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Dark Souls Advanced PvP Extra Credit: Mentality
Massive shout out to cestial and mothra for their assistance in the creative process and for providing bulk footage for usage in the video. It's been 2 years since my first video, but I was only able to get the motivation to finish something with their help.
Dark Souls PvP focused discord: discord.gg/YBMWEtB
Tech playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLwvNUIk9YHJ6Vn8DDM8SQu2fvgSDOcSH-.html
Dark Souls Advanced PvP 101: ua-cam.com/video/C-3FHTebNxY/v-deo.html
Playing to Win: www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win
Crame's Steam guides on Armor set ups: steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=797747166
and weapon breakdowns: steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=805438917
cestial: ua-cam.com/users/cestial
www.twitch.tv/cestial_
mothra: ua-cam.com/channels/51HyE-6W-FeT-1XN8Qkj4Q.html
www.twitch.tv/moth_ra
www.twitch.tv/subshadow123
Переглядів: 2 982

Відео

Expanding on the Wall Backstab
Переглядів 4,3 тис.6 років тому
EDIT: Due to the speculative nature of this video, most of the information presented in the explanation of this tech is outdated/incorrect. However, the info related to execution is still accurate, so take that as you will. This tech also turned out to be much more important for general play in the remaster than I had initially expected, so I'm glad I made the video regardless of the misinforma...
Dark Souls Advanced PvP 101
Переглядів 65 тис.7 років тому
Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:13 Latency 2:30 Netcode 3:24 "Facestabs" 6:09 Parry Bait (parrying backstab attempts) 7:00 Pivots 9:09 Soulmass/Pursuers Desync 10:32 Animation Priority 10:48 Animation Hierarchy and the Backstab 12:05 Parry Backstab 12:42 Perfect Blocks/Hyper Pivots/Quick Get-Up 12:56 Option Selects/Kick Confirms Up to date tech playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLwvNUIk9YHJ6Vn8DDM8SQu2fvgSDOc...

КОМЕНТАРІ

  • @kristofkarpati6360
    @kristofkarpati6360 Місяць тому

    Man... You need to go back to making videos or writing articles or whatever, can I find your material anywhere outside of UA-cam? Subscribed.

  • @ttzz
    @ttzz 5 місяців тому

    DO NOT SHARE THIS VIDEO, LET THE NOOBS SIT IN IGNORANCE FOR EZ FUN

  • @Enoch1212-m7g
    @Enoch1212-m7g 7 місяців тому

    All this bullshit makes pvp not fun.

  • @Dennis-ud2nh
    @Dennis-ud2nh 7 місяців тому

    You contradict your own statements since you say that backstabs will register according to local positions, but at the same time the enemy at 7:35 fails to backstab because you are not in a vulnerable position, even though you appear to still be to them locally.

    • @Sub-xo8uj
      @Sub-xo8uj 7 місяців тому

      A lot of it is pre-emptive timing, which I let the video illustrate visually at 8:11. Maybe it's not clear how I'm using the word "appear" in this context; on your opponents screen your movement suggests that you are committing to a strafe for a double backstab, only to remove your back from your opponents end locally at the last second. You can see this manipulation taking place in real time in the examples from the opponents view at 8:40.

    • @Sub-xo8uj
      @Sub-xo8uj 7 місяців тому

      It's also worth noting that this is technique is more dependent on when your opponent actually initiates the backstab with an R1 rather than your inherent position. You're trying to "bait" your opponent to pre-emptively commit to an R1 input by manipulating your movement and position relative to the delay it takes to appear on their end. Adjusting the timing is important because while on your end the turn is very clear, on your opponents end it happens just before they press R1 which results in them being locked into a light attack.

  • @Triads297
    @Triads297 8 місяців тому

    Only pvp ived liked in a souls game

  • @gromit1327
    @gromit1327 8 місяців тому

    I’m good at this

  • @anierikidemona
    @anierikidemona 11 місяців тому

    More relevant now. The average is like 3/4 people i encounter are 'face' backstabbing.

  • @firstsonofthegrey2662
    @firstsonofthegrey2662 Рік тому

    Scripted pvp is some what odd I've seen alot of that on there the devs know its some what real odd

  • @Kapato-qe9dm
    @Kapato-qe9dm Рік тому

    Soooooo... its shit pvp

  • @EricAjimine
    @EricAjimine Рік тому

    Still cannot pull it off but who knew this information would be useful for DSR where Estus wall healing is a thing.

