Відео

I’m really not sure, I only use CBTO as a reference.

@jturner5227 Right after the video, I got a new rifle and I never did shoot the load in a match in the rifle I developed the load for in the video. I did however develop a load for the 177 SMK’s using Shooters World Precision powder and Remington 7 1/2 primers for my new rifle. I only shot 1 FTR match with the load and they did pretty good. The match was a 300 yard match and I shot 592-34x. If you aren’t familiar with Fclass scoring, the score means that out of 60 shots, 52 went into a 2.85” circle at 300 yds and 34 of those went into a 1.42” circle at 300 yds. After the match, I shot the rest of the bullets I had left practicing and haven’t bought any more since then. Not that I don’t like them, I do, but I have been shooting mostly 185 and 200 grain bullets.

I was able to load target rounds more accurate than factory soon after I began to load for accuracy. I make sure the ammo is safely loaded in accordance with a reloading manual before I test a round for accuracy.

@@targetrifle Thank you for your help!

Yes, after the small base die, I have fired the round and the next sizing is with my normal full length sizing die.

@@targetrifle Thank you so much!

Hope it works out for you.

I’ve been shooting local matches every month. Mostly 600 yards. I’ve been doing well. Have you been shooting matches?

​@@targetrifleAlso...and I'm not complaining, since I shoot with a factory rifle, and I've managed to make full marks, but what I have is enough...😁

I started with a hunting rifle with a Harris bipod. I then bought an inexpensive Savage rifle to determine if FTR was going to be something I wanted to do. I really enjoyed shooting matches, so I then bought a Savage FTR rifle with a Sinclair FClass bipod. I then upgraded to a chassis custom build with a SEB Joypod, and finally to a composite stock custom rifle with a Phoenix bipod. Thanks for commenting!

@@targetrifle Thank you for the response! I was considering the Savage FTR in 308 as a good place to start so good to hear that is recommended.

Glad you like the video! Thanks for the comment.

Thanks for commenting. Good idea, I’ll keep it in mind.

It depends on the batch of brass. I have some with 25 firings and I am still using them, but I have had to retire brass with only 5 firings.

@@targetrifle I asked because just this week I reloaded my 223 Lepua brass 56 times and have not had to throw one out. Primers still fit well also.

That’s a lot if firings!

I agree. Do you use a mandrel after you neck size?

@@targetrifle the Lee Collet die which I use has a mandrel.

Thanks, but I meant to ask, do you run a mandrel in your case after using a bushing die?

@@targetrifle no I relied on the elliptical expander installed in the die but decided I was moving the brass in then out and it was work hardening the brass which will reduce it's overall useful life. The Lee Collet die moves the brass just one direction - inwards. My brass necks todate have been 100% 2.5k of neck tension. I never have a loose bullet anymore.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks!

Very welcome. Thanks for commenting!

Thanks for the comment. I try to have my rifle shoot consistent 5 shot groups at 100 yards around 0.4”. Around 0.5” is okay though. It can be frustrating at times to keep groups around 0.5”, but I try not to get too upset when groups get larger.

@@targetrifle What do you think about the Joypod bipod? Is it too much to operate and are the adjustments smooth? I’m torn between a Joypod and Phoenix. What you think? Thx

The Joypod is really light, so that helps with the overall weight which is always a consideration in F-T/R. The joystick allows a lot of movement and it is a great idea, but I would rather move the rifle back into position rather than adjusting the barrel back into position with the joystick. It is a really nice, functional bipod. It was just too adjustable for me. There is a little slop to take up with the joystick, but it isn’t much. The operation is pretty smooth after the slop is taken up. My preference is the Phoenix which is a little more substantive. Since I do not adjust it every shot, I feel like I am moving the rifle back into the same position after each shot. It makes me feel like I am more consistent getting back into position on target. Both are great, I just think the Phoenix is best for me.

@@targetrifle I really appreciate your response. I wish you nothing but small groups. Thx.

