After reading We Are Everywhere, it is astonishing and also really sad to see this is where Jerry ended up ideologically. You read Marx and you think neoliberalism is the answer?? Insane
I guess at the end of the day both speakers got what they wanted: the Baby Boomers inevitably came to dominate the political arena but not in perhaps the ways they would have liked. The Baby Boomers ultimately gave us George W. Bush and Trump and are willing to tear this country apart to reinstate the latter, through any means necessary.
Tbh, I'm ambivalent about both arguments here. I understand it's important, especially in these rather troubling and dystopian times in Trump-era America, to maintain your principles and values against the grain and capriciousness of society. That being said, unfortunately in hyper-capitalistic America, you do often have to sell your soul to achieve meaningful change, including the possibility of working for Wall Street to accrue the money that would maybe one day allow you to affect meaningful change in society. On a personal note, while Rubin maybe had a point here and there in his argument, I don't think him in real life peddling pyramid schemes towards the end of his life did any favors for his philosophy lol.
We never really needed anyone to change their heart and minds. We only needed Political Reform. We still need Political Reform. It's kinda Narcissistic to expect everyone else to believe in the things that you believe.
Jerry is not the first left radical who chose to become a corporate shil and a**hole, although I am sure he would argue that he was being a more effective change agent through embracing capitalism rather than trying to overthrow it. Working from inside the system to change the system. Of course those who work in the system, become the system, and the system changes you long before you will ever be able to change it. Where is the visionary entrepreneurial leadership that Jerry is putting all his faith in? Truth is those business leaders are no more willing to redistribute power and wealth downward to the majority of the people, than any of the gilded age 19th century robber baron capitalists were. And Abbie is totally right to point out the obvious fact that entrepreneurial success is going to be the exception and not the norm, and the majority who work for a living are still going to be exploited by their employers in order to maximize profits and keep wages as low as possible, and to keep workers in subjugation to the business elites. Yes I get that the usual criticism from the left often engages in caricature and stale cliche stereotypes of business and the wealthy, however just because there may be occasional exceptions to those stereotypes, doesn't therefore mean that those descriptions of how business interests typically operate are all false. I don't think that Abbie was trying to tear down success at all, only the excessively narrowed capitalistic definition of what do we mean by success?
Baby Boomers in the White House happened. Welfare disparity got worse, no medicare for all and the military industrial complex ramped up. Does this make Hillary Clinton a Neo-Liberal Cultist?
Jerry is the definition of sell out. Selling your soul to the Almighty dollar. Hoffman is fantastic here. He would have made a great presidential candidate.
Abbie Hoffman's argument seems as widely sane today as it did in 1986. His cynicism had elements of truth behind it. Jerry Rubin's Yuppie Neoliberalism has become a similar form/model of nineteenth-century Gilded Age opportunism. Yuppies agreed on lower taxation and less government. Since Reagan, wages have stagnated while the Top 1% and Top .05% have gained enormous financial prosperity. However, wages have increased slightly under the Biden administration (to curb inflation), but there is still significant income inequality between the higher and lower classes. Ironically, the 1950s and 1960s brought middle-class prosperity (thanks to labor unions, Roosevelt's New Deal successes, and fairer taxation policy). The issues from this period were purely social (i.e., racial segregation needs for Civil Rights for minorities), which also inherently drew upon economic status. While capitalism works, its system cannot go unregulated. There must be a balancing system where the government works as a mixed economy. Neoliberalism has only driven the U.S. government to stop legislation from passing or cut legislation that initially benefits the public. Privatization equals Neoliberalism. Abbie Hoffman was right when he said, "Jerry Rubin converted to Capitalism." LOL 🤣
"[...] capitalism works" you say? the system which has, without end, torn through our earth, alienated us, and oppressed us works just because numbers go up?
I thought so, too. But, the New Deal did not give us the same economic boom as WWII did(still had 30% unemployment at the start.) But, I agree we need a return to regimented capitalism. Neoliberalism got slightly chipp'd away through Biden. And I do believe that a return to "draining the swamp" would be the final evolution of neoliberalism.
I love the term”entre-do-nuers”
After reading We Are Everywhere, it is astonishing and also really sad to see this is where Jerry ended up ideologically. You read Marx and you think neoliberalism is the answer?? Insane
Hoffman is still a left-wing nut job
I guess at the end of the day both speakers got what they wanted: the Baby Boomers inevitably came to dominate the political arena but not in perhaps the ways they would have liked. The Baby Boomers ultimately gave us George W. Bush and Trump and are willing to tear this country apart to reinstate the latter, through any means necessary.
Tbh, I'm ambivalent about both arguments here. I understand it's important, especially in these rather troubling and dystopian times in Trump-era America, to maintain your principles and values against the grain and capriciousness of society. That being said, unfortunately in hyper-capitalistic America, you do often have to sell your soul to achieve meaningful change, including the possibility of working for Wall Street to accrue the money that would maybe one day allow you to affect meaningful change in society. On a personal note, while Rubin maybe had a point here and there in his argument, I don't think him in real life peddling pyramid schemes towards the end of his life did any favors for his philosophy lol.
We never really needed anyone to change their heart and minds. We only needed Political Reform. We still need Political Reform. It's kinda Narcissistic to expect everyone else to believe in the things that you believe.
Debate: 1986. Hoffman died 4/12/89. Rubin died 11/28/94.
Good!
