Відео

I love this video and agree with your thoughts. I think that rebirth was actually quite forward about the “love triangle” only existing within individual perspectives both to other characters (like Zack finding out from Marlene that Aerith “likes Cloud “) and the fans who take a gameplay mechanism like affection points and act like it has any barring on the written plot. The fact is that while the player has direct control over the party member that he spends time with at GS they have zero control over Cloud's behavior during any of these scenarios. More than even that though, there is so much dialogue and body language we see from Cloud that shows that he has no romantic intent with Aerith. Even at the end of their big GS date when Aerith basically says thank you for being here with me, Cloud's response is “but I didn't do anything” and I'm supposed to believe he's falling in love with her? No. There is a difference between attraction and intention. Cloud may have the former when it comes to Aerith but he doesn't have romantic intent and I think there are numerous moments both in the OG and remakes where his boundary with Aerith is obvious, as is his clear romantic intention with Tifa. Aerith is more interesting because I truly believe her feelings leave room for ambiguity and player interpretation, this is not a bad thing because it makes her a more complex character who struggles to define her feelings. However, therein lies the problem. These are Aerith's feelings, nobody elses. Unfortunately I believe that a lot of fans project Aerith complex feelings for Cloud onto Cloud as an individual. This creates situations where people assume that Cloud is torn between Aerith and Tifa but the thing is that Cloud is not torn between Aerith and Tifa. There is a clear romantic boundary that he never crosses with Aerith and in fact at several points tries to dissuade her from acting like they are a couple or reacts with polite indifference. This is important because it shows that Cloud doesn't want to give Tifa the wrong idea of his relationship with Aerith. The affection system may give players the illusion (that wasn't on purpose I swear) that Cloud is romantically interested in two women but in reality the opposite is true. Two women are romantically interested in Cloud and one of them dies. No amount of narrative spin changes this, that is how the plot functions and any player's interpretation of choices before or after that moment should not be used to argue that the devs don't have clear intentions for Cloud's feelings because that is absolutely untrue. Anyway, great work here!

Here in 2024 and the remake games again are using the same plot it's just presented differently. Tifa is still the true love interest. However, it's less subtle than OG since you can hear the tone and expressions Cloud uses on Tifa. You are able to see how Cloud interacts differently to each date. Only Tifa's date is romantic.

Unfortunately, I wasn't around in 1997 when _Final Fantasy VII_ first came out and never had a PlayStation 1 so my first true exposure to the story was in _Remake._ Upon multiple replays over the past few years (and with the added context from _Rebirth)_ I can agree that the love triangle never really existed. Aerith does like Cloud, but she's not naive. She knows his heart is Tifa's and Tifa's is his from the minute she sees the flower she gave him in Seventh Heaven. She knows he will never return whatever feelings she may or may not have for him. Cloud is and isn't Cloud at the beginning of _Final Fantasy VII._ What I mean by that is that he's part Cloud, part Zack, and part Sephiroth. Aerith looks at him and likes him, but she also sees a lot of Zack in him. Cloud tells Aerith in Chapter 8 to stop acting like she knows him because she honestly doesn't know him. She's going off of a gut feeling and because she probably recognizes Zack's Buster Sword and just implicitly trusts him based on those two things. Of all the party members (Barrett, Tifa, Aerith, Red XIII, Yuffie, and Cait Sith) Tifa is the only person who knew Cloud Strife before the events of _Final Fantasy VII._ That history is crucial. She's the only person who knows who Cloud really is. She's the only person he has a strong enough emotional attachment to to either save or break him. Sephiroth (at least in the _Remake_ timeline,) is _very_ aware that she's something special to him and can potentially break his hold on Cloud's fractured psyche. Whenever Cloud has a memory headache, it's Tifa who centers him and brings him back to reality. He does something similar for her. It's his return to Midgar that helps her let go and not use solely anger to combat Shinra. It's his return to her life that gives her hope. They have a level of trust and Cloud shows a level of vulnerability (from hugging her after the destruction of Sector 7 to confiding in her about not knowing who he really is) that he never does with any other party member. If it comes down to it, Aerith will always choose saving the planet and stopping Sephiroth over Cloud while Tifa will always choose Cloud, even if it means they all die. (Not that she won't try her absolute hardest to do both, but she won't sacrifice Cloud to save the planet)

Kinda symbolic that Tifa's last name is Lockhart. Since she holds the key to Clouds heart and SHE is the key to his heart :D Really clever way to hide such an important plot point right infront of the players all along.

