they are from the completely different world of commander?

G'day Voltie, I have one broad question about 7PH that I'd love to hear you respond to in detail: how would you personally like to see the points list managed in the medium to long term? In answering that question, I'd love to hear you touch on the following: 1) If Wizards continues to power creep sets, particularly Modern Horizons sets, should the committee respond by increasing the rate of pointings, or by de-pointing older combo cards to power up the format (given it's likely that Wizards prints more Broadside Bombadiers but not more Doomsdays), or a balance (or third option)? 2) Do you think it's more important that each card is at a points level where it has the potential to see play, or that the play experience remains "fun" (obviously fun is subjective to some degree). E.g. Would you support depointing powerful cards that don't see much play, such as Ancestral Recall, Time Vault, or Channel, even if it meant the possibility that the decision would need to be reversed? How much risk should the committee be prepared to take for depointings? 3) Do you think the current rate that cards are pointed at is reasonable, or would you like to see cards pointed earlier, or conversely given more time at 0 for players to fit them in their decks for free? For example, cards like Psychic Frog and Phlage that were watch listed before being pointed. Should "fair" cards ever be pointed on release? 4) Do you think any radical changes to the points list are necessary or forthcoming? Not in terms of specific cards, but larger changes in the sense of the accessibility rule giving an 8th point to non-RL decks. Do you have any "big picture" ideas that could be worth community discussion? 5) Any other aspects to managing the points list/format in the long term that aren't covered above. I also have one question about Magic in general: what do you think about the state of the game? Specifically with regards to power creep and Universes Beyond (now being half of all Magic sets)?

I actually think the first half of your video indicates why they are so great for magic. They are a technical play piece that enables many complex play patterns. I also think you have settled way too soon on "optimal" land bases in modern formats. I run a dimir saga food deck, and only 5 fetches, 2 dark slick, 4 basics. It's very robust against moon. Yes, almost all decks will run some catches, but it enables many more complex strategies. I don't see how it's "bad" for the game, it's just a different direction that you personally don't enjoy. Fetches only really affect legacy and modern, with no other competitive format running them (other than edh). Eh, they here to stay.

Not a very exciting question, but I was wondering about your personal watchlist, is the list ordered in any particular way? For example by priority of which pointings you think should happen first or are most reasonable changes? Are there pointings on that list you think are much more mandatory than others?

Problem is R&D, not the fetches themselves. In 2003 when Onslaught hit, allied and enemy colors mattered. With 5 of them, only getting basics, they're fine. Even the shocks in a format like modern, okay. The trouble is really about the power creep of the creatures. The pace of the game is faster, and each card has to do more. So now all the good lands have these added utilities. Cavern of Souls or Urza's Saga being two prominent examples. In Garfield's vision, or w/e. There's Sinkhole. There's Strip Mine. There's Stasis. The field we're allowed to play in is much narrower to accomodate Creatures: The Battling rather than Magic: The Gathering. The tools that are needed to punish these greedy, sprawling mana bases would lay bare how absurd the 1 & 2 drops have gotten in the modern game and thus we are stuck with this. The fetches were totally fine and have now become something terrible. But that's not their fault. The designers specifically made cards fetchable that shouldn't be.

Hey Voltie, are there any archetypes or cards you would like to see get more support in the future? I personally dream of the day that cloudpost is a real build around in singleton, thanks for all the great work with making the format more accessible to new players.

My favorite stupid-use/niche-use of fetch lands was in a deck with Heartless Hidetsugu as the commander. I used tons of damage doublers, so that anyone who had even life would simply die immediately when I tapped my commander. I used the fetchlands to manipulate my life total to an odd life total, so I'd be left with one life and everyone else was left with zero. Silly, fun, stupid. Anyways, I agree with everything you said in the video. Just wanted to add another reason they should be disliked. :)

Heya Voltie! Love the vid as always. Pointings: Hard agree on most, apart from Phelia. She too cute. I also think that Seasoned Dungeoneer might not need the point if you do add one to City. That card needs a point asap. De-Pointings: All of these make alot of sense, these tutors are pretty bad apart from Vamp (Metamorphosis as you mentioned). Uro to 1 scares me though. As far as possible cards to look out for, I think Arena of Glory is one of those cards like you mentioned with Phelia, where it just gets better and better the more cards are added with on attack triggers. I also think the One Ring should be looked at to go to 2, cards insane.