  • @sneedmane
    @sneedmane Рік тому

    "Backstabs punish exposing your back" when you literally have a video on wallstabs where it's not even a backstab anymore,let alone frontstabs that do occur in DSR I am even more deeply convinced DS1 apologists are just outright pathetic, especially the kind that reminisces about raping newbies with +10 weapons in PTD (which I bet you would be in favor of, too) Also,if you believe that being against glitch abuse is scrub mentally, I might as well abuse TWOD in PvP, because according to you everyone that refuses to learn glitches is a tourneyf4g and has scrub mentality.

  • @Orl_oo
    @Orl_oo Рік тому

    how the fuck is backstabbing only fun at all bro i'm literally trying to chill with my friend in PVE and keep getting invaded + backstab

  • @Luhvvn
    @Luhvvn Рік тому

    Very nice video!!

  • @joshuacrumley2031
    @joshuacrumley2031 Рік тому

    So, people who complain about facestabs should stop bitching about bad net code and just "Git Gud" huh? Nah. FromSoft should "Git Gud" at writing net code.

    • @CherishHaze666
      @CherishHaze666 Рік тому

      Then why good players can avoid and counter backstabs ? The only ones who call it " facestabs " are the ones who don't know how backstabs work in the first place. Trust me, I was one of those who hated backstabs but kept playing and playing until I realized it was just part of the learning curve.

    • @furiousbanana
      @furiousbanana Рік тому

      ​@@CherishHaze666lol he gave no response for a reason

    • @sneedmane
      @sneedmane Рік тому

      "Then why good players can avoid a backstab?" Then tell me how do avoid hosts teleporting behind me when I'm standing against a wall fa99ot

    • @simple_most788
      @simple_most788 Рік тому

      that is literally a lie that didnt happen lol unless you provide some kind of clip@@sneedmane

    • @sneedmane
      @sneedmane Рік тому

      @simple_most788 literally another video of his on the channel explains how to sidestab near a wall Besides,I'm playing on steam deck , how the f am I supposed to record the footage Also lol @ "literally a lie," as if I would need to lie about dark souls 1 bad netcode

  • @austinhall9634
    @austinhall9634 Рік тому

    Anyone who wants to participate in my upcoming dark souls 1 pvp documentary, please PM me and I will invite you to the server. For too long has this games pvp been masked in a cloud of mixed and scattered information in the depths of youtube, streams, private videos, and gatekept communities. Together let us make light of this games unintendedly deceivingly deep, complex, and intricate pvp system. For all players new and old to find a renewed interest in the pvp because for the first time there is a single consolidated comprehensive guide to understanding and practically exploiting the games underlying mechanics, creating a more possibilities, more fun, more action pvp experience for everyone who wanted to learn but was withheld information from private communities of exclusive pvp veteran OGs or to those who never gave pvp a chance because it was so frustrating to die to backstabs and exploits you were either unaware of, didn't understand, or couldn't pull off for yourself. Lets remove the element of toxicity and restrictive expectations the pvp community of this game is so notorious for. This is one of the coolest most unique pvp experiences i've had in my gaming career and it took playing many hours and talking to many people to know what i know about the game, and yet there is still lots that i dont know. If you would like to Make Dark Souls PvP Great let us join forces to create the first all inclusive comprehensive documentary and guide as one last attempt to save the dwindling flame of the dark souls 1 pvp community (pm me for invite) discord: McBrungo#0273

  • @joemurray
    @joemurray Рік тому

    Have you got a weapon tier list thanks

  • @joemurray
    @joemurray Рік тому

    Have you got a weapon tier list thanks

  • @malikar_8623
    @malikar_8623 2 роки тому

    I'd like to see a count of how many "so THAT'S how they did that to me" moments from people who watched this video after being destroyed by a better player, mine was 4

    • @fruitytuesdayz5760
      @fruitytuesdayz5760 2 роки тому

      this was the video i watched to learn how to play better honestly one of the best vids ive ever seen for the topic. the facestabs made so much more sense after watching this glad u learned something aswell stick with the pvp its pretty good. but it is kinda dead

  • @belettho
    @belettho 2 роки тому

    Ty :)

  • @Forsaken__Mativa
    @Forsaken__Mativa 2 роки тому

    Wow what happened did you stop uploading for good ?.

  • @caterwick
    @caterwick 2 роки тому

    I SEE SUB

  • @Blammbeck
    @Blammbeck 2 роки тому

    Coming here to state that the launcher mentality is more apt than the grab terminology that I've often used, and I'll more often than not be using it for the future, so thank you. However, I still think the best form of a rebalance for backstabs are to treat it as a grab damage-wise instead of giving it critical damage. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen, but so it goes. Also, although the video's years old, I still appreciate the fact that DkS I PvP is still going strong in a way that belies most people's expectations of it and continuous attempts at retrofixing that only seeks to destroy what was already fundamentally interesting in the game's combat with its first inception - and first refinement ala DkS I. Just remember: scrub isn't just a mentality, it's a praxis. Effective demagogue that seems to conflate the casual vs competitive conflict on both sides, wiping away repeatedly at both in due time until its wiped clean of every interesting identifier. It's undeniably selfish if not metered by fundamental understanding and critique. Sounds unnecessarily tryhardy, but just take a look at the current state of things and compare them to this and you'll see what I mean. That's enough out of me. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, man.

