Відео

This! It’s so simple. Imo, past life etiquette really depends on the streamer themselves. Some are okay with it, some aren’t okay with it and people need to respect that.

The "semantics" kind of matter when doxing is illegal in several countries around the world. Talking about PL is not doxing, period.

@@shikaryun You have 100% missed the point. Congrats

Yes, but doxxing is a separate thing that can *also* happen to VTubers. Some of them don't appreciate people talking about their past lives or identities, and that should absolutely be respected even if the general taboo is fading over time. But "real life" and "past life" are NOT THE SAME. Posting images or real names of a VTuber who wants or needs that information to be private is doxxing, and is obviously worse, and there's lots of points on the sliding scale. To pretend that this is "semantics" is contrarian, and to conflate them as the same is confusing and potentially dangerous. She's right even if she's using the wrong term, but you aren't.

@@Tahanok2 As evidenced by every other comment, the only one here missing the point is you.

It’s like if I said “teasing = bullying”. Teasing is ok depending on context (playful teasing between friends, for example. Might be fun and make you better friends.) But you MUST separate the word “teasing” from “bullying” if you want to discuss whether teasing is ok. Otherwise you have this conversation: “teasing can be ok” “Oh, so you think it can be ok to bully people? Because teasing and bullying are the same thing”.

that whole thing was messed up but at least she is doing better now and even has done stuff with some former holo's recently.

@Earliersphere yup

Which like. Clippers do. People like Minto left on pretty good terms all things considered but she isn’t able to say anything she’s done in the last few years without “Mint (Pomu) speaks out about the big gabloobly from her old job”. As if that helps anyone.

If someone was streaming with a face cam it's not doxxing either. Doxxing is something like digging up their photo from private social network accounts that wasn't supposed to become public in the first place.

@@telefrag. i have to disagree on that one. if they have a *new* account where they didn't reveal their face and they did in their (now privated/deleted) PL i'd say reveailing their PL would be doxxing given that someone's face is considered biometric data and isn't easily changeable. also a lot of times VTubers who used to be facecam streamers don't/didn't want their face to be out there, look at Kenji, Nyanners, Shylily and Matara for example. i'd consider it as soft-doxxing as it used to be public information but was made private

100%. also as far "don't do it if the streamer doesn't want it" ehhh idk. If someone has a dumb standard I'm not really comfortable changing my actions just because someone I like online has a bad opinion. Seems Michi is an individual who might try too hard to please people; caring more about someone's feelings than if what they say is reasonable. Besides I don't think any VTuber cares about you doing it if it isn't in their face like comments sections; which even I think is reasonable. You don't go up to an actor after the premiere of a film to talk about a different film they were in.

Wasn't he cancelled for sharing some fucked up footage from a certain Vtuber after they'd been assaulted? I only looked into it enough to decide that I didn't want to disrespect the person in question more by bringing more traffic to the places with the footage just to verify it myself.

​@@uselessprotaganist7444That's the valid reason to dunk him for, most people hated him for "doxxing" ame and kiara

Miss him

Tbh I think that only happens a lot when the community is trying to keep it secret. If it's open then it really is not a big deal whatsoever, but if it's taboo than tons of people try to constantly make little comments coyly referencing that they know the special secret.

namie....😢

​ she asked people to stop as she was doing her own thing people were being disrespectful of her wishes by not just enjoying what she was doing. People were not supporting the artist they wanted her to still BE Sana the character. I agree it is in the companies favor to NDA the actors from saying they are the person behind the character, but if the person ask you to stop you should respect that or just leave. Gura had a hard time trying to get a fresh start from what she was people wanted her to still be the alcoholic meme lord and got rude when she wanted a new start.

@@Earliersphere if the talent move son it is one thing but the past thing is on the internet FOREVER. Not bringing it up in their official channels is a respect I give them but off those channels that is free realestate. Btw it isn't doxxing either, doxxing is a legal term for when peopel share REAL LIFE infor in an attempt to threaten or hurt someone. Sharing a past life identity on nonofficial channels is fine in my eyes. It takes power away from companies that missues it to supress their talents. The mere fact that most vtubers share hints more or less open themselves ( the needle in michis intro video *cough*) or don't change voice, behaviour or likes at all and you signal to EVERYONE you used to be x. It is part of the idol culture I wish would just go away permanently as well as the parasocial fishing in vtubing. WE need fences to create distance between creator and viewer not making it a one way expressway to unicorn/gachikoi central. Rushia suffers from her anti attack to this day thanks to how hard she did the GFE and gathered gachikoi followers.

