Відео

Mine was bought post 2021 at the very earliest. Primers seemed to be the most consistent tell if I was maxing pressure. Except for the stuff I bought off of G*nbroker. 4 separations from his ridiculously high velocities. I got Acc#9 to work best. Too busy to finish the video.

YW & I agree. Gel is not worthless info, but seeing 4 or 5 thin lines in clear gel is tricking people into thinking those are tiny little slicey cuts. But in reality, they make one giant hole. In checking some other vids of Simx tested, I'm pretty confident I already know what it will do. I predict a ~3.5 - 4" dia. hole that goes about 3-4" deep...Which is a devastating wound. I doubt that the pork shoulder would be able to contain it and at least one side of it would fly off (like the top did in this vid)...which then makes measuring pretty wonky. I do think that Simx ammo goes a bit too far in the direction of exploding. I prefer what I see from Overwatch & Civil Defense. I want the damage happening in the 3 - 9" range. The 32 gr Controlled Chaos & 30 gr Cutting Edge Raptor in 5.7 x 28 is what I have loaded as first few carry rounds...after seeing what those did to meat. Overwatch & Civil Defense are in the 9mm & 10mm. I like the base in those traveling to 10-16". It's basically two shots, for the price of one.

@ShastaBean I agree there. Gel isn't worthless but it's not and never was living, it's homogeneous, and the speed of sound in gel is about twice that in the human body. Not a true comparison to living tissue. Lol your the expert there and I'd wager that's a pretty good guess. I like the explosive effect personally. The way I see it is with a handgun you'll likely be firing more than once into an attacker anyway. I do believe in ultra high velocity and energy dump. I also believe in peak pressure wave magnitude, hydrostatic shock and perhaps even blast overpressure. Rounds that completely explode have the highest chances of inflicting these effects. They typically have the highest energy and velocity on the market while some of the lowest recoil. I get you but I've seen the Overwatch load do 14 inches in 10% gel that's overpenetration imo. I do think it'd make a solid performer overall though. Civil Defense is legit.

@@funwithballistics1016 I am FAR, FAR from being any expert. haha! The reason I like the disc travelling from the Overwatch, is that possibility it could get a CNS hit. And from what I've seen, the OW disc goes in a straighter line than the CD. I actually intended to shoot the CD on this day, and not OW...but I forgot that I hadn't put any into the magazine, yet. duh! I agree that multiple hits are probably the expectation. So if 1 or 2 of them were to be the Simx? Probably not a bad inclusion. If I have to go beyond a 3rd or 4th shot...that's where it'd be a G9 EHP, rinse & repeat. By about the 8th round, HST (9mm) or Underwood 200 gr XTP (10mm) are in the mix. I feel so much more assured with the fast rounds than I ever did with Gold Dots or Critical Defense, etc. I was once chased down the street by 4 javelinas. I only had 12+1 9mm Hornady at that time. They let me run off and not bent on attacking. But, that night, after feeling I wasn't adequately equipped...bought 5.7 x 28 & 10mm. The only way we'll really know if Liberty has better stopping capability, is if some LEOs start using them. I doubt that's coming anytime soon. Even if they did...it would take so many events to be able to compare, and no way to really know if placement was the factor. Same problem when it comes to 5.7 x 28. With this 12 - 18" FBI standard, and inferior 5.7 ammo being produced...not very likely to see that usage grow in LE. If the agents in Miami 1986 had all been equipped with FN 57s...I very much doubt the 12-18" standard would have ever come to be. Hits matter way more than terminal performance. They had too many misses. One thing I notice on many comment sections, are the people that say how Liberty drops hogs. That'd be the next best source for validation tests.

