- 312
- 113 118
The Space InBetween
New Zealand
Приєднався 5 жов 2020
Welcome to the Brave UX with Brendan Jarvis podcast, your go-to destination for exploring the intersection of UX research, design, and product. Do you share a passion for developing and launching products that deliver superior and ethical experiences? If so, join your host, Brendan Jarvis, as he talks to industry and thought leaders in UX, product management, and product design. Get inspired and informed, and challenge yourself to become a better leader and think outside the canvas, both in what you do and occasionally in who you are.
Abby Covert - Ethical Design in Tech Spaces
Today, our special guest is Abby Covert, Chief Sensemaker at the Sensemaker Club. Join Brendan as he interviews Abby, an information architect, author, and community leader in UX design. Abby shares insights into her work in UX design, the importance of customer feedback, and her journey as an author. They discuss topics such as misdiagnosis, neurodivergent experiences, the evolution of information architecture, ethical responsibility in tech, and effective communication through diagrams. Take advantage of this insightful and thought-provoking conversation.
Highlights include:
0:00 - Introduction and Abby's Accomplishments
3:17 - Abby's Experience of Buying a House
6:45 - Abby's Book "How to Make Sense of Any Mess"
13:01 - Friendship with Christina Wodtke
16:56 - Abby’s Work and Life OKRs
20:45 - Decision to Become a "Digital Recluse"
26:10 - Experience of Being Diagnosed with ADHD
37:56 - Abby's Journey in Information Architecture (IA)
44:28 - Challenges in Promoting Ethical Responsibility in UX Design
Who is Abby Covert
Abby Covert is an information architect, writer, and community organizer with two decades of experience helping people make sense of messes. In addition to being an active mentor to those new to sensemaking, she has also served the design community as President of the Information Architecture Institute, co-chair of the Information Architecture Summit, and Executive Producer of the I.D.E.A Conference.
Abby is a founding faculty member of the School of Visual Arts’ Products of Design graduate program. She also managed the team that helped Rosenfeld Media start the Design Operations Summit and Advancing Research Conference. Her most proud achievement is coming up with the idea for World Information Architecture Day, which brings accessibly priced education to thousands in their local communities annually.
Abby has written two books for her students. In 2014, she published How to Make Sense of Any Mess, a book to teach IA to everybody. In 2022, she released her much-anticipated follow-up, Stuck? Diagrams Help. She currently spends her time making things that help you make the unclear clear, many of which she makes available for free on her website, abbycovert.com or at accessible price points in her popular Etsy shop, AbbytheIA.
Find Abby Here:
Abby Covert on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/abbytheia/
Sensemaker Club on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/the-sensemakers-club/
Sensemaker Club Website: www.thesensemakersclub.com/
Abby Covert’s Book How to Make Sense of Any Mess: www.amazon.com/s?k=how+to+make+sense+of+any+mess&crid=TB64WB2L0UT1&sprefix=how+to+make+sense+of+any+me%2Caps%2C387&ref=nb_sb_noss_2
Subscribe to Brave UX
Like what you heard and want to hear more? Subscribe and support the show by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts (or wherever you listen).
Apple Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/brave-ux-with-brendan-jarvis/id1552607805
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/7j2ocni6A00fzgHkj6TtCK
UA-cam: ua-cam.com/play/PLuS3MwKX_YAVtsg-nJJMF4CkF_u3qbsyx.html
Podbean: braveux.podbean.com/
Follow us on our other social channels for more great Brave UX content!
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/the-space-in-between/
Instagram: thespaceinbetw__n
Brendan Jarvis hosts the Show, and you can find him here:
Brendan Jarvis on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/brendanjarvis/
The Space InBetween Website: thespaceinbetween.co.nz/
Highlights include:
0:00 - Introduction and Abby's Accomplishments
3:17 - Abby's Experience of Buying a House
6:45 - Abby's Book "How to Make Sense of Any Mess"
13:01 - Friendship with Christina Wodtke
16:56 - Abby’s Work and Life OKRs
20:45 - Decision to Become a "Digital Recluse"
26:10 - Experience of Being Diagnosed with ADHD
37:56 - Abby's Journey in Information Architecture (IA)
44:28 - Challenges in Promoting Ethical Responsibility in UX Design
Who is Abby Covert
Abby Covert is an information architect, writer, and community organizer with two decades of experience helping people make sense of messes. In addition to being an active mentor to those new to sensemaking, she has also served the design community as President of the Information Architecture Institute, co-chair of the Information Architecture Summit, and Executive Producer of the I.D.E.A Conference.
