Відео

@@borismuca9643 Why? Depends on the context of the event. I'll have to look that up. Potentially catastrophic? Not if it's a miracle which by it's nature is an overriding of natural law. Yes it's a good question why this wasn't recorded by others around the world. Was it a fleeting event? Was it not seen by many. How much time do you spend staring at the moon? But the final point is that it doesn't matter. It's not an event that's needed to prove Islam. Interesting yes, but not essential.

@@think-islam-channel Ah yes, God not only split the moon in two, but he also made it to not have any impact on earth, unmaking the laws of physics that he himself created, he also made it so that only a couple of travelers could see it, as to not throw the world into chaos. God did this. The one who created everything, billions of years are like a second for him yet he thought he was crucial to show a miracle to those three farmers. Don't you realize that you are mocking him with this insanely stupid make up stories. This is baffling.

@@Tucker358 thanks for the feedback. In which way was it rough to watch?

@@FluffyBunnyJ Some comments are intelligent and warrant a logical response. Some are trash and need ignoring or, rarely, even deleting. And some are a mixture of the two and you sit there wondering whether to respond to the intelligent sounding bits or not; or whether to ignore them as the poster is probably not capable of a civil rational discussion.

@@think-islam-channel the fact that you make excuses instead of responding says it all. Attacking the individual instead of the arguments is just another fallacious tactic. I have had great conversations and bad ones. Maybe you should try to talk about certain points or engage before you decide someone can’t have a conversation. You put a video up for all to see and comment. If you don’t like the responses maybe delete the video instead of recommending the deletion of the comments. If you ask for evidence of a scientific theory, no one starts by saying well we know it wasn’t god therefore science. They would walk you through the evidence, and show how we understand the facts. If you would like to talk about one of your evidences, I would be happy to. If you want to ignore me that’s fine as well.

@FluffyBunnyJ your post wasn't well thought out but just a selection of weak arguments. Which is why I responded as I did. I've had some good points from atheists and I have engaged with them. Check out the comments section. It's time consuming so I don't waste time on comments that don't seem to have much hope for a decent exchange. If you have a particular clear argument to make then that's fine. But responding to multiple vague claims is often a waste of time.

@@think-islam-channel sure, since your video mentions fine tuning as what Hitchens said was the strongest argument I will start there. If you would prefer a different argument I have no issues discussing any of them. Fine tuning argument is flawed in many ways. First it assumes we are the goal of the universe. This is an odd conclusion since we can only exist in a tiny speck of it. Light can travel around the earth 7 times in a second, it takes billions of years for light to travel around the observable universe. In this vast universe 99.99% of it we cannot survive in. Even on our planet most is naturally inhospitable to us. It’s our ability to change this planet to suit our needs that makes our survival seem “easy”. For instance, without farming we could not grow past small tribes in the past. Let’s not forget that 99% of life on this planet is now extinct. So even where life can exist it struggles to say the least. Secondly to prove this universe is special and fine tuned we would need to observe other universes or show that universes could exist with other properties. With a sample size of one this is just not possible. The laws of nature are descriptive. Natural laws are our attempt to describe how our reality acts, reacts, and interacts. Be it physics, chemistry or biology. If you want to claim they were created by a higher being you would first need to demonstrate that being exists, can create these constants and then, that it did. Lastly if the constants of the universe were different then we may not exist but life in a different way might. There is an analogy that answers this well. It’s called the puddle analogy, in which the puddle thinks its surroundings were made for him because he fits well into it. Not realizing the hole was there and he just filled the hole. It’s worth looking up if you are interested, it’s a bit lengthy to do it justice here.

@@FluffyBunnyJ thanks I hope to reply shortly

@@petmur2451 And your logical argument is.....?

@@nicolasandre9886 Hi. That's a good question. How can God exist if He is not within our concept of time? Analogy: Think of a video game created by a games creator. The games creator lives in our universe: the 4D spacetime. Now think of a fantasy Sci fi video game. It can exist in a totally different concept of time. The character may be able to jump through time into the future. Time could move fast or slow. Years could pass between the start of the game and the end. The time stops at the end of the game and restarts at the beginning every time the game is opened. The players in the game could say 'Yes I know there could be someone that created us on this screen, but the thing that holds me back is that I can't understand how they could exist if they don't exist in our concept of time'. So.. God does exist in some reality with its own reality of time but this is not the time of our 4D universe. A game character is just pixels on a screen. Those pixels cannot have any concept of what it is like to be a 3d human. It's impossible for them to think of something which is not made of pixels existing on a screen. In the same way it is impossible for us to 'picture' God and His dimension. The game character could deduce a creator by some logical arguments. We deduce God by logical arguments. Not being able to 'picture' God doesn't change that proof. We have relative time in this universe anyway. So extending that concept it's not inconceivable to understand that God lives in an alternative concept of time.

@@think-islam-channel video game characters are not conscious beings, and any imitation of consciousness they display is being done by the the computer or console the game is being run, all of which operate in our universe, not in any sort of alternative version of it. One can assume the existence of an alternative reality where a god could exist, but if we can't interact with said alternative reality, or cannot explain how a god from this reality would interact with our own, it's simply pure conjecture and this hypothesis does not bring anything useful in my opinion. In other words, if people cannot communicate with god and receive consistent answers, assuming this god exists, then the idea of a god is pretty much useless, except for charismatic people who can use such a concept to manipulate other people in their own interest.

@@nicolasandre9886 It's an analogy. The difference in consciousness and cognition between the games creator and those game characters who do think and act, is as the difference between God and us with our limited IQs and limited physical attributes. Do you think that is logically possible? If not, why not? The game is indeed in a my reality even though it exists in the 4d universe. Those characters are just the 2D changing states of pixels on a screen rather than 3d entities. Their concept of time is totally different to ours. The time within the game is the same whichever day month or year the game is switched on. The time in the game is totally independent of our 4d time. 'If we cant interact with God, or cannot explain how a God would interact with our own reality, it's conjecture and doesn't bring anything useful' That's not a valid argument. Again use the analogy: A games character cannot interact with us. They cannot explain how a human would interact with them. They would then illogically conclude that the games creator doesn't exist and cannot interact with them. We cannot interact with God: that's debatable and I think it's a difficult one to argue so I'll concede that it's difficult to prove that we can interact with God Some will point to prayer and their experiences with God but these are subjective so I'm going to just pass on this point. There is an indirect point I will make and that is that God has communicated with us via the Quran and that the Quran is easy to prove logically as a divine supernatural phenomenon. We can detail the argument on that if you want. 'we cannot explain how God illogically with our reality' You don't need to explain something if it's a logical necessity. God is a logical necessity. There are numerous evidences pointing to an intelligent creator to the universe. Ignoring that is just deferring your thinking to popular atheists with their poor arguments. Humans are just followers and atheistic arguments are just the most popular memes at present,just as Christianity used to be in the past Most atheistic arguments are excuses to explain away things. And how can God magically disappear just because we can't meet your criteria? That's an illogical argument. The Fallacy of Incredulity 'The idea of a God is useless' High risk strategy. Here's the position simplified. God exists We were created and put in this universe to develop a relationship with that God freely Those who succeed get an eternity of bliss and whatever their souls desire in Heaven Those that consciously respect God despite being informed about Him,lose all that and get the opposite fate. Question: what is so superlative about your cognitive skills, IQ and powers of judgment that makes you so confident in your conclusions?