@ShastaBean lol me either. Solid guess though. Yeah that's possible with Overwatch. Because of M&S, I'm loose on a minimum penetration standard from the successes of the Glaser Safety Slugs (the Blue penetrates as little as 6 inches in 10% gel) and Strasbourg showed it to perform better than pretty much all jhps except in rib shots. It was outperformed by the 124 grain Hydra-shok and the Rem 115 grain jhp only however and only by .07 and .1 seconds respectively in 9mm. Meanwhile, I'm also strict on deep penetration since M&S referenced a study done by the US Army showing that 15 inches of gel penetration correlated with through and through torso shots on the street at a rate of 70%. 58 ft lbs after 15 inches was considered enough to cause casualties and was deemed overpenetration. That's why I don't agree with their max of 14 inches and choose 13 instead personally since they found that 8.5-12 is optimal. I do believe it is a logical, realistic, and balanced maximum. I'd say give Simx a try. The Defensecore and Civil Defense imo are the best loads on the market today. If you check out Simxs channel they have a video of hunters taking very large Russian hogs with just handguns loaded with it. Personally Id just keep one load per mag. I feel in a high stress situation it's possible a load salad with a gauntlet of light and heavy rounds could possibly throw off your aim since you won't think about it or expect it but that's just me.

@ShastaBean yeah i agree on the outcome being different if they had 5.7s. Oh and Matix was hit 6x and Platt was hit 12x. I also agree on that. The street and animal testing are the most important sources of terminal ballistics info in that order.

Agreed...I will be doing a bit more testing with the pistol, but needing 1950 fps for expansion; is a non-starter. That is 380 ft-lbs, and not really something I want to run that high. If I could get it to expand at 1900, then I'd consider, more heavily. I am leaving open the possibility that hitting the side of the shoulder, and how it blew-out the pork might have made expansion be less? Even still with it barely expanding - it really did do some serious damage; so there's that. And since you mentioned the Maker bullets...I just checked & found (& bought) some of their 37 gr. TRAX. Tipped Fracturing. I think I'd prefer the expanding vs fracturing in that 37 gr, but then again - maybe not? Perhaps letting go of the petals after the initial damage is a better way to get deeper. They haven't had anything available for a LOOONG time. So I guess I felt like having some is good. And maybe that's a good sign that they'll have the REX available again, soon? I have ~175 of the expanding still left, but reluctant to do a ton of testing to refine the load, if I can't get more. I have a Raptor 40 gr video I'm working on...speaking of "heavier fracturing" option. Given how that performed, the 37 gr might just be Jim-Dandy.

I took the R.I.P. out. I'd have to do my own velocity testing, because I can't find any videos of it on here. I replaced the one in the chamber with another Civil Defense. My 5.7x28 carry has 8 different rounds...4 factory, and 4 of my handloads. It requires a good deal of testing, though...I wouldn't suggest just loading up staggered rounds and expecting them to have same point of impact, or presume they'll cycle. I'd also have to compare the Liberty vs the RIP in actual meat, to want to put it back in and do more function testing with it. I realized that I had only shot it with itself being the next round. It might not cycle with something else behind it. I will also add testing the .380 G9 into pork. I want to know.

@@ShastaBean Oh, ok then. Cool. That's definitely an intriguing concept you have of mixing ammo I have literally never seen that being done before until I came across your video. Have you ever had any feeding issues or has everything cycled just fine?

@@janice5791 I haven't had any feeding issues specific to staggering rounds, but impact can vary.

@@ShastaBean Alrighty well that makes sense. Keep doing your thing great work, and I am most definitely looking forward to more videos 😃👍🏻

@@janice5791 thanks...it's been awhile...I've been stuck on the latest video - - with SOO much 'life' mumbo-jumbo seeming to constantly be flying at me past couple months.

yes & yes. It's a specific model (MP2) So it's cut to not need a plate. I think they have about 6 models. Personally, I don't think I'd put anything on a 10mm that involves a plate.

yes. It's in the tile at 0:05 and in the description...but recently I've been putting into all of the ammo tiles throughout.

Yes. I get yelled at from ROs if not shooting at the bottom of the target - then the angle is too steep and they end up impacting the ceiling.

