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Rage Racing
Приєднався 30 січ 2023
A hot rod channel for hot rod enthusiasts. I cover all kinds of awesome topics for muscle cars, race cars, motorcycles, drag racing, and so on. I deal with hot rod and racing history, engine theory, engine technical education, Harley-Davidson education, and much much more. After building engines for over 25 years and running a full time Harley speed shop for over 15 years I have accumulated a ton of knowledge I'd like to share. Want to make your car faster? I got the content you need. Want to rip down the road on your Harley? I got dyno proven proof of what works and what doesn't. Do you just like talking about and learning about cars in general? This is your one stop shop. Welcome to Rage Racing!
Build Project 1: Harley-Davidson M8 107 to 124 Part 3: Finish the Engine and Dyno Tune
Hello! In this third of three videos I take a 107 cubic inch Harley-Davidson M-8 engine in a 2018 Road Glide and install an S&S 124 cubic inch big bore pistons and cylinders as well as a big 64mm throttle body and 6.1g/s injectors. The bike already had a S&S 475 cam and D&D 2 into 1 exhaust. This video will show step by step the completion of the top end of the engine left over from video 2 and results from the DYNO!
Переглядів: 285
Відео
Build Project 1: Harley-Davidson M8 107 to 124 Part 2: Engine Assembly
Переглядів 42114 годин тому
Hello! In this second of three videos I take a 107 cubic inch Harley-Davidson M-8 engine in a 2018 Road Glide and install an S&S 124 cubic inch big bore pistons and cylinders as well as a big 64mm throttle body and 6.1g/s injectors. The bike already had a S&S 475 cam and D&D 2 into 1 exhaust. This video will show step by step the build up of the top end of the engine.
Build Project 1: Harley-Davidson M8 107 to 124 Part 1: Teardown
Переглядів 60119 годин тому
Hello! In this first of three videos I take a 107 cubic inch Harley-Davidson M-8 engine in a 2018 Road Glide and install an S&S 124 cubic inch big bore pistons and cylinders as well as a big 64mm throttle body and 6.1g/s injectors. The bike already had a S&S 475 cam and D&D 2 into 1 exhaust. This video will show step by step the tear down of the top end of the engine.
Racing Physics: Class #5. Your Cylinder Head Flow Tells Your Potential Horsepower! Cool Engine Math!
Переглядів 2,3 тис.Місяць тому
Hello Class! In this episode I talk about the Flow Bench and how it is used as well as some fun formulas for figuring your ultimate horsepower POTENTIAL based solely on the CFM of your cylinder heads and the RPM at which that power will occur based on displacement. Enjoy! Plus as a bonus if you watch to the end I tease the future of this channel and some of the content I will be posting.
Racing Physics: Class #4. Why Horsepower, not Torque, ultimately matters most.
Переглядів 4 тис.Місяць тому
In this lesson, I describe why horsepower is ultimately used to measure race engine performance instead of torque. Here I bring back the same V-Rod vs. big bore Twin Cam as an example of two extremes of the types of engines that are out there: Big inch monster torque engines with high horsepower at relatively low RPM and smaller lower torque engines making high horsepower at very high RPMs.
Racing Physics: Class #3. 790 ft/lbs Torque Harley Sportster 1200! Gear Ratios the Great Equalizer
Переглядів 4642 місяці тому
In this episode I talk about and show through multiple examples how gear ratios have a major effect on how a vehicle transmits power to the ground. I use examples of motorcycles, a hot rod, and a pickup truck. Gear multiplication is one of the most overlooked and misunderstood aspect of performance today. I hope this video helps educate you on the topic and gets you to think about not only how ...
Racing Physics: Class #2. Horsepower vs. Torque? Why do so many get this wrong?
Переглядів 8142 місяці тому
Here I try to describe the relationship between horsepower and torque in an engine with focus on high performance builds. I see so much garbage out there saying things like "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall and Torque is how far you push the wall" or some such nonsense. I also see garbage like a high horsepower engine can't make good torque and visa versa. All nonsense. I've also seen ot...
Racing Physics: Class #1, How does ignition timing work? The Basics.
Переглядів 2152 місяці тому
Racing Physics: Class 1 This is the introductory video for the Rage Racing UA-cam channel. Here I tell a relatively well-known story about how Don Garlits figured out how to get the 426 Chrysler Hemi to run in Top Fuel at its full potential in 1965. This leads into a discussion about the very basics of ignition timing. I explain with great clarity what goes on inside all engines, stock or hi-pe...
Dyno Result! 1993 Harley-Davidson FXR
Переглядів 1,9 тис.Рік тому
Dyno run and power output from a Harley-Davidson FXR 80 inch Evolution engine with very simple modifications which added substantial amounts of torque and incredible boost in power especially considering most of it is still stock. All I did was add 10 to 1 pistons, bolt-in Andrews cam, Arlen Ness air cleaner, perform some mild porting to the cylinder head, add a Thunderheader exhaust, and updat...
Had many 93 FXL set up another same. But I used an Andrews EV35. I wanted the 38, but the shop had the 35. Which has a 530 lift. I never put it on a dyno.
This was my first time using the #38. The customer had it sitting around and wanted to use it on this bike. I was impressed with the results. Usually for mild combinations with stock valve springs I like to use the #27.
Did you end up using the stock springs? Didn't see if you changed them in the last video.. also scouting to see which S&S package he got
I used the stock springs. The S&S 475 cam does well with the stock springs and that's what the customer wanted to stick with. I was actually really happy with how it ran with that cam. Not just on the dyno but real world driving on the street too. The 124" big bore kit was just the pistons, pins, rings, head gaskets, and cylinders. The S&S part number is 910-0625. The customer also brought in a screaming eagle Harley 64mm throttle body and I provided the Fueling 6.1 g/s injectors. That was it. What i did leave out of the video is I upgraded the stock clutch with heavy duty springs. They provide 15% more force to the pressure plate. Other than that the clutch was completely stock and took the power and torque just fine although I didn't attempt any drag strip launches.
