Faith Unraveled
Faith Unraveled
  • 92
  • 356 137

Відео

Tank Top Garments for LDS | Faith Unfiltered | Episode 027
Переглядів 8 тис.7 годин тому
Big news in the world of Mormonism-sleeveless temple garments are officially here! This comes after past rumors, like the so-called “Cuppa Joseph” coffee allowance, but this time, it’s real. The Salt Lake Tribune has verified the introduction of these sleeveless options, though the global rollout timeline remains unclear. While some members welcome the change as a step toward more practical, br...
Excommunication of Jeremy Runnells | Faith Unraveled | Episode 026
Переглядів 7 тис.21 день тому
As a continuation to our episode on excommunication, and in light of the impending excommunication of Nemo the Mormon, we wanted to share this legendary talk by Jeremy Runnells, given at his own disciplinary council in 2016. From CESletter.org: CES Letter is one Latter-day Saint's honest quest to get official answers from the LDS Church on its troubling origins, history, and practices. Jeremy R...
Mormon Excommunication: The Shocking Truth | Faith Unfiltered | Episode 025
Переглядів 8 тис.21 день тому
In this episode of Faith Unraveled, we delve into the complex and often controversial topic of Mormon excommunication. We discuss the ongoing case of our friend, Nemo the Mormon, who is facing a disciplinary council that will likely result in his excommunication. We explore the excommunication process, its use as a tool for enforcing strict adherence to church policies, and the broader implicat...
Our Mixed Faith Marriage | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 024
Переглядів 2,3 тис.Місяць тому
In this episode of 'Faith Unraveled,' we explore the unique challenges of mixed-faith marriages after deconstructing from high-demand religions, with a special focus on post-Mormon experiences. Responding to questions from our Instagram audience, we dive into the difficulties couples face when one partner remains in the faith while the other has left, including navigating family dynamics, redef...
Why We Create Ex-Mormon Content: Our Journey and Struggle | Faith Unfiltered | Episode 023
Переглядів 3 тис.Місяць тому
What started as trad mom blogging project, inspired by a request from our stake president, eventually evolved into something much bigger. In this episode of Faith Unraveled, we dive into our journey from tradition Mormon couple to NOW, creating ex-Mormon content. We touch on the challenges involved, including social ostracism and family struggles. As we delved deeper into church history and beg...
How The Mormon Church Tracks You Down | Faith Unfiltered | Episode 022
Переглядів 4,7 тис.Місяць тому
In this episode of Faith Unraveled, we discuss the topic of church records, and how the church will try to track you down wherever you are, as long as you're a member of record! The conversation includes insights from Jamie, a "retired" ward clerk; his experiences, specifically how church records are maintained, how local wards track members' locations, and the methods used to keep members' inf...
Unworthy Mormons Wait Outside | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 020
Переглядів 1,8 тис.2 місяці тому
Today, we're tackling the deeply hurtful practice of excluding loved ones from temple ceremonies. This episode's highlight comes straight from you, our viewers! We've gathered some compelling stories and heartfelt commentary that reveal the pain, regret, and lasting impact of being excluded from or excluding others on such a significant day. Thank you to everyone who shared their experiences wi...
Patriarchy Nearly Broke Us | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 019
Переглядів 2,6 тис.2 місяці тому
Patriarchy Nearly Broke Us | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 019
Jesus threatens to destroy Emma, D&C 132
Переглядів 1,3 тис.3 місяці тому
Jesus threatens to destroy Emma, D&C 132
My Mormon Shelf collapsed
Переглядів 2,8 тис.3 місяці тому
My Mormon Shelf collapsed
“Heavenly Father made my skin white.” Mormon beliefs for 800.
Переглядів 2574 місяці тому
“Heavenly Father made my skin white.” Mormon beliefs for 800.
The cost of seminary is a lot higher than you think
Переглядів 5474 місяці тому
The cost of seminary is a lot higher than you think
The Pain of Rejection in the Church | Deconstruction Series | Episode 018
Переглядів 2,5 тис.4 місяці тому
The Pain of Rejection in the Church | Deconstruction Series | Episode 018
Social Pressures | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 017.
Переглядів 3,2 тис.4 місяці тому
Social Pressures | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 017.
Doctrine over Self | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 016
Переглядів 2,9 тис.4 місяці тому
Doctrine over Self | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 016
Spirituality Revisited | Spirituality After Religion | Episode 015
Переглядів 1,8 тис.5 місяців тому
Spirituality Revisited | Spirituality After Religion | Episode 015
Mormon / Exmormon Bridge Building
Переглядів 2,4 тис.5 місяців тому
Mormon / Exmormon Bridge Building
What I found prepping to become a Mormon Seminary Teacher | Faith Deconstruction Series| Episode 014
Переглядів 6 тис.6 місяців тому
What I found prepping to become a Mormon Seminary Teacher | Faith Deconstruction Series| Episode 014
Does the Mormon Church Harm? | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 013
Переглядів 3,6 тис.6 місяців тому
Does the Mormon Church Harm? | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 013
Episode 012 | Managing Relationships After a Faith Crisis | Faith Unfiltered Q&A
Переглядів 1,6 тис.6 місяців тому
Episode 012 | Managing Relationships After a Faith Crisis | Faith Unfiltered Q&A
Episode 011 | Sally & Lena Discuss LGBTQ BYU | Faith Unraveled.
Переглядів 1,6 тис.6 місяців тому
Episode 011 | Sally & Lena Discuss LGBTQ BYU | Faith Unraveled.
Episode 010 | Faith Unfiltered Q&A: Your Spicy Questions about Intimacy after Mormonism
Переглядів 2,1 тис.6 місяців тому
Episode 010 | Faith Unfiltered Q&A: Your Spicy Questions about Intimacy after Mormonism
Would any man join a church like this?
Переглядів 1,5 тис.6 місяців тому
Would any man join a church like this?
When active members try to set you straight.
Переглядів 1,5 тис.6 місяців тому
When active members try to set you straight.
Episode 009 | Does the Mormon Church Give Authority To Women?
Переглядів 3,3 тис.6 місяців тому
Episode 009 | Does the Mormon Church Give Authority To Women?
Episode 008 | The Rescue | Faith Deconstruction Series
Переглядів 1,7 тис.6 місяців тому
Episode 008 | The Rescue | Faith Deconstruction Series
Episode 007 | Faith Unfiltered: Q&A: God, Spirituality, and Patriarchy
Переглядів 1,7 тис.7 місяців тому
Episode 007 | Faith Unfiltered: Q&A: God, Spirituality, and Patriarchy
How much time do Mormons really dedicate to their faith? The answer may surprise you!
Переглядів 1,2 тис.7 місяців тому
How much time do Mormons really dedicate to their faith? The answer may surprise you!
Episode 006 | Joy Beyond Religion | Faith Deconstruction Series
Переглядів 2,5 тис.7 місяців тому
Episode 006 | Joy Beyond Religion | Faith Deconstruction Series