B-O-I-I-I-I-N-G.... 8=========D~~~~~~

not sure what you mean by "that" but there's a shooter, there's a gun and there's ammo. But thanks. (The word "that" can function as multiple parts of speech, including a demonstrative pronoun, a determiner, a relative pronoun, and a conjunction)

I've only done a bit of 250. Very early on I used IMR 4831 but more recently used H1000 and that gave very good results. Savage: ua-cam.com/video/wfwlmjAzJlE/v-deo.html MPR: ua-cam.com/video/UmXx1BC1KbM/v-deo.html I've been using distances off the lands for OAL, not books' OAL. Just to see what I can get for accuracy.

ah-ha....I see you peeked at the discussion with triggerbar...!! haha. Thanks. Yes. #9 is the leader & putting together the info. Popped a primer with that powder at 2419 fps...but none if under 2400. So I'll be doing some more testing to see if I can get 2350-2375 reliably with no issues...might switch back to the CCI-400, if so.

@@ShastaBean It’s so nice to see others enjoying the great bullet that .224 45 grain tsx is.

seems such a common thing that I find out some cartridge exists that I had no idea about...on looking; that is the disproportionally fat case I think I've ever seen! crazy looking. Is there something about that design that makes it better than something like .220 swift? These 35 gr NTX in .223 were ~3800 fps in my 22" barrel. Can't imagine what they would look like at almost 5000. Just disintegrate?

*@ShastaBean* Yeah, it would most likely disintegrate, just a fun idea I had. The 223 WSSM holds more powder than even a 308, and it's able to launch a 40gr bullet at 4,700 ft/s. My Savage 110 in 223 has a 26 inch barrel, and I typically get over 4,000 with 35gr NTX loads.

@@UI_Shaggy05 I've wanted to see the damage these, and something like the 30gr Barnes do to tissue. Want to put them into a pork shoulder, but wouldn't be able to get it out of the meat, and don't really want the dog consuming a bunch of copper...have googled if it's toxic like that, and seems it is, but not a clear answer (like always with that search since they've ruined it).

Actually, no to LS...the Acc#9 is the powder I was able to get well into the 2300s with and even above 2350 pushing 2400!!. That is my next video. Longshot was piercing primers at well under 2200 and so I just used it because I either had some leftover, or knew the charge to get close to what I was seeking. Same with the TB & Acc#7. But yah, shot the crap out of that 1st slab!! I do wish I had a better visual of what that pistol round did....instead it blew the side out, so nothing to cut cross-section to see full channel. And possibly might have affected expansion. At 1900 - 1950, if even a small amount of expansion, I wonder if it would even still rival what the HST +P did. Worst case; it's a penetrating/probably tumbler. I'm going to do that again. Not sure I want to load the pistol to 1950...but, maybe? Worth a try I suppose. If it opens with a center-hit, then maybe try 1900ish? Probably going to try one at 2000 fps, too, if I get around to it. I want to know pretty precisely where it stops working. Then maybe add some clothing.

and just thinking about it now...with what that tiny-tip 1946 fps round did to the side of that slab...it's no wonder your elk dropped like it did. Maybe that FULL expansion idea is a bit overrated? It does look cool, though.

👍

Magnification? no Zero? yes (but wouldn't do that in the middle of a session - This was first shots). Note in the table at end shows adjustment made after.

I'm fairly sure they'd get mostly bigger. Although, if I used the scope it might offset some of that? I was mostly looking for POI here & to compare it with what the AR did with exact same optic combo. I'm going to try to load the Sierra Blitzking and see if I can make it anywhere near 1 MOA at 100 yd. Maybe VMAX Also, the TSX 45 gr. I've seen that's effective in pork at velocity out to 75 - 100 yards. Working on that video. ...BUT, they print LEFT of bullseye. So...what to zero? ugh.

I knew there was POI shift, but sort of forgot it's THIS much. I had been mostly testing the 45 gr TSX at indoor 25 yrd and use Fiocchi each time for baseline and they are obviously different. I debated on include shooting 3 different loads of that on this same day, but it's going to be its own video. Those 3 groups all hit LEFT of center, and up to 2" L. For defense range, I think I can still stagger different rounds, but for anything over 25 yards, the mag is going to have to be the same ammo. I'm going to see what I can do with the Sierra Blitzking vs. VMAX. That notion you mentioned about differences from session to session - is why I go through all this info the way I do. It's crazy how much I learn & observe by reviewing it and making the video. SS195/198 can really vary from LOT to LOT, in case that could explain your session diffs? I have tested that with various ammos and videos show it with some ammo. And not sure if you caught the true difference in those SS195/198 hits...but they are 7+ inches HIGH (& right), not low. just FYI. Now you have me wanting to get a Charger to see if they hit low, instead. I could see that being the case, but a bit bizarre. More drop, yes. But the POI shift up is more than overcoming that.