Thank you very much! Basically just what I was looking for. I'm not a drag racer, I just want more power without buying a new bike. I have the equivalent power adders he has an didn't want to spend the EXTRA 1500$ on parts i already have
Awesome build but why use such mild cam (S&S 475) for a 124 cubic inch big bore kit ... I would have used a 550 or 530 lift cam for that investment ... nonetheless great job!
Thank you for the question! So, you might have missed the first video in this series. The customer already had the S&S 475 cam and D&D exhaust on his stock 107. He wanted to keep those parts if possible. He is a touring guy and added the 124 kit for the torque to pass trucks on the highway without downshifting. He is not a racer or hot rodder in any way. I was interested in the results of the smaller cam myself as I like to experiment. A lot of the times going bigger on the cam can lose low end torque to get gains higher up in the rpm range. Too big of cam and reliability goes away. As it is the S&S 475 is about the biggest you can go with the stock valve springs. As you can see from the dyno results this engine ran very well even with the "smaller" cam and, surprisingly, pulled hard all the way to redline with no drop in power. I was impressed.
Where did you get that bent intake wrench? I replaced mine but I'd like to have a wrench to check the tightness
Yost Performance Products makes those wrenches. I got mine through my Drag Specialty account. I think they are also available through V-Twin, Lowbrow customs, and TC Brothers. I don’t know the part number off hand but just type in “Yost Harley intake manifold Allen wrench”
❤ the video I been wanting to do this myself to my bike. Thank for teaching us 👍🏾👍🏾
Thank you for the nice comment. I am going to post the third and final video on this build in the next couple hours. Watch out for it.
Hi, Thanks for the information. I enjoy your videos a I just discovered your channel. About this video, you don't seem to include drive wheel diameter in your calculations for final drive ratios the engine actually sees. While the calculations tells the story of what reaches the wheel, the power is transmitted thru the tires when moving affects the final drive ratio. The taller the tire, the less gear multiplication you will have and vice versa. Can you follow up on the affects of your diameter of drive wheels in your calculations. Thanks
Yes! I actually plan on getting to that once I talk about potential G Forces of acceleration at launch and each gear. Then I will pick up where I left off and get into tire radius to the surface and actual pounds of thrust to the ground. Also, how a tire on a drag car grows changing the gear ratio seen by the engine as speed increases. I try to limit the length of my videos so many things have to be cut and put into a future video. Thank you for watching.
Please explain how to get from 12 to the 2.289 number
You didn't explain how to get from 12 to 2.289
You need a scientific calculator or the scientific function on your phone to do cubed roots. The Cubed Root of 12 is 2.289. Its part of the formula I have on the white board. Thank you for your question.
@rageracing6435 thank you
He who has the biggest pile of HP wins, not the tallest pile, the biggest pile. If torque wins, most Harley riders I see can make 300lb feet with bicycle crank, but they won’t make much hp and will lose.
One of the fastest guys I know has 30lb ft less than the class but has the ability to run more rpm and has a bigger pile of hp overall. He will tell you, figure out how to gain more rpm.
Please continue. I watched all the parts, although I have some experience, it was very interesting to watch, some things are even new to me. Thank you for your interesting videos, I'll wait for the next releases
Thank you! I got busy at the shop doing the work that actually pays the bills so I have not had a chance to post any videos in a while. Now that winter is upon us I do plan on posting a lot more. Please keep looking for new videos. There should be more coming soon.
Explained it great again. "How to increase horsepower?" You: "increase the engine size" and "head air flow" But if you have a head that is capable of 300hp with a 302. Increase the cubes to 400 you might still end up with only 300hp but....... the torque will be much greater at lower rpms. Meaning greater averages. Greater averages makes better performance. So dont look at peaks. Look at averages
Better analogy would be. Torque = strength horsepower = stamina
You explained it good. If you apply torque but no movement equals 0 hp. So you need more "TORQUE" to move something
1. Average torque is what's better. Not peaks . 2. You can't have HP without TQ 3. There is no replacement for displacement. Anything you apply to make more hp in a small engine can be applied to a big engine. 4. Hp is a calculated number that includes force applied in given time.
What is the .43 from?
That is a great question. This is not a scientific formula derived from possible BTU’s of the fuel being burned with the air or anything. This formula is a simple quick way to find real world results to be expected from head flow on a racing engine. Here is an excerpt from one of my books: “But what is the relationship between the capacity on the flow bench and the horsepower of the engine? Tests have shown that if the complete intake system air flow is measured at maximum valve lift and at a test pressure of 10” if water, a well developed racing engine will produce the following HP per cylinder: HP = .43 x (cfm at 10” water) Of course to reach this level, the engine must also have the maximum compression, the right cam, and a tuned exhaust system. In short, it must be a well-tuned racing engine.” The formula is not perfect but it does get pretty darn close. It’s useful to a head porter that if the cfm increases by 1 cfm then expected power output should be around .43 horsepower per cylinder. Keep watching and maybe I’ll get around to testing this formula with one or more of the builds I plan for this channel.
My experience has shown me that what you want is BOTH torque and horsepower working together! Example, if I have an engine that makes 550hp/435trq @ 6000rpm, and another engine with 550hp/485trq @ 6000rpm, which one is going to be faster in the 1/8 or 1/4 mile? Answer: you have no idea with that little information! What counts is OVERALL hp/trq “working together”. If engine (A) makes overall more hp/trq than engine (B), everything else being equal, engine (A) will win every time! Hp @ one rpm and trq @ another tells you absolutely nothing about where the overall performance is going to be. The most hp COMBINED with the most trq, over the entire rpm band is what wins races (in a perfect World).