Glad you like the videos!

Thanks for the comment. Most reloaders I talk with refer to “jam” as the point where the bullet gets stuck in the lands. I have always referred to not touching the lands as “off” the lands.

I don’t know if pressure goes up or not, but every time I adjust seating depth when I jam or jump, I am cautious and monitor pressure signs looking for early signs of high pressure.

Yes, I anneal every firing. I started doing this years ago to keep the necks from cracking. Since then I have read and been told that annealing helps accuracy by helping keep neck tension consistent, but I have never tested this.

@gtroxlar8597 Most serious competitors I’ve seen are shooting 200 grain bullets at 1,000 yds. For 600 yds, some shooters, including me use 185 grain bullets. I also shoot 175 grain for practice.

That makes sense. Have you found the small rifle federal primers to be softer than any others?

It is an F-Class Panda.

thank you, and what stock did you use?@@targetrifle

It is a McMillan XIT stock.

@@targetrifle thank you

You should have an over view video on your rifle. Looks amazing.

Yes, the load is just above being transonic at 1,000 yds. If the velocity was 100 fps or more, like the 2,750 you mention, they would be okay. I have had the same experience with different lots of Varget and varying speeds. Thanks for the comment!

It is a good die to have.

Thank you!

You should be able to. I can watch the video and hear okay.

Thanks for the tips! Yes too much vertical. I think the vertical is due to my shooting habits more than the loading. I’m working at improving my technique.

I agree, different CBTO measurement different bullets and grain weights. Good observation. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks for the comment. I do shoot fouling shots before shooting for record, but I like to start the match with a clean bore. That way, I know I have a consistent amount of fouling in my barrel every match. I have shot with a dirty barrel in the past, but no longer do it. I haven’t tested a dirty bore vs a clean bore for prolonged accuracy, but I do know that for me, a clean bore shoots well.

@targetrifle It seems the smaller over bore calibers don't like a dirty bore, at least the 204 Ruger I uses to own would start fouling the bore and groups would start opening up around the 25 to 30 round mark. I'd have to swab it every time I wanted to shoot more that one box of ammo.

That’s a lot of cleaning, but worth the time if you like or have a purpose to shoot that caliber. Some bench rest shooters clean that frequently.

Thanks for the comment. I have seen a lot of great shooters jump a pretty good distance. Some upwards of 0.050”. Most of my best loads though are a small amount of jump or even in the lands. I agree with you in that the only way to find out is to keep trying until something shoots well, maybe jump or maybe closer in.

No, I think this rifle has something like .085 free bore.

Appreciate it!

I don’t measure base to tip, I only sort by base to ogive. Base to ogive gives me consistent seating depth. I agree, base to ogive is all that matters. The only time I measure to the tip of the bullet is case base to tip (OAL) and only use that measurement when comparing to what other shooters are doing and even then, it is only a reference since there is such an inconsistency with the tip length. CBTO is not a good comparison to other shooters since there is a significant variation between comparators.

Hi Rafap, thanks for the comment! I have worked up a pretty good load with Varget and Berger 185 Juggernauts. In testing I am averaging 0.7 - 0.8 MOA 20 shot groups at 300 yards. I’m shooting a lot of clean targets at 300 in practice. I was going to shoot a 600 yard and 1,000 yard match this month, but both got cancelled. I’m am going to shoot a 600 yard match in two weeks.

​@@targetrifleStop spending time and money at 300, try to do the tests at 600, it is easier to see the results and draw conclusions...

I agree, but I don’t have a 600 yard range nearby.

Thanks for the tips! At our range, we do not have pits, so there isn’t a way to keep the to get the sensor up below grade. That is a great idea though. Our range is only 300 yds, so not much chance of hitting the hub.

That sounds like a sound and repeatable method. I’m going to try that method next time I take the barrel off and compare to Alex Wheeler’s method.