I figured they needed to be stacked together to work, but because trying to have room for the brass catcher, started playing around with placement and need the eye-relief, so the magnifier needs to be way back. That setup you described sure sounds interesting. Getting eye relief with this magnifier is a challenge on the LC way more than this one & both have same Romeo.

@@ShastaBean Not sure, like I said, I have only began to dabble in them, I am definitely still learning. The cheap Monstrum ones from Amazon are decent enough to experiment with and they don't break the bank, they seem to work for me. But I have always been a traditional rifle scope guy, only been playing with these prisims and magnifiers about a year maybe.

Is always amusing to see what she's up to when I'm not looking. That nose!! And yes, the HST did better than I expected. Clear gel just doesn't show the full wounding potential. I got tricked into believing that the temp-stretch doesn't equal permanent wound because of people burping that claim out over & over. I expected ~1" hole, and not that 2" crater. After doing this, I've gone and watched 10% organic test, and that shows the correct size (BuckeyBallistics). Now I need to figure out a way to debunk the whole "skin = 4" of gel" mumbo-jumbo. That's going to be tricky, for obvious reasons. heh

Glad I did it. It's shown me just how valuable your tests are in the 10% gel. Darn near identical (minus the bone).

legit.

inquiring minds want to know!

SB is anti brace and potential SBR otherwise he'd be all over it. Time may tell on the brace, let's keep working on him!! ;-)

I REALLY needed to see these in meat...& pleasantly surprised. I use a mix of ammo in magazines and these are a part of that rotation. Not sure if you or others have heard it as much as I have - where people say "the temporary-stretch cavity" shown in 10% organic gel doesn't translate to tissue with pistol round (velocity) and that the "permanent wound" is only the track behind the bullet and therefore only the size/diameter it expands to"...and that the temp-stretch cavity is only actual wounding with rifle velocities. I've questioned this and not sure where it comes from exactly, but it's repeated often. I think this shows it's not true? The cavity I see in this meat looks nearly identical to the video that BuckeyeBallistics (commented below) has in his 10% organic test. In synthetic, the wound channel diameter appears about half the size than what it shows here & in 10%. I'm no fan of "slow 'n heavy" rounds...but maybe I do need to do a 147 gr and see how those look? TLDR: HST is good stuff.

@@triggerbarPhD LOL @ "anti brace"!!! haha!! I'm anti "infringe"!!!!! I'd have multiple SBRs if I could just go buy one; 10mm, .45 ACP, 5.7 x 28, .300 BO, and probably a .308...maybe even a .223. And suppressors? I'd probably own 15 or 20 of those, too!! Very annoying, to say the least.

@@ShastaBean preach brother!! 😂🤣

@@triggerbarPhD oh...and maybe even a 8.6 BO...although I'm not entirely sold on that one. But since I have a bunch of .338 bullets - why not?

huh?

seems to be the case, at least... It'd be interesting to do 10 each with bare meat vs clothing and see if there's any degree of certainty. This came out the exact opposite of what I might have predicted. I've never yet seen one expand in synthetic - even from rifles, and in multiple 10% organic tests have shown nearly every one expand, except for one with 4x denim (Buckeye Ballistics).

Agreed - near perfect for pistol velocity. Two of the blades sheared off in gel from the rifle, though...in case that matters.

I'm a believer. Still...I am going to do an HST, Hornady or Speer, or something like that into a shoulder, and see if a 124 or 147 gr does anything near what these speedy rounds do. Buffman did a good deal of it a decade ago, but he cuts it down the length of the wound and I can't really tell just how much of an actual hole it's making.