You are partially correct. These are just general formulas to get you in the ballpark, but in real life situations they are pretty close. I can attest to that. Those engine power and torque numbers you quoted are impossible. Power = RPM x Torque / 5252. So, 435 torque at 6000rpm = 496 Horsepower and, 485 torque at 6000rpm = 554 Horsepower Horsepower is a direct result of Torque and RPM. Change just of those numbers and horsepower changes as well. Torque is simply a force with no energy transfer. Horsepower is actual energy transfer. That is what accelerates a car. Energy. High torque at low RPM may create so much horsepower (energy), or Low torque at very high RPM creates the same horsepower (same energy). The car will accelerate close to the same rate given optimized gear ratios and shift points because its the same energy being put into the system.
@@rageracing6435 torque is not force 🫣 its is rotwtional cofactor egzisted in axis of rotation it is proportional only to force only when leversge stsy the same 😉👌🏻 100 hp at whell at 20 m/s is 3728.6 Newtons of force at contact path at this point in time how much torq is invilved now in whell system ? 🤭🤷🏻♂️YOU DONT KNOW 👌🏻 why ? cos ypu do t know this whell radious 😎👍🏻 once ypu know whell radious now you can calculated torque in this whell axis from force let say whell have 0.1 m radious so you have 3728.6 newtosn true force x0,1 m = 372.86 newtonometres of torq now let say whell have 2 metres radious the same 100 hp at this whell at 20 m/s again 3728.6 newtons force which push this vehicle forawrd x2 m = 7457.2 netwonometres id wpthis drive whell axis now than what fell driver in both wgzaple assuming the same whole resist so weight drag inlcine test condition ? he dont feelll torque he felll only force 😎which in both egzample is egzacly the same cos power and speed is the same whereas diffrdnces in torque is more than 20 times 🤭🫣 but rider in both vehicle feeel egzacly the dame force push hees body into seat and the same egzacle accelerstion aka Gforces cos power at whell is egzacly the same at egzacly the same speed so FORCE IS EGZACLY THE SAME 😎AND NOT TORQUE COS WHELLRADIOUS IS NOT THE SAME 😎👍🏻🍿….
I appreciate the comment. I feel you should watch my other videos Racing Physics class #2 and #3. Much later I will go into how the torque to the wheel translates to true force at the ground based on diameter of the tire and available traction and expected G forces applied to the driver’s body. Thus far I have not gotten to any of that yet.
You should learn how to do your videos with voice over far superior and you can edit
Thank you. Yes I plan on getting an audio processor such as the Focusrite Scarlet and more professional microphones. Right now I just have an external microphone attached to my camera. Mostly it’s a matter of time. I’m running a business so learning to use new equipment and more time spent editing these videos isn’t in the cards just yet. I do have a decent video editing software. I just don’t use it to its full potential yet. Again, its the time.
I need to make a small correction. At minute 21 in the video I say that the larger flow benches that can draw 28” water test depression are more accurate than my smaller 10 inch unit but with a conversion factor of 1.67 the two flow benches would read the same. That is only mostly true. Higher test pressure will create higher air velocities and if there is an inefficient short side radius the air will detach from the port floor. Harley’s are known For this and even my flow bench can pick this up on the twin cam and evolution heads pretty easily. The 28” test pressure will find this symptoms earlier and easier. Also, my little flow bench is good to about 190cfm at 10” total flow. That equals 320cfm off of a 28” test pressure out of a bigger flow bench. Beyond that my flow bench struggles. So far all the Harley heads I have tested were no problem as well as small block and oval port big block heads. Big block heads flowing 400 cfm are way out of my test range. That is where the bigger flow benches are a necessity.
Awesome info, I'm just getting back into the sport. What is the rpm formula for 28 inches, thank you.
1200 / displacement x CFM
If you have a modern high flowing cylinder head this formula might be a little more accurate: 1150 / displacement x CFM These are just estimates. Intake runner length. Header length and many other things will effect actual peak power rpm but this will get you in the ballpark for an optimized race engine with optimum cam, compression, carb, ect….
Thanks, it's a 440 with 452 heads. I'm restoring a 71 challenger. Eric weingarner flow these years ago.
That is awesome!
Eric definitely does great work from the videos I’ve seen. He has way better equipment and more knowledge on that stuff than me. I hope you like my channel. I’ll eventually get to MOPAR stuff. I’m a big fan of everything MOPAR. I’ve got a 413 I plan to build. I’ve got a couple 318’s sitting around I want to make into a high rpm screamer. I’ve got a couple 360’s. And of course the 1956 Hemi in the dragster. Thank you for your comments.
Really good video!
Flowing TC or M8 heads @ 10” or less will give false results at big lifts! Need 25” + of depression to see the real story at the high lifts to show what the short turn really is doing
I’ll agree with that. I know that higher test pressures will get that floor air separation on the short side and that the Harley’s are bad with that. The heads I’ve done on my flow bench and also on a 28” flow bench were 23 degree small block Chevy and early Hemi heads and one big block Chevy and my numbers with my 10” flow bench using the 1.67 correction and they came out pretty much identical. High lifts on Harley heads may make a difference. Once you know how to attack that short side in the end if thr power is there that’s all that matters. And yes, the M-8 exhaust port is shit much beyond .250” lift. The intake I have not run into flow separation at my test pressures. But I gave only tested those to .500”
Nice job ... There is more in your flow bench manual ...look at inertia ram theory ..... I explain more about this on my UA-cam channel and how to Factor in the camshaft into hp .... Plus what all effects rpm with of course more math which i think you would like .... My channel is my name plus Cadillac because i do the Cadillac engine ..then look at playlist marked chalkboard videos..... Keep up the good work ...Scott Hatch
Thank you. I appreciate it. I will cover more of all that stuff once I get into volumetric efficiency. I’ll check out your channel.