Very cool deck! Considering psychic frog is now pointed, how would you adjust the list?

When I first saw fetch lands I thought there were a bit powerful, but when the opponent used it to fetch dual lands it seems completely broken. I'd prefer for them to fetch only basic lands, and exile themselves instead of sacrificing them (to prevent graveyard shenanigans).

I realized they were a problem when I am putting in more fetchlands to counter nonbasic land hate...

I think it's the typed duals that are too blame.

Great video. Covered basically everything Fetches do, and I would agree that all the abilities they provide likely makes them the best cards in the game. Especially since they don't even take up spell slots.

Super weird hill to die on lol

Well put arguments against the Onslaught era fetchlands, however I have to respectfully disagree. As someone that's played since Beta, while mana/color screw was an integral facet of the game it was more attributed to a side effect of deck construction. Green has long been the go-to color for easy mana fixing between Birds of Paradise, Untamed Wilds (which later was replaced by the better Rampant Growth in Mirage), and Nature Lore (A forest only version of Rampant Growth that can fetch out any dual land with the Forest type), add in Fellwar Stone, City of Brass, and mana fixing artifacts like Celestial Prism, color fixing is indeed a part of Garfield's vision. In fact the original fetchlands appeared in Mirage, obviously slower than the Onslaught era fetches, but no less important for what they did. Having played early era Magic and knowing how deck building as improved with the introduction of the Onslaught era fetches, I can only say I wish they had appeared sooner in the game.

Hyperbolic video titles aside, I do wish fetchlands weren't woven into the fabric of eternal formats-that their removal wouldn't unpredictably completely alter the structure of the format. And that's entirely due to the unbelievable amount of collective downtime experienced since their introduction over two decades ago from shuffling. It also makes me wonder how much money was collectively burnt and on sleeves wearing out/splitting faster due to extra shuffling. Though I know it's unpopular, I also hate prevalence of blue cantrips in Legacy since it frequently results in blue just being the best colour with the top deck feature 12 slots spent on the same three spells. I'm well aware the argument in giving more decision points makes the game more "skill testing". What I tend to find though, is people just like the mechanistic action with an illusion of choice. Most Ponders aren't a particularly deep evaluation of the board state, but a player needs to work through a number of steps to execute the spell and a lot of people just like to do that. You could probably say the same thing about fetches. I.e. a choice is made about what to fetch and there is a bunch of mechanistic work needed to resolve the fetch, so a lot of people like that aspect of the game. And so that's why I think these things will never change.

Yea. Shock lands are over hyped garbage

Ruined? No. Worsened? Yes.

i think you have made a good case for what fetch lands do to the game and why they are powerful, but not why that is bad? like, appealing to garfield's 'original vision' of the game, for example: garfield's original concept of M:tG, going back to Alpha, was a game you'd play over the course of 2-3 turns by exploiting a handful of extremely powerful cards. later revisions changed that core experience, and it has only drifted further away as time has gone on. the overall thesis of M:tG has been rejecting the simple concepts of Alpha, for better or worse; saying 'this isn't what Garfield envisioned' doesn't tell us much because he was designing a very fast paced 'Take That!' card game that doesn't resemble the type of play that became popular you did not establish why mana poverty scenarios are good for the game. how is it better to have situations where players might never see the mana card(s) they need to play what is in their hand? 'you see the same cards over and over' is still true even if you excise fetchlands from the game and run competitive mono decks against each other - the only difference is that when mana poverty happens, someone gets steamrolled because they couldn't even play cards. i don't know if that's a desirable non-homogenous state of play? if it is, why is it? i think the most homogenized M:tG experiences i've had did not relate at all to fetchlands. playing Type 1, all competitive decks boiled down to the same core concept: play enough mana to power a draw 7, use that draw 7 to drop more mana and fire off another draw 7, repeat until win condition achieved the cards would have different names depending on the deck, but the end result was always the same homogenized play is a consequence of competitive play, not game design