Good video, but I disagree. The death of a character and said character being a love interest is not mutually exclusive or indicative or writer's intent. The star-crossed lovers trope is valid, but you are also arguing a 3D point in a 4D Remake world. I find it interesting that many fan bases that argue Aerith shouldn't be alive are oddly advocates of Zack playing a larger role, but I digress. My point is that this doesn't even have to be a Star-crossed tale anymore. Just to flag, I'm not a basement dweller - been at a Multinational VG Publisher for some time now, splitting my time between London and Tokyo. Not saying Tifa is not valid, she is - and I believe there is purposefully no Canon. We as westerners are arrogant in thinking that there always has to be a primary narrative or Canon. This simply isn't the case in a lot of Japanese media. Player choice has absolutely always been front and centre in FF7, from the date, to the Highwind.

Coming back to this video to request a part two now that both remake and rebirth have been out. would love to hear your thoughts on how the story is developing

Dude, your analysis of FFVII is spot on.

The best video on Tifa ever and this pretty much do justice to the whole narrative. No matter how they wanna twist it, the original narrative will be what it is.

Great analysis. I don’t think you were bragging when you said you understood the story better than maybe some developers. It was a beautiful realization for me when you made the connection that Tifa is Cloud’s promised land. I have come to understand Aerith’s role better too and agree that she is more like a spiritual guide. Throughout the remake, she makes her flirty comments here and there but ultimately I felt that she knew that Tifa was someone very important to Cloud.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight. It definitely deserves more views. Even though I always knew Tifa is Cloud’s true love interest, I still learned new a good deal from your video about storytelling in general. I don’t think Remake and Rebirth have weakened your argument, but rather reinforced it.

This video get Old like Wine/Wisky

I knew since the day I played the game from the start that the real love story was Tifa and Cloud. I never bought that it was Aerith. Aerith wasn't there for long. Aerith wasn't the one who kept the group together. Tifa is the mother of the group. She is the one who protects others. And how can you not find that totally hot. Plus well her ummm...

According to your analyses you have to be elated by Remake serie so far 😁 Not only it strongly supports everything you said and driving home all your pionts. It looks like devs are trying to clarify the relation ship and plot more, even when they dosturb that narrative a bit. Rebirth especially, giving all those wonderful moments for Cloud and Tifa, crowned with on screen kiss ❤ And on top of that reviving Zack to become a part of the plot.

This is a brilliant video. I wouldn't say the remakes changed anything per se, but they are making Cloud and Tifa a lot more obvious. Especially in Rebirth where they really steal the show for most of the game. So really the opposite of what you feared. Instead of milking the imaginary love triangle they focused on Cloud and Tifa and let the triangle whither.

The creators of the remake are not creating a love triangle. Cloud in rebirth straight-up friendzones Aerith. They are making it even clearer that Cloud romantic interest is Tifa and only Tifa.

So far i have only watched one minute and after being obsessed with this game for years all i can say agreed

Love this so much ! Just plain simple explanation of the story. Btw, hope you have read TOTP, they provide much needed context to Tifa & Cloud's childhood, where they did ineed play as kids but later on drifted apart (Cloud's jealousy most likely the trigger). Anyway, regardless this aged like fine wine, thanks for your work !

This is exactly what i understood from the story. Blows my mind, people ignore everything you just said!

This aged like fine wine, having just finished playing Rebirth. You're spot on dude.

