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I really enjoyed This Present Darkness

I will be doing this next month!

Behold I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me Ps 51:5 All mankind are walking to Hell from birth, Even that innocent Child however it is cover by the blood of Jesus to the age of accountability. The child need to be born again when they can understand the difference between good and evil. They need salvation through Christ. Presumptuous Sin Problem? Take each sin to Jesus ask Him to remove and order your steps in His word! The Rapture is real short Repent Evg Travis

Frank Peretti is one of the best writers to ever live!

It was recorded at the Steeling the Mind conference through Compass International. Google and you'll find the website where you can order the DVD. The rest of the talk expands on it and is excellent. I highly recommend it. As a biblical counselor, I've used this many times to help people understand where their sense of value and worth needs to come from, our one and only eternally fixed point of reference, God.

Lelz...Italian overhead. xD

Thank you so much!

I don't know that I agree with much of anything in this entire speech, but I've seen the whole thing, and YES, it's actually amazing. One of the most riveting speech deliveries I think I've ever seen. I'd like to watch the whole thing again, if I could. Very memorable, just exceptional delivery. Some of the content outright repels me, some of it has me rolling my eyes in a mixture of disgust or even derision at the inaccuracy or misleading nature. But I still deem this a masterpiece speech.

Do you know how I could find a fuller version of this lecture?

it will always be "This Present Darkness" for me. reading that book changed my idea of how the unseen battle in the heavenlies spills out into the physical world. spiritural warfare became interesting to me.

WOW!!! I read his book House w/ Ted Dekker and its sooooooooooo different from this...

Thanks for posting!

theism is dead, doctrines are man made and only serve to distract and divide, the only value in any religion is that we teach love- to give it, to embrace it

Best Christian author.

@mrchaucer Unfortunately, it is pariahs like Medved who set themselves up as authorities of the truth, not me. Medved was a major reason I became an atheist (and you've helped me admirably in that direction too). But really- "it doesn't matter what seems to be rather what is." Pardon my epistemology, but what seems to you as progression of thought, is in fact a naive best-selling author leading the blind. Try getting your own eyes checked before telling an ex-Christian what is and isn't.

@mrchaucer "Neither you nor I get to make the standard by which right and wrong are determined, or in this specific case, by which possession is determined." So who does set the standard anyway? Augustine? Aquinas? Calvin? Erasmus? Milton? Spurgeon? Ned Flanders? WELL WHO? PROVIDE PROOF WHILE YOU"RE AT IT!! Oh, and who's the authority on possession anyways? Peretti? Linda Blair? Or who would you trust to determine if an exorcism was real or phoney? The Catholic Church or Skeptical Inquirer?

BTW...if we are using the ability to speak "good english" as a litmus to determine possession, then a large portion of Western society would qualify as possessed. Another aspect of this would be the logical fallacy of a straw man. Neither you nor I get to make the standard by which right and wrong are determined, or in this specific case, by which possession is determined. What matters is what is...the actuality of reality...not what "seems to be" or what you or I "think".

@80srama1 You put people's names up as if they somehow are the authorities of truth. People are fallible and the fact of the matter is that I could care less what Michael Medved says unless he has sound logic to support what he says. Peretti's 'unsupported statements' were anything but unsupported. He illustrated the logical progression of thought to support his conclusion. No...I don't think he seemed 'possessed'...goofy...yes. But it doesn't matter what seems to be but rather what is.

@mrchaucer "No proof, no evidence, and no reasoning for anyone to believe you or take you seriously." Well, that should teach me to emulate Michael Medved. Or would Mr Chaucer prefer I jump around in front of a paying audience, making goofy sounds and simple unsupported 'statments' laden with assumptions and a chair for reference? Also, don't you think Peretti in this seminar comes across as if he's possessed? After all, he doesn't speak good english either.

@mrchaucer "No proof, no evidence, and no reasoning for anyone to believe you or take you seriously." Well, that should teach me to emulate Michael Medved. Or would Mr Chaucer prefer I jump around in front of a paying audience, making goofy sounds and simple unsupported 'statments' laden with assumptions and a chair for reference? Also, don't you think Peretti in this seminar almost seems possessed. After all, he doesn't speak good english either.

@mrchaucer "You gave nothing more than simple unsupported 'statements' laden with assumptions... No proof, no evidence, and no reasoning for anyone to believe you or take you seriously." Well, I was trying to emulate Michael Medved's style. Or would you prefer I provide no proof or no evidence similar to Peretti, who makes goofy sound effects while jumping around in front of an audience. Say, do you think Peretti himself is possessed? He doesn't speak good english either.

