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Marathon Handbook
United Kingdom
Приєднався 23 лют 2016
We believe life is better when you run.
And our mission is to help everyone run more.
We are your trusted running partner offering incisive, impartial advice.
Free training plans, expert coach advice, weekly podcast, and running news 👇
marathonhandbook.com
And our mission is to help everyone run more.
We are your trusted running partner offering incisive, impartial advice.
Free training plans, expert coach advice, weekly podcast, and running news 👇
marathonhandbook.com
Why Is A Marathon 26.2 Miles Long?
My latest love letter to the marathon: Why is a marathon 26.2 miles long*...and more importantly why have we never changed it?
*26 miles and 385 yards
Guardian article on re-measuring the "original" marathon route from 1908:
www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/23/king-charles-marathon-26-miles-385-yards-1908-olympics
Our free marathon training plans:
marathonhandbook.com/trainingplans/marathon-training-plans/
Over 210,000 runners read our newsletter. Sign up here and get our free book The 26 Golden Rules Of Running: marathonhandbook.com/newsletter/
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00:00 - The Other Question
01:09 - The First Ever Marathon (...in Marathon)
02:47 - The First Modern Marathon
04:20 - A Royal intervention
04:45 - 26 Miles and 385 Yards
06:32 - the marathon is not normal
07:08 - oh boy, it's the metric system
09:14 - 5ks and 10ks are a modern invention
10:51 - The hypothesis - why the marathon is a non-standard distance
*26 miles and 385 yards
Guardian article on re-measuring the "original" marathon route from 1908:
www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/23/king-charles-marathon-26-miles-385-yards-1908-olympics
Our free marathon training plans:
marathonhandbook.com/trainingplans/marathon-training-plans/
Over 210,000 runners read our newsletter. Sign up here and get our free book The 26 Golden Rules Of Running: marathonhandbook.com/newsletter/
Follow us on IG: marathon.handbook
Follow us on Tiktok: www.tiktok.com/@marathon.handbook
Like us on FB: marathonhandbook
Follow us on X: x.com/MarathonHB
00:00 - The Other Question
01:09 - The First Ever Marathon (...in Marathon)
02:47 - The First Modern Marathon
04:20 - A Royal intervention
04:45 - 26 Miles and 385 Yards
06:32 - the marathon is not normal
07:08 - oh boy, it's the metric system
09:14 - 5ks and 10ks are a modern invention
10:51 - The hypothesis - why the marathon is a non-standard distance
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i've been using my novablast 4 for daily training and all races 5k/10k and got my first sub 2 PB for my half marathon last month.. now i think about searching one race shoes,so may i know magic speed is the best choice because i already planned to buy one
Loved the video, very impressive. Do you know of any individuals that have had knee injuries / surgeries and successfully been able to come back and complete a sub 3 marathon ?
Should i buy ForeverRun or Saucony Hurricane 24? Thanks
Jamil Coury just put a ton of miles on the H1, to capture that chipotle segment. .., so there is that. I am definitely interested in that H1 first, and the T1 second.
7:56 I have a fairly long walking stride (being 6'6"/1.98m tall) and a thousand steps fit me is only a little more than a kilometre. My guess is a "step" was a full gait cycle: for a relatively short Roman I could imagine 1000 gait cycles would equate to around 1600m.
I checked this and you’re right ! Thanks for the comment
Nice. I really liked it. I knew the story behind the Greeks, but did not know a lot about the actual distances. Very well done.
Thank you very much!
One reason that super shoes are good for slower people is that the foam is softer and preserves the legs over 26miles
Great, informative fascinating lesson! Allegedly, Pheidippides said before dying, "Rejoice! We conquer!" (Which I always thought sounded really cool). I'll add that if you're a mid-packer 4 hour marathoner like myself, you will invariably end up running MORE than 26.2 miles in a marathon, though, with running around people, water stations, and not running the tangents correctly due to fatigue.
Thomas here! Thanks for sharing the other Pheidippides quote. I had found that in research but dismissed it because I thought ‘conquer’ implied taking over somewhere, so assumed it was misattributed. I see some sources agree with you though !