Abby is a founding faculty member of the School of Visual Arts’ Products of Design graduate program. She also managed the team that helped Rosenfeld Media start the Design Operations Summit and Advancing Research Conference. Her most proud achievement is coming up with the idea for World Information Architecture Day, which brings accessibly priced education to thousands in their local communities annually.
Abby has written two books for her students. In 2014, she published How to Make Sense of Any Mess, a book to teach IA to everybody. In 2022, she released her much-anticipated follow-up, Stuck? Diagrams Help. She currently spends her time making things that help you make the unclear clear, many of which she makes available for free on her website, abbycovert.com or at accessible price points in her popular Etsy shop, AbbytheIA.
Find Abby Here:
Abby Covert on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/abbytheia/
Sensemaker Club on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/the-sensemakers-club/
Sensemaker Club Website: www.thesensemakersclub.com/
Abby Covert’s Book How to Make Sense of Any Mess: www.amazon.com/s?k=how+to+make+sense+of+any+mess&crid=TB64WB2L0UT1&sprefix=how+to+make+sense+of+any+me%2Caps%2C387&ref=nb_sb_noss_2
Subscribe to Brave UX
Like what you heard and want to hear more? Subscribe and support the show by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts (or wherever you listen).
Apple Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/brave-ux-with-brendan-jarvis/id1552607805
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/7j2ocni6A00fzgHkj6TtCK
UA-cam: ua-cam.com/play/PLuS3MwKX_YAVtsg-nJJMF4CkF_u3qbsyx.html
Podbean: braveux.podbean.com/
Follow us on our other social channels for more great Brave UX content!
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/the-space-in-between/
Instagram: thespaceinbetw__n
Brendan Jarvis hosts the Show, and you can find him here:
Brendan Jarvis on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/brendanjarvis/
The Space InBetween Website: thespaceinbetween.co.nz/
Переглядів: 90
Відео
Whitney Hess - Coaching with Presence and Purpose
Переглядів 6121 день тому
Today, our special guest is Whitney Hess, Founder and Executive Coach of Vicarious Partners Inc. We discuss the power of bravery, vulnerability, and personal growth. Discover how to overcome fear, cultivate self-awareness, and embrace failure as a stepping stone toward success. With practical tips and inspiring stories, this podcast is a must-listen for anyone looking to live a more courageous ...
Doreen Lorenzo - Design is a Craft, Perfected With Practice
Переглядів 101Місяць тому
Today, our special guest is Doreen Lorenzo, Assistant Dean at the University of Texas School of Design and Creative Technology. Doreen discusses the challenges and opportunities in the design industry and shares her insights as a design leader while emphasizing the importance of training and skill development. They also explore her journey from Frog Design to the University of Texas and her pas...
