Відео

@@jamiedoesstuff4877 Nice, I've got maybe 10 or 15 Conner drives and about 2/3rds of them are junk as in they don't work at all

Huh? What do you mean?

TOO MUCH SECTOR NOT FOUND

This drive is physically damaged.

Yes, this drive has extreme translation without ZBR, which causes a problem with HDmotion.

A lot of these old voice coil drives are dying off lately, it's just their nature.

@@TheDiskMaster It has not worked in 15 years. I have lost a lot of 500MB or smaller voice coil drives mostly from media failure. Had to put a CF card as a secondary on my 386. Oddly I have more surviving MFM drives much like you.

@@matthewsvideos8235 I see. Yes, the older stepper drives are much more robust and tend to be much more fault tolerant.

@@Michael.Chapman Hmm, mine has never shaken the desk, that's for sure. Not enough mass on the head stack and not fast enough. I always thought they sounded like shaking a jar of glass shards during fast random seeks. Definitely, the MS-III was not Miniscribe's best effort, and it arguably did more damage than good. The MS-VII which only just barely made it to market was the true saving grace and had the potential to carry them into the future.

@@Michael.Chapman They weren't particularly revolutionary in '90, but for Miniscribe they were almost a decade ahead of anything else they were selling. It would have kept the company afloat, and the design clearly served Maxtor well after the buyout. The 8051A is definitely not their first IDE offering, since the 8212/8425/8450 all had IDE options, albeit uncommon, in both 8- and 16-bit configurations (suffix X and A respectively). Personally, I'm not a huge fan of voice coil drives, they all sort of sound the same to me.

@@TheDiskMaster I overlooked the IDE steppers... My first drive was an MFM 5.25 in HH Miniscribe 3053, 3 big platters and a rotary VC. Large, heavy, beautifully cast, I still have it. Those were the days, when you could easily hear its 25 ms VCM operating. It made some wonderful, refined sounds and no attempts to hide them--a sad day when Auto Accoustic Management was introduced. Am re-writing a 4GB Hitachi Microdrive ATM--polar opposite of the 3053 :-)

Yep, performance drives like the 3053 and most other voice coil drives of the era made no attempt at all to be quiet, since they were fully focused on being as fast and reliable as possible. This was mostly because those drives were unbelievably expensive new and typically went into high end workstations!

@@maxtornogood weird, wonder why the labels look this way. Mine was junk when I got it, worked for a few hours on the day I recorded, and has since gone back to being junk

@@MyComputerStudios_ that's because they aren't

@@antequated.archive I don't think it could be said that they botched the contract so much as IBM's customers were tougher on their machines than imagined. Much of the problems with this drive came from head crashes caused by customers hitting or jerking their machines! I've had extremely good luck with even particularly beat up CMI drives, so they probably weren't as bad as advertised.

⁠@@TheDiskMasterWow I didn’t know that! You’d think people would be a bit more gentle with their expensive new PC lol. Hopefully I can get one at some point.

​@@antequated.archiveA PC or a CMI CM-6426-S? Both are pretty common on eBay for good prices.

@@TheDiskMaster I was referring to the drive, but I would also love an IBM PC. Did the prices go down recently? Last I checked, both were rare and expensive on there.(Unless 300 for only the PC is considered a good deal).

​@@antequated.archiveWell, if you want a real IBM AT, you're probably going to pay around 200 for an untested one and around 300 for a known good one. More for boxed or depending on configuration, obviously. If you don't mind a clone, about $100 is where most of them hover these days. The CMI CM-6426, I've seen go for as low as $20 on eBay for a parts unit. There's one listed right now for like 50, which is at least complete. That's a pretty reasonable deal, I think.

@@maxtornogood that's because this is a bug in HDmotion regarding extreme sector translation, not bad sectors

@@MyComputerStudios_ Yep! I've got one more Miniscribe branded unit to show, too. No, the media is fine, HDMotion does not work correctly with some drives that have extreme sector translation as shown here.