And then after the marathon distance was standardized in 1921 the Boston Marathon course had to be modified. When the Boston marathon, which was inspired by the first modern Olympics, first began the starting line was in the town of Ashland to make it 25 miles. But then they had to add a mile and change to the distance and so since 1922 the Boston Marathon has begun one town west in Hopkington.
Great knowledge. Thanks for sharing
Soon after that historical war and the messenger
Nice history lesson. I appreciate it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Protein! Is good!🎉
💪
All my medals are in a bin in my closet lol
😅😅
I feel looking at elites for positive/ negative splits discussion is not good for amateurs. The elites are racing for victory so other factors come into play. We finish 8.647st place. Other logic applies 😂
Add Cordyceps to the list of legal performance enhancers 🍄
I personally think super shoes work for everyone. Even if youre not looking for faster times, go do a recovery run in a pair. I wore alphafly 3s on a day nike was letting our run club try them out but it was after a long run. Recovery run felt like I was floating with no effort. Slower Cadence, short stride, it definitely still worked. I also think there is a super shoe for everyone. I picked up some altra vanish carbon after having run most my races in vaporflys. I find myself going to the altras every single time now. All my PRs in them, my feet don't hurt near as much after a race. Maybe I'm giving up a small amount of performance? But I honestly don't care. I'm taking the mid run comfort, post run recovery over that small loss of performance.
You’re not selling it to me
The latest 860 is truly a good all rounder for most people with plantar. My question Sir is, what high quality show is very similar to the 860 as I would like to try another brand. I’m quite partial to Brooks as I’ve had them in the past. Anyway and brand is ok. I truly value your advice. Cheers NZ.
So pre-supershoe there was NO performance enhacing tech in shoes? We went from 0-100 did we? Come on.
No - and we talk about this in the full episode. But while there were some gradual performance gains from say 1970 to 2016, there was / has been one almighty leap in the last 6-7 years
Does this also apply to gels, electrolytes, caffeine, sweat wicking fabric? Essentially then the only trustworthy PBs are from the original Greek Olympics?
We chat about this in the episode - that in every sport there’s a “drifting goalposts” of what is considered good results based on gradual refinement of equipment, nutrition, strategy. But super shows was an almighty leap.
Perhaps based on the other comments this is the issue with shorts, not enough time to go through detail
Has anyone done a marathon in WalMart shoes?
The title of the video "Super Shoes Don't Actually Make You Run a Faster Marathon" is contrary to the entire discussion. Everyone acknowledges that they do make you run a faster marathon.
…while you’ve got them on.
I have been loving the Magic Speed 4!
Ok, but don’t forget, any shoe in itself is performance enhancing technology. So where do we draw the line? Should we all run barefoot?
We cover this in the full episode and article we’re discussing - that there’s been a gradual improvement since the 1970s, but then an almighty leap around 2017!
I have my first marathon coming up in April 2025. I've run many half-marathons so I've worked out negative splitting quite well. My training is going well so far, although with a increase in volume, especially the long run, it's getting tougher and tougher each week. My goal for race day is to run a 3:15, planning a 1:38 for the first half and hopefully I'll be able to come home with a 1:37. At the moment I'm comfortably running a 1:33:30 for the HM (although I have gone sub-90). Just building my distance in training to hopefully get up to 32km-35km. Of course, I say all this but I suspect that despite a good race strategy and adequate fueling, I'll probably bonk and not even make 3:30 on race day.
Good luck; it's an ambitious time goal for your first marathon, so I hope you nail it. Thomas
@@marathonhandbook Yes, it's an ambitious goal and I'm certainly under no illusions this will require the effort of my life. However, I draw on my achievement eight years ago when I ran my first half-marathon and I was a complete novice. My training was terrible, I had no advice and nor did I seek out any (but I should have), I had inferior training gear and everything was just 'raw', 'amateur'. My longest training run was 12km and most of the time I tried hit PB's. However, I ran my first half-marathon in 95 minutes, which looking back, was a pretty decent time. Come forward eight years and after having achieved a sub-90 for the half-marathon, I'm now knowledgeable, I know how to do the correct training and, importantly, I know how to race correctly. So, we'll see how it goes. To run a 3:15 I need to average 12.98km/h. So far on my longest, long run of 25km, I'm averaging 13.5km/h, and there's lots more training to be done before April. Again, I'm under no illusions and I have no doubt I'll probably tank and come in at around 3:30.
