Відео

You should take into account where the drive is aimed and where the drop is aimed. That made a lot of difference. Body shot drives (forehand shoulder area) seems to be a hard drive for a lot to counter. Just my opinion.

I would love to practice and hit 3rd shot drops more often, but the people I play against stay back at the baseline or move slowly to the NVZ on their return-of-serve so 3rd shot drives are what I hit most of the time.

Excellent video, I am always telling my students at our club to watch points being played at the below 4.0 level. I tell them the point is won within 5 shots...they hardly keep a rally longer than 5 shots.. Also players when they warm up , warm up incorrectly. They will dink for a few minutes and then say "Ready to Play". I tell them warm up your serve , your drive, your return, some volleys...You don't see a baseball pitcher toss a few balls and say, I'm ready to pitch. Keep up these videos...too many players are trying to play like the pros, and should bring it down a few levels and play within themselves.

"Thank you so much for posting the video and the stats! It’s incredibly helpful for all the players. Your insights are a game-changer and really make a difference in improving players skills. We all appreciate the time and effort you put into sharing this! Maybe the PPA could take some of your insight and start doing the same with all the $$ they’re making - it would definitely benefit the players and the game!"

I am loving this data analysis. Anecdotally I agree with you. So I'm hoping this is setting up your next video, which is how to do the drop? When the ball is low and slow I can drop, the faster deeper balls I have to drive because it's a low % drop for me.

I think a key clarification to make is case studying Quong Dong. He's one of the most aggressive males in pro pickleball. Yet his aggressiveness is relative- Quong still drops and dinks OFTEN. He's learned that he has to at the highest level. Modern pickleball being referenced from amateurs is really tough to compare to the pros. Aggressive pros still drop & dink more than you do if you're a 4.0-5.0 banger

I just saw your Say No to modern Pickleball, where you favored playing the kitchen, now this video starts with mentioning not putting too much attention to the kitchen lol

Poorly reading the ball with its bounce is your wife's primary issue. Also, have her take out the swing and minimize the swinging motion to just a punch on the ball to where she is getting 95% of her returns in deep and center. Then she can add the fancier stuff back in as her confidence and skills builds. But remember that the return serves is to first give you time to get up to the net while keeping the opponent back. Any other objects are secondary.

Even though he’s accepted the anglicized version and his initials as his name, thank you for saying his name like it is in Vietnamese!

I agree with the comment about the sample size being a bit too small. That being said, it seems to me that the differences that you found are just as likely to attributable to a raw difference in skill between the winning teams and the losing teams. The fact that they were playing at a “4.5” level doesn’t imply that they were equally as skilled. This is particularly true if you are looking at tournaments where the winning teams could very likely be true 4.5 level and the losing teams were 4.3, for example. There is still quite a bit of variability in the rating systems.

3:00 If you hit drives with this level of quality, you should only use them for DEFENSE against a monster return. Otherwise you're helping them to attack you. If you can hit 4.5 tennis-level drives, it's a different conversation.

Thanks for sharing

Why is he jumping the net is only 2 and half feet high

It’s bad for marriage to play with your spouses 😂. Also in mixed doubles, the female get targets a lot more.

Hey so I appreciate the numbers. Super awesome. Please don’t get yourself down because folks are saying not significant enough etc. Yes they are technically correct, but it doesn’t mean your numbers cannot be relied on. I feel in the future you can cover yourself by phrasing your statements as observations rather than conclusions. I for one really appreciate the sheer effort this took. You deserve a medal of sorts 🎉

Thank you for the comprehensive analysis. That is spot on regarding so many players adopting a 3rd shot drive and 5th shot drop. It seems like a shortcut in rec play. It turns out that practicing fundamental drop shots is less fun than a drive/drop combo shot......and less spectacular. It is no different than using a driver instead of a wedge on a golf range. Keep up the great content.

Are you associated with DUPR officially? Otherwise, I HIGHLY suggest you change your name.

It doesn't matter about drop or drive. What matters is where the balls land. Timing and knowing where your partner is are the keys. Date only shows numbers of players, not apply to all.

If you want to play at an advanced level, drop shots and the soft game is still essential. The drop shot is the most important shot in pickleball and always will be, unless they take the kitchen away. Dinking can be very beneficial, especially against bangers. Dinking is far more technical and makes your opponent move their feet. Bangers are typically terrible at this. I watch very good former tennis players try to bang/drive their way to a point in pickleball. They never get to the kitchen. This may work some of the time, but is not a consistent strategy to get bunches of points. The most offensive position is still up at the kitchen.

Love the data. I am a spreadsheets kind of guy!!!

Your analysis only truth if the 4.5 players respect the rule of NVZ(foot fault). I see too many competitive 4.5+ casual step into kitchen and punish a perfect reset. That is why the opponent just start blasting the ball at high speed. That is why modern game exists. Can’t rely on players integrity any more. People start set up camera at kitchen rather than whole court.