Cool
Thanks for the explanation! I like cars and engines but I'm no expert in these things. In engineering school we were often looking at the "area under the curve" and what that represents(calculus). I have often thought about HP and torque like this, that the more area under curve the better. Gearing can manipulate this i guess by staying in the power band. This has been improving for a while in modern cars by using fuel injection and now forced induction. Not sure if you have talked about this before, but i would be interested to hear your thoughts on it.
I have not talked about this yet but I did plan on it. This would be more under the transmission topic. Close ratio vs. wide ratio. I’ll get to it eventually, but thank you for the comment. And you are right. There is LOTS of area under the curve with engines. Valve lift profiles, horsepower and torque curves, power applied to the ground. All fun stuff but I won’t be getting into calculus here. Just more simplified examples and math that get us 95% there.
And the effects of supercharging will be a whole series by itself. Much later in my planned line of videos.
@@rageracing6435 peak width determined how big diffrences between gear lenght shpuld be in regard to max performance and how much gears should be for achieve both max speed limited be all outside resist and max acceleration through whole range speed fom dead stop to topspeed 😉👌🏻🍿that bascially all ok on more stuff assuming peak width is extremely wide like in some tdi engine but in motorcycle egzample so let say from 6 to 9 k rpm flat 100 hp peak than also must be take into considerstion 2 stuffhow long it takes engie. go down to 6 k rpm on upshift at 9 k rpm assuming we want make upshifts losess to minimum so bigest diffrences in regard to this factor pisbble but not so big to fell of peak power band 👌🏻 and how much force gear teeth can take before failure cos the biger diffencesbetween gear lenght and the slower engine lost rpm the more force take gear teeth cos diffrencess between teth speed than are bigest = bigest force = bigest damage 👌🏻thats why often in motorcycle ypu found 2 gear felll of while hard accelerstion cos from 1 to 2 is bigest diffrences usually thats why in such circumstances often must be choice lil less extreme doffrences between gear enght like 7-9 and not full 6-9 asf …. 😎👌🏻🍿
the reason one ran 11.34 and the other 11.54 is that power band is different between the 2. power band is defined as peak torque to peak hp. high rpm is 112.2 hp to 123 hp. the low rpm is 103.3 hp to 121 hp. you can see that every gear change that it falls back to peak torque (calculated hp at that rpm) and that is where the difference is.
Very good! Also the v-rod example launched off the line a little quicker according to the simulator which would explain some of the time difference but still have nearly the same mph.
yes power band can be diffrent but its not defined as peak torq to peak power 👌🏻 welll in some egzample can be but power band is defined as most avg power period some engine feg have very small power at peak torq rpm and beyond peak power rpm power drop very slowly hold strong to much higher rpm than peak power rpm in such egzample ypu must spin engine higher than peak power rpm and when ypu ups rpm start from much higher rpm thanpeak torq rpm such gzample can be 🤔 i do t know what now on fast but let say something like hornet 900 which have peak torq at 6500 rpm and peak power st 9000 rpm os rpm limiter probabaly at 10500 rpm os and for fastest acceleration in hornet 900 ypu are always much higher on rpm than peak tprq 6500 rpm at bigesst diffrences betweeen gear lenght so from 1 to 2 gear obviously in h900 when ypu accelerste as fast as posibble and ups at 10 k rpm starting rpm start at 8 k rpm +/- faaaaar from 6,5 k rpm peak torq 😎👌🏻 dont check how precisellly is in this egzample with vrod and this other 117 inch h-d just saying that pesk power band is not defined as peak torq to peak power it can be in some egzample but its defentiellly not stifff regule it depend how rwpidly power increase bfore peak hp where on rpm is peak tprq how big peak torq is so inresults how much hp it generate at rpm where it is in regard to peak power level 👌🏻 and how rapidly power decrease above peak hp rpm - what we want in race is as much avg power as posiiblle and this often dosent match good with peak torq to peak power rpm but sometimes can it reallly dosent matter you achieve avg 100 hp from biger torq at lower rpm or from biger rpm at lower torq 100 hp=100 hp and those two setup will go head to head cos in race otherwise thannooob story say its not how power is delivery 🤭🫣 but its all about POWER LEVEL 👌🏻🍿
@@rageracing6435 why ? usuallly more torq engine on lower rpm is atleast not slower at launch and always easier to launch so or this simulator have some error or vrod weight distribution have better for faster launch = put more power to the ground without slide 👌🏻🍿
I input the whole engine output curves from actual dyno testing into the simulator. And you are correct during the simulated test just as in real life the engine rpm does not dip to reach peak torque if I remember right. It depends on the engine combination. Some like to get into peak torque area. Others like to stay above.
It is just a simulation so I would not be surprised if there is an error but the point I was trying to make is still there. As for big torque engine always being easier to launch, I take exception to that statement. High rpm engines can often put more torque to the ground with proper gear ratios plus there is more stored energy in the flywheel when the clutch is released. A lower rpm torque engine dies have a much wider range for errors during the launch. If things aren’t perfect the torque will pull you through it where a peaky high rpm engine could bog if not launched correctly. In either case when high horsepower is involved clutch management and traction are key to launching.
Quit smacking 😮
Watch for the next video, Racing Physics Class #6 which will go into an introduction into Volumetric Efficiency, how to increase it, and what the benefits are.