She just doesn't like streaming, stop spreading bullshit.

Ye... I wonder if its just a quick glance and using the term, but doxxing is such a strong and malicious term that you cant side that aspect

I guess it also depends on the content creator because not all vtubers' past lives are 2D/3D/artist/utaite. They could be streaming as themselves (fleshtubers), and that fits the definition of doxxing because seeing how they look like irl can potentially give away information that they don't want to bleed over to their current vtuber incarnation. It's a case-to-case basis, imho.

​@@kurideeceeyup, a lot of the people arguing that it isn't doxxing are seemingly under estimating how much info a streamer's overly obsessed viewers wanting to do malicious things can be gathered if the past life wasn't a 2D avatar or just a faceless content Creator. It may not be a full on doxx but it still is a form of doxxing.

@@LilianaC8927 It isn't doxing at all because to dox someone is to reveal their information without consent. If a Vtuber is either active on their past life, or has that past life account and content available, they are inherently consenting to that being seen and shared. The fact that the information is published makes accessing it generally legal, the information is public.

​@@LuckOfTheDrawRebornnot looking for a back and forth on semantics but for wanting to have a clear definitive definition of what is and isn't consensual you use a lot of assumptions to the wants of streamers for not wanting to delete or private their content. You guys are free to view it as not doxxing but some of us will see it as doxxing because we see it as a spectrum with levels of IRL info being shared outside the control of streamers instead of seeing it as a simple yes or no.

It's caused so much confusion in the past, and gotten some people a crapload of hate and harassment online because people outside of the vtuber space heard "this guy was doxxing people" and didn't know they were just sharing PLs of vtubers. Conflating the two concepts was outright harmful

agreed, doxing is illegal. its a very strict term that should not be aloud to drift in usage like that.

Doxx is very general term. But these days, it's divide into 2 groups. Soft Doxx and Hard Doxx, the latter is the more dangerous one you have to watch out for.

It's the result of Internet Brainrot.

Doxing or doxxing is the act of publicly providing personally identifiable information about an individual or organization, usually via the Internet and without their consent. Historically, the term has been used to refer to both the aggregation of this information from public databases and social media websites (like Facebook), and the publication of previously private information obtained through criminal or otherwise fraudulent means (such as hacking and social engineering). The aggregation and provision of previously published material is generally legal, though it may be subject to laws concerning stalking and intimidation.Doxing may be carried out for reasons such as online shaming, extortion, and vigilante aid to law enforcement. It also may be associated with hacktivism. So it still can apply to what she talk about PL indenties are identities. Maybe not in court yet but that could become a thing when those old people making laws will learn about vtubers, or when a case will have enough Media attention. You can still have your own opinion of course and your own definition even if it's make talking about it almost impossible. But even if you don't agree with the term usage here, her point is still valid. A taboo about PL seems to break. I can't say if it's a good thing or not. The community as grown bigger really fast which is nice but the fact that more and more people seems to not care about the consent of the streamers about those subjects is really concerning.

Are you referring to people that just keep track of their personas or are you referring to locating addresses and such. Because the former, persona to persona is how people track the people they are fans of. Example being Coco to Kson, She was active as both and streamed as both, as does Mel and Rica and Choco and Guutara, these are literally open secrets for many VTubers that are allowed to be multiple personas simultaneously. The only current company that has a stranglehold on this aspect is Nijisanmji where they forbid their talents from using their own personal IP's while under their employee, yet they call them subcontractors, which technically means they can have multiple contractos, but they're not allowed which actually makes them employees. So with Nijisanji, people keep track of their old IP's and the current one's because that's the one they can go back to as it is their own IP. Because if they don't, they lose the person they ar a fan of, and the streamer has to start over from scratch without any of their fanbase following them. And like Mint said, have to get a job at a grocery store while they attempt to rebuild a community of their own. not very fair to the streamer or the fans. Now if you're talking about publishing home address stuff or actual names, that's just straight up illegal. That should not be done.