КОМЕНТАРІ

  • @JDPrimeFit
    @JDPrimeFit 2 години тому

    One more opportunity for this man to show he is a liar

  • @jule8280
    @jule8280 13 годин тому

    I know a Mormon lady who I care for and love. I don’t know how much of a Mormon she is, how much she is aware or practicing but I can tell they she has a desire and love for Jesus. I don’t want her to end up in Hell.

  • @BrianWaller-qe7gr
    @BrianWaller-qe7gr 16 годин тому

    I’m assigned outer darkness because I wasn’t worthy enough on earth

  • @jacobopstad5483
    @jacobopstad5483 17 годин тому

    Anything less than complete acknowledgement that the Church is not true is useless and outrageous

  • @beckye8799
    @beckye8799 22 години тому

    I always struggled with most of the doctrine (how women, gays, blacks, & nonbelievers were treated, and the teachings in the PoGP D&C, & BoM). I distinctly recall the moment when i asked myself the magical question, “why would someone not or stop believing in the Mormon (only true) church”? The universe presented me with amazing insights, people, and I went down a rabbit hole that I could not come out of. 😮

  • @jillcampbell2307
    @jillcampbell2307 День тому

    The garment is a sacred reminder of promises we've made to follow Christ. Garment styles are not Church doctrine, nor are policies. I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is led by a true prophet--and that the apostles are prophets--because of the witness of the Holy Ghost.