@@nicolasandre9886 Proof of the Qur'an The Quran is a divine book that is impossible for humans to have produced. It has many easily verifiable superlative features. The sum probability of having these features in one phenomenon leads to an extremely small probability. There are many features. These have to be verifiable superlative and unusual features. 1. The greatest work of literature in a language. If anyone wants to contest this claim I'll simplify this for the sake of argument and say it is at least one of the greatest works in the Arabic language. 2. Memorisable from front to back. Christians try hard but can't do it. Even though they make it easier for themselves but ignoring what they think is the original Bible, and use the English translation instead (look up Bible Bee) 3. Mathematical symmetries. There are tonnes of these eg the Qur'an checksum miracle the fact that words like day appear 365 times, midmost is a word in the middle verse of chapter 2, the symmetries of 19, and hundreds of other examples I can detail. 4. Preservation. Massive topic. The Quran, in terms of the original skeletal text (without vowel points as it was originally) is perfectly preserved. The preservation method is itself spectacular. The Quran was preserved primarily by memorisation. The prophet had the verses recited to him by the angel Gabriel and he memorised those verses. He would then got to his companions and scribes and get them to make a written record and get them to memorise those verses. He would also specify where those verses would go in the Quran. The scribes would write on bones, stones and palm branches. This proves that normal writing materials were rare. Those that memorised it would pass out on to others. This process continues today. The Quran is memorised perfectly by millions. It's an amazing phenomenon. 5. One hit wonder. No earlier works? A literary masterpiece from the get go? How? In a desert with no access to paper! 5. The amazing jigsaw. This is very interesting. The Quran was not revealed in a linear manner from start to finish. It was totally random with chapters and parts of chapters revealed at different times and places over 23 years. Verses would often be revealed referring to many things that happened at that time. Yet it all for together perfectly at the end. How do you create something over 23 years with random parts relating to events in those 23 years then these all fitting together perfectly at the end? One additional point here: Imagine if he died before completing it? That would have destroyed the whole reliability of it. He died on the year it was completed. Coincidence? 6. Specific prophecies There are a few prophecies eg one about a specific war with the Romans. It talks about the Romans being defeated but predicts they will be victorious in 3-9 years (there is a specific word for that period of time). The verse also mentions where the defeat would take place : it says in the LOWEST part of the earth. This happened as predicted in the RED SEA which with modern knowledge, we now know to be the LOWEST POINT ON EARTH ! That's an amazing miraculous fact. 7. Scientific references to things impossible for a random person in the 7th century desert to know: The Quran makes allusions to: big bang, expanding universe, mountains have roots, non mixing of waters with different salinity, embryological stages etc. Those statements do not make sense in the context of 7th century Arabia which was very undeveloped as a civilisation. Not by someone who wasn't educated. We have lots of his sayings recorded which prove he was not educated. It was a harsh desert life. This was not a developed civilisation. 8. a masterpiece by someone who was illiterate. How do you create a masterpiece in a jigsaw pattern at a time with no paper, or computers? How do you track it all? How do you track all those mathematical symmetries? Especially when you are illiterate. 9. Inimitability The Quran makes the challenge for people to bring something like it. If that challenge was met, we would have known that by now. The other work would have been world famous and championed by Christians and atheists everywhere. It would have been known by every critic of Islam and every online keyboard warrior . It would be used in debates against Muslims as it would be the biggest argument against Islam and one that would cause huge numbers of people to leave Islam. Why would I or others want to follow a restrictive religion if it was demonstrably false? 1400 years. Still no contender. The best we have are silly offerings which just copy the quran but change key words in the sentence. Eg if you challenge me to write something equivalent to Shakespeare and I write 'To read or not to read, that is the conundrum'. Does that make me as skilled and original as Shakespeare? It's just a cheap copy of a clever line without any originality. Those who try to meet the challenge being silliness like that. The Quran invented a new style of literature. There was poetry and prose before that. It invented a new powerful mix of the two. It used words in multiple new ways and invented new extension of words that were ground breaking yet perfectly understandable. Arabs were masters of poetry at the time. It's the only thing they had. Imagine living a harsh existence as a nomad through the desert. What hobbies or art could you possibly develop: poetry was the most natural. Competitions were held annually. Great poets were highly regarded. At the age of 40 the prophet brings something that totally surpasses everything that came before. 10. Beautiful recitation It's a sound that moves people. Look at the millions of views various recitation videos get on UA-cam. And this recitation is inherent to the Quran and wasn't invented later. 11. Maintaining consistency Artists evolve over time. Their style changes and matures. The Quran doesn't show that. The first chapter revealed was chapter 96. Many surahs are long and different parts revealed in different times. Yet it all fits together. You don't see an early style and later style in terms of literary skill. Summary: the cumulative probability. There are many more features. So we have to consider that some random human, who couldn't read or write, brought a book that blew away the excellent poetry of the time (that was the one of the few things the Bedouin Arabs were skilled at) and it just happened to have this multitude of amazing features? All the while this was produced in a stage of life where he had a tumultuous 23 years which would not have been conducive to concentrating on such are masterpiece: wars, exile into the desert with starvation, personally taking part in multiple battles, multiple marriages, setting up an entirely new city and state etc. Which other artist produced 1 masterpiece over a long period like that whilst going through tumultuous changes. Each of those factors above are low probability phenomena. The cumulative probability of all of those existing in one book is something like 1 in 10^60 as a very rough probability. The proof for the quran is based on verifiable facts anyone can check for themselves.

@@nicolasandre9886 PS 'game characters are not consistent beings' Can you prove that logically?

@@karndesintox9612 Thanks for your intelligent and measured post. Respect to you for conceding the logical possibility of some Creator to the universe. And you are right proving a particular God from that position is not trivial. Merely asserting a God with weak arguments is not convincing to any intelligent person. If God is perfect, is the Quran perfect? Stunning question. I've never seen it asked so clearly and from that perspective before. Questions like these are difficult to answer adequately because they require extensive unpacking and thought. I'll just make the comments that come to mind but please bear in mind this is not the complete answer I would prefer to give which would take a lot of writing. 1. What do we mean by 'perfect'. What is the measurement we use? Who decides the criteria? Perfect 'for what'? Is a Ferrari perfect? Only 2 seats? What is the intention? A Ferrari is perfect for some but useless for a family. 2. It should be precise on every matter? It depends on the purpose. The Qur'an is therefore guidance but God also doesn't want us to lose our free will. Let's assume the Quran contained every important equation in physics that we've ever discovered and those yet to be discovered. Imagine if it revealed secrets that were only discovered by the slow progress of science. Firstly that makes this world rather boring. Rather than science we would go to it and just put those equations into practice. Secondly, we would be forced to concede it was from God/a higher power. There would be no other possibility. We'd lose our free will to believe in God willingly. And that could be one of the reasons we are here. 3. The Quran is deliberately not clear in places. The most important verse for any cryptic is the following: It is He who sent down upon thee the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous. As for those in whose hearts is swerving, they follow the ambiguous part, desiring dissension, and desiring its interpretation; and none knows its interpretation, save only God. And those firmly rooted in knowledge say, 'We believe in it; all is from our Lord'; yet none remembers, but men possessed of minds. Quran 3: 7 4. The Quran didn't explicitly talk about the shape of the earth. Which verse do you mean? 5. Not complete enough? Who decides what to include? There is an infinite amount of information in the world and hundred of topics. Which do we include? A full encyclopedia? Who would read it? 6. Imperfect to grasp God's nature? We are 4d entities living in a 4d universe with minds that have limited IQs and limited powers of judgment. There are many things out minds cannot do. Can you accurately picture the 4th spatial dimension? The 5th? How then can we hope to have a true concept of an entity beyond our reality? God is well beyond anything we can visualise or imagine. No book canmake us do the impossible.