@@marathonhandbook Also, there's a few factors on my side over the next 2 months. The key one being the temperature. As I live in Australia and it's summer over here, most of my training is done at temperatures of 20+C (and that's at 7AM in the morning). By the time race-day comes around, the temperature will be down to about 6C. This is a significant factor to running times and cause of fatigue. Also, by then I'll be running in super shoes and of course, leading into the event I would have fully tapered and rested. At the moment I'm hitting these times while in full training and still being partially fatigued. Anyway, I can only hope these 'factors' will work in my favour. However, I'm 'very conscious that the marathon is a big run and anything can go wrong regardless of how well a person has prepared themselves.
Subscribed & liked video
I know someone will wear the heck out of those
I will wear it shopping 🎉
I like it 😂
Such an interesting, nuanced topic and obviously the super shoes have been game changers in the sport. Here’s a hot take from me: maybe the developments in fueling have quickly made as least a big of an impact. The 4% economy increase associated to the original Vaporfly (unfortunately an average with quite a big standard deviation, which is an interesting discussion on it’s own: are these shoes unfair because because they differentiate between responders and non-responders) has been calculated to give a 1-2% speed increase. But the recent insights in high carb fueling are leading to huge increasements in many endurance sports at the moment. Mainly in cycling (and recently in some spectacular ultrarunning records), but for example Kipchoge (and probably the whole NN Running team) has been on the bandwagon for years now. I remember an interview with his manager Valentijn Trouw where he explained they pushed his carb intake so far at one point they had to dial it down a bit to optimize it. As this development happened more or less parallel to the super shoes, I’m really curious what the differentiation between the effects on the surge of marathon performance improvement is!
It's a great point! (Thomas here). And the changes in carb intake approach was actually in the back of my head when I was writing this...I decided to leave that to one side and try and focus on shoes, but it is a great discussion point. The refinement of sports training/racing protocols and the second-order effects (mainly a 'drifting goalposts' of what the records are) is something I'm going to dig into more.
@ I’d love to see that content ❤️ And good point: there are advancements in training as well, making it even harder to say what’s what… Cheers!
I like the faster not fitter reference. Some refer to or seek the fastest by any means. Others refer to or seek the fittest as a measure of true performance.
Glad you liked it!
Its interesting to note that easy volume seems to 2/3 of total across the board
Can it really be used for running?
Yes, and quite smoothly, in fact!
I like the editing on these shorts. I listen to the audio on my runs so seeing your facial expressions with subtle music in the background makes these clips funnier(only funny because of the term raw dog being used in this context)
Alex here. For what it’s worth, I did my best to keep a straight face 😅
@ you're a true professional haha
Runners from all generations have allways used the latest technologies. "Super' is just a label.
Thomas here - there’s been an undeniable leap in WRs and average finish times that coincide with the Introduction of carbon plates and supercritical foams around 2017. That’s what we’re discussing.
@@marathonhandbook If that's what your discussing, why the misleading title of the podcast?
A friend is running a marathon in five fingers just to prove he can. He’s normally a 2:40:00 runner. He is training for same time. 30 minutes instead of a 12 to 16 week training plan he’s been on it for a whole year but he just wants to prove he can.
Interested to hear if he can do it - we’d talk to him !
I liked the inner scorecard idea, as i concur. I love racing half marathon in Asics Hyperspeed, but even their stack heights are increasing. So, time for Asics Tartheredge or Lyteracer. In short, im not a fan of Super shoe. Ive tried it, and my feet feel lazy. To each their own, but the delima is........Am i going to be able to find a low stack racing (training) shoe in a few years?