  • @zelven6109
    @zelven6109 2 роки тому

    Elden ring when?

  • @ObiJuanKenob
    @ObiJuanKenob 2 роки тому

    Any great videos like this one out there that covers the different weapons as it pertains to the pvp meta? Like a tierlist depicting frame date, move sets and the overall outlook as to why X weapon beats Y weapon and so forward? Haven't been able to find anything serious appart from this god tier vid.

  • @BadAtGaming100
    @BadAtGaming100 2 роки тому

    ….you had me at your disclaimer. *deeply bows* thank you

  • @dawnbreakerii204
    @dawnbreakerii204 2 роки тому

    so basically for all the people who dont like backstabs, either: get used to it and abuse it like everyone else or stop playing :)

  • @john2igh782
    @john2igh782 2 роки тому

    It's been two years, Sub's next video should come out this year.

  • @TheDaytontube
    @TheDaytontube 3 роки тому

    like its super cool how there is a completely different Strategy to playing this game, BUT it feels like builds don't really matter if all you do is bait for backstabs. idk just not as enjoyable and Ds2/3 for pvp imo

    • @fruitytuesdayz5760
      @fruitytuesdayz5760 Рік тому

      has higher skill ceiling and skill expression. thats why i love this game more.

  • @THECRAZEBLING
    @THECRAZEBLING 3 роки тому

    3:49 I'm sorry, but no amount of information that you're delivering to us is not going to convince me to give the PVP in this game a fair chance. I should't HAVE to estimate how much ping someone has. I shouln't HAVE to be paired up with someone with a different ping than mine. The game shouldn't NEED to be this fucking trash in this regard, but it is. It's fucking TRASH.

    • @Sub-xo8uj
      @Sub-xo8uj 3 роки тому

      That's fine, no one is forcing you to play. While there's a persuasive element to the video, it's predominantly informative of the foundational elements used in meta play. If you don't like what you see, or you've tried it and don't like it, then you know to steer clear.

    • @fruitytuesdayz5760
      @fruitytuesdayz5760 2 роки тому

      doesnt win = bad. noob mindset stick to dark souls 3 where the skill floor and ceiling are a flatline

  • @malkavian6275
    @malkavian6275 3 роки тому

    Long live dark souls 1 pvp, the best in the series

  • @redwolf3439
    @redwolf3439 3 роки тому

    thanks buddy

  • @ThreeGoddesses
    @ThreeGoddesses 3 роки тому

    So darksouls pvp is a complete and total mess and you need to know network engineering to git gud. Exactly what I want to hear, a game community that advocates that seeing someone teleport behind you into a one shot backstab somehow makes them more skilled then you.

    • @ThreeGoddesses
      @ThreeGoddesses 3 роки тому

      I shouldnt be punished because I have a solid connection and someone else doesnt.

    • @blenky5516
      @blenky5516 3 роки тому

      @@ThreeGoddesses Your 2nd statement isnt correct, as it goes both ways actually. Everytime you fight someone different, you will need to condition yourself to their latency. Imagine both parties put into different arenas where the laws of physics change with every player, in this case timings on when to pivot, how long to standstill, etc Its ironicly intimate to take the time and understand your opponent's lat, same as them as well. The beauty of this game is that, it allows you to adapt said to said latency and have fun regardless of how high or low it is, you just have to put effort in it. This also nicely segways into the issue of other competitive games being ruined by bad connection. Dks's pvp is genuinely one of the best examples of a happy accident and it does not suffer from that. Although in the end, its your choice to put in the effort for said fun. I fully understand that you don't enjoy this game's pvp but please don't simply brush it off to just lagstab, lagstab, lagstab

  • @aoneko6813
    @aoneko6813 3 роки тому

    Ooh, interesting that other people have called backstabs "throws". I think of them as throws myself, that's because I'm a fighting game player. The reason why i see them as more or less the same thing is because in the fighting game I come from (Tekken), throws are actually somewhere between 10-20 frames in startup in general. (contrasted by dark souls which if I'm not mistaken, have 0 startup frames.) But because they're often used when you're focused on blocking, it seems like it has no startup frames because of how distracted you usually are in the situations when they're applied. I hope that made sense. The other reason is because in Tekken, (much like Dark Souls) throws from behind deal around 2/3s of your life. They also end in your opponent being on the ground after the animation has ended. So the damage and the resulting situation is very similar. I believe other 3d fighters are similar in thease two regards, but I'm unsure.