@@think-islam-channel Thanks for your answer. I will try to adress every point but keep in mind I'm not done thinking about such complex topics, so I might of course be wrong. 1) Fair question here. I myself am not sure whether reaching "perfection" is logically possible, which is also a problem I have with the christian or islam definition of God. I guess it is fair to consider that a "perfect" book can only contain properties within its nature of book, therefore, it would be a book that does not lack any knowledge. Nonetheless, as you very interestingly point it ouf in 5), it would make sens for this book to be accessible. Rather than a perfect book, I think it would be more relevant to consider that the Quran should be the best possible book for humanity, which, in my opinion, would be an universally accessible book that contain every knowledge necessary to maximise good on earth. Under this narrowed definition, I still think that the Quran fails. 2) I disagree with the implication of all your points here. It seems to me that free will is on a spectrum and will certainly be higher with more knowledge, I think that the lack of knowledge, in contrary, leads to less free will. As for the belief in God, if we assume that it would make us believe in him (which is not that certain, as a reminder, there are still people who think that the moon doesn't exist), then it would be the same thing as believing in everything on earth that we can't deny. I do not have free will to believe that law exist, but I still can choose to abide by the law or not. Believing is God doesn't only mean to believe he exists, it's a quick way to refer to "faith", I could be a theist, but not a religious person. Regarding boredom, I guess it could be an issue but I think that men look for new knowledge by necessity, for the most part. Acquiring knowledge sure is also entertaining, but it is not the only way not to get bored. 3) That is a problem in my opinion. It is hard for the Quran to claim scientific miracles when most of these are very inaccurately described (not wrong, but not enough details to assert that it is some kind of "predictions"). I can think of many books with many pages that can be interpreted as forecasting the future, or as describing scientific knowledge that later arrived, but that does not make them divine. 4) Sura 79 verse 30 has been commonly interpreted as describing an "egg-shaped" earth, which was claimed to accurately describe the round earth with flat poles (it is generally a verse that is quoted to disprove the idea that the Quran describe earth as flat, and I also agree that it doesn't, even though it is not so clear). I don't know if you'd agree with this translation, but it would be inaccurate. Sure, you could come back to 3) and say that it is purposedly unclear, but there is a difference between unclear and inaccurate. I don't see a good enough reason for God to describe earth as an "egg" rather than a "sphere" for instance, which would be much more representative of the actual shape. 5) As stated in the beginning of my comment, I agree it would make sens for a perfect God to make a book that people would read. It would be a good reason for the apparent simplicity of the Quran, but then it would make even harder to justify the inequal repartition of islam in the world. A perfect and maximally good God wouldn't only design a book to be read, but to be read by the maximum amont of people as possible. The language, time and geographic bareers make the Quran inaccessible for most human beings, independantly of their will and efforts, not to mention that it was only revealed quite recently in the history of mankind. And again, I guess it indeed couldn't contain every knowledge, but it would be possible that it contains every knowledge necessary for mankind to achieve the maximum good on earth. It is odd to think that the Quran could be updated in a better version, if you think about it, you could copy paste it and add new verified knowledge and it would be a better book than the original in the sens that it wouldn't lack anything that the original has, and would contain more truths. 6) I think I poorly phrased this part but, broadly speaking, I agree with you here. I guess I was trying to say that the Quran could have been an undeniable proof for God existence, and it isn't. As discussed in point 2) you think that that kind of proof wouldn't be a good thing, which I disagree with. In my view, a maximally good God would have good reasons to reveal himself to mankind.

@@karndesintox9612 thanks I hope to reply shortly

@@karndesintox9612 Karndesintox I appreciate the reply and humility. Thank you. 1. Can you then give a detailed exhaustive description of what a perfect book would be like. Good list all it's important features and content. 2. I disagree as in by previous detailed reply. So we agree to disagree here 3. Actually he Quran doesn't claim scientific miracles. People claim that. Yes that's is much related to science in the Quran but many of these verses have an element of ambiguity which gives.a get out clause for the atheist Your salvation is your choice. 4. So you say the quran is too v vague in places then you want to judge it as totally literal when it suits you. That's total bias.. The earth is not a sphere actually and describing it as a word which shows a deviation from a perfect sphere is excellent imo Quote: regularly shaped ellipsoid, which is similar to a slightly squashed sphere. It appears round from space, but is actually more like a basketball that has been squashed from top to bottom and bulged out from side to side 5. I disagree. Islam and the Quran spread to half the world within decades. No book travelled that far. The Quran is accessible in every language and there are millions of videos giving lectures and beautiful recitations of it. It's just simple laziness, prejudice and ignorance that stops people from reading/listening to it. The maximum good on earth. Here you are putting forward your philosophy as true. This contradicts the message on the quran that we are here for a tiny sliver of time and the next life is far more important. How would you prove you are correct? So give me something to add into the glorious masterpiece called the Quran. And what skill do you have as a literary critic for you to make these judgments Your prose and the depths of your arguments seem pretty average if you don't mind me being honest. 6. How do you weekday motives God had for creating us. Do you seem your intelligence capable of critiquing God ? Do you have omniscience, an infinte IQ and perfect judgment whereby your opinions are able to discern such truths?

Nonsense.

@@sciencedaemon Explain

Humans wrote the Quran and published it.