100% agree. It's a trend and most of the players at the lower levels who adapt it won't climb far. But they'll still think they're badass using it successfully on older 3.0's.

@superdupr.pickleball thanks for the great data analysis! I'm curious how you handled the scenario of 3rd shot drive 5th shot drop. I know a lot of players use this to try to obtain a more favorable ball to drop into the kitchen that will allow minimal return pressure so they can reach the kitchen. As long as a 5th shot drop is attempted I think this should count towards the "drop" data versus the "drive" scenario. Thoughts?

Thanks for the stats and the freedom from group think.

which one is you?

I love your approach but i also feel your data set is too small. The reason banger ball works isn’t just because the pros do it but that for many people driving is much more reliable then dropping. If you go to local amateur tournaments usually its the power players that win. pure Soft players are being phased out and just play rec now.

Justifies me banging every ball 😂

We need hawkeye lmao

If youre good at drives and speedups i think u should do them, if ur not then don't lol

It’s recreational PB. Play whichever way you have the most fun. Period.

Modern pickleball, like tennis, requires better mechanics, better athleticism, and better footwork. It is not for everybody. You have to us multiple grips, spins, angles, and absolutely must be able to hit with topspin on both sides. And just because it’s not the dominant style now, it will be. Talent always rises above tactic. Always.

Could you not have just watched Ben John’s style of play. Ben rarely would speed up a questionable shot, would wait for his opponent to speed up and the ball and then finish it.

This is not good analysis honestly the quality of the return is what dictates the correct play. Not to mention how ready the returning opponent is for the 4th shot

For me, the quality of the return dictates whether I'll hit a drop, drive or drip. If I get a shallow return, it's easy to hit a drop. If I get a deep return, I'm forced to hit a drive, because drops are a lower percentage shot from the baseline. The team hitting more deep returns is probably also hitting deep serves and generally keeping their opponents back and getting ahead in the point. This is my guess anyway. I'd be curious to hear how many of those drop shots are actually coming from the baseline.

Moneyball for Pickleball. I experienced this in Rec last week. Match starts and this guy is not driving at all, and so seems like an easy win. NOPE. Dude was a WALL and we got pasted. Every drive came back - not even with pace we drive and drive but he would pull us up to the kitchen and then beat us without breaking a sweat with consistent dinks and returned every speed up we gave him. He didn’t have to win. We beat ourselves like kids when they wild out in air hockey and score on themselves 😂

that's a pretty small amount of Data to base conclusions on

Any time I'm pulled wide and have to extend myself to hit the shot, its automatically a lob.

Great breakdown.

Good video. I like the statistical approach. But did you look at return quality at all? It could be that the losing teams had shorter returns, giving the winning teams easier drops, and that in fact, quality of the return dominated the results. I'm not saying that's what it was, but it's worth considering.

Agree, after more high quality third shot drop my games are change a lot!

Makes good sense as always. Thanks!

I like your videos, they give thoughtful reflection with data. That said, have you done a statistical relevance calculation as to whether the +1,400 shots you sampled are statistically significant? Thinking of p values here.

I really appreciate your topics backed up by data. Thank you

My understanding is that the Johns brothers broke up because of modern pickleball. That is, their opponents skipped the dink game and went for the speed up right off the bat.

I agree with the thesis, but I think that the logic of comparing winning team's behavior with only 4 games says more about those particular winning team's styles. It's a lot of shots, but only 4 teams

Thanks for this great video. I love stats, especially about something I love. Keep it up! (And what a clever channel name! New subscriber.) I am a 4.0 player about to hit my 70th birthday, and I win over 70% of the rec games I play by playing the soft game. Nearly all of the guys can hit better drives than I can, as I've played almost no Tennis and am just not a very large, strong man, but I still dominate them with the soft game and placement shots. Just the other day I played a game with a 71 year-old partner similar to me (I'm 5'7"; he's about 5'9"), against two six foot tall former college D1 Tennis players in their 40's and we won 11-3. Of the 40 or so people watching, I think my partner and I and two or three others were the only ones that understood what happened. Everyone else was shocked. They shouldn't have been; I've been telling them this for years.

Dinking is dead

I had the pleasure of watching four 6.0 players compete in the gold medal match at a tournament recently. The majority of their thirds were drops, perfectly executed, allowing the serving team to get to the kitchen easily. The rallies were then fought at the kitchen. All four players were using 2 handed backhands for their backhand dinks. Their dinks had a lot of pace on them and were quite challenging, but at their level, the opponents could handle them. Extended dink rallies of aggressive dinking. Firefights eventually ensued with an amazing display of counterattacks. All of those skills are required to compete at the highest levels.

You need to put the winning or losing team in big letters in middle of graph. Its the fine print now. By the time I found winnind or losing team you were way ahead.