I know this is a long one at 39 minutes. Normally I would keep these types of videos 15-30 minutes, but I encourage you to watch to the end. The end of this video teases a few upcoming projects I plan to film and post on UA-cam. Also, I tell of more things I plan to do with this channel beyond the classroom style teaching videos I have posted so far. In short, I plan to expand this channel into many areas of automotive interests.
Torque matters. You can not have hp without torque. Hp is torque x rpm ÷5252. So how does torque does not matter? Your premise is flawed. Then again, when you start using a Vrod for example......
Yes, Exactly. Watch my other videos that explain exactly that. This is the continuation of a series I am doing.
A good example, but one that may be hard for some to relate to- 2 similar airplanes..piper Navajo: two 540cid piston engines, 350hp/700lb-ft each... Piper Cheyenne=close to same aircraft, but with two turboprop engines, 500hp each, but only around 100 lb-ft. The constant speed (varying blade pitch) propellers allow each to operate at the optimal engine rpm. In other words- the "transmission" lets the engine's full power be used.. The result? Even though somewhat heavier, the turboprop cheyenne pretty much will waste the Navajo in any measurement of performance...acceleration, climb rate, speed, etc. Drag racing is a tricky comparison because of the difficulties of getting power to the ground..sometimes a "torquey" engine is easier to get off the line, or may have a broader spread of power, making average power delivered over the 1/4 mile higher, despite a lower peak power..these things are shortcomings of the transmission and traction, NOT proof that "torque matters and HP is theoretical" or any other BS like that. Horsepower IS a measurement of the rate an engine can do work, torque is not. A 5 gallon bucket full of water hung from the end of a 2x4x8 makes more torque at the other end than either the Vrod, or the big inch engine...but won't get you very far. That e.t. formula is cool- pretty close for my cars and motorcycles. For the "torque" crowd...have you raced a torque rich fairly stock H-D against a "gutless" 600 sport bike with 1/3 or less the torque? If you won, it was by surprise. Not that I'm a big 600 fan, but they are generally almost 120 crankshaft hp, and not slow.
yea except last egzample which isint so good as lack of knowledge people always can say but h-d is heavier 👌🏻😎 in fact its not only heavier but as well have biger drag and lil biger drive train losess than avg ss600 class 😉👌🏻 but assuming we put ss600 engine in h-d frame + conect it woth perfect gearing which include 1 gear lenght in regard to whole new biger resist so obviously 1 gear instead of hit 110-120 km/h on rpm limiter 15-16 k rpm os must be setup more like on 70-80 km/h on rpm limiter or even shorter for achieve grip border at launch 80 at 15 k rpm be good for 400 kg with rider for feg gsxr 600 engine which have 67 nm at 11500 rpm what mean 61 km/h whatmean lil over 400 kg force at tire =around 1 G should be enough for road tire stock weoght distribution asf 👌🏻 + perfect gears quantity and diffrences between gear lenght for maintain rpm closest to pesk power rpm through whole race distance it will 100% smoked in drsg race stock h-d torque rich version with weaker topend like millwoky eight 107 feg or even 114 which have 155 nm 92 hp crank vs ss600 67 nm 120 hp crank 👌🏻🍿though dont know who from customers would like to have more ss600 stock engine in fatbob114 🤭 defenitelly not me 👌🏻 but yea assuming this setup which im subscribe in drag race no chance for 107or 114 👌🏻🍿
More horsepower=more torque. Torque is just static number that has no meaning, horsepower is real. Mr Watt measured horsepower , not torque.
Yes. You are correct. Just as I spoke about in the Racing Class #2
Repeat after me. "It is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of *gearing*." :-)
Exactly. I think you would like my other videos where I talk about exactly that.
Good information thank you 👍👍👍👍
Thank you for the comment!
The best explanation of hp vs tq is by a you tuber.. Torqe is how hard you punch the bag. Hp is how fast you can punch. Lol... im sure its not perfect but its better than most..haha Great video
Thank you!
Torque to accelerate, hp to maintain or recover rpm. Racing of all forms proves that to be true. Why 18 wheelers us massive Torque, circle track depends on HP, and tractor pulls need both. A big block with same HP will win over a equal small block.
Brett Lasalas Coyote Mustang proves otherwise. His 3,000 hp tt Coyote Mustang beat the BB pro mods this spring @ Sick Week winning overall and setting the radial drag and drive world record. He was quicker and faster than any BB making similar hp.
it dosent work like this feg 1/4 mille drag race is all about acceleration right or not ? 😉 offcorse it is vehicle which will accelerste faster through those distsnce will win race 👌🏻 so if you write torque is accelerstion than feg 🤔👉🏻 h-d fat bob 114 which have 155 nm at crank from 1868cc dispalcement with stroke 114 mm should beat vrod which have only 120 nm from 1247 cc stroke 72 mm 👌🏻 both weight the same around 310 kg but… its vrod which beat fatbob over quartermille distance 😉👌🏻 why ? cos vrod have much better topend power 👌🏻 120-125 hp depend on version vs fat bob stock is 92 hp ,vrod have much worse lowend cos it have at low rpm much less hp/nm than fat bob but in racing for max acceleration as long as each version will have perfect or close to perfect gearing topend power win all the way on accelerstion in each posible scenario like take ofcorner as long as thers enough grip or on straight from stop or roll , fat bob 114 in best attempt can do 12,8-12,9 sec at around 100 mph terminal speed (with typical size weoght rider of such bikeit probably be unable to go under 13 sec et 👌🏻) vs vrod 11,6-11,7 sec at 115-118 mph in drag racing world thats significant diffrences at finish line vrod be like 20 lenght of bike ahead 👌🏻🍿
@@chadkent1241 please don't compare sick week contenders. No matter how you spin it. Those vehicles are like playing Russian rullet. Go or go boom.