Nick Fine, PhD - The Future of UX in an AI World
Переглядів 383Місяць тому
Nick Fine, PhD - The Future of UX in an AI World
Brave UX: Q Walker - The Information Architecture of Emojis
Переглядів 1122 місяці тому
Brave UX: Q Walker - The Information Architecture of Emojis
Brave UX: Greg Petroff - Practical Executive Design Leadership
Переглядів 1572 місяці тому
Brave UX: Greg Petroff - Practical Executive Design Leadership
Brave UX: Ari Zelmanow - Becoming a More Influential Researcher
Переглядів 1503 місяці тому
Brave UX: Ari Zelmanow - Becoming a More Influential Researcher
Brave UX: Vidya Dinamani - The Rebel's Guide to Making Great Products
Переглядів 1433 місяці тому
Brave UX: Vidya Dinamani - The Rebel's Guide to Making Great Products
Brave UX: Suj Premachandran - Bringing the Power of UX Design to Children
Переглядів 2113 місяці тому
Brave UX: Suj Premachandran - Bringing the Power of UX Design to Children
Brave UX: Andy Vitale - Scaling Your Design Organisation
Переглядів 1304 місяці тому
Brave UX: Andy Vitale - Scaling Your Design Organisation
Brave UX: Ben Sauer - Presenting High-Stakes Design Work
Переглядів 1084 місяці тому
Brave UX: Ben Sauer - Presenting High-Stakes Design Work
Brave UX: Aylin Uysal - Leading a Global Enterprise UX Design Org
Переглядів 2105 місяців тому
Brave UX: Aylin Uysal - Leading a Global Enterprise UX Design Org
Brave UX: Monal Chokshi - Growing Impactful UX Research Organisations
Переглядів 2255 місяців тому
Brave UX: Monal Chokshi - Growing Impactful UX Research Organisations
Brave UX: Jakob Nielsen, PhD - Plainspoken, Hard-hitting and Unorthodox
Переглядів 8036 місяців тому
Brave UX: Jakob Nielsen, PhD - Plainspoken, Hard-hitting and Unorthodox
Brave UX: Justin Dauer - Finding Fulfilment: A Designer's Journey
Переглядів 1756 місяців тому
Brave UX: Justin Dauer - Finding Fulfilment: A Designer's Journey
Brave UX: Rob Hamblen - Behind the Scenes of World-Class Design Sprints
Переглядів 1577 місяців тому
Brave UX: Rob Hamblen - Behind the Scenes of World-Class Design Sprints
Brave UX: Adam Perlis - How to Get the Design Job You Want
Переглядів 1737 місяців тому
Brave UX: Adam Perlis - How to Get the Design Job You Want
Brave UX: Ash Ivory - Motorcycle Metaphors for Navigating Work/Life
Переглядів 948 місяців тому
Brave UX: Ash Ivory - Motorcycle Metaphors for Navigating Work/Life
Brave UX: Rakesh Patwari - Becoming a Better Design Leader
Переглядів 2938 місяців тому
Brave UX: Rakesh Patwari - Becoming a Better Design Leader
Brave UX: Janna Kimel - Stephen Hawking and Sewing Accessible Threads
Переглядів 1889 місяців тому
Brave UX: Janna Kimel - Stephen Hawking and Sewing Accessible Threads
Brave UX: Alen Faljic - Creating Business Confident Designers
Переглядів 2269 місяців тому
Brave UX: Alen Faljic - Creating Business Confident Designers
Brave UX: Clara Kliman-Silver - Orchestrating Effective Research & Design
Переглядів 16810 місяців тому
Brave UX: Clara Kliman-Silver - Orchestrating Effective Research & Design
Brave UX: Hang Xu - Radically Reinventing Design Recruitment
Переглядів 71011 місяців тому
Brave UX: Hang Xu - Radically Reinventing Design Recruitment
Brave UX: A’verria Martin, PhD - Building Bridges, ReOps, and Presence
Переглядів 19811 місяців тому
Brave UX: A’verria Martin, PhD - Building Bridges, ReOps, and Presence
Brave UX: Alla Weinberg - Designing a Culture of Safety
Переглядів 291Рік тому
Brave UX: Alla Weinberg - Designing a Culture of Safety
Brave UX: Jane Portman - The Harsh Reality of Startup Design
Переглядів 232Рік тому
Brave UX: Jane Portman - The Harsh Reality of Startup Design
Brave UX: Wendy Johansson - Effecting Change in a Messy World
Переглядів 174Рік тому
Brave UX: Wendy Johansson - Effecting Change in a Messy World
Brave UX: Ronnie Battista - Strategically Designing for Goosebumps
Переглядів 420Рік тому
Brave UX: Ronnie Battista - Strategically Designing for Goosebumps
Brave UX: Jon Fukuda - Creating a Design-Integrated Organisation
Переглядів 268Рік тому
Brave UX: Jon Fukuda - Creating a Design-Integrated Organisation
Brave UX: Satyam Kantamneni - Leveraging the Business Value of Design
Переглядів 1,2 тис.Рік тому
Brave UX: Satyam Kantamneni - Leveraging the Business Value of Design
Democratisation as involving stakeholders rather than delegating all your menial research tasks -- or even your future career -- is quite revealing. I have also noticed former academics who became strategic UXers or Research Ops leaders while wanting to keep the flexible lifestyle which they hoped academia would give them. More globally, it is increasingly popular to want to "lead" others and present keynotes at global conferences rather than to execute the gritty work. Possibly a semi-traumatic experience of doing a PhD and the pressure to "publish and/or perish", while simultaneously raking in research funding and teaching first-year undergraduates... However stimulating and enriching a PhD and an academic career can also be. At the same time, reflective practice, and taking time off just for that, is indeed a timeless skill, which former academics can be quite good at. It's the only way to learn and grow from mistakes to then be able to discuss these with others 💎.