  • @dotisopod
    @dotisopod 3 роки тому

    motivates me, even now.

  • @doctormadness4167
    @doctormadness4167 3 роки тому

    I like how you say the depth is ignored by non willingness to learn the backstabbing game but ironically enough it's a gimmick mastered by only those willing and used as the ONLY option eliminating ALL other offensive choices. As a seasoned competitive fighting game player dark souls plays very much like a fighting game.. but when you aim to force lag to abuse for backstabbing (doing nothing else) it looks and sounds just as dull and degenerate as you've displayed. I love the game and the pvp when fighting experienced players like myself who don't rely bug level exploitation back stabbing. I can't imagine anyone defending this as fun without dedicating time to learn it and using it on everyone ignorant of the exploit. Trying to find a solution to this game breaking jank and I find that it is the only viable option.. may as well stick to other Souls pvp..

    • @fruitytuesdayz5760
      @fruitytuesdayz5760 2 роки тому

      its actually got a sufficiently deep gameplay when both players are good. the problem is nobody wants to put in the time cuz it looks weird. also apparently u are unwilling to learn the backstab meta game which is ironically why u believe this since u don't have much knowledge on it. most of the tech in the game is avoiding backstabs in super tryhard scenarios backstabs are way less common than in oolacile fighting Havel mom great clubs.

    • @sneedmane
      @sneedmane Рік тому

      If you think exploiting exclusively one game gimmick as a legit strategy you probably should be playing melee instead

  • @hakametal
    @hakametal 3 роки тому

    Man I love the jank.

  • @sheldondturtleeatinglettuc1960
    @sheldondturtleeatinglettuc1960 3 роки тому

    watched it again i likey

    • @chrisbl1727
      @chrisbl1727 3 роки тому

      Sheldon send me ur pfp on Discord, looks pog

  • @CriminalizeObesity
    @CriminalizeObesity 3 роки тому

    "When you optimize the fun out of the game" on a whole new level

    • @fruitytuesdayz5760
      @fruitytuesdayz5760 2 роки тому

      Honestly high skill level pvp feels pretty good in this game i could imagine that it sucks for newer players though

  • @vicowboy999
    @vicowboy999 3 роки тому

    this is the video some weird reddit nerd will send you

  • @UntilxThexSunxDies
    @UntilxThexSunxDies 3 роки тому

    Sl 125 meta in 2021 is cancer xD I can't figure out when to be rude or nice. People backstab me in my gestures and I don't understand the edict lol I started interrupting peoples fights and it seems that it gets you a very good carvings xD Bipolar respect I guess

    • @fruitytuesdayz5760
      @fruitytuesdayz5760 Рік тому

      etiquette is as follows. dont duel in the township dont expect honor dont bow pre fight basically. fight host. if its a gravelord just rave out and backstab as many people as you can. 6 man gravelord FFA is really fucking fun

  • @nonevahed5559
    @nonevahed5559 3 роки тому

    6:40 Wanted to check if I understand this bit. So, they're seeing your back on their screen. So if you hadn't parried, it would have been a backstab, correct? But since on your screen you're facing towards them, and had your parry active on the frame they attacked, that backstab gets turned into an R1 that can be parried.

    • @Sub-xo8uj
      @Sub-xo8uj 3 роки тому

      You're on the right track. I apologize if this wasn't explained clearly in the video, but this trick is not dependant on local hit detection nor the act of parrying for its execution. Moreso, it's reliant on the delay between where you are in relation to where you appear to be on your opponents' screen. The idea is to bait your opponent into engaging in a double-backstab without ever putting your back in a position on their screen to initiate it. The reason why you reverse your movement so early (and also where the fundamental difficulty of this comes in) is to compensate for latency. You lead your opponent with your movement for just long enough to make them pre-emptively press the attack button in anticipation for your back to be in position. This results in your opponent missing your back and swinging at the air, creating an opening that can be punished in a variety of ways. Being consistent at this requires you to quickly and accurately gauge the amount of delay between you and your opponent, and either speed up or delay the timing of when you pull back.

  • @fistofram5526
    @fistofram5526 3 роки тому

    This videos are so fucking stupid. No, it's not about skill. It's about ABUSING the latency system of a game, and everyone who does it is a shit player, sorry.

  • @blenky5516
    @blenky5516 3 роки тому

    Impractical you say?.... Not on latent af switch remastered latt :mothron: Characters are so delayed, that the "quick movement" that causes the tech to fail doesn't occur, hehehehe

  • @angryflipflop1920
    @angryflipflop1920 3 роки тому

    We’re still waiting for pvp 102 :(