@mrchaucer Frankly, if you think me as one of those "duped and/or relgeated to the category of amoralist" with only the "Biblical standpoint" as YOUR one whit of argumenation, I don't think even with the evidence of Nurernberg at hand I could convince you of Auschwtiz's existence, any more than I could convince Texe Marrs. Oh by the way, is Obama the anti-Christ? Or is Sara Palin? What do you think?

@80srama1 Those involved in the New Age, those ascribing to secular humanism, pro-abortion advocates, and evolutionists have either been duped and/.or are relegated to the category of amoralist by their very belief systems. From a Biblical standpoint, the above listed beliefs are antithetical to the Word. I will not agree with calling people 'snakes' in a carte blanch manner at all. You have still failed to support your argumentation one whit.

First off, This Present Darkness and Tex Marrs Dark Secrets of the New Age a year, both riding on same late 80's end-times paranoia that Dave Hunt was also exploiting: all New-Agers were one with Satan and involved in a conspiracy to bring America into line with the devil. Whatever their differences, both Peretti and Marrs sincerely propagated this same brand of mid-80's Evangelical quackery, and the similarities go way beyond just "mere association". More evidence to follow.

Figuratively or literally, Peretti still presents a worldview that offends me much as The Da Vinci Code offended most True Believers. But how Christians can whine endlessly about Dan Brown's anti-Christian agenda while praising Peretti who blatantly presents all-New Agers, secular humanists, pro-choicers and evolutionists as either dupes, demon possessed or amoral snakes involved in conspiracies against God fearing Americans is beyond me. spiritual warfare? Call that spiritual warfare?

You made claims about Peretti’s presentation, Peretti’s readers, Peretti’s publishing house, Texx Marrs, and Texx Marrs’ teachings without a single shred of evidence to support your position on any of your claims. You gave nothing more than simple unsupported ‘statements’ laden with assumptions…No proof, no evidence, and no reasoning for anyone to believe you or take you seriously; you statements contain assumptions and logical fallacy.

Carte blanch and unsupported statements about the anti-Semitic and paranoid writing along with using ‘evangelical’ as an aspersion do nothing to promote your claims and in fact, do more to harm your position than anything. I am not supporting Texx Marrs, nor am I saying I agree with him. Just in case you think I do.

Here is another example: Premise A: “Bin Laden was a terrorist.” Premise B: “Bin Laden had a beard.” Conclusion: “Therefore, anyone who has a beard is a terrorist.” The red herring fallacy is one of distraction from the real issue at hand. Using a statement or claim to pull the divert attention from the main point of the discussion. You post went from Perretti’s presentation to conspiracy theories, Texx Marrs, and anti-Semitism without ever connecting them with Perretti’s presentation.

It is sort of like saying the following: Premise A: “There are clouds in the sky.” Premise B: “It is raining.” Conclusion: “Therefore, whenever there are clouds in the sky, it rains.” You can see how this association fallacy contradicts the law of the excluded middle. Just because two things have something in common does not make them the same.

Third, you make the logical fallacy of the red herring or at least an association fallacy. Just because Peretti and Marrs have the same publishing house does not mean they agree, and simply because there is a similarity between Marrs’ non-fiction and Peretti’s fiction content, does not mean that they are saying the same things. In either case, one would have to address each stance based upon its merits or shortcomings on an individual basis, not in a ‘guilt by association’ argument.

The fact of the matter is that Frank himself has refuted unequivocally; “This Present Darkness” is a fictional representation and is not intended to be taken literally; rather it is meant figuratively, in the sense that we are involved in spiritual warfare. Not that angles and demons can hack wings from each other or anything quite so trite.

Most people today, Christian or not, have no grasp on basic logic and worldview issues. Frank does a great job at taking something that most people find difficult to understand and putting it in language that is easier to comprehend. Second off, it would seem that you are implying that Frank Peretti or those who learned from his presentation actually think, “This Present Darkness” is “living gospel” as opposed to “pulp Christianity”.

@80srama1 I find it interesting that you claim Peretti’s presentation is “shallow and tedious, tolerable to the fools who take “This Present Darkness” as living gospel, not as pulp Christianity.”” First off, his presentation is anything but shallow and tedious. It is simple and easy to understand, but that is not the same thing as “shallow”. He uses repetition as a teaching tool, but that does not make it “tedious”.

Peretti's presentation is shallow and tedious, tolerable to the fools who take "This Present Darkness" as living gospel, not as pulp Christianity." Point of interest: "Darkness" was published by Crossway Books, the same organization that published the paranoid works of evangelical wacko Texx Marrs, who now promotes anti-Semitic conspiracies in broad daylight scarier than any of the fictional anti-Christian forces that Peretti loved exploit. Point of reference indeed!!

