Відео

Glad to hear it. Good luck with your pump

Most internal fuel leaks on a B or C is due to the internal lines or a nozzle. Common for them to leak at either the bleed screw on the side of the nozzle or where the top part of the nozzle threads to the middle part. Get some fuel dye, pit it in the filter, use a black light with the engine running valve covers off and check the lines from both ends and pay attention to the nozzle retainer. You may see fuel coming up around the line at the nozzle. It can be an injection pump problem but if it hasn't been into recently its not likely

Fuel transfer pump, only seen one and it was a classic part. Fuel pump usually when someone tried to fix a bushing leak and didn't do it right. Most of the time it is a nozzle. With the valve covers off, the nozzle is in a chamber. Should have two holes on the cap. Be careful, put your finger on one side. The other side put some air psi on the open hole. Be careful you don't want a face full of oil. As you check each one, the good holes will push oil out, dark. The leaking nozzle will be clear because it is full of fuel. If it is the nozzle, could be seal on the side. You can replace it. If it is the seal on top, you have to replace the nozzle. Can be a fuel line, the outside connection has a drain hole in the fuel line adapter. The inside line has an oring to try and force a leak to the outside. The nozzle connection you already check it.

So I got the test results in yesterday from the oil sample. My engine oil does indeed have fuel contamination. I will start with the fuel transfer pump, I'm hoping that's what is causing this issue

@@johngoldsmith6629 how did you determine that the fuel transfer pump is leaking? When you removed it did you see obvious fuel coming from the transfer pump?

@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 before posting this comment, I did remove the valve cover and run the engine while visually inspecting the fuel lines. I didn't see any obvious signs of a fuel leak, I will purchase some fuel dye. Do you have any experience with fuel dye and which would be best?

If you mean the pin in the lifter, no you can't. But that pin is only a guide to get the teeth on the plunger to align with the rack properly. Sometimes when you disassemble a pump with stuck plungers and barrels those little pins get damaged. I just carefully grind them off and check my rack during assembly.

If you mean the alignment dowel in the housing about an inch down, I do believe you can change that through the fuel cover. Never have done it but I'm pretty sure they are in the parts book

What is your full engine serial number?

@@johngoldsmith6629 4mg29870 is what I was told. Everything seams to match. That’s what was put in it from factory and I was told it was the same engine. Only thing is I can’t find a plate on the engine itself, so i dont know for sure.

@@micahfreeberg574 The serial number is stamped in the block, it is on the passenger side, number five cylinder. About four to five inches or so below the exhaust. Shows to be in a PB, you can call PB and give them the vin. They can tell you what engine the truck was born with. Arrangement No: 9Y-2449 Mfg Model: 3406B Mktg Model Year: 1988 Prod Family: ZI 3406/C15 Engines Sims Prod Family: 62 Truck Engines Source Facility: 40 Engine Develop And Mfg 7-18L Principle Work: D10 Trucks - On-Highway Build Date: 16Jun1988 Factory Ship Date: Not Applicable Dealer/Invoiced Ship Date: 27Jun1988 Sales Date: 27Jun1988 Delivery Date: 19Jul1988 Selling Dlr: D99L Owner Cls: E 317 BRAKE KW (425 BHP) AT 2100 RPM. CARB-CERTIFIED, PETERBILT Only repair showing at Cat was the governor recall. This engine has a very bad timing advance. Numerous recalls and updates. The carrier likes to slip, so the timing advance will turn slower if it doesn't have the updated carrier. With the cover off the advance see if the flyweights will turn, I use a screw driver and push on the side of the weight. Don't get wild, don't want to break anything. If they do you need to rebuild your VTU, also other updates on the snap ring, races, small lock nut. The bushings that hold each injection pump down causes the pump not to seat in the bore. Cat has updated the bushing. If you replace the bushings, you have to center the rack and pull the pump out. Be clean, clean and clean. If your not you will get dirt, etc in the sealing area and put fuel in the oil. The governor tach drive seal likes to leak oil. Video shows on governor guide depth, when you replace the seal. Have to be careful, with the outer housing off. A flyweight can drop out and when you start the engine. The flyweight will come out the side of the inner housing. I use the flyweight race off a 8PN, has a larger OD. Also the flyweight carrier has been update with stops to prevent this, if something fails. Fuel injection lines, has to have clamps and brackets to secure the lines. I like to use the set up on an 8PN 3406 C. However I do mine a little different then the book. Adept Ape has two videos on this engine, one on the engine, other one is pulling a nozzle out, watch them. Fuel Ratio Control (FRC), diaphragm likes to blow sometimes. The housing gets a sharp edge and will cut it. I put a beveled edge on it (part that it rest on). Some people just put a plate on the back. Have to be careful, as black smoke will roll out the exhaust. Jacobs Brake, should have a three point stand. If I recall you can buy some more parts and make it a little stronger. Head bolts will have to come out. So you have to pull a valve cover and see on the exhaust side if you have one stand or two.