Great conversation. Self-appointed or assigned labels are like sticky notes, they only stick for so long...
Brilliant conversation! Also gives me hopes that one day one can perhaps share one's experiences back to the next generation(s) via teaching.
Apple picking is very popular in Sweden too... But it's never just about the apples, of course. Plus there are so many more apple varieties than we can commonly find in mainstream outlets -- as opposed to heritage varieties that independent orchards may cultivate and re-popularise. Could the Fourth Industrial Revolution and the need for speed in producing anything further impoverish the experience of how we design, look for and consume information and make us lose sight of inherent nuance and complexity?
Nice one Alen!
Somehow came for ADHD stayed for UX
Asking Andy in depth questions about the diving the ship wreckage was very cool. Brendan is an excellent conversationalist!
Hey Eric. Pleased to hear you enjoyed the conversation! Andy's got some great stories to tell.
Thanks for continuously facilitating insightful and inspiring conversations about design, research and product management with leading figures ⭐. The Brave UX podcast reveals the individual and aspirations behind the practitioner in a way that no other podcast does.
Hi Ian. It's my pleasure. It's great to know you're getting value out of them. Thank you for your thoughtful comments over the years! Cheers, Brendan.
From this excellent podcast and others, it is nice to see there is quite a crowd of former PhD researchers making a valuable contribution to the field, each bringing some of their personal interests and preferred methodologies in -- at least partial -- alignment with different business and industry values. Many thanks for yet another inspiring conversation with practical insights.⭐ I also find there should be more bridges between academia and industry than there currently is ; glass walls and ivory towers are good material for existentialist and dystopian science fiction novels but less so for working together to deliver great products, services and experiences. For one, greater interaction between academia and industry could help leverage more critical pragmatism and iron out excesses in either obsessive or negligent ethical processes and frameworks. Also, university-community engagement and industry partnerships do not have to compromise independence and perspective -- if independence there ever was in higher education from either state funding in the past or the current performance-led managerial models. Reflexive, relatable and respectful research requires balance and a good measure of common sense from smart, creative people. And wiggle room to try stuff out and learn from things that will likely 'fail' in the short term, but contribute to meaningful 'growth' in the longer term.
It has been a long time since I heard such clarity on many issues that concern me about ux research. Ari brilliantly yet simply articulates some points I needed to connect about: What really matters to the business? How to get the business to listen to us? Thank you Brendan for this content of such quality and value.
You're very welcome. I'm pleased that you enjoyed our conversation.
Two fundamental take-aways from my end: 1) everyone is pretty much figuring out their job as they go along -- i.e. 'winging it' (which does not preclude that one may somehow get good at one's job) 2) the corporate emphasis on shareholder value and profitability does not place humanism and in-house training and peer-support as a priority, which helps to explain point 1. In such context, I feel I can more readily accept that imposter syndrome is optional rather than a must-have. That is possibly one of the greatest promises of humanist endeavours to let quality shine forth, because there a timeless quality about good design, whether such quality is actually engineered, manufactured and reaped sustainably.