Just ban every single Fetchland and make Evolving wilds the powerhouse it has been when each of us started playing magic with card collections worth 10 Bucks.

when the surveil lands came out, people in legacy would play worldly tutor as a second entomb it would go fetch, search, surveil on stack, wordly tutor atraxa, surveil into graveyard, reanimate All because of fetches

I guess what gets me about fetches is that they've been artificially kept at a high price while also fundamentally altering how decks with multiple colors play. Playing more colors used to be a trade off with consistency, but when you have mono color decks playing fetches just for the utility, it takes away a big aspect of deckbuilding. Rather than weighing the pros and cons of splashing something, there is no debate, which may have been an overarching design change to the game, except it is kept behind a paywall, so it's like budget players aren't playing a budget version of the same cardpool, they are playing a different version of the game.

i literally can't imagine a situation where somehow a fetchless deck is better, even running a mono color deck into a very aggressive meta paying life voluntarily to reduce your chances of topdecking a land is almost certainly going to better preserve your life against aggro than opting to not pay life and then drawing land cards instead of the answers you need to prevent the board from getting out of hand

I agree it's a time sucker. And that does hurt the game.

The #1 problem with this essay is its 100% anecdotal. None of the opinions you share are backed with data. Although the sentiment is valid i do not believe fetch lands are the worst thing for magic. I'd argue that the death of the protour and the propensity to power creep cards for commander is the worst.

This video blew up! I made this as a tongue-in-cheek to some chatter about Australian 7 Point Highlander (my main content scope) but it appears this is reaching well beyond that space, so welcome! - Fetches refer to the Onslaught cycle of Polluted Delta and co, and the follow up Zendikar cycle of Misty Rainforest etc. This was not meant to include cards like Evolving Wilds which are great! - Most of the discussion points in this presentation are referring to 60 card 1v1 formats. Commander is almost never the focus of my content (sorry), and while that may change, this was not the case this time. The main reason I want to clarify this is that "just not playing fetches" is perfectly valid in Commander, but 60 card formats with high stakes require optimal deckbuilding. - While I may seem super angry about Fetches, that is mostly a bit for emphasis (although they are terrible). Anyone who knows me knows I would never eschew the "correct" deckbuilding choices in favour of personal preference. - Points regarding play patterns or homogeny are related to 60 card formats, as mana screw and colour screw were SPECIFICALLY a part of Garfield's vision, something I like to believe should make people question their choices during gameplay. Have a good one!

I haven't been a fan of fetchlands either. With Triomes it really makes 5 color decks run with ease. In some cases you can be fully color fixed on turn 1. They also make design space involving lands fairly awkward. Landfall is the big one that can easily be pushed too far thanks to fetches. Prismatic Vista and Fabled Passage sound more like the sweet spot where you can't color fix as easily, but you aren't totally at the whim of variance. Put an actual price on running all 5 colors which is what the game initially started out with. I feel that Pioneer was done right by pretty much pre-banning the land type fetches.

I mean fetches that grab dual lands are a bit good, but that is only possible with the dual lands that say forest island for example which I don’t think was entirely intended. If it’s just grabbing a basic it’s not that good. And most fetch lands put the land in tapped so it’s slow compared to a basic. Like do you think evolving wilds is the best land in the game probably not. What about lands that tap for any color like secluded courtyard which doesn’t even come in tapped. Are they also too good? Also you can stifle the search effect making it the only land type susceptible to a counter spell type effect. Though the constant library searching can be annoying I don’t disagree on that point. Fetches are amazing for some decks and meh in others, but so are some other lands.

Nah. The shift in design philosophy to designing the entire game around Commander is what ruined the game for me. This is coming from someone who has been playing both Modern and Commander since 2011.

I agree with this when it comes to fetches that can grab dual lands. I think if they only made basic fetches it would make deck building much more of a give and take when it comes to 2+ color decks. Sure you could run 12 fetches with Terramorphic, Evolving, and Fabeled but then you had to have enough basics to grab and could not have a perfectly consistent mana base. I remeber when dual lands hadnt been reprinted and you hardly ever saw someone running a three color deck