Early 3406 B's depends on HP, some had up to a 24 degree fuel system camshaft. 3406 C 8PN's are a unique design. 4MG's, 5KJ's and 3ZJ's Again fuel system timing, VTU, dual helix, single helix, different check valves. Will it bolt up, yes. Will VTU's interchange? Depends on what you have. Will it run? yes, Will it run right? Who knows.

8N6680, 2D6392 seal, just put a plate on it.

Start with the shutdown solenoid if it has one. Remove it and see if will stay running. Sometimes those solenoids click but don't pull in all the way. You will have to manually kill the engine with small shaft above throttle shaft if solenoid is removed. Next try to remove the air fuel control, it doesn't make sense but I have seen one engine that it was adjusted in all the way and the truck would act like it was running out of fuel. Check fuel pressure when it's running and verify it stays around 35 to 45 psi

If you have good fuel pressure and solenoid is not stopping you, then there is probably a problem in the governor either with the flyweights or throttle servo

Glad it helped

No, I don't work for caterpillar

Cat offers REMAN, but they are still new parts.

Disa plungers and barrels. Have had great luck with them

Setting the rack, (FLS/FTS) back to factory setting. Requires the tooling from Cat. Also if you do not have the data plate you will have to call Cat with the engine serial number and they will have to access TMI. To set the Air Fuel Ratio setting, you still need the same tool group. You have the lever setting and when that is done. Next step is to setting the dynamic setting with the engine running. So you leave the dial indicator on the pump, start the engine. Cock the AFRC valve, rev the engine up wide open, real fast and read you dial indicator. It will not stay at that spot very long. Or you can purchase a electronic indicator along with the tooling to set the rack. Then as before on revving it up, you press the max function on the electronic indicator and see what it reads. Should not be to much over 5K, I would think for the tool group. Or you can do what I like to do. Remove the back cover off the FRC. Start the engine and push in on the valve to cock it. Rev the engine up to full throttle real fast and watch your smoke. Make an adjustment until your happy with acceleration vs black smoke. To set the set point or bumping the governor, you need the set point indicator along with the multitach tool group. Hook it all up and hit a hill and see what RPM set point is at full throttle. Set point is 20 RPM above full load speed, plus minus 10 RPM's. Then if you want to verify your timing is working properly, you can purchase the timing indicator group. Again you will need spec from Cat. All together I think around 10k should cover the price of the special tooling. And a chassis dyno helps getting the set point setting correct. Plus if you hook up the fuel metering device, you can see how many GPH your burning and adjust the rack to compensate for any wear. On a worn pump your allowed .5 MM above spec. Remember HP equal Gallons Per Hour times Fuel Density divided by Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. Hope this helps.

Couple types of timing advance. The older ones 7FB are the same. 4MG03600 and up to 8PN are basically the same, but they are slightly different. Number of bolts, spool valve, races and such.

Hells canyon diesel. Give me a call

Advancing the timing is possible. It will increase cylinder psi, lower boost and make faster response. The outer cover on the VTU has a big screw and little screw. DO NOT MESS WITH THEM. That is your start and stop of advance. You can only set them with a timing indicator group. First check your pin timing, if the flywheel goes in first your retarded. If they drop about the same time your dead on. If the pump goes in first your advanced. If your retarded you need to re-time your pump. Turn engine until the fuel system pin drops in. Remove the VTU cover and loosen the bolts. Put a seal pick in the hole and turn the engine backwards. When it falls in the hole turn the engine slightly until the engine locks up. Replace the bolts, one at a time. (Have seen old ones break). Now torque the bolts (41 FT LBS) remove the pick and pin. Turn the engine backwards thirty degrees or more and then turn engine back forwards. The pin and bolt should drop in about the same time. If want to advance it, before you torque the bolts. Remove the pick and slightly bump the engine backwards a little more. Again torque bolts and do as above. The pump should drop first, then take your seal pick and feel for the hole and see how far you are advanced. I like mine around half a bolt hole. So on the drivers side the hole will be towards the top of the flywheel housing and solid towards the bottom side of the hole. If your installing the VTU, you have basically two types. Old 7FB style and 4MG03600 and up. Get a long 3/8 bolt and cut the head off. It is your guide to align the VTU. Install guide bolt and slide VTU on over the guide bolt and get a few bolts snug, finger tight. If you have the 4MG03600 and up, 5KJ, 3ZJ, 8PN. You need to push the carrier in and seat it. It will push out installing it and you will be severely retarded, if you don't seat it. Get a large screw driver and get between outer cover and flyweight and push it back towards the engine. You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have you base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if your static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees (Example), (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees, (Example). If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is at 1355 RPM's, (Example). I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the stop of advance. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and stop of advance. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.

The metal seal I describe in the video under the plunger and barrel assembly is the seal. It is a machined washer and the bottom of the barrel is machined. When you torque down the bonnet nut, which has the pink oring under it, it smashes the barrel into the machines washer making a liquid tight seal to keep fuel out of the camshaft housing. If you have fuel in the oil on a 3406 it's most likely an under valve cover injection line or the nozzle, "injector" , that is leaking fuel into the engine. You can run the engine with the valve covers off to locate the leak. Have done it many times

Thanks for replying back to me I changed the pink o rings on the plungers. That's when I started to see the diesel in the oil. When I took one of the plunger's out I can see diesel on the bottom like by the rack.