@ oh no I’m not talking about doxing personas that I don’t care about I’m talking about vtuber fans doxing vtuber real names, location of their houses, and ect it’s super common sadly

​@robingames2002 I don't think that's common at all. I think some people mistakenly assume that is common, because so many vtuber fans use "dox" like Michi did in this clip, whereas you're describing actual real doxxing and not "doxxing" a non-corpo youtube account of a corpo vtuber or something.

@ vtubers who’ve had their full legal names leaked or their house address leaked, kenji, Kiara, calli, snuffy, apricot fruit, project melody, Raime Amamiya, lord athelstan, snuffy silvervale, pippa, also hololive launched an app that was faulty and all of their talents got doxxed so add about 88 or 90 talents Wactor who is a scummy agency doxxed about 12 of their own talents, 910 inc who is just a renamed wactor did the same thing to 5 of their talents So it’s more common then you think the only one that was accidental was the hololive one other then that all the others were doxxed against their will that still adds up to be about 29 people who’ve been doxxed multiple times because kenji was doxxed three times, apricot fruit was doxxed twice, lord Athelstan Stan was doxxed once ,snuffy melody and silver were doxxed once And this was just from me watching UA-cam videos to Learn this over the past hour or so I bet I could even find more vtubers who’ve been doxxed

@@robingames2002 That's not really common at all.

They legally can't. That doesn't mean the fans can't though, which is why the past PL taboo culture was so stupid.

You mean like when they were showing Dearsqn hang out with Keekihime and Ally and Sally?

​@@edmg7 I don't get people bothered by that kind of thing. Those people are all very clearly being as open with liking personal and corpo accounts as they're allowed to with their contracts, and they shared all the photos and details on twitter themselves.

@@uselessprotaganist7444 you’re preaching to the choir on that one. I was just asking OP if those examples are what they meant.

I feel like part if this mindset came from the early days when a lot of corporate vtubers had account/persona's with an actual real face associated with it, a lot of people saw that as breaking immersion. But as more and more vtubers left companies and returned using new avatars but with basically everyone being fully aware of who they were, it become less and less taboo, where I'd say the main breaking point was Fuwamoco where the YT algorithm petty much dobbed them in before they'd even debuted. But there also likely was a lot of people mistaking it for genuinely doxing someone as even before then the term got thrown around quite a bit in situations where it really didn't apply and I remember even seeing a few people who seems to actually believed that mentioning it meant that the company associated with them had to power to take down and purge any mention of it.

@@zaleost There's a lot of misunderstanding as to what these companies particularly the JP one's can and cannot make you do. For example a guy yesterday claimed that Nijisanji can evict you from your home. And while it is true that the contract says they can dictate from where you can stream, that is completely unenforcable both in Japan and out of Japan. Mind you the talent will get hit with breach of contract, but seriously if, let's say Rosemi as an example, has no intention of going to Japan, and she's just had enough of the travelling or just not even enough money for air fare, what is Niji going to do, they don't have anything like that ability, all they can do is give her shit or terminate her. And to sue her it would have to be in Canada and that lawsuit would be dismissed and AnyColor would probably get rebuked for a frivolous claim

​@@zaleostI disagree that FWMC broke the taboo, because personally I heard of their PL only from Parrot. I think the thing that broke the taboo was the garbage that happened to Selen. It was so bad that people stopped caring about not sharing the PL and in fact if you didn't you wouldn't get the liver's response to the graduation notice/ company accusations. Every one of the news channels covered it differently. Some outright said that Doki was Selen's PL. Others censored who the tweet came from but still said "her pl tweeted".

@@EndoftheBeginning17 yeah I do I agree a lot of people overstate just how over encompassing the companies desire for secrecy is and how much power they have to enforce it. It also reminds me that I saw a fair few people suggesting that if someone’s identity is publicly revealed it would get them fired/graduated. There was even an instance not too long ago where Kronii apparently had to partially reveal something to airport security and many commentators were genuinely concerned that this could have gotten her fired.

She showed The Nail during her debut skit. She's allowed to change her mind, but ultimately the taboo is dying and she didn't exactly hide it early on.