  • @SuzanneTheBossBabe
    @SuzanneTheBossBabe День тому

    PREDICTION: Elohim is going to allow widows to get sealed a 2nd time and not require cancellation, aka “temple divorce.” This will be painful for me because of the $hit I went through dating Mormon men after my 1st husband died.

  • @teinelaume
    @teinelaume 2 дні тому

    "It's not the things you wear, or the way you do your hair, it's you, I like!" HI neighbor! I'll tell you one thing, God loves to use symbols in his teaching. Having the garment "placed on you" comes after being purified. It is a new "skin", you are a new person, born again. Next comes entering into the presence of the Lord. And all of this before you die. It was never about wearing something 24/7 that made you special, it's you turning your heart 24/7 to God. The garment is the condition you are in. Somewhere in history it became mandatory to wear all the time but I think it was a modality to teach part of the steps of coming back to God's presence. Someone got carried away with it and decided to make it worn all the time. I think God is really ticked off about people who think doing lots of ceremonies and wearing special apparel makes them holier without ever actually becoming holier.

    • @marquitaarmstrong399
      @marquitaarmstrong399 2 дні тому

      Yes. Jesus mentioned that a time or ninety in the New Testament.

    • @imustremaincivil2932
      @imustremaincivil2932 День тому

      Agreed. It's pharisaical. The timing is a bit suspect with the 91 lawsuits in California against the church related to CSA.

    • @lisagrace6471
      @lisagrace6471 22 години тому

      @@teinelaume do you know where the symbols of the garment come from? Where is the documented original source Revelation on it? Why need the garment at all if it's all about the heart? I agree that it should have been about a personal relationship with God.

    • @teinelaume
      @teinelaume 8 годин тому

      @@lisagrace6471 HI, I don't know the answer to your first question. I would like to know that too. I do know they are symbols of the Masonic Order and are ancient. You need a compass and square to build. Much of our endowment comes from the Masons. How we came to use their handshakes and oaths of secrecy, I don't know exactly. All I know are patterns in scripture. That is what I look for. It appears the goal of this life is to become one with God which involves a mighty change in us. The Israelites in Moses time were brought to meet with God. They refused, and God gave them the lesser Law of Moses and the Tabernacle to show how to enter his presence. Over time they didn't do that either but rather started to think going through the motions of ceremony was what saved them. It became an idol. So Garments: In scripture they are talked about as having blood on them or filthiness if a person has not repented or doesn't teach those under their jurisdiction how to be saved. Garments are also talked about as being "white" "pure" based on the state of the person. There is a story of a man who attends a wedding feast with the wrong garment on. Now knowing that the garment represents his state, his cleanliness, it makes sense when the punishment is outer darkness. I am guessing this fellow sinned against the Holy Ghost. Because that is what earns that punishment. and in order for him to even be in the wedding feast he must have once qualified by receiving the Holy Ghost. But he did not endure to the end. So when I see these scriptures it tells me garments are representing your state of being. And since we are spirits clothed in bodies of flesh, and our flesh is "fallen" or can't return to God's presence without the Atonement, We have to be "born again" changed from someone shut out of God's presence (dead) to alive because of Christ. Our "leveled up" bodies are these garments. All those promises of protection apply to being in this state. And we are to wear them (maintain this state) until the day we die. that is enduring to the end. So how do fabric garments fit into the story? They must have been part of teaching of this principle in Joseph's time, but I don't think they were intended to be worn 24/7. When Joseph and Hyrum were killed they were not wearing garments. It was super hot too. And I don't think the Nephites had a clothing distribution store where they could buy them either. Wearing something that reminds you to "put on Christ" can be helpful but wearing something without thought can be like fasting without purpose.

  • @Anti-Mormons-are-Idiots
    @Anti-Mormons-are-Idiots 2 дні тому

    Here is a great video that highlights a more balance and truthful perspective not just anti-Mormon propaganda from someone having a mid-life crisis and can’t seem to move on in life and engage in their new faith. Anti-Mormon is not a religion it’s a woke cult! ua-cam.com/video/Wvfqjx7DCss/v-deo.htmlsi=s4UooLh8mSPwwZy3

  • @Anti-Mormons-are-Idiots
    @Anti-Mormons-are-Idiots 2 дні тому

    Bull crap!