Curious listening to all of this what your opinion is about this dynamic in the Retrilogy atm given how the books/games have fleshed it out even more and added layers of detail to make the characters even more believable. Its my own belief that while what you summarized in the video to already be conclusive as presented in OG. That at its core OG fails to develop characters realistically enough to make the character story have no rough edges to it. It makes sense of the medium that was PSX polygon gaming at the time though. But allot of whats stated in the video can now be analyzed to an even greater extent to the points you made. Which might sound indulgent on my part and others. But I guess its just fun hearing the developed opinion of someone that was already thoroughly considered in a hour long video regarding the original

With all of that I still say it would work best if Aerith become Tifas best friend and Cloud falls in love with her. That gives so much stakes to Sephiroth fight. In a perfect world they could talk like adults after. Aeriths arc - being in a cage since childhood, achieving freedom, finding love, finding a family, ending with discovery of details of her heritage and being buried in the capital of her ancestors is so beautiful. It was so maddening having a perfectly happy Cloud, who understands Aeriths sacrifice going survivors guilt in AC.

You lost me here - people don't focus on one girl for their whole life to leave her when a new girl comes up. You said reality doesn't work like that. I think we are living in different worlds. All the divorced ppl I know ended that way. Girls more than guys tbh. Speaking from og perspective without reading supplement material. Because the perspective is before it was written. As far as the love triangle thing. Ye there is none. At most it is implied but Cloud doesn't know anyone loves him. Aerith flirts with him and after everything he implies he enjoyed it but that's the most. Tifa doesn't really say she loves him neither. In the high affection scene she pushes him to show physically how he feels since he doesn't know what to say. Realistically best scenario girl can tell you. Though it was written in ultimania that high affection scene is still ambiguous. Funny story with that is the guy writting the scene wanted them to be in highwinds chocobo barn together. Later walking out saying we did it. They said hes stupid and told him it should be ambiguous. Og Tifa is also an unrealiable narrator. She doesn't remember 100% of her past. Not confronting Cloud about it comes from this. And in the lifestream Cloud tells her flat out - we grown up near each other but we DIDNT know each other. Though tbh confronting Tifa with her obsession of Cloud isn't damaging to that relationship. In that moment they are literally building it for the first time. You have a good point Aerith left Cloud, Tifa stayed. I think it's literally the best cloti point. And I'm here on the fence. The whole plot vs narrative thing. There is a difference when a Cetra must stop Sephiroth and there is only one. The end is Cloud sitting with Tifa thinking about Aerith. I have a suspicion this is the direct start of shipping wars. In the whole ff7 media Cloud doesn't show any preference while both women love him(albeit one after death). I'm 100% sure he would never do it if they both lived. So the answer to the triangle in whole ff7 media is there never was one. And there is no cannon girlfriend. While Cloud clearly wants sex more from Tifa and likes to flirt more with Aerith and treats her like a soulmate there is no action from him. He only looks inwards.

great analysis.

Subscribed! I'm glad to fins your channel, your way of explaining is so comprehensive and well arranged

I really hope the third part will finally put a rest to this shipping war so we can move forward lol

That’s interesting, why do you think Cloud is sterile/infertile? Excellent analysis btw.

I think it’s a general detachment from Christianity and Judaism that lets Japanese fiction writers approach it from such interesting angles. I had never thought of FMA when thinking on FF7, but as soon as you showed the scene of Edward in the white space, my brain literally auto-filled where you were going and I went “holy shit, how have I never seen that correlation?” I really do think committing Aerith to the LTD ends up degrading her character. People are so busy wanting her to live that they completely miss the point of her ( willingly ) giving her life for the planet. The fight for the planet is a war on two fronts: the physical side of the Lifestream where Cloud and co need to kill Sephiroth, and the spiritual where Aerith needs to rally the Lifestream to fight/counter Sephiroth. To quote a wise Jedi Master, “if you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine”

You know, i was wondering how they were going to connect the remake trilogy to advent children and this makes so much more sense now. you covered absolutely everything i was and wasnt thinking about and even gave a perfect explanation using an anime i never thought would have anything to do with ff7😅 I discovered your channel when i was looking for opnions on ships and saw your narrative vs plot vid and i gotta say you are one of if not the best at giving concrete evidence and explanations for how and why things are the way they are in the game snd side content, putting my exact thoughts into words with each video for ff7 Keep up the great content😁