​@@TheDiskMasterWeird, Arnold's Maxtor branded unit does hdmotion just fine

@@MyComputerStudios_ He is probably not running it in translation mode like I am

@@MyComputerStudios_ Mine is a 7040 though. Altough I must admit I have never had that issue with any of my drives, and so much sector not found not making HDMotion run super slow is interesting.

​@@arnlolI've got a Miniscribe 7040AT as well, but it's dead.

Indeed, and all just for a sticker! The Maxtor version is absolutely identical in every way.

@@TheDiskMaster right, has lovely sounding bearings too.

​@@thegeforce6625Yep. I'm glad to have this and a 7040AT in my collection. The label is admittedly pretty sweet, and it's a crucial but often forgotten piece of hard drive history!

@@thegeforce6625My own 7080AT (QA sticker 6 Oct 1990-by “Maxtor Colorado”) seems healthy, but it’s got some bearing noise too. High prices are asked for quality 40 to 80 MB vintage drives… they’re scarce, great fun, historic curiosities-but not in the same price league as a modern 20 TB drive that can actually be put to work :-)

@@Michael.Chapman I definitely have not paid anything approximating a modern 20TB drive for these! The 7080 and 7040 combined probably cost me under a hundred USD, including shipping. I would not call these "quality" 40MB drives, just like the Maxtor version, these are prone to failure. An extremely modern design, for sure, but not reliable.

@@FalconFour really? Surprised UA-cam would ever push one of my videos like that! Yeah, this is a series of benchmarking and testing tools I have compiled over the years that make interesting, albeit synthetic, benchmarks and seek patterns. LBA did not exist at the time. The translated geometry has 8 heads so I'm guessing it wraps around in the middle of the drive.

Something like that

@@KliaTech neat

@@bobjoe2827 interesting! Since mine works so well, I have been hesitant to open it. Do you have photos you would be willing to share? Yeah, Arnold has his biography (autobiography?) and had brought this up. Such a strange story.

@@TheDiskMaster I wouldn't recommend opening it unless you know how to re-silver/reproduce the labels and maintain the alignment of the lid (that magnet in the lid makes it hard to keep the lid aligned as there are no "keeper pins" to help with this). I did take photos of the unit apart; I will send them your way today.

​@@bobjoe2827thanks much!

Yes, the TM362 was not known for it's performance

@@Radovanslav Yes indeed. I believe this was the only direct competition for the Bigfoot.

Neat. I borrowed one of those emulators briefly to image some drives for someone documenting the Convergent AWS workstations. I don't really enjoy its user interface, though.

@@windisk1112 I'm not sure I understand

@@TheDiskMaster it's just a silly joke : )

​@@windisk1112ok

Interestingly, they were engineered by the same person. I have a nearly complete lineup of every product Kalok ever sold, and a majority of them are working. I have a few dozen ST-251s and maybe like 5 of them work.

I've played around with one of these motors, out of a dead ST-157A in my case - they're interesting to spin by hand, they don't have the same feeling as more conventional steppers do when you turn them.

@@aprilkolwey4779 Yes, the detent effect is lesser.

@@douro20 I wouldn't say these had a performance edge at all, let alone enormous. There were dozens of drives which matched these performance numbers, and often were more reliable. This drive is well liked because it was extremely low cost and made by a "reputable" manufacturer, meaning this got OEM'd into everything everywhere and is one of the most common trash drives you can still pick up to this day.

@@thegeforce6625 What do you mean? It's about on par with most of the midrange drives of it's era.

@@TheDiskMasterwhat I mean is it’s pretty fast for a stepper motor drive.

@@thegeforce6625 Yeah, it's performance is about on par with it's competition. Not particularly fast.

The figures attained here are better than the ST-251-1's specified 28ms random seek, but I don't know if that's within normal variance for it.