@JamesRichardWiley that doesn't fit the evidence. Proof of the Qur'an The Quran is a divine book that is impossible for humans to have produced. It has many easily verifiable superlative features. The sum probability of having these features in one phenomenon leads to an extremely small probability. There are many features. These have to be verifiable superlative and unusual features. 1. The greatest work of literature in a language. If anyone wants to contest this claim I'll simplify this for the sake of argument and say it is at least one of the greatest works in the Arabic language. 2. Memorisable from front to back. Christians try hard but can't do it. Even though they make it easier for themselves but ignoring what they think is the original Bible, and use the English translation instead (look up Bible Bee) 3. Mathematical symmetries. There are tonnes of these eg the Qur'an checksum miracle the fact that words like day appear 365 times, midmost is a word in the middle verse of chapter 2, the symmetries of 19, and hundreds of other examples I can detail. 4. Preservation. Massive topic. The Quran, in terms of the original skeletal text (without vowel points as it was originally) is perfectly preserved. The preservation method is itself spectacular. The Quran was preserved primarily by memorisation. The prophet had the verses recited to him by the angel Gabriel and he memorised those verses. He would then got to his companions and scribes and get them to make a written record and get them to memorise those verses. He would also specify where those verses would go in the Quran. The scribes would write on bones, stones and palm branches. This proves that normal writing materials were rare. Those that memorised it would pass out on to others. This process continues today. The Quran is memorised perfectly by millions. It's an amazing phenomenon. 5. One hit wonder. No earlier works? A literary masterpiece from the get go? How? In a desert with no access to paper! 5. The amazing jigsaw. This is very interesting. The Quran was not revealed in a linear manner from start to finish. It was totally random with chapters and parts of chapters revealed at different times and places over 23 years. Verses would often be revealed referring to many things that happened at that time. Yet it all for together perfectly at the end. How do you create something over 23 years with random parts relating to events in those 23 years then these all fitting together perfectly at the end? One additional point here: Imagine if he died before completing it? That would have destroyed the whole reliability of it. He died on the year it was completed. Coincidence? 6. Specific prophecies There are a few prophecies eg one about a specific war with the Romans. It talks about the Romans being defeated but predicts they will be victorious in 3-9 years (there is a specific word for that period of time). The verse also mentions where the defeat would take place : it says in the LOWEST part of the earth. This happened as predicted in the RED SEA which with modern knowledge, we now know to be the LOWEST POINT ON EARTH ! That's an amazing miraculous fact. 7. Scientific references to things impossible for a random person in the 7th century desert to know: The Quran makes allusions to: big bang, expanding universe, mountains have roots, non mixing of waters with different salinity, embryological stages etc. Those statements do not make sense in the context of 7th century Arabia which was very undeveloped as a civilisation. Not by someone who wasn't educated. We have lots of his sayings recorded which prove he was not educated. It was a harsh desert life. This was not a developed civilisation. 8. a masterpiece by someone who was illiterate. How do you create a masterpiece in a jigsaw pattern at a time with no paper, or computers? How do you track it all? How do you track all those mathematical symmetries? Especially when you are illiterate. 9. Inimitability The Quran makes the challenge for people to bring something like it. If that challenge was met, we would have known that by now. The other work would have been world famous and championed by Christians and atheists everywhere. It would have been known by every critic of Islam and every online keyboard warrior . It would be used in debates against Muslims as it would be the biggest argument against Islam and one that would cause huge numbers of people to leave Islam. Why would I or others want to follow a restrictive religion if it was demonstrably false? 1400 years. Still no contender. The best we have are silly offerings which just copy the quran but change key words in the sentence. Eg if you challenge me to write something equivalent to Shakespeare and I write 'To read or not to read, that is the conundrum'. Does that make me as skilled and original as Shakespeare? It's just a cheap copy of a clever line without any originality. Those who try to meet the challenge being silliness like that. The Quran invented a new style of literature. There was poetry and prose before that. It invented a new powerful mix of the two. It used words in multiple new ways and invented new extension of words that were ground breaking yet perfectly understandable. Arabs were masters of poetry at the time. It's the only thing they had. Imagine living a harsh existence as a nomad through the desert. What hobbies or art could you possibly develop: poetry was the most natural. Competitions were held annually. Great poets were highly regarded. At the age of 40 the prophet brings something that totally surpasses everything that came before. 10. Beautiful recitation It's a sound that moves people. Look at the millions of views various recitation videos get on UA-cam. And this recitation is inherent to the Quran and wasn't invented later. 11. Maintaining consistency Artists evolve over time. Their style changes and matures. The Quran doesn't show that. The first chapter revealed was chapter 96. Many surahs are long and different parts revealed in different times. Yet it all fits together. You don't see an early style and later style in terms of literary skill. Summary: the cumulative probability. There are many more features. So we have to consider that some random human, who couldn't read or write, brought a book that blew away the excellent poetry of the time (that was the one of the few things the Bedouin Arabs were skilled at) and it just happened to have this multitude of amazing features? All the while this was produced in a stage of life where he had a tumultuous 23 years which would not have been conducive to concentrating on such are masterpiece: wars, exile into the desert with starvation, personally taking part in multiple battles, multiple marriages, setting up an entirely new city and state etc. Which other artist produced 1 masterpiece over a long period like that whilst going through tumultuous changes. Each of those factors above are low probability phenomena. The cumulative probability of all of those existing in one book is something like 1 in 10^60 as a very rough probability. The proof for the quran is based on verifiable facts anyone can check for themselves.

​@@think-islam-channelSalam Alaykum. I wanted to ask you about something, a little thought in my head that I have after conversating with a christian. When I was talking to him about the multiple facts about the natural word that the Quran talked about (mountains, fetus development descriptio, lowest land) he said that Muhammad was inspired by Lucifer, who suggested him about all these things because he previously was an angel who knew evwry corner of the earth (description of Lucifer in Christianity). I said to him that it was not possible for Islam to be a religion of the Devil, since it teaches good things, it teaches to fight the pagans, forbids prostitution, etc. He responded saying that to the Devil the only thing that matters is to turn people away from Christ, and that he used the good commandments to portray himself as a real prophet. So my question would be, can it be true that Muhammad was deceived by the Devil? If not, please give valid reasons for that (arguments that would convince that christian). (that conversation is over, but I'm asking for myself and for future conversations)

@@truthgiver8286 The proof of the Quran is that it is Divine/beyond the ability of humans to produce. The dishonesty of atheists that I was referring to, is in the new way they categorise themselves ie that they are just not convinced about the proof of God. But I don't think this is true judging by their actions. They act very adamant that a belief in God is irrational. So they do take a position but don't want to defend it. You have the word truth in your name. Do you value truth? What is your opinion about what is true?

@@think-islam-channel That is not a new way we categorise ourselves it sounds like you like to make things up to support your ideas. The Quran is beyond the ability of humans to produce it is a book and it was produced by humans. Muhammad was a not so powerful warlord and he saw what was achieved by Christianity and basically copied it. He used the same methods to gain power promising the followers everlasting life.

