Відео

with bigeneration being a thing, what if Dhawan and Missy bigenerated from the same Master?

The whole Chibnall era is a mess and should be retconned in my opinion.

Love these two so much

A tribute to the two best friends

Wow. 😱 This is really a great video 🥰 I don’t understand why it has so few views and not a single comment even though it is so good.

Pls make this longer

The only evidence the master isn’t chronological is that her extremely overrated redemption is undone. Everything else points to O coming after Missy

The timeline I like is dhawan war simm del gado crispy movie missy

We have the same subcount (not gonna lie your content is better then mine)

Feel like this the only scary episode so far

Cool edit

nice edit!!! i loved this episode of doctor who i believe it brought some energy from the old doctor who and it had such an interesting story that kept you invested in the episode at all times truly a brilliant episode i hope we see more episodes like this one!

So how does he get out of The Toymaker’s gold tooth? Does he just let him go?

I think big finish said missy regenerated into the lumiat who in turn regenerated into spy master

Missy's ending in The Doctor Falls was a perfect final ending for The Master. I think The Master should have been left after that

Stuff we know, or think we know about the Master's timeline. We know that the War Master becomes the Saxxon Master. That was shown to us. MIssy says she comes after the Saxxon Master. The Dhwan Master destroys Gallifrey after it is saved by the 10th and 11th Doctors helping the War Doctor save it and put it into a pocket universe. If the Dhwan Master was before Missy, and Missy comes after Saxxon, then Dhwan must come before the War and Saxxon Masters. The War Master says he travelled to the End of the Universe, turned himself into a human baby, and wiped his memories (and stored them for later) to flee the Last Great Time War. If the Dhwan Master is before Missy, he is then also before the Saxxon and War Masters and thus had foreknowledge that he would destroy Gallifrey AFTER it is saved in the Last Great Time War, and so his actions as the War Doctor would have been intentional (even his defeat and then fleeing) so that he could destroy it after the fact in its pocket universe. It's getting really confusing now. Assuming all of that is true, did the Dhwan Master know where Jodi's Doctor fell in the timeline? If he did, then it implies that the Saxxon Master also knew all of his plans would ultimately fail, and in fact planned for them to fail, just so his early incarnation would have the chance to destroy Gallifrey post the Last Great Time War. If the Dhwan Master didn't know which regeneration he was dealing with, then he was gambling that he wouldn't be disrupting the timeline and causing everything to fall apart, which I doubt he would do. He likes Chaos, but not that much Chaos. So...I really don't think that Dhwan comes before Missy in the timeline. We don't really have a good explanation for why the Master regresses so much by the time we get to Dhwan's Master. Perhaps the Master simply has more self control and empathy (although not that much more) as a female. Or maybe that one incarnation (that just so happened to be female) was just a little less psychotic and had the potential to be reformed. We know that each regeneration is essentially a new personality, sometimes totally, which by itself could be enough to explain the huge regression back into psycho evil mode. Either way, I hope we do get an explanation eventually, but I wouldn't count on it. They don't tend to ever explain much when it comes to the Master. He or she just always pops back up with a vague explanation for how, if any is given at all. It does make the character easier to bring back, if we never know any of the details of how it happens, but at the same time it does feel...cheap. At least to me it does.

No offense but i think its been a missed opportunity to have Sacha's master be revealed as the incarnation literally before roger delgado's master imagine it he's dying in the doctors arms and the doctor reminds him of the autons the axons etc and the master is like "who the hell are the axon's and autons?" Before regenerating into delgado

I think he's after Missy - would explain how she could easily use the matrix and Cybermen technology to bring back the dead - she had the knowledge, technology etc. from absorbing the cyberium when she was the Spy Master.

I’ll save everyone the trouble, Jodie’s Master came after Missy. If you search up the question the producers confirm it and state that there’s a line from a script that wasn’t used. “I liked it when you were Missy, at least she wanted to be a better person.” Master: “She’s been in your care for too long Doctor, a mistake I don’t intend to repeat.”

I'd also like to point out that when we first meet Missy in Dark Water/Death in Heaven, we learn that she has taken a piece of the Matrix from Gallifrey with her; incidentally, Dhawan's master was also messing around with the Matrix, and even intentionally preserved it. What if that explains how Missy got her hands on the Matrix?

Bi regeneration

There is an audio story called "The Lumiat" (it is canon to the TV show) that before Missy died for good, she used a device called the Elysium field to create a new Master incarnation with her consciousnesses intact but, there was a side effect which made the new body (The Lumiat) have all the goodness and show disgust of her past incarnations. She (The Lumiat) hunted down a younger Missy and fowled some of her schemes. At one point the younger Missy grew tired of The Lumiat and killed her to the verge of regeneration . Missy hoped her next incarnation would not share the goodness of The Lumiat, hence O. This story was written before Spyfall in Moffet's era.

This is my personal continuity, going forward 🙌

Hmm, conundrum......

As far as I’m concerned, Doctor Who ran from An Unearthly Child to The Doctor Falls. Problem solved!

Save for your music being too loud relative to the clips of characters talking, this is a good video and a interesting theory.

He is before Missy, there is far to much evidence that points to it. He cant be after her not possible, tbh O is the worst Master ever

Who gives a f…. , the franchise is dead

The Doctor Falls is such a perfect ending to the Master that I choose to believe Simm regenerated into Dhawan and Missy came later - maybe MUCH later - down the line. It would allow the Master to keep being used in stories without undoing the wonderful ending the character got in that episode.