Thomas here- I think we’re going to continue to see the shoe brands figure this out…and speaking to them at industry events, they’re very aware that carbon plates and high stacks don’t suit every runner. I don’t think you’ve got to worry, personally
Technologies, rules, equipment and training change over time. The records will be broken, but the athletes will be looked upon based on eras. Babe Ruth will be looked at differently than Aaron Judge in baseball. Serena Williams vs Chris Everett in tennis. Patrick Mahomes vs Joe Montana. Different times. Hard to compare. For the average runner, use whatever you're comfortable racing in that will give you the enjoyment of racing and giving your best effort. It's what makes you feel the happiest. . Will you feel better if you break a PB, but you know you didn't need to work as hard using a supershoe?
Thomas here - nice summary, sir. Thanks for listening! All this stuff does change over time, 100%. It's like a gradual drift of the goalposts. What is interesting with supershoes is that it was a one time, significant leap - instead of a continued drift, the goalposts moved 200ft overnight - and many of us have running careers that straddle that leap. How we think about this is, I think, the crux of what we were hoping to achieve in this chat.
Ruth should be compared to Ohtani Ohtani >> Judge
This is clearly not true stop spreading lies when it’s obvious these shoes DO make you run a faster it’s simple science….
Tell me you didn’t listen to the podcast without saying you didn’t listen to the podcast
Nah, in triathlon is in the reverse. If you don't own TT bike you are crippling yourself, can you do it without because guys in 80s did not had it? You can but why?
Thomas here, I think that rings true with one of our conclusions --which is that in competitive environments you don’t have a choice.
Not understood why superblast being just max cushion shoe are more expensive than magic speed which are carbon plated
You pay for the cushion, it seems. And fair enough: they’re more durable than the Magic Speeds, and have some pop to them, too.
Great tips. Thank you! Where is this awesome location? Also - any tips on running downhill on a paved road?
Katelyn is in Costa Rica! On paved roads, short steps are crucial - the shock loading of big steps is something to avoid
I've got both
✅✅
I did a 12 mile long run averaging 10 minutes per mile across the distance and it was an excruciating, miserable experience. I did a 6.5 mile “easy” run at 5 mph. My heart rate fluctuated between 142 and 150 because of the hills. My zone 2 ends at 144. This was extremely difficult and uncomfortable for me, so when I hear and see all these runners talk about easy pace I have no idea what you’re talking about. Any slower than 5 mph and I’m basically just walking really fast. And even when I do that, over time my heart rate goes way up and I just pour out sweat. No matter how much I do this and for how long, it never gets “easy”. My exertion goes off the charts. I hate running but I want to finish a marathon. But the more I look at it, the less and less I think it’s possible.
Thomas here - how long have you been running, and have you tried some run/walk ? (running with walking breaks). You mentioned hills - when I've done Z2 runs I need to stop and walk up the hills to not push myself out of Z2!
@@marathonhandbook I’ve been trying to run since probably 2018 but because I always focused too much on strength training as my primary I always burn out and quit. About two years ago I started taking running seriously and last year I achieved my best results. I ran a half marathon every Sunday and a hard park 10K every Saturday. Averaging 31 miles per week before, again, crashing. Now I have a paid for plan with the Runna app, I’ve FINALLY sidelined my strength training from 6 days per week to just 3 per Runna workout recommendations. But I don’t feel like I’m getting faster or stronger or better endurance. My smart scale indicates that I’m gaining weight, but only fat not muscle as I wanted
@@marathonhandbook Thank you Thomas!!
Magic speed 4 is such an awesome shoes. I don't know why they'd received so many negative reviews from other youtubers. I'd recently switch to this shoes from the Endorphin Speed 3 which had given me ankle pain through out my speedworks. But the MS4 has been sublime, my run never felt easier and the best thing is I no longer have the injury.
This is my goal, but what should my heart rate be for the majority of the miles at the paces you suggested 8:46-9:09 min/mile?
Great review! My pair is on the way. Love the Skyward, hoping these will be at least half as fun as those. About finding running routes while traveling, Strava is great for that. I think it's a premium feature, but seeing popular running routes on trips is helpful!
Curious to eventually know what you think of the Skyflows!
Wow groundbreaking
🫡
60-70% of max hr will require me to walk or jog a little, bring hr down and resume running. Repeat. Is that ok?
Wow, I've never heard anyone else recommend Godspeed You! Black Emperor for running. I thought I was an outlier.