Yes, this is the closest thing I've seen to a TSX for the pistol. I wonder how much difference 3 petals vs 4 makes...? I wish the meat was bigger so it didn't keep blowing the top out of these shoulders. Even when I try to impact a bit low in the front it still sends the top into the sky or an open flap. I'd like to see how big the hole actually is w/o blowing its lid. And from the rifle, this bullet lost 2 of the 3 petals...so, that's why I've put so much effort into the 45 gr TSX. It opened nicely in gel, but not as wide or deeply towards the base (thanks, synthetic!) ua-cam.com/video/J5--eiJyuIE/v-deo.html just FYI...I have it linked at the end screen of the video and trying to remember to do that when it makes sense The truly sucky part is not being able to buy any more of these...for a long time, now....like a year. Same with their fracturing & tipped varieties. So I only have this box of 200. I didn't want to overstock with something if they didn't work great. Same goes for the Blitzking are OOS for many months...although I did buy a bunch of those after initial test showed success. R&R must be buying up all of their volume.

This was a .22 cal? Thought it was a 5.7.

@@isaiahcarvalho8 5.7mm is .22”. It’s the weird thing that gun makers do to fool us. 😂🤣. Don’t mistake it, 556, 5.7x28, 22 lr, 22 mag all take the same or diameter bullets. It’s what they do with those bullets that makes the difference!

@@triggerbarPhD Only saw your reply after typing my own. durp. One minor detail, as I understand it - is 22LR is actually a .223 bullet unlike the others are .224.

They have the 37 gr Tipped-Fracturing available, today. Wish they had more of these, though...but maybe that's a good sign - that these could be coming again? At the same time, however...maybe the petals coming off after initial damage is a better way to get deeper? Once I get the 40 gr Raptor video done & uploaded...interesting result.

thanks 👍

cool

yes & better be a BIG elk..!!.~5000 ft-lbs would make a small cow go flying into the ravine below! haha A big moose or bison really might make sense. Or like you say, a big grizzly and still able to take them at some distance.

@@ShastaBean I just uploaded a test results video for Winchester Silvertip 22 LR vs CCI stinger. Meat and water jug combo test. Let me know what ya think. PS. If you keep making good 338 Lapua videos I will end up buying one.

Yes, I've come to believe velocity is far superior to penetration, for defense. These R&R loads have actually clocked above 2300 fps. I'm loading them myself ~2250 just to try to avoid any problems with primers. If you haven't seen what these do to pork shoulder... ua-cam.com/video/8Q2HhoHPn3Q/v-deo.html

Buffman's done it: ua-cam.com/video/w3eTHn9VrzE/v-deo.html and the vampire: ua-cam.com/video/-UdHBVkbL-0/v-deo.html

yup...although the one from the expanded round was significantly larger - like 3/4" instead of 1/4" LOL...I just did a poor job of showing it well - from being consumed with the giant crater the 5.7 Raptor bullet made. Velocity rules

@@ShastaBean did the one that expanded expand because it hit bone?

@@triggerbarPhD no. It expanded pretty much right away and then when it hit the bone @ ~8" made it stop and put a flattened edge on the expando. It was the opposite of what I expected, and figured the bare-shot would expand, but the denim would perhaps clog the 2nd shot. Odd.

If it expanded with denim and meat I guess that’s a good thing. Thanks for doing a real test with this ammo. Meat and bone pretty much sums up real life scenario. I’ve been wanting to test this round for a bit from a Phoenix arms HP-22 with a 3” barrel. Your test shows me don’t bother as it only starts to work decent from 3.6” barrel and on. Penetration wasn’t too bad as an average but I will stick with full power center fire handgun rounds for defense. I’m doing some 8x57 tests in next few weeks. Testing will be done with Persian model 30 carbine.

@@ShastaBean that’s really odd. I suspect it must be right on the threshold.

yes, thanks for asking. It was a gusher, for a little while. Was too tired by that time to be operating a blade. At least I know it's pretty sharp. durp

@@ShastaBean glad you are getting better! Ouch.

@@triggerbarPhD thanks. Lesson learned - don't do this sort of thing when you are tired, and then rushing. I need to figure out a better way to not end up having to cut & review the pork while also still having to factor in time to cook...it after a long day. I need a ranch (home-range).