It’s been confirmed in extended media that there was a good master incarnation between Missy and the Spy Master, and because she helped turn Missy good, Missy was also the reason she reverted back into insanity as the Spy Master. But Missy is definitely the two incarnations before the Spy Master.

It's better if we just imagine that the show ended when 12 died

Along with many others I feel Missy should be the FINAL incarnation. Redemption story arc ❤

It will be my headcannon that missy is the final master incarnation and we’re just seeing his life out of order

Everyone seems to be implying that there is an overarching plan behind Dhawan and his place in the continuum... I think that a very naughty showrunner created Dhawan as the master to score points during the whole cultural clash that had been happening outside of the show and now 3 seasons later we're stuck with a mess. The same with the First female doctor, The first black doctor and now the first gay doctor... Within the space of 3 years? Let's not forget the thousand cameos with the Black Grandma Doctor. Nothing is wrong with these characters being introduced, But the writers, The actors and everything surrounding the productions are letting us all down by dismantling the old show to build a stage for their "New and improved" show that so far, Only the most zooming zoomers have tuned into and it's just so they can make a few edits for their TikTok. Timeless child anyone? Everyone is left with the pieces and you've got videos like this one trying to make sense of the mess. The Master has only been Harold Saxon and Missy - There fixed it.

Maybe saxon held on to the memory of missy in an attempt to become anyone but her while he regenerated thus making her a temporal anomaly 🤷‍♂️ shes from a timeline that no longer exists

Darwhan has to be before missy, right after Saxon. Nothing else makes sense of the character development.

I personally have the theory that they're the same incarnations in different timelines: Timeline 1: Saxon meets Missy, and in this version of events Missy doesn't stand with the Doctor in the end. Saxon eventually regenerates into Missy. Eventually this version of Missy chooses to stand with the Doctor like we see spawning a second timeline. Timeline 2: Since the Saxon Master sees Missy stand with the Doctor this changes the timeline, and instead causes Saxon to regenerate into the Spyfall Master.

If you include the expanded media in your canon then he is after. Missy specifically mentions not knowing who Spy Master is when she sees him in The Master Plan comic.

I am perfectly fine with the Spy Master coming after. Regeneration is an intentionally unfair and anarchic process and they narrative function is that it can intentionally wipe away character development. The Doctor has to "rediscover his humanity" basically every incarnation. For example, 12 being an edgy sociopath for an entire season makes character sense coming right off the heels of Trenzalore, which was the most triumphant moment in the Doctor's life and where his empathy was rewarded 10fold. That's the POINT of regeneration- it doesn't make sense and the resulting change is sad and unfair to the person who came before. Missy died in humiliating and cruel circumstances, with her first empathetic action being met by her literal previous self murdering her to prevent positive change. I think it makes perfect sense that the only thing that would carry through to the next life is bitterness and anger and reversion to what they know best. Regeneration is a total, permanent ego death. Personality does not carry through, only memories. It is a narrative blank slate for a reason.

Missy split into two Master, just like 14-15.

Just a theory here but the master could have bi-generated like the doctor did

It is arguably possible that The Master also Bi-generated at some point and that Dhawan's Master is an alternative to the Missy version.

I think it’s heavily implied that Dhwan is after Missy and all that important character development was just ignored by Chibnall. Moffat and now RTD have built upon and developed what their predecessors have already established. Chibnall chose to completely ignore the characters backstories and development for the sake of his own narrative. He basically did a Rian Johnson

I think Spy master is a parallel Master, born in the division universe, the doctor created by becoming the Timeless child after 15 is trapped to becoming so. This master would coincide with Fugitive, the doctor at the end of the timeless child Cycle, had her memories erased. Bel and Vendor’s child is the Parallel Doctor from the division universe, left at Ruby road by Fugitive to save 15 and prevent Fugitives future, after 13 ignored her warning about the loan cyber man, sent though Jack.

We've seen that some other Timelords can affect their regeneration (including the Master in Utopia who said he wants to be young) so my theory is that when the Master saw Missy, he chose to regenerate to someone else and Missy is a temporal anomally - a paradox that never happened. And since the timeline was out of sync, the Master doesn't even remeber it.

I think he's before Missy. It would all mean that the character development wouldn't be wasted

I don't think Missy saying that in _Dark Water_ at the start of this video could mean that when from the Spy Master's perspective he mortally wounded the Doctor so shouldn't have been expecting herself to be saved by an unconscious or dead enemy depending on what he thought would have happened.

I can never decide anymore. Because on the one hand Missy always felt like a much more mature version. He gets giddy over having an army, whereas in her first plan she doesn't even care about one. It would just be small thinking for her. On the other hand, I heard someone refer to him as the "identity crisis Master". Unfortunately I can't remember who that was at the moment or I would ascribe credit. But the idea that he is just an incarnation that especially doesn't know what he's after made me a little more comfortable with the idea of him coming after Missy. I know there's technically a comic in which he refers to Missy, but I also believe there's one in which she seems cognizant of him. In either case, one of them could have done something tricky to be aware of the future one, preemptively.

A nice compilation and I think both interpretations are valid. Dhawan's Master never once mentioned the Doctor's attempts at rehabilitation, did he? I feel like that's too important to have simply ignored. Specifically his reasons for rejecting it, going back to his old ways. In my mind, he's somewhere earlier in the timeline. Maybe right after Simm?

We already have confirmation that Dhawan came after from big finish, Missy regenerated using something called an Elysian field which burns all her energy or something idk how it works but she essentially uses it to remove all her bad personality traits and becomes the lumiat, it’s like the valeyard was with the doctor in concept, anyway eventually the lumiat died and regenerated into the dhawan master.