More air in = more good out. Both low end torque and high end horsepower. I haven't raced in forever but always love tinkering with whatever I have and discovered that no matter what, more air makes a better running engine and more smiles per gallon.
I believe what you are saying. If you look at many racing disciplines, they have been turning higher & higher RPM until they have reached a ceiling of costs/reliability, then guy's just started making larger displacement engines. But, getting an engine to make power at 10K + RPM takes a lot, first and foremost, a cylinder head that can flow the required air. The cylinder head & induction package is the single biggest limiting factor in turning higher RPM. If the head chokes @7500 RPM, a bigger cam won't help etc. Great info.Thank you.
Thank you. So far these videos I’ve made have been just a warm up to deeper understanding of the engine. I’m not breaking new ground by any means. Just sharing what I’ve learned.
I would argue that we cant make horsepower and that torque is the only thing that matters because its the only thing we can make. horse power is only a calculated value based on how much torque you produce and how long it takes to produce said torque. in order to calculate more horse power we need to produce more torque or take less time to produce the same torque. if you increase air flow by changing heads or cams or forced whatever.... you will make more torque and also calculate a higher HP number. Same if you shorten the time it takes...ie more rpm you will also calculate more HP. torque is the twisting force that makes the wheels turn, no torque..no turn..lol. ultimately you want as much torque as you can make without breaking stuff and produce it as quickly as you can this will calculate the highest HP numbers... sooo the highest rpm at the highest torque is the fastest because it does the most work... no need to calculate horse power..lol
Exactly. I covered just that idea in my Racing Physics Class #2 video.
Sweet as mate.. I'll give it a watch when I get home. Cheers.
torque the only thing we can make 🤐🫣 but torque come from crank throw and avg force work on piston roof so maybe only think we can make is force or crank throw or maybe rpm is the only thing we canmake ? 🤐 but wait force is efect of „explosion in combustion chamber airfuell mixture so maybe the only thing e can make is ignition of this mixture or the only thing ee can make is ….asf welll whatver ypu want to explain this topic to yourself fact is that feg yamaha mt03 42 hp 29 nm 100% beat at drsgstrip royal enfield continental 535 gt 29 hp 44 nm assuming we leveled diffrences in weight (535 gt is 20 kg os heavier) be heavier 20 kg +/- driver on mt03 👌🏻 also fact is that vrod 125 hp 125 nm beat on quarter mill fatbob 114 92 hp 155 nm and feg derestricted zx4 rr 39 nm 77 hp beat me cb 500 pc26 47 nm 57 hp at wwuartermille be a mille 😉👌🏻🍿 so whatever ypu want explain this to ypurself more power full engine with less peak tprq at perfect gearing always smoked in racing dosent matter at straight or with corners engine woth less power and more torque 👍🏻so power defentielly mean something i quees 😉👌🏻🍿
@mociczyczki correct, sir.. if I read that correctly. Torque is a result of the work done in the combustion chamber, so fuel and ignition must be correct. Crank throw, and that counts for sure. Power does count... big time. But it's a calculated number based on torque and rpm. It tells how much work an engine is doing. If you make more power you will go faster for sure, all else been equal. How do we have more power.... we make more torque or push said torque higher in the rpm range so we can do more work per minute. Ultimately we are all chasing more power(I think.) .. but it's torque and rpm that get us there. My wrx makes 900 plus horsepower at 9250ish rpm. My friends wrx makes 775hp , but he makes more torque. I mostly always win in quater mile... except when I change from first to forth..haha..
@@gfarnden56 power how much work per unit of time can be done 😉👌🏻 that explain everything engine are makes for generate enough power for specified aplication if engine will not make enough power it will not make work enough efficient /on time aircraft without enough power in specified weather circumstances will drop down 😉👌🏻 or packageon big truck will travel 1 week on 100 km trip on highway with 10 hp os dosent matter how big torq it would have or how big rpm engine will spin /on how high rpm it be work woth shortest gearing ever ot will tow those package like 🐌 as long as it will not generwted enpugh power 👌🏻 how it produce it exluding economical reasons and or in regard to hobby as bikes asf excluding preferention specifieed customer it dosent matter as long as goal is only PACE in which specified work must be done on racetrack or road whatever 👌🏻 once we go into preferention region and economical reliability racing regulations asf at this point alll many resons start matter 👌🏻 but its power which makes work done in required time frame not torque or gearing or rpm .imagine moto gp bikewith 1 mln nm at engine crank but 1 hp max 🤭it be double be 275 hp 120 nm avg moto gp bike on first circle 🤭👌🏻 or imagine 1 mln rpm the same moto gp bike with shortest gearing posiible also with 1 hp the same story it be double on forst circle 🤭👌🏻 imagine 1 mln nm 1 hp truck engine it be so slow that avg 100 years old pedestrians walk with 2-3 km/h will overtake it like chiron at full speed on autobahn donkey with trailer 🤭👌🏻 the same truck with 1 mln rpm engine (when i write 1 mln rpm i mean thers pewk power 👌🏻) with 1 hp with supershort final gear ratio the same story 👌🏻 avg egzisted engine truck with let say 2500 nm only and 400 hp or 3000 nm 500 hp whatever they got there somewhere sround those numbers anyways will make from it windmill 🤭👌🏻another good egzample is 100 kg person on bicycle with pedal throw from axis of rotstion 0,2 m let say how much torq he can genersted ? 100x9,81 x0,2 m almost 200 nm including dynamique push wpfrom legs even more but let assume this 200 nm vs feg me cb 500 with 47 nm max at crank at quarter mille 🤐 this person on bicycle with 200 nm or even more when push max dynamique on pedal while try accelerste as fast as posible will have 0 chance in drag race against any avg bike dosent matter how he be operate gears how many he wpuld have those gear and how they will be geared with 1-2 hp peak power he be on like 100 metres os while feg me cb cros finish line at 400 m around 👌🏻 basically such oerson on such bicycle csn in short burst generste more tprque than new rocket 3 at crank 👌🏻🤷🏻♂️🤭 and its like 3 times lighter with bicycle than rocket 3 but can he beat rocket 3 in any typical performance test at straight ? NO-not even close 👌🏻 …. so theme is prety simple thers not enough power? thers 💩 😁👍🏻🍿
Its not the brightest idea to use More RPM ......more friction.