I've watched this whole talk SO many times...it never gets old...and never loses its relevance. Frank rocks. 'Specially when he pretends to be a chicken. :P

This video is SO awesome!! Any way we can see the whole thing? EVERY teenager should watch it.

@nickvantassel The reason we need a Savior is because of sin. The foundation of this belief is the Bible but I have also been convicted through my own personal experiences. I know if I were to reject God, my sin and failure would overwhelm me. I know I need him. See, when God created mankind, there was no sin. When man sinned, all of humanity bore the consequences of the act. But when God sent his sin to die on the cross to take our punishment, that act provided salvation for all mankind.

@TwentyYearDenial (5) ...are sinners, both the good and the bad. We are all in need of a Savior. Even if we've done millions of good things in our lives, that can't erase the bad we've done also. We've all felt guilt and shame at one point in our lives and we've all felt hurt at the expense of another. That doesn't mean a lot of people try to live as good people, but doing good things does not erase our nature. And it's because of our sin that we all need Jesus Christ, who forgives us of sin.

@TwentyYearDenial (4) ...comparing Hitler and Mother Teresa. But what about people who do nothing espacially great in their lives but also never commit a crime or be especially rude to others? What about those who live for themselves but don't hurt other people? Are they good or bad? See, without God, I believe that it in the end, it doesn't matter. (I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to be good, so keep reading.) But no matter how much good we do in this life, we have all sinned. We all...

@TwentyYearDenial (3) ...all the wrong choices. That's not what I'm implying or what I believe when I say mankind is sinful. When I say that we have a sinful nature, I'm talking about both the good and the bad people. I'm saying that we have all done bad things in our lives, even though many of us are very good people. I'm trying to say that there's this standard that everyone has fallen short of because all have sinned. It's easy to divide people into groups of either "good" or "bad" when...

@TwentyYearDenial (2) ...majority of people make good choices, why isn't the world in a better condition than it is now?" I think if we're trying to decided whether or not there are more good people than bad people in the world, the debate could go on eternally. We could both cite example of great and merciful deeds, but also of horrific and evil ones. But I'm not trying to say there's more bad people than good in the world or that because humans are sinful that the majority of people make...

@TwentyYearDenial (1) You make some very good points. First off, I just want to clear my position by what I mean by a sinful nature. I'm not saying that everyone is evil because everyone is sinful or that there are not a whole lot of good people in the world, because there are. But how can we know if there are more good than bad in the world? You asked the question, "If the majority of people make bad choices, why isn't the world in worse condition?" Firstly, couldn't one also ask, "If the...

@SongofSongs8 3/3 (last one, I promise) But would we have charities, relief, hospitals, or anything of that sort, if humans were naturally sinful, as you say? Think about all the good that has been done, and then think of all the good that goes unrecognized, all around us. I think it's a shame to slap this label on human beings as 'sinful', because most humans have the inner ambition to do good. Most humans wouldn't kill or steal, and that's why there are more innocent than guilty people.

@SongofSongs8 2/2 can reasonably say that they are good people, though they may have committed sin in their lives. People go through their lives making choices every day, that do not constitute sin. I'm not disagreeing that there are some sick people in the world with ill will, but without a doubt, there are more good than bad. Yesterday, tsunamis hit Japan; will we donate and lend help as a species, or lend no help? When I watch those things, I come to tears, and so do most people I know.

@SongofSongs8 1/2 I think there have been bad choices and good choices, but the majority have been good choices. I hear people say sometimes that humans sway towards sin, or sin by nature, but I see the opposite. If the majority of people make bad choices, why isn't the world in worse condition? Humans are prone to some of the supposed riches that are obtained through sin. Think about all that fought against Hitler in the name of good, against the atrocities that Hitler committed. I think we...

His voice underbellies his incredible intellect XD hahaha...But I love his voice for some reason... :P His books are insanely awesome and deep...I love em' all ^_^

@rentintin2000 :-)

@SongofSongs8 Also, the Bible lays out Christianity in a way different than other religions. It goes through history, real people, places, and times to reveal God's character, love, mercy, justice, and power. It proves it's worth by passing the test of time and being relevant to all people of every time and place. It is not restricted to the Biblical times, but is relevant and useful to this modern culture, and to this day and age as well.

@SongofSongs8 ... I was born into a sinful nature. By "an old book," I assume you mean the Bible. Beyond that, it carries God's truth. In fact it IS the Truth. It is God's Word, a Christian's point of reference (that Frank Peretti was talking about) about how to live our lives. The Bible is more than just another religious book, full of rules, philosophy, and traditions. It is the actual, living Word of God. It speaks to all generations of every race, age, and nationality.