@@truthgiver8286 respond to this proof then Proof of the Qur'an The Quran is a divine book that is impossible for humans to have produced. It has many easily verifiable superlative features. The sum probability of having these features in one phenomenon leads to an extremely small probability. There are many features. These have to be verifiable superlative and unusual features. 1. The greatest work of literature in a language. If anyone wants to contest this claim I'll simplify this for the sake of argument and say it is at least one of the greatest works in the Arabic language. 2. Memorisable from front to back. Christians try hard but can't do it. Even though they make it easier for themselves but ignoring what they think is the original Bible, and use the English translation instead (look up Bible Bee) 3. Mathematical symmetries. There are tonnes of these eg the Qur'an checksum miracle the fact that words like day appear 365 times, midmost is a word in the middle verse of chapter 2, the symmetries of 19, and hundreds of other examples I can detail. 4. Preservation. Massive topic. The Quran, in terms of the original skeletal text (without vowel points as it was originally) is perfectly preserved. The preservation method is itself spectacular. The Quran was preserved primarily by memorisation. The prophet had the verses recited to him by the angel Gabriel and he memorised those verses. He would then got to his companions and scribes and get them to make a written record and get them to memorise those verses. He would also specify where those verses would go in the Quran. The scribes would write on bones, stones and palm branches. This proves that normal writing materials were rare. Those that memorised it would pass out on to others. This process continues today. The Quran is memorised perfectly by millions. It's an amazing phenomenon. 5. One hit wonder. No earlier works? A literary masterpiece from the get go? How? In a desert with no access to paper! 5. The amazing jigsaw. This is very interesting. The Quran was not revealed in a linear manner from start to finish. It was totally random with chapters and parts of chapters revealed at different times and places over 23 years. Verses would often be revealed referring to many things that happened at that time. Yet it all for together perfectly at the end. How do you create something over 23 years with random parts relating to events in those 23 years then these all fitting together perfectly at the end? One additional point here: Imagine if he died before completing it? That would have destroyed the whole reliability of it. He died on the year it was completed. Coincidence? 6. Specific prophecies There are a few prophecies eg one about a specific war with the Romans. It talks about the Romans being defeated but predicts they will be victorious in 3-9 years (there is a specific word for that period of time). The verse also mentions where the defeat would take place : it says in the LOWEST part of the earth. This happened as predicted in the RED SEA which with modern knowledge, we now know to be the LOWEST POINT ON EARTH ! That's an amazing miraculous fact. 7. Scientific references to things impossible for a random person in the 7th century desert to know: The Quran makes allusions to: big bang, expanding universe, mountains have roots, non mixing of waters with different salinity, embryological stages etc. Those statements do not make sense in the context of 7th century Arabia which was very undeveloped as a civilisation. Not by someone who wasn't educated. We have lots of his sayings recorded which prove he was not educated. It was a harsh desert life. This was not a developed civilisation. 8. a masterpiece by someone who was illiterate. How do you create a masterpiece in a jigsaw pattern at a time with no paper, or computers? How do you track it all? How do you track all those mathematical symmetries? Especially when you are illiterate. 9. Inimitability The Quran makes the challenge for people to bring something like it. If that challenge was met, we would have known that by now. The other work would have been world famous and championed by Christians and atheists everywhere. It would have been known by every critic of Islam and every online keyboard warrior . It would be used in debates against Muslims as it would be the biggest argument against Islam and one that would cause huge numbers of people to leave Islam. Why would I or others want to follow a restrictive religion if it was demonstrably false? 1400 years. Still no contender. The best we have are silly offerings which just copy the quran but change key words in the sentence. Eg if you challenge me to write something equivalent to Shakespeare and I write 'To read or not to read, that is the conundrum'. Does that make me as skilled and original as Shakespeare? It's just a cheap copy of a clever line without any originality. Those who try to meet the challenge being silliness like that. The Quran invented a new style of literature. There was poetry and prose before that. It invented a new powerful mix of the two. It used words in multiple new ways and invented new extension of words that were ground breaking yet perfectly understandable. Arabs were masters of poetry at the time. It's the only thing they had. Imagine living a harsh existence as a nomad through the desert. What hobbies or art could you possibly develop: poetry was the most natural. Competitions were held annually. Great poets were highly regarded. At the age of 40 the prophet brings something that totally surpasses everything that came before. 10. Beautiful recitation It's a sound that moves people. Look at the millions of views various recitation videos get on UA-cam. And this recitation is inherent to the Quran and wasn't invented later. 11. Maintaining consistency Artists evolve over time. Their style changes and matures. The Quran doesn't show that. The first chapter revealed was chapter 96. Many surahs are long and different parts revealed in different times. Yet it all fits together. You don't see an early style and later style in terms of literary skill. Summary: the cumulative probability. There are many more features. So we have to consider that some random human, who couldn't read or write, brought a book that blew away the excellent poetry of the time (that was the one of the few things the Bedouin Arabs were skilled at) and it just happened to have this multitude of amazing features? All the while this was produced in a stage of life where he had a tumultuous 23 years which would not have been conducive to concentrating on such are masterpiece: wars, exile into the desert with starvation, personally taking part in multiple battles, multiple marriages, setting up an entirely new city and state etc. Which other artist produced 1 masterpiece over a long period like that whilst going through tumultuous changes. Each of those factors above are low probability phenomena. The cumulative probability of all of those existing in one book is something like 1 in 10^60 as a very rough probability. The proof for the quran is based on verifiable facts anyone can check for themselves.

@@think-islam-channel Eratosthenes of Cyrene calculated the circumference of the earth around 200 BC 900 years before you say the Quran was written The Pyramid of Djoser built 2630-2610 BC so this must mean the Greek gods are divine and also the Egyptian or perhaps they knew a lot more than you give them credit for. Baghdad had hospitals, Schools and libraries before the 7th century so don't try and make out they knew nothing They were one of the more advanced civilisations of the time and you do them a huge discredit.

@@truthgiver8286 Truth, how is that truthful as a reply to my post? Do you think that's an intelligent and appropriation response to the argument I presented?

@@NostraDavid2 thanks for that perspective. Yes the first part of the argument is a generic argument for a powerful, intelligent, wilful First Cause of the universe This sounds very much like some sort of God, but it doesn't specify which God. So it's an argument that anyone that believes in a God can use, no matter what their religion. It takes you as far as Deism: am impersonal God. So to get from there to a specific God needs further argumentation as mentioned later on. For the Muslim, this is to Prove that the Quran is a miraculous, divine phenomenon that humans could not have produced. Once you have that proof then obviously what the Quran says would be true. Christians would use different arguments based on the resurrection to prove their theology and thats bad on a lot of assumptions. With the proof of Qur'an, all the features in it are immediately obvious or you can Google it within a couple of minutes. Let me know your thoughts. I'll try and put the argument in the comments as well so you can read it