@@targetrifle I got the method from Speedy Gonzalez. In this video. ua-cam.com/video/AFiIuzvgHYc/v-deo.htmlsi=hVbUDw93UUc0jmxU

Thanks for the advice. I am going to sort by base to ogive next. I mainly sort by weight first to find the extreme outliers and use those for sighters.

The reamer used for the chamber had a .170 inch free bore. Hopefully that isn’t too long. Do you seat your 200.20x touching or into the lands?

​@@targetriflehello...I don't have a custom rifle, I have a sabatti TLD step 1/11 and the 200.20X doesn't work for me, I already told you about trying the RDF 175...with great results, having achieved 6* place in the nationals of my country at 1,000 and, yes, it took me a long time to find the formula... of the people I know who throw out 200.20 do it near the land...

​@@targetrifleBy the way, try several primers, there are very significant differences and also gunpowder, especially in your country where you have a lot of variety, just the two of us: vithavuri and roload swiss

@rafap.2736 Thanks for your comments, they are very helpful. I will try some different primers. I have already tested two primers and have a couple more to test. I also plan on testing 3 powders as well. Also, we can get Vihtavouri powder here. I may try N140 and N150. Do you have any of those where you are? If you do, do you like either for 308?

​@@targetrifleit is more stable v-150

I haven’t used a lot of them, maybe 1,500 or so, but when I have, I like them. They have a little bit more variation weight wise than BR4’s, but as far as I can tell, they shoot just as good. They have a thick cup like the BR4’s so they can take more pressure before the firing pin makes a crater or pierces them.

@@targetrifle thanks 👍🏽

Glad you enjoyed it!

Thanks, and glad to hear you think my interpretation is good. I often question my decisions.

No I haven’t. I only have anecdotal observations. I really don’t think I shoot good enough to do meaningful testing.

Thanks! The 300yd target is smaller relative to the 600 and 1000 yard targets relative to MOA. i.e. 10 ring is 2.85 “ rather than 3”. Even so, there is a greater margin of error at 300. If I miss a wind call, it may be a 9, or it could be a liner 10. Wind has to be pretty inconsistent, switchy and stiff to shoot an 8.

Your calculations are correct on my ballistic app. Transonic between 800 and 900 yards. I only intend to use this load at 300 and 600 yard matches. The free bore on this rifle is too short to load 185 jugs and 200.20x, so I only shoot mid-range matches with it. I only use jugs and 200.20x for long range.

I just watched it. I agree, very interesting.

Congratulations on shooting a good national competition! Maybe I’ll try some of those Nosler bullets someday.

I agree, based on their appearance, it looks like the BC would be higher than the 175’s. I hope they shoot well.

Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching.

I get the 3’ x 4’ horse stall mat from tractor supply and cut it into a rectangle the size I need. The mat is rubber and is 1/2” thick. I cut the mat with a utility knife and straight edge. Then I use yoga mat cut to fit the horse mat and use contact cement to glue it to the mat. I’ll make a video sometime showing the mat.

@@targetrifle Thank you for the info. A video would really help newcomers to the sport like myself.

@@airborne350gI’m going to upload a video soon showing the bipod mat I use.

It is an Area 419 cup.

Hi, I live in France, Vihtavuori 1kg is at 99€ but some dealers are more expensive. Do you find large rifle primers in Spain ? Or they are still out of stock ?

low stocks at vitha pistons no stocks.and price rebound expected

Wow, I thought prices here were high. I couldn’t afford to shoot F-T/R if I lived in Spain.

@@rafap.2736 Ok, thank you, that's like in France, hope components will back soon. Thanks again

​@@therangersbulldogs6350Hello... what competitions do you have in France for F class... I only know the one for the mile. thank you

Large rifle primers are available in USA at this time ? Thanks for your time

They are hard to find. Out of stock at most retailers.

@@targetrifle Thank you very much for the reply, and for your time. In France, since 2022 LR primers are out of stock, here really nothing in LR primers. Thanks again.