Ian, thank you for always posting such considered comments.
Design of everyday thing, Literally changed my perspective .
A great listen, Sujith is very insightful. Keep up the good work and keep chipping away. You are correct, UK education system is very resistant to change
Great to hear that you enjoyed our conversation! ~Brendan
Excellent convo
Pleased to hear you enjoyed it! ~Brendan
Thank you for the insightful ways of nurturing stellar design teams. Collecting hundreds of pairs of sneakers can undoubtedly help to walk in users' shoes in style... It seems attention to excellence and quality can shine in many different areas of life. Surrounding oneself with excellence (in any shape or form) helps to breed just that and show it at work and beyond.
A beautiful and most inspiring conversation ⭐
I never was (and never will be) a race runner but the professional marathon and the many tips which Monal shares are invaluable. Never lose your north star. Leveraging the influence of research can/should be a compelling conversation rather than elbowing or speaking louder than others. Joe Natoli also highlights the importance of humility and patience alongside craft, acumen and professional dignity, to help enrich product decisions. Change can happen slowly which itself can be a positive opportunity to test what works. Many thanks for the inspiring conversation. ⭐
Man, I love how people assume small businesses have all this capital and knowledge and not realize we are just trying to make money like everybody else and do the best that we can
Great Convo
Pleased you enjoyed! ~Brendan
[4/9 1:56 PM] Shelton, Dana there's gotta be a way to use copilot to give us better summaries of the page in a screen reader experience
Same wavelength on this idea. The screen reader is painful to watch and AI is much better at summarizing than our manual heading tags. Listening to current state screen readers are the equivalent of calling someone on a rotary phone and messing up the last number while having a commercial disregard the appropriate volume level you've set for your tv and scream everything that they say in their ad at a jarringly loud level of bark... I don't get who signed off on it, it's awful. Why do we have to go through every single h1 before we get to the actions? It's not the same experience, why are we insisting on forcing the user to navigate the same way? We can do better. Well we can make the machines do better for us which is even better.
Thanks for always asking top notch questions Brendan! Such great episodes!
You're welcome. Great to hear that you're enjoying the show! ~Brendan
Omg! Noelle was so good at Future State! Can't wait to go through this episode. 🙏
damn mike is just so stunning and brave, this web design pamphlet kills fascists. what would we ever do without him saying fuck and shit
Sharing this invaluable conversation with colleagues ahead of Global Accessibility Awareness Day 📌
Thank you, Ian. Hope they get some value from it as well. ~ Brendan
Awesome Episode mate! Superb.
Glad you enjoyed it! ~Brendan
:48 = - "...anytime a designer is not designing, they are doing operations".......... you can extrapolate that out......anytime someone is not doing their HVA (highest value activity) they are doing operations!
Great expansion! ~ Brendan
so many mixed feelings, but I made it to the end. Great interview! Thank you for giving Mike the time to elaborate.
Glad to hear you made it! What were your mixed feelings? ~Brendan
@@TheSpaceInBetween I love how outspoken Mike is and how he seems to have a take-no-prisioners approach, but I also felt an overwhelming amount of wokeness and hard left leaning attitude. Many times I was about to close the tab, but I liked how you carried the interview and Mike's wisdow can't be denied. I wonder why he comes across to angry. BTW Brendan it is a crime this channel has so few subs. I have passed it on to somee UX coworkers.
Thank you for sharing more about what it was like to watch this episode. Mike certainly is a force to be reckoned with! About the channel's subs: Haha. Thank you for sharing the pod with your coworkers! I hope they find value in the content. ~Brendan
Cross-cultural UX research seems essential for internalisation but also to reach diverse populations within countries as well. Opportunities for deep ethnography may however be limited in corporate environments in reaching out to end-users. Lots of actionable insights from this conversation to apply in other situations.
Great to see that people in industry who were in academia and keep reflecting very actively. Another inspiring conversation in a long-spanning series, many thanks for this. Also echoes with the reflective conversation with Bill Albert, about straddling action and interpretation, and shifting between academic and product roles which can otherwise seem rather antagonistic.