@@ShastaBean amen to the home range thing. That’s a dream home for me! Not sure I’m willing to do what it takes to make it a reality but I have thought of digging out my basement adding a test range in! But permits… yuck.

I agree these are NOT the bullet for large animal. I do think we'd see far different outcome in gel with the heavier & slower SST being in play. I see people claim success & failure with nearly every single type of round. Could even be factual, who knows? Placement and distance (terminal velocity) are likely in play. To me, these are indistinguishable from the VMAX at this velocity. I expect SST have a slightly higher threshold for holding together, though. I was told they have a slightly thicker jacket. But when I compare this to the 110 gr V, it's very similar looking, although the retained base is double the weight, so I guess there's that. I suppose if I had pulled all the fragments and placed & weighed into a histogram then a person might see some difference in dispersion. But even having to do that to prove there's a difference, sort of proves there isn't much of one at 3000 fps. Too time consuming. I'll eventually do it for my own info, though when I get around to it. For a big animal, like a moose I'd want the heaviest round I could get to expand at whatever my max distance (low vel) might be. Probably a bonded, maybe all copper. It's no doubt tricky business picking a projectile...hunting or defense. I see hunting and defense as very different things. A gaping shallow wound is something I think an animal could manage to run with for miles & miles. An attack threat, I believe should expect to receive at least 3 in succession and far less likely to involve passing through the shoulder - whereas hunting it's sort of more of a given? Hitting bone is something that I now think alters performance more than maybe anything else. This testing for me is for defense. If moose hunting involved the beast coming towards you on 2 legs, then maybe 8-12 penetration would do just fine. lol (@ that visual).

oh and just to clarify...I'm not saying one can expect or assume to be ABLE to put 3 rds into an attacker...only meant it in the sense that hunting doesn't typically involve planning to shoot round after round into an animal...other than that upright moose coming at you on 2 legs. He's going to get more than 1 attempt at him.

funny...was just talking about that to my dad about people near me at the range with their SBRs. Trying to explain what a suppressor does for home defender who's got a super-loud ar pistol. Can't imagine one in .308. yikes!! The AK & AR15 variety at the range already knock me around plenty. So you don't have a sup on yours and shoot subs?

@@ShastaBean I have not yet gotten a suppressor, but definitely thinking about one. 308 in a 12.5" barrel is loud, and the muzzle blast will make long hair fly. I mainly bought it for feral hog hunting, still trying to figure out thermal and night vision though. Night vision and thermal are definitely in the "buy once, cry once" category, but I may get dehydrated with these tears...

@@Disastrous.Affect I have started to consider thermal/NV...but getting my feet wet seems overwhelming, so I haven't really dug in. Hearing you say that isn't helping!! haha. Actually it does - to be careful and thorough, but dang it's not cheap and surely would be easy to skimp to $ave. Duly noted! What did you go with, if you don't mind me asking? And are you happy with what you've worked out, so far? And yes, the .308 definitely punches! These light for caliber are something I really like. I've become a worshipper at the alter of velocity. I wouldn't want to wield the .308 if woken from a slumber, but all daytime/alert hours it's what is closest thing to me apart from what is in the holster on the belt. 25 rounds of 1-shot stoppers seems hard to beat.

@ShastaBean I have not bitten on anything yet. Kinda thinking about the Holosun thermal when it comes out, but probably put that on the 10mm. Still looking for the 308... I did look at the Holosun Night Vision, it was tempting... But I want to start with thermal on the 10mm, then NV on the 308... But I am really still just looking at this point.... Oh yeah, absolutely no way I want to touch this thing off indoors, even suppressed.🤷‍♂️

I might be massively overestimating their effects, but these really seem like two shots of 5.7 x 28 wrapped into one.

@@ShastaBean wow that’s incredible.

and this was the 9mm....can only imagine the puree mess that the 10mm Civil Defense, or OW would make? I still include some heavy, slow penetrators scattered in the magazine...but for sure these are my "go-to" in the chamber. I wish some LE agency would give rounds like this a try. I can't imagine perps continuing to advance on them after receiving 5 or 6 of these, like we regularly see with JHP. The only case I can currently see being made against them, is the drop in velocity over some distance, like 50 yards...Police might be more likely to take long shots like that, but civil defenders perhaps, too - even if unlikely...if being shot at from down or across a street or from some mall storefront. I need to find what is their BC. I bet it's not great, like maybe .06 or something.