You hit every nail on its head here everything from the analogies, the parallels, the pacing, and the gnostic explanations. You put together a very cogent and tightly crafted Video essay on the complexities of this story. Cloud deserves all the celebration and praise in the world, he fought tooth and nail to find his promised land within Tifa. He did everything to protect her. But she wouldn’t give him up either. Tifa had all the time in the world to move more towards their relationship than Cloud probably did. The most pivotal moment in their story, the very catalyst of their relationship; the promise at the water tower. That was her. That was Tifa being forthcoming about her wants and feelings. She put forward a suggestion and asked him to make good on it, setting everything into motion. During the Nibel incident, Cloud wouldn’t even *acknowledge* Tifa for fear of giving himself away outside of intervening when her life was literally in danger. Tifa was the one to close the distance between them when he injured himself, get him onto his feet, and help him all the way back down the mountain. Later on? Cloud’s role as avalanche’s leader? Literally spearheading the cause of planetary salvation? Wouldn’t have happened had Tifa not taken him in, vouched for his addition to the party, and subsequently secure him housing AGAIN after that in stargazer heights. During her resolution, Tifa’s inner turmoil takes over and she hugs him, closing the distance between them again. *!!!!!REBIRTH SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!!* After the weapon encounter in Gongaga, Tifa is the one to go in for an almost-kiss. Cloud wants this, but is shook and doesn’t know how to react. The reason he can initiate a kiss during their date is because Tifa invited him to go out with her that night. *!!!!END OF SPOILERS!!!!!* In Mideel, Tifa literally drops everything to show up for Cloud. To stay with him despite it all. Their fight with Shinra. Their hunt for Sephiroth. The race to literally save the world-she decides, are not as important. Then right after that, you have the lifestream sequence. Tifa takes Cloud’s mind, his entire life in her hands and puts him back together. Makes him whole again. Bro Somewhere along the storyboarding, Tifa must have pointed to Cloud and said “this is mine” and the planet, lifestream, and everyone involved just agreed. She earned it

Just read your metacritic review and i totally agree, so much padding and bloat. The scene at the end was ruined.