One more thing when I torque down the bonnets it's 190 ft pounds right?

If you removed the plunger and barrel it will relax the seal on the bottom and all the fuel in the galley under the large side plate will drain into the pump housing. If the fuel level continues to climb after you run it a while you may have gotten some debris from the nut area down under the steel seal. It is extremely important that all those parts are spotless during assembly

The metal spacer under the pump has two functions. As stated it is a seal. ANYTIME you R and I the pump, you have to center the rack and remove the pump. Most of the fuel in the oil failures are nozzles. However the first question I ask, has somebody fixed a fuel leak on the pump. If they said yes, I ask them which one, as if you don't R and I the pump and just tried slipping a new seal under the bushing you have messed up. The second function of the spacer it sets injection timing. When Cat came out with compact fuel systems and went away from forged body, the timing needed to be set. So you set your pump up and put a degree wheel on TDC 1. Look up what pump you have and the spec will tell you which way to turn the wheel and what degree to stop at. Then you take a two inch block and set in that hole with the existing spacer. Measure down and get your depth reading. If within spec, your OK. If not you look in the parts book on which spacer you need to get within spec. Spacers come in range of 0.004 between each part number. That is why on earlier engines you do not mix the spacers up. If you do, the pump has to come off and do this. You can measure each spacer and replace them once you know the thickness and put it back in the same hole. When Cat released the new scroll fuel system (NSFS), 3406B and up. They was able to get production tolerances within spec. Thus it was no longer needed to degree the fuel camshaft to set injection timing. As production and improvements was made you have two thickness spacers on NSFS. You cannot mix them up. If you do, you will destroy your fuel system. One problem on this NSFS is the bushing not seating the pump in the bore. So Cat has a new bushing and bonnet. Anytime I R and I a pump, I like to lap the barrel, update the bushing and bonnet. However I have to do as the customer wishes. Replacing the pumps is a better choice, but now your talking a lot of money. Plus I do not like to put one new pump in a hole and have five old pumps on a high mileage engine. If you reuse the bushing, it is best to put it back in the same hole as the threads have mated to each other. The spacer or pump does not matter.

I have never done the 3208 pumps. Few and far between where I'm located

3208 fuel pumps are sleeve metering. You have to set the cross bar with a special tool. Once that is set, you have to install a dummy pump and set the lever setting. Once that is done, you have to put it on a test bench to see if it will pump out. Also the front cam bearing likes to spin or the camshaft gets a groove from the fuel transfer pump seal. The governor housing has to be reamed and install a check valve to prevent air from entering around the throttle shaft seal. Now you can take it apart and reseal it. However if it has a thrust bearing in the governor and you let it fall out you will destroy your pump. NEVER try to adjust the lever setting or the crossbar with out the special tooling. To get the fuel transfer pump off, you have to pull the sleeve off. It is a one time use. Once it is off that is when the thrust washer can fall out. The thrust washer is located in the rear of the pump. So I made a special tool to keep force on the fuel camshaft forward to prevent the fuel camshaft from moving backwards. If your front bearing has spun, your pump has to be replaced. If your camshaft is worn from the transfer pump seal it has to be replaced. Once you get the one time use sleeve on, you measure end play on the fuel camshaft. If your in spec, OK. If not your taking it all part this time and see what you have broken behind the pump.

Soy bastante prudente en ese aspecto, no las manipuló sin documentación o con asesoramiento de maestros como vosotros. Se me dio el caso en un ripper. Son muy raras aquí en europa. Un saludo y gracias por las aclaraciones.

@@carlosmontero1033 English

Thank you very much

You should be able to Crack lines loose at the pump one at a time to see if the miss gets worse or stays the same. The one you Crack and it stays the same is the one that is probably out of time. If you install pumps injection pump on the truck you can still look through the front window and check rack travel after each install. But you should start by checking the travel before you mess with the pump. Also remove the shutdown solenoid when your changing the pumps. It frees up the rack

@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 A few times I have had a problem getting the pump back in time. What I have learned is take the pump apart and turn the darn spring over. For some reason the coils will pull it off center enough and prevent the pump from going back in and timed correctly.

Part number to rebuild/reseal the pump? Loaded question. As pumps changed, part numbers have changed. Some are been replaced with better part numbers. Some you have to stick with what pump is in front of you. When you go to Cat and look up what pump you have SIS has not been updated (most of the time) to the better part number seal. If you order a fuel system kit, it has lots of parts in it that you may not need. However the kits are usually updated with the better seals. So if you try and look that new part number up for you serial number it won't be in the book. Sometimes you have to look the part up in a truck engine news, special instructions, or a newer serial number. The parts guy at Cat will not know how to do this. As with the seal under the bushing for example, that part number has been changed four times that I know of. So each of these numbers are still in Cat's system because it is just a standard o-ring most of the time. Also some hardware changes in the governor that I like to do. Again, not in the book.