Really enjoyed this interview.
That's great to hear! Cheers, Brendan.
Thank you Brendan for another deep conversation about the practice of UX, and the life of the practitioner that generates it, which can benefit countless designers and researchers. The most inspiring and useful podcast series I've come across 💎💎💎
Hi Ian. Hope you're well. Thank you for sharing how you feel about the series. It's wonderful to hear that it's making a positive impact! Cheers, Brendan.
Excellent interview. Thank you, Hang!
This is absolutely my favorite interview so far! Splendid job both Brendan and Satyam!
It's great to hear that you enjoyed our conversation! ~Brendan
This was awesome. Time well spent!
Great to hear! ~Brendan
Brilliant session.
Great to hear that you enjoyed! ~ Brendan
Yet another brilliant conversation that reveals the full person behind the practitioner, delivered through an engaging conversational mode. Well done! I keep learning so much for my work and personal engagement with user research. Brave UX is arguably one of the best UX podcast series, along with the likes of Jason Ogle's historical UX Defenders 🦸♂🌟
Hi Ian. It's great to hear that you found value in this conversation and the others in the series that you've listened to. No better reward! Cheers, Brendan.
Thanks for the video.
You're welcome! ~Brendan
Fantastic conversation! Thank you :) (extra kudos to you Brendan for leading the conversation in such a great way)
Really pleased to hear you enjoyed it! Cheers mate, Brendan.
What exactly is the right thing? Put the wrong person in place to produce subpar results that affect us ALL just so you can satisfy Blackrock? Fact is DEI is BS and the people don't want it. Just ask Target and Bud Light.
I enjoyed listening to that. I have the honour of being Ronnie's guitarist and ex-Rugby League team mate. His passion and drive are the same now as they were then.
Thank you Brendan. I enjoyed listening to our conversation - enough time had passed that I couldn’t fully recall how much ground we’d covered.
Is this what developer wants? I'm in the middle of moving from the "old school" feature approach to "empowered" teams - and I'm far from convinced about the benefits. Sounds more like a workaround to the actual problem: Collaboration between the business and the IT department. So the solution should be that the development team needs to be experts on the business side of things as well AND data driven? Because, remember - by empowered you need all the skills within the team. The examples and the comments here seems to relate more with a relation to a programmer than a systems engineer. If you give a solution to an engineer he or she will naturally want to take care and refine it, Hence improving the product. It's hard enough today to keep track of the technical side of things - if developers needs to do BI as well? Well, something is going to suffer -> less coding and less happy devs. Yes, I know - more code doesn't equal more productivity. Especially if the code you're writing isn't for the features the customer wants. But that's my point - the business should be the experts on what the customers wants. Developers are experts on how to solve problems most efficiently given the current conditions. So I hear the argument: We've implemented this and all our developer are really excited! Are they? Are they really? How many consultants does your team consist off? That's my first question...
OK Don. First of all, we have to design this system in a way that is not profit-oriented. We must destroy income inequality and the caste system. Then, maybe without these "genius" company owners (sure they are not genius, they are just ambitious about money) we can sustain our environment, and later we can talk about this "circular" economic model? Or these words you said just looks to me as a new capitalistic anti-trend like "Sustainable fashion" or "Modern hippies"
The guest speaker is AMAZING. Thank you for this great lessons 🙏
You're most welcome! Cheers, Brendan.
This interview adds so much value to the UX community! Thank you for providing this space!
Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers, Brendan.
14:25 shift+return these days but uve to press (and hold) the shift key first here in the yt comment section return by itself does the line skip thing tho
So many insights here. A must-watch/listen!
Very Inspiring! Thank you!
You are so welcome!
Pity she included her woke political stance. Has nothing to do with UX. Really put me off, that she went on to say "oh finally youtube bans misinformation". What a shortsighted comment pro censorship. Did she ever think about what "harm" that causes?
Thanks for sharing your views. These conversations do sometimes wander outside the bounds of UX practice.
These are golden advice. Really appreciate this video
It's great to hear that you found value in our conversation!