@@ShastaBean great thoughts and yah that’ll be fun so see in 10mm. As I recall the poi shift was within the accuracy of all your shooting anyways right or within an inch or two. Yes would be nice to see stopping power of this in real life scenarios it gosh that looks to be devastating. And yah, I’m not worried about 50 yard shots…

@@triggerbarPhD ​ It seemed plenty fine (for me) at 7 yards...especially given what I've seen with the 2" difference in POI from shooting Overwatch at left target vs. right target (need to follow up on that phenomenon!!). Critical Defense was about ~1/2 to .7" high and ~.2" left. Still, probably worth shooting a full magazine of mixed ammo all at the same target and see what I get. Rinse & repeat. Then see if any different at 15 yards, and maybe 25 yards. Assuming BC of .06, with 7 yd zero and .8" sight-over-bore, at 25 yards, this would hit .5" higher than 115 gr @ 1135 fps muzzle & 2 inches higher at 50 yards due to its velocity...if that somehow made any difference where I'd be hitting with a pistol at 50 yards??? Color me skeptical with I'm sure what would be like 2 or 3 foot groups regardless of ammo. haha. Besides L.E. I mentioned perhaps it matters...also, for people that use 9mm PCC for hogs are who might want to take into consideration POI or drop or loss of energy, if shooting at 100 yards or more. I sure wouldn't use it, or any 9mm at that distance. It'd have like just 140 ft# of energy at 100 yards...and 100 ft# at 150 yd. I see lots of comments of people describing what it does to hogs...devastating. They never say the distance, though. My 45 gr TSX with its BC of .188 from the Ruger LC would still be cooking with 264 ft# at 150 yd. Although it wouldn't open at 1724 fps...but the energy is there - and maybe if use another bullet like Hornady BEE in 45 gr or whatever would open up. Paul Harrel's video...@ 15 yards: w/Barretta it was ~2" lower with the Liberty CD, but with the M&Pc, it was effectively the same (at 10 yards). "not enough difference, to make a difference". TLDR...again, typing out-loud. heh

For me, it's not that precise and just testing and tracking results. I can't sit there all day to shoot a few rounds. I shoot a couple of groups, and then switch to a different rifle and rotate. My rifles are cheap factory budget models. It's not that important for me. I don't get it red-hot. I don't know a whole lot about competition precision shooting, but I do believe they have to shoot with a warm barrel because there's not enough time to let it cool. So they shoot fouling-shot(s) to ensure they don't have a very different 1st shot and then the rest grouped elsewhere. Hunters (at distance), on the other hand...need to know very well where their cold-bore shot is going to hit, and if needed a 2nd or more shot.

R&R looks to sell a loading with this bullet...not sure how reliable their ammo is these days, though. Light Primer Strikes for some, in recent year(s). I know they are aware, but haven't heard of what, if anything they've done about it.

Thanks! When I 1st tested these (and the 38 grain w/LC) in gel I was mad that they don't have a base that continues straight (like advertised)...then, after testing a bunch of others that do give that outcome, thought "well, if someone turns out to want a round that only detonates 5 - 9" (9-11" w/LC & 38 gr) then these are really the only choice out there"...turns out that someone is ME! haha. Did you shoot those 300 BOs into gel?

I've moved from the belief of penetration being necessary to now thinking that a 7 or 8" deep hole that's 3 or 4" wide would likely do the trick to stop a threat.

I laughed very out loud when I was reviewing footage and came to realize that a hunk of the meat went flying into low-earth-orbit. Definitely wouldn't want to receive one of these.

I was pretty disappointed when testing these in gel to learn there's no base that penetrates deep. But thought maybe they'd still be potent. Now I have a few of these in my carry magazine.

yeah, can hardly be considered handgun velocity. I wondered if the petals would make small, narrow slices...or if it would look like a grenade went off inside. Got my answer.