@@NostraDavid2 Proof of the Qur'an The Quran is a divine book that is impossible for humans to have produced. It has many easily verifiable superlative features. The sum probability of having these features in one phenomenon leads to an extremely small probability. There are many features. These have to be verifiable superlative and unusual features. 1. The greatest work of literature in a language. If anyone wants to contest this claim I'll simplify this for the sake of argument and say it is at least one of the greatest works in the Arabic language. 2. Memorisable from front to back. Christians try hard but can't do it. Even though they make it easier for themselves but ignoring what they think is the original Bible, and use the English translation instead (look up Bible Bee) 3. Mathematical symmetries. There are tonnes of these eg the Qur'an checksum miracle the fact that words like day appear 365 times, midmost is a word in the middle verse of chapter 2, the symmetries of 19, and hundreds of other examples I can detail. 4. Preservation. Massive topic. The Quran, in terms of the original skeletal text (without vowel points as it was originally) is perfectly preserved. The preservation method is itself spectacular. The Quran was preserved primarily by memorisation. The prophet had the verses recited to him by the angel Gabriel and he memorised those verses. He would then got to his companions and scribes and get them to make a written record and get them to memorise those verses. He would also specify where those verses would go in the Quran. The scribes would write on bones, stones and palm branches. This proves that normal writing materials were rare. Those that memorised it would pass out on to others. This process continues today. The Quran is memorised perfectly by millions. It's an amazing phenomenon. 5. One hit wonder. No earlier works? A literary masterpiece from the get go? How? In a desert with no access to paper! 5. The amazing jigsaw. This is very interesting. The Quran was not revealed in a linear manner from start to finish. It was totally random with chapters and parts of chapters revealed at different times and places over 23 years. Verses would often be revealed referring to many things that happened at that time. Yet it all for together perfectly at the end. How do you create something over 23 years with random parts relating to events in those 23 years then these all fitting together perfectly at the end? One additional point here: Imagine if he died before completing it? That would have destroyed the whole reliability of it. He died on the year it was completed. Coincidence? 6. Specific prophecies There are a few prophecies eg one about a specific war with the Romans. It talks about the Romans being defeated but predicts they will be victorious in 3-9 years (there is a specific word for that period of time). The verse also mentions where the defeat would take place : it says in the LOWEST part of the earth. This happened as predicted in the RED SEA which with modern knowledge, we now know to be the LOWEST POINT ON EARTH ! That's an amazing miraculous fact. 7. Scientific references to things impossible for a random person in the 7th century desert to know: The Quran makes allusions to: big bang, expanding universe, mountains have roots, non mixing of waters with different salinity, embryological stages etc. Those statements do not make sense in the context of 7th century Arabia which was very undeveloped as a civilisation. Not by someone who wasn't educated. We have lots of his sayings recorded which prove he was not educated. It was a harsh desert life. This was not a developed civilisation. 8. a masterpiece by someone who was illiterate. How do you create a masterpiece in a jigsaw pattern at a time with no paper, or computers? How do you track it all? How do you track all those mathematical symmetries? Especially when you are illiterate. 9. Inimitability The Quran makes the challenge for people to bring something like it. If that challenge was met, we would have known that by now. The other work would have been world famous and championed by Christians and atheists everywhere. It would have been known by every critic of Islam and every online keyboard warrior . It would be used in debates against Muslims as it would be the biggest argument against Islam and one that would cause huge numbers of people to leave Islam. Why would I or others want to follow a restrictive religion if it was demonstrably false? 1400 years. Still no contender. The best we have are silly offerings which just copy the quran but change key words in the sentence. Eg if you challenge me to write something equivalent to Shakespeare and I write 'To read or not to read, that is the conundrum'. Does that make me as skilled and original as Shakespeare? It's just a cheap copy of a clever line without any originality. Those who try to meet the challenge being silliness like that. The Quran invented a new style of literature. There was poetry and prose before that. It invented a new powerful mix of the two. It used words in multiple new ways and invented new extension of words that were ground breaking yet perfectly understandable. Arabs were masters of poetry at the time. It's the only thing they had. Imagine living a harsh existence as a nomad through the desert. What hobbies or art could you possibly develop: poetry was the most natural. Competitions were held annually. Great poets were highly regarded. At the age of 40 the prophet brings something that totally surpasses everything that came before. 10. Beautiful recitation It's a sound that moves people. Look at the millions of views various recitation videos get on UA-cam. And this recitation is inherent to the Quran and wasn't invented later. 11. Maintaining consistency Artists evolve over time. Their style changes and matures. The Quran doesn't show that. The first chapter revealed was chapter 96. Many surahs are long and different parts revealed in different times. Yet it all fits together. You don't see an early style and later style in terms of literary skill. Summary: the cumulative probability. There are many more features. So we have to consider that some random human, who couldn't read or write, brought a book that blew away the excellent poetry of the time (that was the one of the few things the Bedouin Arabs were skilled at) and it just happened to have this multitude of amazing features? All the while this was produced in a stage of life where he had a tumultuous 23 years which would not have been conducive to concentrating on such are masterpiece: wars, exile into the desert with starvation, personally taking part in multiple battles, multiple marriages, setting up an entirely new city and state etc. Which other artist produced 1 masterpiece over a long period like that whilst going through tumultuous changes. Each of those factors above are low probability phenomena. The cumulative probability of all of those existing in one book is something like 1 in 10^60 as a very rough probability. The proof for the quran is based on verifiable facts anyone can check for themselves.

@@cjdkskxnxksk Jazakallah khairan

@@cjdkskxnxksk please check this out as well InshaAllah ua-cam.com/video/FOcgdlqVfdY/v-deo.htmlsi=0r8Jne8xtQTpV63O

@@docjaramillo I love your last line. The rest is amateurish nonsense.

@@docjaramillo Curiosity and awe, if one is wired that way.

@@MrHolodecker what's your proof My Proof is above in the video. Do you have any points against that argument or are you just lost in your little world?

@@think-islam-channel I don't need any proof for a statement that is obviously true. All books are produced by man. No exceptions. Just like every car is produced by man, it would be silly to ask for proof of such a statement.

@@MrHolodecker I'll leave you in your cosy little world. Take care...

logically.... if i'm god himself, why do i need some puny humans to speak on my behalf and let them write a book about me to prove of my existence if i possess all the power and authority?

@fatdoi003 That's because there is a difference between 'need to' and 'choose to'. And the Quran is not the words of humans but the survey communication from God to you Proof of the Qur'an The Quran is a divine book that is impossible for humans to have produced. It has many easily verifiable superlative features. The sum probability of having these features in one phenomenon leads to an extremely small probability. There are many features. These have to be verifiable superlative and unusual features. 1. The greatest work of literature in a language. If anyone wants to contest this claim I'll simplify this for the sake of argument and say it is at least one of the greatest works in the Arabic language. 2. Memorisable from front to back. Christians try hard but can't do it. Even though they make it easier for themselves but ignoring what they think is the original Bible, and use the English translation instead (look up Bible Bee) 3. Mathematical symmetries. There are tonnes of these eg the Qur'an checksum miracle the fact that words like day appear 365 times, midmost is a word in the middle verse of chapter 2, the symmetries of 19, and hundreds of other examples I can detail. 4. Preservation. Massive topic. The Quran, in terms of the original skeletal text (without vowel points as it was originally) is perfectly preserved. The preservation method is itself spectacular. The Quran was preserved primarily by memorisation. The prophet had the verses recited to him by the angel Gabriel and he memorised those verses. He would then got to his companions and scribes and get them to make a written record and get them to memorise those verses. He would also specify where those verses would go in the Quran. The scribes would write on bones, stones and palm branches. This proves that normal writing materials were rare. Those that memorised it would pass out on to others. This process continues today. The Quran is memorised perfectly by millions. It's an amazing phenomenon. 5. One hit wonder. No earlier works? A literary masterpiece from the get go? How? In a desert with no access to paper! 5. The amazing jigsaw. This is very interesting. The Quran was not revealed in a linear manner from start to finish. It was totally random with chapters and parts of chapters revealed at different times and places over 23 years. Verses would often be revealed referring to many things that happened at that time. Yet it all for together perfectly at the end. How do you create something over 23 years with random parts relating to events in those 23 years then these all fitting together perfectly at the end? One additional point here: Imagine if he died before completing it? That would have destroyed the whole reliability of it. He died on the year it was completed. Coincidence? 6. Specific prophecies There are a few prophecies eg one about a specific war with the Romans. It talks about the Romans being defeated but predicts they will be victorious in 3-9 years (there is a specific word for that period of time). The verse also mentions where the defeat would take place : it says in the LOWEST part of the earth. This happened as predicted in the RED SEA which with modern knowledge, we now know to be the LOWEST POINT ON EARTH ! That's an amazing miraculous fact. 7. Scientific references to things impossible for a random person in the 7th century desert to know: The Quran makes allusions to: big bang, expanding universe, mountains have roots, non mixing of waters with different salinity, embryological stages etc. Those statements do not make sense in the context of 7th century Arabia which was very undeveloped as a civilisation. Not by someone who wasn't educated. We have lots of his sayings recorded which prove he was not educated. It was a harsh desert life. This was not a developed civilisation. 8. a masterpiece by someone who was illiterate. How do you create a masterpiece in a jigsaw pattern at a time with no paper, or computers? How do you track it all? How do you track all those mathematical symmetries? Especially when you are illiterate. 9. Inimitability The Quran makes the challenge for people to bring something like it. If that challenge was met, we would have known that by now. The other work would have been world famous and championed by Christians and atheists everywhere. It would have been known by every critic of Islam and every online keyboard warrior . It would be used in debates against Muslims as it would be the biggest argument against Islam and one that would cause huge numbers of people to leave Islam. Why would I or others want to follow a restrictive religion if it was demonstrably false? 1400 years. Still no contender. The best we have are silly offerings which just copy the quran but change key words in the sentence. Eg if you challenge me to write something equivalent to Shakespeare and I write 'To read or not to read, that is the conundrum'. Does that make me as skilled and original as Shakespeare? It's just a cheap copy of a clever line without any originality. Those who try to meet the challenge being silliness like that. The Quran invented a new style of literature. There was poetry and prose before that. It invented a new powerful mix of the two. It used words in multiple new ways and invented new extension of words that were ground breaking yet perfectly understandable. Arabs were masters of poetry at the time. It's the only thing they had. Imagine living a harsh existence as a nomad through the desert. What hobbies or art could you possibly develop: poetry was the most natural. Competitions were held annually. Great poets were highly regarded. At the age of 40 the prophet brings something that totally surpasses everything that came before. 10. Beautiful recitation It's a sound that moves people. Look at the millions of views various recitation videos get on UA-cam. And this recitation is inherent to the Quran and wasn't invented later. 11. Maintaining consistency Artists evolve over time. Their style changes and matures. The Quran doesn't show that. The first chapter revealed was chapter 96. Many surahs are long and different parts revealed in different times. Yet it all fits together. You don't see an early style and later style in terms of literary skill. Summary: the cumulative probability. There are many more features. So we have to consider that some random human, who couldn't read or write, brought a book that blew away the excellent poetry of the time (that was the one of the few things the Bedouin Arabs were skilled at) and it just happened to have this multitude of amazing features? All the while this was produced in a stage of life where he had a tumultuous 23 years which would not have been conducive to concentrating on such are masterpiece: wars, exile into the desert with starvation, personally taking part in multiple battles, multiple marriages, setting up an entirely new city and state etc. Which other artist produced 1 masterpiece over a long period like that whilst going through tumultuous changes. Each of those factors above are low probability phenomena. The cumulative probability of all of those existing in one book is something like 1 in 10^60 as a very rough probability. The proof for the quran is based on verifiable facts anyone can check for themselves.