  • @leilettesartoga7276
    @leilettesartoga7276 2 дні тому

    Your theory is that faithful LDS are not critical thinkers?

    • @marquitaarmstrong399
      @marquitaarmstrong399 2 дні тому

      Bingo!!!!!!

    • @marquitaarmstrong399
      @marquitaarmstrong399 2 дні тому

      Yes

    • @leilettesartoga7276
      @leilettesartoga7276 День тому

      LOL! There is never a lack of critical thinking when accusing others of not being critical thinkers! I think the expert "critical thinkers" have confused "critical thinking" with pride. It's a common fallacy that has occurred...you know...since the beginning of time. It's all over the scriptures. Go read them! :-)

  • @1111fairy
    @1111fairy 2 дні тому

    Yeah it never made any sense to me either. Like Jesus would be in heaven trying to keeping families apart. Wtf

  • @ginolorenzo9851
    @ginolorenzo9851 2 дні тому

    little by little these false religions are false churches are starting to look more and more like the world 😈

  • @1111fairy
    @1111fairy 2 дні тому

    I got out at 17 and it was scary and fkg hard. I still had all that trauma. I chose the wrong cateer bcuz I didn’t know who I was or believe in myself. And i married way too young, bcuz i didnt have any support. I had to go no/low contact with my parents. I am 46 and still healing trauma.

  • @hillaryherbopelis
    @hillaryherbopelis 2 дні тому

    I don’t think you are crazy. I have also seen that wealthy members seem to get to do whatever they want.

  • @BigTscycling
    @BigTscycling 2 дні тому

    What's your problem? You 2 years old?? Who cares, move on with life. Quit whining.

  • @ginatriana1523
    @ginatriana1523 2 дні тому

    Matt 23 describes them perfectly.

  • @debdeb4depp65
    @debdeb4depp65 2 дні тому

    They need to make women’s tops with padded bra so you don’t have to wear both!

  • @craiglaw7578
    @craiglaw7578 2 дні тому

    All the “super” changes tells me that these points of [constant] change were always doctrine of men! Too harsh?

    • @Amp661
      @Amp661 2 дні тому

      ALL religion is the doctrine of man

  • @lisagrace6471
    @lisagrace6471 2 дні тому

    Man, kudos to the mental gymnastics it takes to walk by this one as a faithful member and not even react. I mean, it is all about the doctrine, right? and garments are not doctrine, right? But....in order to get to the special doctrine in the temple...you have to wear these garments....that are not doctrine and change....so you can't really divorce this topic from the doctrine of the temple, but you will try. We are taught the temple is ancient and eternal and everlasting; pure, untouched doctrine...yet...it changes? All the time? And is it really based off of ancient stuff and how do you know? What is the evidence for it? Or how about good faith evidence?

  • @DKMELT
    @DKMELT 2 дні тому

    When are Mormans going to realize their leaders aren't prophets and aren't getting revelation from God?

    • @Amp661
      @Amp661 2 дні тому

      They're brainwashed. They can only learn that the hard way.

  • @walkinonsunshine4292
    @walkinonsunshine4292 3 дні тому

    No Mo PORN Shoulders?? Mormon God changed his mind AGAIN??!

  • @apiary1
    @apiary1 3 дні тому

    Brother- of- prodigal- son syndrom.

  • @AnnetteHeslop
    @AnnetteHeslop 3 дні тому

    God is telling his Prophet what is needed in this global church. There are needs that are different around the world, climates. If you are not a member or inactive you are bringing the negative into all that is righteous and encouraging others to feel the same.

    • @AnnetteHeslop
      @AnnetteHeslop 3 дні тому

      Why is it that those who leave the church can’t leave it alone?

    • @iamjustonemom1950
      @iamjustonemom1950 2 дні тому

      When was God not a global Father to all the earth’ inhabitants? “Every hair on their heads.” “I knew thee before thou wast born.”

  • @Ensignpeak
    @Ensignpeak 3 дні тому

    You need to grow up. You and your followers have the mentality and maturity of petulant children. Kind of laughable.

  • @BrianWaller-qe7gr
    @BrianWaller-qe7gr 3 дні тому

    I can tell you that I’ve only seen one guy at the gym locker room wearing garments. Not like I’m looking because I’m not gay but just I’m very observant of my surroundings so I pay attention to everything that goes on around me. Only 1 in two years showering at the gym.