@@Kali_Krause I do not know. My testing has showed no appreciable difference between any of them.

@@longrunner258 I find the specs listed are almost universally wrong for every drive.

The first disk on the primary controller is always 0x80. The second disk on the primary controller is 81, and so on. This sounds like you have a hardware incompatibility. Lots of these drives are still working. They are entirely mechanical in nature, there is very little in the way of digital electronics on this unit. Think of it less like a modern hard drive and more like a really fast floppy drive.

@@bobjoe2827 I have no real reason to bother. I've got a stack of about 50 of these 200 series drives laying around and just grabbed the first one that took a format to demo.

Thanks, these early Medalists are some of my favorite IDE drives.

@@TheDiskMaster will we get some more like that?

​@@engineer359Eventually, yes. This was the first IDE drive I recorded, to make sure the setup worked for IDE stuff before recording the Daeyoung DX-3120A for Arnold.

@@TheDiskMaster nice, that will be great to watch

​@@engineer359That video went live in like, January.

This was actually the first video I recorded with the IDE setup - I was rushing to get it set up before Arnold's Daeyoung drive arrived. I wanted to make sure the setup worked and produced good video before recording such a rare drive.

What do you mean other names?

@@Kali_Krause These drives have no track 0 sensor.

@@arnlol Indeed, I think these drives do not necessarily require them.

@@MyComputerStudios_ Eh about half of my 2 dozen are bad so I'm not so sure about that

I have a ST-251-1 that some computer recycler tried to wreak by removing the cover and ripping a head off. Despite all the damage to the surface I can still get the drive to load an OS and do other test to demonstrate the movements of the drive. I do also have two others that are in good shape.

@@matthewsvideos8235 That's moreso a characteristic of the wildly resilient interface and controllers than the drive itself.

@@Michael.Chapman That being said, Miniscribe did not sell them as RLL certified, and because of their oxide media, they are not approved for use with ARLL controllers like the PerStor PS200. I don't know if I'd call a generic voice coil sound "refined" so much as "boring."

@@TheDiskMaster in the mid-1980s it was a great thing to experience-compared to a boring 5.25 inch floppy drive or a crude Seagate stepper. I can’t remember RLL’ing a ‘certified’ drive. I think I used a Western Digital RLL controller. Luckily, within not too many years Miniscribe and Conner IDE came along, so no more LLFs or defect tables to worry about and I could easily daisy-chain.

Yeah, it's a shame everything went to IDE so soon. The "Crude" Seagate steppers were about on part with this high end voice coil drive in terms of performance but far exceeded it in reliability. Not to mention their much lower cost for the same capacity made them a much better prospect.

@@Mathmos252 not the worst price for a 3650 I don't think

@@Nikki-2981 Ouch! Wish you hadn't scrapped it, the TL-340 is a drive I have desperately wanted to get a hold of for years, even broken! I would have absolutely loved to have had it, even just for parts. What a shame. Was there any appreciable difference between it and the TL-226 you see here, other than 20MB vs 30MB (4 vs 6 heads)?

@@TheDiskMaster sounded way different. i took a recording with my cellphone of it with the cover off before getting rid of it though. kind of a shame, totally would have sent it to you if i kept it

​@@Nikki-2981I see. Did you upload it anywhere? I'd love to see! Maybe send it in the Discord?

@@francoisfritz198 Yep, I have several of these drives and for the most part they all work. They're tough little suckers.

@@HTMLEXP I see, I did not know that. Interesting!

@@VonAggelby huh? What do you mean

@@CaelThunderwing IDESDI is not affected by the health of the drive, it relies on an odd set of heuristics based on information the controller provides about the current drive status. HDmotion is just picking up bad sectors.

Totally wrong. The drive is fine. Some bad blocks sure.

​@@timradde4328This.

@@maxtornogood As I have previously mentioned, IDESDI is not affected at all by the health of a drive. It works purely by a set of unusual heuristics based on data the controller's status register can return. What it's watching for sure write faults and attempting to detect a recalibration. These drives take a long time to recalibrate regardless of whether or not they're working.