I'm 3 years late to this but I have to write this comment anyway, because among all the arguments and essays and what's not, reasonably or not, this video the only one that addresses the love triangle issues (or the lack there of) objectively through the narrative and plot view. I've just finished playing FFVII OG and FF7 Remake, and here are some of my inputs, through the same narrative and plot view. Disclaimer: I like Tifa, and support Cloud x Tifa, mostly because the pairing makes sense more, story-wise. And I don't take into account any side materials (novel, Ultimania, guidebook, because those may or may not adhere to the story presented in the game as it's intended to be). 1. Back when I first played FFVII OG as a kid, I didn't think much about the love triangle issue. With my limited English and life experience at the time, I didn't see a clear answer as to who Cloud is in love with, who Cloud loves MORE, or if he, in the present, is in love with anyone :))))) The game never explicitly said and showed clearly that. The game did said/showed (and this part we can all agree) that he HAD a crush on Tifa. But even I, who like Tifa, still shrugged if off as yeah, childhood friends, childhood crush, past thing. The triangle war was simply the war of which girl PEOPLE want Cloud to be with. 2. As I replayed FFVII a few times later, and most recently, right before I played FFVII, it comes clear to me that: "Hey, there's never a love triangle to begin with." Why? Let's disregard all the optional scene and choice dialogues (meaning who drags Cloud out on a Gold Saucer date won't be taken into account), Cloud's canon interaction with Aerith is very minimal. If my memory serves me correctly the only portion that they spend time together is the Sector 5's slum and Wall Market's section. And during that, the only time that he shows any softness towards her is when he jokes about her being a SOILDER candidate, and they laugh together. The conversation in the park has choices dialogue so I don't count that. After that, and the sewer section, Aerith gets taken by Shinra, and commence the rescue mission. During the whole rescue mission, they barely interactive personally. In the prison scene, Aerith is put in a separate cell, but Cloud and Tifa is put together. I could try to give a story-wise explanation for the cellmate selection here (Aerith is the prized specimen so she is kept separately; Barret and Red XIII is the "fiery" team so they're together; then Cloud and Tifa), but I don't think it matters much. What matters is the lack of interaction between Cloud and Aerith on a personal level here (and in contrast, the "closeness" of Cloud and Tifa), and it fits well with the story. Then comes the escape from Shinra Building, during which Tifa choose to stay behind for Cloud. The arrangement just fits best for the story and gameplay. Why? The gang comes to rescue Aerith, so her escape is the priority, so she can't stay behind waiting for Cloud (that would defeat the purpose). Red XIII can't stay back for Cloud, because he barely know Cloud - he has no reason to, and he also wants to escape. Barret can't, because, it's gonna be gay :))))) Who would let 2 girls running with a dog while he waits for another dude? :)))))) Also, the next boss fight is in the elevator where you can only do long range attack, so a gun-man here and 2 mages make more sense, battle-wise (of course there's the Long Range Attack Materia, but you get my reason, right?). After that, you don't get anymore non-optional interaction-on-a-personal-level scene between Cloud and Aerith (except for that one line in Cosmo Canyon, at the bonfire, where Cloud said "but I'm... we're here for you, right"; and Gongaga scene, which is optionally entirely, and even the dialogue is choice dialogue), until The Temple of Ancients. And that portion is actually Aerith's character arc, and it doesn't have much to do with Cloud personally. Cloud is related to that arc, of course, but that's because of Sephiroth, not because of Aerith. Again, the stress here is, on personal level. It means that they are both related to the story (or more specifically, Sephiroth, at the point of the game), just not together. Cloud's story with Sephiroth actually has nothing to do with Aerith. And Aerith's story with Sephiroth is not related directly to Cloud. And then the infamous end of Disc 1. My point is that, throughout the game, there's actually not much going on between Cloud and Aerith, non-optionally, to actually develop into anything romantically (she didn't even get the date that she made Cloud agree to, canonically). It just doesn't make sense, story-telling-wise, to make him in love with her. All the choice dialogues that you get to choose to be "romantic" to her serves 2 purposes: 1) to get you involve in the game (remember, it's a game after all) and 2) to bring you high and drop you hard by the end of disc 1. 3. Back to Tifa. Again, drop all the optional stuff, what do you get with Tifa? The history of being childhood friend, and the hero promise. She and Cloud are put in the same prison cell in Shinra Building, explained above, story-wise. She stays behind waiting for him, also explained above as to why she's the best choice, story-wise. When Cloud is telling the story of Nibelhelm 5 years ago, she shows some reaction (others just listen, because they are clueless about the event). In Junon, after the incident with Priscilla, the voice in Cloud's head mentions Tifa. At the bonfire in Cosmo Canyon, she voices her concern about whether Cloud is Cloud. THEN (her major presence so far) is at Northern Crater where Cloud is being mind-f**cked by Sephiroth. Tifa being present in that scene is non-optional, and she has interaction with both Cloud and Sephiroth. Then the famous Lifestream scene. The Highwind scene. and if I have to count, the ending FMV, during which Cloud reaches out to a hand, seemingly Aerith's, but it turns out to be Tifa's, and then they dangle together on the cliff, all the while saying they can meet Aerith :))))) As said, Tifa is actually present and has more interaction with Cloud than Aerith is. She has always been there, albeit a bit in the shadow. Now, that still doesn't mean that just because so Cloud is in love with Tifa. The point here is that considering how all the interaction is presented, Cloud being in love with Tifa makes more sense than he being in love with Aerith story-wise, IF he's ever be in love with either of them. Otherwise, it's just illogical and downright bad writing. This is not a romance novel, or a harem anime where love (and all the drama with love) is the center focus. You, or the game developers, can pull an Uno Reverse Card and said "Cloud is in love with Aerith. His crush on Tifa is just a child thing. Once she helped him regain his self and memories, they are now just friend. He has come to love Aerith and still loves her now." o_O The hell was that. If that happens, the whole Life Stream scene and Cloud's back story reveal become pointless. 4. A bit more on the Highwind scene. When everybody talks about the Highwind scene, they talk about whether Cloud and Tifa had sex (I didn't even know about that until much later). But regardless of whether they did anything in the Chocobo stable, it's a scene that can just not happen (weak writing though if that's the case) and we can just proceed to the finally battle. But they (the game maker) choose to make it happen. Why? To show that everybody has a home, a family to return to. Barret has Marlene, Red XIII has Cosmo Canyon, Cid has Shera, Cait Sith has his parents, Yuffie has his father, Vincent has his coffin and Lurceria; heck, if Aerith is still alive, she still has her adoptive mother Elmyra. But Cloud and Tifa, they have no one else, except each other. ------ Phew, that's a long essay. Long story short, with the way things are presented IN THE OG, I THINK it makes more sense for Cloud and Tifa to be together (happily or unhappily or whatever, that's another story).