@@jameshart3879 So you put up a video where he waffles unintelligently about ft in response to the clear comments he made when he was tipsy and not so guarded? Have you seen the original clip. I have it up on my channel. He clearly admits that it's the strongest argument from the argument and that it required serious thought. He was a rhetorician and played to the camera. Are you easily impressed? Easily Impressed with rhetoric and eloquence over substance?

@@jameshart3879 that's a terrible clip BTW. Clearly a total novice when it comes to philosophy. And clearly a master of oratory and impressing the masses.

@@jameshart3879 ua-cam.com/video/-AAeU8mp13M/v-deo.htmlsi=LcgaND4-bHe-XaDO

@@jameshart3879 Hitchens : speaking openly in the back off a car where he didn't realised he was being recorded: "Which is the best argument you've get come up. I think every one of us [implying prominent atheists] picks the ‘fine-tuning’ one as the most intriguing” His colleague adds" the goldilocks" Hitchens continues "Fine tuning. The one degree, well the one hair difference of nothing Even though it doesn't prove design, doesn't prove a designer, could all have happened without, you have to spend time thinking about it, working on it. It’s not trivial. We all say that."

@@think-islam-channel straight to ad Homs. Wow you really are awful at taking ANY criticism aren't you. Weak.

@@mdug7224 Thanks for the question. The issue relates to matter and time which are the 4 dimensions of spacetime. All matter in the universe exists in time. Matter is the same as energy. Energy comes from previous energy. The energy in your body must have been present in every moment of time going back in time. Because energy is neither created nor destroyed. If there was a hypothetical point in the past that is an infinity of time ago then the energy in your body must have existed at that point. If there was this infinite past time, then how did that energy manage to cross an infinity of time to get to now. This is impossible because nothing can reach an infinty of anything. Nothing can travel through an infinite amount of time Therefore, there can't be a point of time that is an infinty of time back in the past. The past has to be finite

@@mdug7224 The only logical solution is an entity that doesn't exist in our concert of time or matter. As to what actual reality that entity exists in, this is something that 4D brains cannot conceptualise

@think-islam-channel I am of the thought that time is the measure of change in our current universe. Infinite regress has been proposed as time folding. I can see how the idea of a finite cosmos sits but there is still the 'before' to consider.

@@think-islam-channel This means you are not dismissing the concept of multi-verses.

@@mdug7224 Yes the time in this universe is past finite. But I get your point that there was some for of 'time' before this universe. That's the reason we come from and return to. Think of the word concept of time in a dream or a film. We can traverse a million years in a film. But when we come out of the cinema we are back to reality and only 2 hours have passed.

Excellent comment. May God bless you.

@@grawss damn. i deleted one of the annoying brain dead comments and that deleted the whole thread. Anyway, we know where we are up to I tend to draft messages in a doc so I have the last message saved. This is it Yes we may have to agree to disagree if you refuse the truth 🙂 To you your religion, and to me mine Qur'an 109:6 Why couldn't you produce good examples of the many prophecies you claimed were in the Bible? I don't think there are my that are specific and that's most likely why you haven't addressed that request. What genius in the Bible as a whole? You my just sick your head in the same about the many problems and then just say'well as a whole it's genius'. What do you mean by genius? Give me concrete examples. The stuff you quoted before is not worth anything unless you can prove the Bible to be a book worth taking seriously. What proof do you have that God approves of it? You worship Jesus? That verse says nothing about Jesus supposedly being God. It's wild interpretation. That's idolatry. If you are wrong, and God deems that your fate is an eternity in Hell, will you concede that you were clearly warned. Also that you chose to continue worshipping Jesus alongside God, rather than God alone. Please confirm that the message has been delivered.

@@grawss thank you and may God guide and bless us both ❤️

@@think-islam-channel Oh interesting, I have all the comments saved in comment history. You can access it by searching "youtube comment history". Might help with stuff getting deleted! Here's the verse in question (emphasis mine): _For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, _*_Mighty God, Everlasting Father,_*_ Prince of Peace._ (Isaiah 9:6) Here's another verse from the OT: _"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on _*_Me whom they pierced._*_ "_ (Zech 12:10) Here's another, also OT: _"Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me."_ (Isaiah 48:16) There we have three: The Lord God, His Spirit, and Me, who was there from the beginning. Or as John says _In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God._ (John 1:1,2) Or as John says later: _For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one._ (1 John 5:7) Jesus is God, and just as we are soul, flesh, and spirit, so is He. While I thank you for your concern on whether I have everlasting life or everlasting regret, I am confident in my salvation. _Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin._ (Rom 3:19,20) _that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved._ (Rom 10:9) God is faithful.