you sure mate? im thinking you are gonna have a hard time explaining that to the f1 car and bike engineers. Also top fuel and almost any other high power engine all rev to the moon
@gfarnden56 F1 and Top Fuel ? In the real World....forget about high rpm for making HP. Please remember....when Alonso won the F1 championship....his Renault engine went to 18,000 rpm.......2000 rpm less than The Schumacher Engine..... Less RPM....less Friction.....less HEAT........ LESS RPM is cheaper,better and faster. Torque is the ability to do work. Power is WORK done in a given time. Power doesn't exist....it's a CALCULATION Using More RPM to make HP......is actually a mistake... . Never saw YOU at the Seminar....'hiw to make HP'....
You are right. More RPM does mean more friction. But more RPM also can use higher intake velocities with proper intake, heads, and so on to ram more air into an engine increasing volumetric efficiency well beyond 100%. It’s a matter of diminishing returns as to when friction finally wins out. I’ll cover those concepts in future videos.
@@rageracing6435 more rpm....costs more money....pointless.
I respectfully disagree, but if you found a combination that gets you down the race track that you are happy with then keep doing what works for you. That’s the cool thing about motor sports is the variety of ideas put into practice.
One thing that people fail to consider when making the comparison between these two types of engines is, the higher rpm less torque engine will get a lower gear ratio to get the revs up there and at the same time the lower gear ratio multiplies the torque more than the higher ratio. That is also the reason for possible same ET's. It's not rocket science.
It's more like "sprocket science"!
im with you mate.. i also noticed you explained gearing and ratios quite well and never mentioned horse power, only torque and rpm...lol.
@@gfarnden56 Just to be clear I only mentioned torque and RPM because the 2 engines compared in video were close to same HP. I'm kinda in the happy middle ground as I find engines have a tendency to eventually get chewed up with to much RPM, but the engines with too much stroke create a lot of friction, not to mention needing heavy metal to balance more likely. I do tons of machine work for racers and I've seen it all. I just have a 600 hp engine in my car and it keeps on running and I have lots of fun. I will say it's great watching the really fast cars tho.
What type of car do u have?... I have a 900whp wrx... its great fun.
@@gfarnden56 82 Camaro 355 SBC. It's all the fun I need. Many of my clients I do their machine work on are in the 1500 to 2000 hp at the flywheel.
yea this formula is very close to real value for bike times fix very well speed turn out lil to high for me cb 500 it show 13,4 sec /102 mph me real world messurement 13,4 /97 mph in both dorection on flat tarmac no wind so very close for sv it show 12,3 / 111 mph vs real world data 12,3 /107 mph again time perfect vs speed lil exagerrsted cb i never was able to cross 100 mph in quarter mille 👌🏻but its for bike where cofsctor must be on 2,22 level +/- but it would depend on drag to weight to power level to gearing and peak width unless somebody know precise avg power in regard to oesk width and doffrences between gear lenght but in some cases from peak measured on dyno 100 hp can be avg use 70 hp cos peak be very thin feg and diffrences very big in somebascially all 100 hp can be use for accelerstion avg through whole distsnce at whell 👌🏻 so yea in some cases such cslculator can be waaay offf and in some very precise close to real test data 👌🏻🍿feg never seen stock vrod cross 120 mph typicall terminal speed is 116-117 mph in best run 👌🏻🍿cycleworld clock stock vrod 107 whp 11,86s/115,19mph .probably not race prep surface but terminal speed be prettymuch the same as on drsgstrip 👌🏻 with 50 kg rider in full race suit maybe be able to cross 120 mph so depending on what you plot in calculation but anyways comapre to real world data at the same whole weight rider + bike for vrod cofactor 234 is slightly off for naked bike and cruiser withput low drag 220-225 be right bullpark👌🏻for sportbike with cda 0,3-0,35 234 is correct 👌🏻🍿
mostly correct though not everything 👌🏻🍿 feg your car egzample with reduction x1,5 if it would have flat wide enough peak power and in stock form enough „everyhing” for go on limit of grip at launch ypur x1,5 times shorter final gear ratio will make it only slower as ypu will nedd to ups 1 times more before cors 1/4 mile finish line so such use less avg power so such „ggreat ewualizier „as you call gear ratios dont give you better acceleration at lower power no matter how you setup gearing cos what ypu miss here is SPEEED factor cos in racing we consider SET SPEED range accelerstion and not set gear cos nobody cares of somebdoy os at 100 km/h at 1 or 6 gear right ? what wr care is who win race thats makes diffrences 😉👌🏻🍿 …..atleast in next video ypu go directly into goal = topend power beat lowend torq at drag strip at perfect gearing each and the reason is so simple as this equation 👉🏻 power:speed= force👌🏻👉🏻 dosent matter what ypu do with gearing and how much more crank engine tprq ypurengine will have as long as ypu will use less avg power for accelerwtion at set distance of race YPU LOST 👍🏻🍿
Hey man why didn’t you use accel ho coil instead?🥸
Why don’t any dyno machines show 790-11,000 ftlbs 🤪 on paper my car makes 4200 ftlbs torque “to the wheel”