    • @droundyCubby
      @droundyCubby 3 дні тому

      @@BrianWaller-qe7gr in the gym I use, most of the women wear their garment. Find a new gym will solve your problem.

  • @BrianWaller-qe7gr
    @BrianWaller-qe7gr 3 дні тому

    Dam that was quick I literally just say the headline on my phone this morning. When are they going to to allow bikini style garments?🤣

  • @BrianWaller-qe7gr
    @BrianWaller-qe7gr 3 дні тому

    Dam that was quick I literally just saw the headline on my phone this morning. When are they going to to allow bikini style garments?🤣

  • @nadinehansen9241
    @nadinehansen9241 3 дні тому

    I am glad they are making changes, but I think it's ridiculous to attribute them to God. The old men who run the church are always decades behind the times and by the time they make changes, the rest of the world has long since moved on. It is pretty obvious that they are making it up as they go along, but what they are making up is still way behind the times.

  • @chantelredwood2743
    @chantelredwood2743 3 дні тому

    I don't feel gaslit about this, it isn't going to change my attire, it would be so much more comfortable though. My sleeves aren't short by any means, but I am sensitive to the warmth of the summer season. Even before taking out my endowments I wore tank tops under my shirts.

  • @manderson4803
    @manderson4803 3 дні тому

    It's annoying. I finally got them to stop showing up at my house, but I still get a birthday card from the relief society. It triggers me and makes me sad/mad.

  • @manderson4803
    @manderson4803 3 дні тому

    Garments are the number one reason people are leaving the church. It is not because of Joseph Smith marrying already married women or his Fanny Alger moment. It is also not because of all the money laundering red flags.

  • @dellhowell5216
    @dellhowell5216 3 дні тому

    Ya its all control!

  • @rwd1025
    @rwd1025 3 дні тому

    So "porn shoulders" are ok now?

  • @thedailydump7407
    @thedailydump7407 3 дні тому

    The LDS church has a long and established history of making changes to both doctrine, and policy. Nothing new.

    • @JIKOKALOL
      @JIKOKALOL День тому

      Because it is based on men getting new revelations from God.

  • @wagnerthesilva
    @wagnerthesilva 3 дні тому

    Men and women were so much abused and finger-pointed or worse (as you mentioned by a husband to his wife) because of showing shoulders, wearing sleeveless t-shirts, etc. Now we have a new revelation that all was wrong and the proper garment is the one now sleeveless, skirts, etc... Soon we´ll see swimmer suits, speedos, bikini, etc....😅

    • @droundyCubby
      @droundyCubby 3 дні тому

      @@wagnerthesilva hey, wait! I have seen nothing against speedos.

  • @lorawhitfield6995
    @lorawhitfield6995 3 дні тому

    Honestly, I fail to see how removing approximately 1” from the sleeve is going to help in hot, humid climates. It’s still an extra layer of synthetic fabric! As an ex-mo now it doesn’t affect me, but I do think the church is just doing the bare minimum to try and appease members. Kind of like when they started allowing women to be witnesses at baptisms, young women to be greeters and hand out programs, telling women they do have “priesthood power” through wearing the garment and attending the temple, etc.

  • @emptynesters2520
    @emptynesters2520 3 дні тому

    Yep, they just keep moving the goalpost. Gotta plug that hemorrhage!

  • @MrArtist7777
    @MrArtist7777 3 дні тому

    As an active member of the church, I agree, the church is evolving to focus solely on following Jesus Christ’s teachings, which have nothing to do with many church traditions and dogmas. I refuse to wear a neck tie, the vast majority of the time, as I’m not a missionary or GA, and ties are stupid and pointless. God lives on another habitable planet, many light years from earth, who gave man simple direction, and leaves us on our own. God has no interest in micro-management and doesn’t live in our hearts, he can’t, he has a physical body, just like us.

    • @summerlake356
      @summerlake356 2 дні тому

      I believe you are on to something. They are re-branding. Less Joseph, with all his problematic baggage, and more Jesus... Lord only knows what they will do about Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price. Both are ultra problematic unless you are a dyed in the wool TBM.