nice i loved the video

Handsome tbh

❤❤❤❤

This guy's a weird Tifa shipper. Can't believe I wasted 20 mins of my life listening to such mental and verbal gymnastics. Personally, I would rather ship Cloud is Scarlet since she's the hottest. But between Tifa and Aerith, the choice is clear. Even in the events of AC, Cloud is miserable with Tifa. If anything they have a more sibling relationship in the movie than anything else. And yet you people keep pushing your crazy character ships, lol.

Man, the more the ff7 remake is progressing (along with ToTP, ever crisis, and now even the rebirth trailers), your analysis is proving to be more and more right. The creators so far are showing they understand ff7 more than we know and are reinforcing the points you have made.

This is mazing ! This deserves so much more views!

Superb video, really enjoyed seeing the way that you drew clear distinctions between plot and narrative. Please also do one for FF7R!

Great video. I think FF7R gave a glimpse of what would it be if Aerith lives, will be just pure friendship with Tifa. They skyrocketed the relationship of these two, from the very moment the 3 of them are together in the party is just the two of them supporting each other, helping each other, smiling and looking each other, high fives and so on. When we get to play as Tifa in the shinra HQ with Aerith as our only companion, the first words of Tifa are of concern of Cloud, while Aerith try to ease her worried mind and ask if Tifa is ok. Remake made obvious that Aerith cares a lot about Tifa. The thing is that they have put Aerith in a mayor double dilema:"I'm feeling attracted by a man who reminds me of my dead ex bf(being this the initial reason of) but my new friend Tifa is in love with him(I don't think is too crazy to think that she knows whats going on in the hearts of Cloud and Tifa)" If Aerith don't die(and if she is the actual the main love interest) SE have: a guy who recovers his true self and his feelings for her childhood friend while there is feelings for another woman when he wanst 100% himself + a woman who has to overcome the death of her bf and solve this while is in love with the love interest of her dear friend. Redirect the happiness of Tifa in a way that makes us sense that all that thing of the promise (which they took the big job to recreated the most beautiful and romantic way in remake and also the job of bring a novel where adding specific details of that night)means nothing. Is just too much to solve and rearrange. SE is moving on from this triangle thing and I think setting up that her death will not only be a thing that will hurt deeply to Cloud but to Tifa too and it makes sense with "On the way to a smile-Case of Tifa" and AC

Come Back!

My god!... this video is still relavent. Come back! You have proof of clout.

I have seen this video finally thank you for explaining this.. more clear i was never good with words but Clerith seems like the love interest at first but if you look into the story.. Cloud 's love for Tifa is always there

Your video still holds up true for remake

lol

Great video have you done a video for the remake since it out to compare this video versus that one yet. I love reading your stuff on Tumblr to

Great video👍

Dutchie?! Is this you?!

Excellent video, I really enjoyed listening to this. I’ve seen your posts shared by Dipper