You're just wrong.

​@@timradde4328I agree, but there's no need to be rude

It's just about the same as an early production ST-225. Sadly, these are pretty darn rare and I have to take what I can get with regards to spindles.

@@TheDiskMaster you got pretty nice one :)

​@@engineer359thanks

@@TheDiskMaster you welcome:)

​@@engineer359👍

Yup. This is an ST-225 with one platter and two heads removed.

@@MyComputerStudios_ Yes, this is a single platter early model ST-225.

@@leecremeans5446 Yes, but they only exist for 84 and 85, I believe.

@@ewhartiii Unfortunately, there is no way to do this without destroying the spindle motor. It is completely sealed.

@@joshua-pj3rd haha I wonder if they're related to the company.

@@TheDiskMaster I was kind of wondering the same thing it would be a total trip if it was because the population is under 3k

​@@joshua-pj3rdI kinda doubt it, I think LaPine was based in California, but I could be wrong

@@TheDiskMaster that would make more sense because LaPine Oregon is kind of just a little redneck Town / tourist trap is not much going on there

​@@joshua-pj3rdMaybe someone in the company had family there. Who knows.

@@BoraHorzaGobuchul no problem. Primarily here for the documentary efforts but to each their own!

@@TheDiskMaster brings back the childhood. Never had this particular drive but my 330meg scsci drive made similar sounds ) Down the memory lane

​@@BoraHorzaGobuchulInteresting, there were no drives >120MB that used stepping motors, so I'm not sure what that could have been.

@@TheDiskMaster "all you hdds sounds the same to me", or maybe there was. In my memory, it sounded similarly. But that was a long time ago. Don't remember the name, only that it had a black front panel, and a big green LED indicator, that it was scsci and 330mb volume it thereabouts

​@@BoraHorzaGobuchul Most drives with a front panel are black, and green LEDs were almost always an option. The design of that faceplate and the position of the light are what I would need to know to make an educated guess as to the model of drive. An easy example of not all drives sounding the same would be putting this Lapine next to any modern drive. They are audibly very different, that much is clear to anyone.

@@wahidtrynaheghugh260 Says who? We always have room in the server and in the community for another enthusiast, even if you don't become a collector!

Indeed, I have noticed that both this and the Kyocera KC-20A drives which share it's chassis have begun to have serious capacitor issues. I had heard they were sued, yes. The case doesn't appear to have been formally closed until the 2000s when it was largely irrelevant anyways. Love that legal system.

Had no idea that Kyocera manufactured these drives.

@@thegeforce6625 Lapine designed the KC-20B as well, as the LT-2000. 80scompaqpc is lucky enough to have one!

@@MyComputerStudios_ Because HDAT is a disk diagnostic program and is purposely looking for errors, and because HDMotion attempts to random read basically every sector on the drive. These drives are extremely rare and there is no reliable way for me to fix these errors, so if I want to demonstrate the drives, this is what I have to deal with.

@@TheDiskMaster I'm sure you are aware of this but sometimes it is worth a check of the cables/contacts of these drives. I have a MiniScribe 3650 that showed a bad head 3 when testing (attempted LLF), however before opening it I tried cleaning the contacts on the PCB and the drive actually booted without error (original LLF must have been on an AT class controller).

​@@bobjoe2827Sadly, if you watch the video closely, you will see that this is not the case. Errors on head 3 are consistent and only span cylinder 0 to 284. A poor connection would cause head 3 to never be legible, but this suggests an actual media error. This drive is very tired and came out of a warehouse.

IDESDI really does make some strange sounds, doesn't it?

@@TheDiskMasteryeah definitely.

@@thegeforce6625 It's trying to use some really simple heuristics based on data the controller hands back about the state of the drive in order to calculate it's geometry. It's a very interesting algorithm!