​@@think-islam-channel Oh interesting, bummer about the deletion! Here's the verse in question (emphasis mine): _For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, _*_Mighty God, Everlasting Father,_*_ Prince of Peace._ (Isaiah 9:6) Here's another verse from the OT: _"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on _*_Me whom they pierced._*_ "_ (Zech 12:10) Here's another, also OT: _"Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me."_ (Isaiah 48:16) There we have three: The Lord God, His Spirit, and Me, who was there from the beginning. Or as John says: _In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God._ (John 1:1,2) Or as John says later: _For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one._ (1 John 5:7) While I thank you for your concern, I am confident in my salvation. _Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin._ (Rom 3:19,20) _But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us._ (Rom 5:8) God is faithful.

@@think-islam-channel Oh interesting, bummer about the deletion! Here's the verse in question (emphasis mine): _For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, _*_Mighty God, Everlasting Father,_*_ Prince of Peace._ (Isaiah 9:6) Here's another verse from the OT: _"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on _*_Me whom they pierced._*_ "_ (Zech 12:10) Here's another, also OT: _"Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me."_ (Isaiah 48:16) There we have three: The Lord God, His Spirit, and Me, who was there from the beginning. Or as John says: _In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God._ (John 1:1,2) Or as John says later: _For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one._ (1 John 5:7) God is faithful.

@@richardvitty1745 that comment doesn't make sense. Do you want to clarify

@@sordidknifeparty that's a true distinction but most online debatorial atheists claim to be rational and would not admit to neglecting in faith based stuff like souls etc. Hence most woukd fall under the materialistic category. Interestingly, the real atheists I meet often believe all sorts of things like spirits, a higher power etc. They all seem to believe something. What kind of atheist are you?

​@@think-islam-channelI am the type of person who doesn't accept propositions that aren't supported by evidence.

@sordidknifeparty what are your beliefs about what is true then?

@@sordidknifeparty if you have listened to that talk in total (which I doubt) then that's good enough evidence to be getting on with. If you are not convinced, that's your loss and it u just tells me that God hasn't seen fit to guide you possibly due to your arrogance/who/opinionated attitude etc. It's your loss.

@@sordidknifeparty one of your comments is not visibke but I'll respond to it: The cowardly thing is in resorting to 'I don't know' 'I don't know' 'I don't know' about questions like 'can the past be infinite', how do you get something from nothing'. 'I don't know' 'I don't know' 'I don't know' 'I don't know' 'I don't know' 'I don't know' But I am convinced that God is imaginary. Stupid logic.

​@@think-islam-channelmy friend, if it is impossible to know something, for example whether the past is eternal, saying I don't know is the only honest answer, and takes enormous courage to admit. It is cowardly to pretend you know something that you don't so that you don't have to accept that you're ignorant like the rest of us.

​@@think-islam-channelalso, no one is saying they're convinced God is imaginary. For the billionth time now we are simply saying we are not convinced of your claims of a god. You have failed to show substantial or sufficient evidence for the claim, and so we do not accept it. Once again this is simply honest and has nothing to do with cowardice

@sordidknifeparty saying I don't know, is fine But then later saying 'but I know you are wrong' doesn't make sense. So those who don't know should keep our of the debate

@@dalesplitstone6276 I disagree. The is no logical argument for Santa. There are logical arguments for particular Gods whether you agree with those arguments or not.

@@think-islam-channel There are no logical arguments for any particular god. If there were, there would not be believers in so many different gods. Yahweh started out as a war god, one of many. He gradually became the main god, then the only god. If Allah were the one true god, he would have been known before Islam.

@@dalesplitstone6276 You just proved yourself wrong. Your logic even argues against you. Allah has been known before Islam. Allah = Al + ilah = The + God =The God. There are Jews that testify to that. Islam, Jesus pbuh and Jews below on the same God It's the pagan Romans that invented the Trinity nonsense. Your denial in this area is your major loss. This is not idle debate. This is your soul on the line. Unfortunately most atheists are too shallow and delegate their responsibility to famous atheists who do the thinking for them. The same atheists who will disown them when lived up before God on Judgment day. Are you going to one of those that spends your life stoning your ego by thinking you are stunning debates against online theists. That's going to be a massive loss to you. Imagine giving up the option of an eternity with whatever your soul desires Your choice

@@think-islam-channel I am not an Atheist, I am a Luciferian. As I approached the age of two years old, I came to the conclusion that God, as presented by the church (I had not yet learned to read, so I had to take the word of the church that they were being true to The Bible) was evil. I confronted the preacher to make sure I was not misinterpreting things, and as a result of his explanation of things, I prayed to God, declaring that I would rather burn in Hell than worship an evil god like him. Although I disavowed God, I had to continue to attend church until I was 7 years old, because my father and my mother had come to an agreement that she could force us to attend church until we were 7 years old, but after we turned 7, we could choose whether we could attend church. I tried unsuccessfully to become an Atheist, but could not shake the feeling that God was real, so I lived in paranoia. It was especially hard to shake the feeling that God was real because I had several events occur in my life that seemed to require supernatural intervention. When I was 21 years old, I once more prayed to God. This time for insight into the truth. I had a vision. In this vision there was The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and there was a hydra encouraging Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit of this tree. Each of the heads of the hydra bore the face of a religious leader. Standing before the hydra was Jesus with a sword. Every time he cut off one of the heads, two would grow back, with one of these wearing a mask of Jesus himself. When I awoke, I knew the truth. The Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is morality. The Biblical serpent symbolizes religion. Religion encourages us to partake of morality. We were not meant to be moral creatures. We are meant to live our lives according to secular ethics, not morality. The death referred to is the death of our individuality, when we surrender to religion. Religion is the Biblical serpent, and Yahweh, and Allah, and all the other gods are the faces of The Devil. Lucifer is the one true God. Lucifer is the bringer of light and enlightenment. “Let there be light!” The true Earthly mission of Christ was to lead the Jews away from the false god Yahweh, and towards the one true God, Lucifer. Unfortunately, the church has twisted the true message of Christ. Ever since I have accepted Lucifer as the one true God, I have had peace of mind. For the record, Lucifer neither needs nor wants your worship. Indeed, Lucifer prefers Atheists and Agnostics, because he prefers to be ignored. I can no more prove the existence of Lucifer than I can Santa Claus. But, since Lucifer prefers to remain hidden, it doesn't matter. OTOH, if you are worshipping the wrong god, and the real god is a jealous god, you are in deep Doo-Doo.

@@dalesplitstone6276 so you worship the devil created by God?

@@ZenWithKen if things didn't come from nothing what did they come from?

@@think-islam-channel The current accepted model is that our reality expanded from a hot, dense state. The furthest that our understanding has taken us back in time is to the Plank epoch. Anything before that point is unknown at this time. Anything posited beyond that point, such as gods, is pure speculation.

@@ZenWithKen Do you agree a creator is possible then. So you support the idea that everything could have come from absolute nothingness?

@@think-islam-channel A creature is possible. Everything coming from nothing is possible. Me living to 1000 is possible. I would put the probability of all three at a very low level.

@@ZenWithKen 🤦‍♀️ You're educating has let you down. I'm out. Take care. Read the Qur'an