Jerry didn't help himself by wearing a traditional business suit and tie. 😂
Who knew Jerry Rubin was going to turn into a sellout? Donahue maybe, which might explain why he put up with all his nonsense back in those days.
What year was this? Jerry Rubin was killed Jaywalking in Los Angelos in November 1994.
This was in 1986.
The two took their debates on the road. Appearing at college campuses through the 80s.
What year did this take place?
1986
@@JasonToll-u2m Thank you 😊
“Yippe! Jerry Rubin died last week! Sorry, that was supposed to read, Yippe, Jerry Rubin died last week.”
I miss Norm 😢
Her leaving out Groucho's name says only one thing to me: bad faith actor.
I hate Jerry Rubin. How can he live with himself going back on everything and his friends?
Well he’s been dead for like 30 years
@@creativeblunder How could he, sorry. Still.
The majority sucks.
Jerry was an idiot.
Rubin was a giant sell out. Didn't he become an investment banker or some such shit?
Steal this video!
Pathetics....
Jerry is not the first left radical who chose to become a corporate shil and a**hole, although I am sure he would argue that he was being a more effective change agent through embracing capitalism rather than trying to overthrow it. Working from inside the system to change the system. Of course those who work in the system, become the system, and the system changes you long before you will ever be able to change it. Where is the visionary entrepreneurial leadership that Jerry is putting all his faith in? Truth is those business leaders are no more willing to redistribute power and wealth downward to the majority of the people, than any of the gilded age 19th century robber baron capitalists were. And Abbie is totally right to point out the obvious fact that entrepreneurial success is going to be the exception and not the norm, and the majority who work for a living are still going to be exploited by their employers in order to maximize profits and keep wages as low as possible, and to keep workers in subjugation to the business elites. Yes I get that the usual criticism from the left often engages in caricature and stale cliche stereotypes of business and the wealthy, however just because there may be occasional exceptions to those stereotypes, doesn't therefore mean that those descriptions of how business interests typically operate are all false. I don't think that Abbie was trying to tear down success at all, only the excessively narrowed capitalistic definition of what do we mean by success?
Gee thanks Jerry, come the 90s those yuppies sure are gonna fix everything...
Imagine if he could see the world now.
Jerry is the epitome of how the baby-boomers sold their children's futures and future generations down the river.
Baby Boomers in the White House happened. Welfare disparity got worse, no medicare for all and the military industrial complex ramped up. Does this make Hillary Clinton a Neo-Liberal Cultist?
Istg-
Abbie, the u.s. got so much worse than you thought it was going to be. God damn he was so right its unreal
You can say that again
BS he was a total train wreck
@@wwbuirkle I don't blame him. He saw all in his movement either sell out or kill themsleves
@@oracle372 getting a job is not selling out
@@wwbuirkle Did you watch the debate? He said as much and gave his definition of selling out, not even that far into the video
Jerry got owned by Hoffman
And that one oncoming car.
@@ttacking_you In the end, the real winner was karma.
@@IanDeMartino pssh 🙄 that's why a guy with a history of over three decades of corruption is a heartbeat away from reelection?
Jerry is the definition of sell out. Selling your soul to the Almighty dollar. Hoffman is fantastic here. He would have made a great presidential candidate.
yeah he sounds just like Bernie
Selling out by making a living? Hoffman could barely support himself
@@wwbuirkleNobody's saying it's one or the other. That kinda thinking produces unnecessary ambivalence. Life doesn't need it.
Abbie Hoffman's argument seems as widely sane today as it did in 1986. His cynicism had elements of truth behind it. Jerry Rubin's Yuppie Neoliberalism has become a similar form/model of nineteenth-century Gilded Age opportunism. Yuppies agreed on lower taxation and less government. Since Reagan, wages have stagnated while the Top 1% and Top .05% have gained enormous financial prosperity. However, wages have increased slightly under the Biden administration (to curb inflation), but there is still significant income inequality between the higher and lower classes. Ironically, the 1950s and 1960s brought middle-class prosperity (thanks to labor unions, Roosevelt's New Deal successes, and fairer taxation policy). The issues from this period were purely social (i.e., racial segregation needs for Civil Rights for minorities), which also inherently drew upon economic status. While capitalism works, its system cannot go unregulated. There must be a balancing system where the government works as a mixed economy. Neoliberalism has only driven the U.S. government to stop legislation from passing or cut legislation that initially benefits the public. Privatization equals Neoliberalism. Abbie Hoffman was right when he said, "Jerry Rubin converted to Capitalism." LOL 🤣
Capitalism only "works" through exploitation and even then, until it periodically collapses.
"[...] capitalism works" you say? the system which has, without end, torn through our earth, alienated us, and oppressed us works just because numbers go up?
I thought so, too. But, the New Deal did not give us the same economic boom as WWII did(still had 30% unemployment at the start.) But, I agree we need a return to regimented capitalism. Neoliberalism got slightly chipp'd away through Biden. And I do believe that a return to "draining the swamp" would be the final evolution of neoliberalism.
...Like neoliberalism would be fully realized and completely installed, I mean.
The 1% isn’t static like you talk. Most people are only in it for a year or so.
I'm not a clown 🤡 but thank you for reading my comment.
economic clown or juggling monetary policy clown?
Thanks for this great historical find!
It used to be posted on UA-cam and now there's only a handful of clips of it. It's my favorite debate so I felt a need to post it for more to see.