Thanks for the comment and that is actually an excellent question I've been waiting for. For one reason the chassis dyno always measures horsepower. It takes a transfer of energy to accelerate a heavy mass up to speed. That energy is horsepower and the heavy mass is the dyno drum. The dyno does not measure torque directly. The Chassis Dyno calculates Torque at the engine. The dyno computer keeps track of how quickly the drum is accelerating and calculates how much horsepower is being delivered to make that acceleration. The dyno computer also reads engine RPM while accelerating the drum. The mathematical formula for finding Horsepower is (Torque X RPM) / 5252. Just the same the mathematical formula to find Torque is (Horsepower x 5252) / RPM. The dyno computer knowing the horsepower being put into accelerating the drum and reading the engine RPM at the same time does the calculation and shows you your torque output at the engine. Not at the wheel. If you run a car or bike or anything on a dyno whether you run in 1st gear, 2nd gear, 3rd gear or any possible gear you will always get the same result for horsepower and torque (minus things like frictional drag and differences in accelerating your own drive line). Try it. But you know 1st gear accelerates faster than 5th right? So what is going on? The chassis Dyno directly measures Horsepower. Your engine always makes the same horsepower no matter what gear you are in. The chassis dyno reflects this. Torque = (Horsepower x 5252) / RPM . As you run on a chassis dyno in 1st gear you have tremendous amounts of torque going to the wheel and the dyno drum because of the torque multiplication of your 1st gear. Thats why its easy to spin the tire on the drum and you can really get that drum moving fast as your engine hits redline super quick. Now go up to 5th gear and make a run. Now your tires are going a lot faster. The drum is spinning a lot faster but it takes a much longer time to rev out the engine. You are putting much less torque at the rear wheel because of the lack of torque multiplication from being in 5th gear but since the drum's (and your tire's) rpm is much faster using the above formula the Torque calculated at the engine is still the same. I recommend watching my other video about Torque vs. Horsepower. As an interesting side note. A engine dynamometer directly reads torque and uses the same calculation above to figure horsepower. So its exactly the opposite than a chassis dyno. I hope this answered your question.
Check out my next video "Racing Physics Class #3: Gearing, The Great Equalizer!" to see how these two vastly different engines fare against each other face to face in identical motorcycles simulated in a drag racing analyzer. The only difference between the two simulated programs is the engine output specifications for each engine, the final drive gearing, and the shift point rpms. Everything else being exactly equal. Which do you think would win in a drag race? The big engine with 121 HP / 118 Tq or the small engine with 123 HP / 82 Tq?
@@rageracing6435 odd... I'm busy doing the ratios in my gearbox..lol.. I'll watch it for sure.
whats the weight difference between the 2 units?
@@Bristolcentaurus The weights of the two motorcycles in the example ran through the drag racing simulation program was identical. If i remember correctly the total weight was 825 pounds representing a 650 pound motorcycle and a 175 pound rider.
Isn't that 790 ft/lbs of torque if and only if the tire was the same size as the sprocket? I'm pretty sure you have to calculate the moment arm (distance from the sprocket where the torque is applied by the engine to the tire where the torque is measured).
The length of arm is compensated within the unit ft lbs.
@f.f.s.d.o.a.7294 only if you are applying the force from the end. Like if the force is being applied at the tire. The force is being applied from the sprocket and being measure a distance away from thr sprocket and therefore would be less.
torque is not measured it is calculated 😉👌🏻 from force and arm lenght ,torque egzist only in axis of rotation when he calculated torque from gear reduction it directly calculated torque ypu dont need tocslculated anything else 👌🏻 what he dont take i to considerstion is drive train losess ,but thats diffrent story .
Physicist here. It's nice to hear someone get it right. There is so much nonsense written about torque. The funniest is car magazines that list "torque at the rear wheel" as the engine crankshaft torque times 80% (or whatever they assume for the driveline efficiency). That works for power but betrays their lack of any understanding of what torque actually is.
Thank you for the comment! What got me through my Highschool and college Physics classes was mentally applying everything I was learning to drag racing my car. Thats the red Camaro from the video. Growing up as a gear head and having a basic understanding of what was going on in automotive applications sure made those classes much more entertaining and easier to pick up.
You might wonder why I used Torque as the unit of measurement going through these examples rather than Horsepower. The reason is Horsepower remains the same going through the gears. Horsepower is Torque x RPM divided by 5252 so as the Torque is multiplied the RPM goes down by the same multiplier. Therefore the Horsepower remains the same. Horsepower is a unit of energy. The energy always remains the same. Torque is a unit of force. The force can be multiplied but the overall energy going through the system will be the same from its source (minus small frictional losses of course).
😂😂😂😂😂😂Making lots of noise and going slow! V Rods forever!
I have modified and tuned V-rods as well. I like V-rods. But by far not the fastest things I’ve built that was American made. Keep watching. I plan to resurrect this channel soon. Put some good content on it.
@@rageracing6435 do a turbo v rod project bike from scratch…or anything turbo from scratch!
Ive got some knowledge on turbos. I don’t like them on v-twins. What I do like and have experience building is v-8 roots style supercharger engines. If I had to build a v-rod turbo engine I would convert it to methanol to take advantage of the compression of the v-rod engine and cooling properties of the fuel so no intercooler would be needed then I would run boost to around 25psi to 30psi. Power at that point would enough to shatter the clutch basket and probably any part of the transmission and probably the bottom end (but I could be wrong). My feeling is if the Destroyer can run in the 8’s with naturally aspirated then the turbo is not needed.
Hell Yea💪