    • @carolyearsley
      @carolyearsley 2 дні тому

      The tie is a representation of the "cable tow" in the Masonic ceremony, where the blind folded initiate is led around by a rope.

  • @thomasjeffersongeorgewashi1100

    "I just feel gaslit" aka, you're a loser

  • @emptynesters2520
    @emptynesters2520 3 дні тому

    What a bunch of🐂 💩! Did they have to change it for their SLOMW members?! Suuuure looks like it!

  • @JIKOKALOL
    @JIKOKALOL 3 дні тому

    Getting away from our hygiene is a step in the right direction. Religion is so weird!

  • @Anti-Mormons-are-Idiots
    @Anti-Mormons-are-Idiots 3 дні тому

    This gives a more balanced opinion with real facts not just misinformation by angry anti and exmos. ua-cam.com/video/Wvfqjx7DCss/v-deo.htmlsi=yWjLSu9huPme9xQD

  • @crazymema23
    @crazymema23 3 дні тому

    The evolution of the garment from one piece in late 1970 is interesting. When will god give the profits a revelation to allow shapewear garmies soon?

    • @JIKOKALOL
      @JIKOKALOL 3 дні тому

      See through would be nice.

  • @WildyWendy
    @WildyWendy 3 дні тому

    It won’t be long until they allow non members or non temple recommendation holders to attend weddings. It is gas lighting. Remember when they started making special garments for the military members? Colored garments with iron on markings. So they are not standing out when changing clothes. They may just allow them to wear stick on markings with a little more time.

  • @Timothy4186
    @Timothy4186 3 дні тому

    What is a "Jack Mormon"? Is it someone who likes the Church but won't commit to baptism? Is it someone not in good standing, but continues to identify as LDS? I keep hearing that term in different contexts.

    • @alpinestar339
      @alpinestar339 3 дні тому

      Jack Dempsey, the champion boxer, was the original "Jack Mormon." He was a member who didn't follow all the rules.

  • @birgittetange6411
    @birgittetange6411 3 дні тому

    Thanks for sharing ❤ It would have made a difference to me if the church had come out with this a couple of years ago! So hard to find nice summer blouses and dresses that cover regular garments. But I don't wear garments anymore.... too warm, too uncomfortable, made me feel overweight... I left the church due to garments, all the lies and all the history cover ups etc .... Will share your podcast with my friends still in the church and see how they react 😊 Thanks for your great podcasts ❤ Greetings and a big hug from Denmark

  • @kahalakohl4010
    @kahalakohl4010 3 дні тому

    I am active and 78. I still wear the one piece because that is what I have always worn. I feel sad to see this. I have a few two piece types but prefer the one piece. I have seen many changes. I still cal myself a Mormon too. Thanks for your podcast.

    • @droundyCubby
      @droundyCubby День тому

      I still wear the one-piece mostly too. With the vicissitudes of age, for me they are more comfortable. I do have some of both and I chose what is most fitting for what I am doing. I understand only about 1% still wear them.

  • @droundyCubby
    @droundyCubby 3 дні тому

    I really doubt that Adam and Eve’s first garment had sleeves. Could have, doesn’t matter. I live overseas from the USA and it is hot and humid, sticky and uncomfortable. It can especially be hot under the arms and the seams are scratchy. Maybe the big question one could ask self is, “how much Protection do you want to wear? “ ❤ It is a gift to us who choose to wear it. For that matter, how many people open the gift of the Holy Ghost?

    • @yeshalloween
      @yeshalloween 3 дні тому

      But Dallin H. Oaks just barely said in conference that the government isn’t a protection, it’s a reminder. I know you were raised, growing up being told that the garment is a protection, but they’ve done away with that rhetoric as well.

    • @droundyCubby
      @droundyCubby 3 дні тому

      @@yeshalloween I’ll agree with the government part, but is off topic. (I think you made a typo) as for the garment, I’think I’ll just keep wearing my soft, cotton blend, modest, beautiful reminder of the covenants I made and leave the protection part in the Lord’s hands

  • @BarbTipping
    @BarbTipping 3 дні тому

    They preach that god continues to change his mind I was taught Gid, the same yesterday, today and forever. The whole thing has been a lie and the churxh will and should collapse. Disgusted.