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It's a solid option and very similar to option 2!

Best place to start that conversation is on our website at www.milmarbuildings.com

@@MilmarBuildings sweet! Yes your website is awesome, been checking it out. I’ll reach out via the website. Thank you.

Being aware of thermal expansion and contraction is important as well as regularly inspecting your roof screws, just like you would regularly inspect a shingle roof to watch out for any possible issues. Thanks for the tips!

For most people, the cheapest method of protection for posts is the Post Protector sleeve or even just wood if they are in highly drained soil, but with gutters in our area (snow areas) we always recommend adding snow bars to keep sliding ice from tearing off the gutters as well. Thanks for the input!

Fair point, but video was shot on the fly and I forgot the glasses. Next time! 👍

That would be a similar principle to the Post Protectors (option #4) but we have found the Post Protectors to be very quick and easy to install while maintaining a full separation of wood from ground contact. They also make a grade board protector to keep the grade board from contacting the dirt. Thanks for the info!

The jumbo nailers are beasts! Very cool to see where building tools and tech is going!

We have definitely heard that from people and it is the reason we always recommend separating wood from ground contact. Also, good idea to check your treating ratings for wood you are planning to make contact with the ground and make sure your drainage is properly set. Thanks for the input!

Correct, well drained dirt around the post is usually a better plan than concrete around post that can trap moisture and bacteria rot. You definitely want concrete underneath the posts though, to keep them from settling and throwing the building out of square. Thanks for the input!

Steel is a great option, which is why it is combined into the Perma-Column steel and concrete bases shown on here. For a lot of builders, wood framing is not only more cost efficient and accessible, but also, easier to work with in finishing out buildings, hence the need for high quality post frame foundation options that keep wood from contacting the ground. Thanks for your input!

Hey! We have definitely heard of this method, we prefer complete separation and the speed of install of Post Protectors or Perma-Column. Thanks for sharing that option!

The home portion is 30x30 and the shop wing is 40x80x16. Hope that helps!

Hey there! The posts themselves aren't the largest cost of the buildings we construct. Usually the metal siding and roof cost more. That being said, sometimes it does make more financial sense to go with metal frame buildings, mostly for larger than 80 foot spans or commercial buildings where higher ceiling are needed. Thanks for the input!

Ouch! There are definitely different permit costs based on location, even in the midwest from county to county.

Thank you for stopping by, glad it was helpful!

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#1, #2 and #4 have no wood contact to ground, and we agree, it is best to separate that post from ground contact, even if it is treated well!

Hey, it's not for everyone, but for people looking for post frame foundation options, it's a good start! Thanks for the input!

Absolutely, as long as your piers are rated for the weight/shear...etc., you could bracket off the Sturdi-Wall bracket showed in this video and build from that.

That is a great question! Probably depends on depth of placement, footer, soil type...etc., but flooding would definitely be better to have a no-wood-to-ground contact for minor flooding and high water tables. Earthquakes are a whole different ballgame. Thankfully, in our building area in the Midwest, we have very few (and very small) earthquakes compared to the West Coast and other areas of the world.

That is an interesting method. I am guessing that the large depth of the base gavel and it being tamped tight could replicate concrete base, but I am not sure why you wouldn't just pour wet concrete for the footer to make sure? Not seeing how tamping gravel that deep in the ground would be easier than pouring concrete, but then again, we build in the Midwest, not the Canadian Prairies. I would always stick with local building code for permit sake. Gravel around posts is not a bad plan, it is clean, compactible and allows good drainage while locking in the post.

@@MilmarBuildings I’m north of the 55th° That means 8 feet deep. I have lots of sections of 14 inch diameter 1/8” wall steel pipe and an auger, The soil is mainly clay 1-2% river rock (500’ above a lake 1/4 mile away.) With straight gravel I’m debating whether that would be an ideal drainage or a disaster looking for a place to happen. Here screw piles are also permitted per code. but that’s high-tech for resistance torque. Which I can’t replicate with my backhoe auger set up. (With my 100 hp pump and motor it would be too easy to snap the screw piles clean off) And to get the right people would be 5 to $8,000 bill added to that build. I believe # 1 is my best choice. .317 yd^3 concrete per is cheap. How many you figure per side?.. @15 ft centres x10 piles.. it be 3yards+ or ~$550. (+?) For 20’x60’

@@henrinaths1 Wow, that is intense depth! And yes, the full concrete poured piers are nice as long as you can drill that deep in your soil type. Number of piers for us would be based on number of support posts, and in our area, that is 8' on center. If you are in a higher snow load, it may be 8' or even 6' or 4', so check your local codes, but I wouldn't go any wider than 8' on center for sure.

@@MilmarBuildings Many thanks👍

Yes, some builders use a drilled hole for that, or a partial tube at the top if the top of the hole is collapsing. You can also place those into poured footer walls that are in forms.

They are a great product and we use them often!

The uplift brackets are required by most counties/townships where we work, so there isn't much option for us to not include those. I think the bigger issue is not that the building would actually "lift" out of the hole, but that with frost heave and earth movement, that the posts could shift and cause framing or metal issues, even with a small movement. The uplift brackets are to help give the compacted fill a way to resist that movement somewhat. Thanks for your input, always looking for better ways to build!

Cross bracing is key, especially before the metal sheathing goes on to help brace the structure.

I believe that was 12' tall door and the loft above was not living space, but it was planned to finish out later by the owner. Height on inside would be roughly 7-8'

Correct, the lateral strength for split-units like Perma-Columns is all in how well it is anchored to the post. Throwing some screws in it won't work, it has to be structural bolted. Having a building rack is a scary thing regardless of the foundation and the best way to avoid that is get the metal on quickly and make sure the temp/permanent bracing is installed correctly. Definitely something to watch out for!

Our builder mentioned this very thing and what they do to create more lateral strength in the posts is stack four treated 2x6's to make the poles instead of a single post then the run carriage bolts through each of them along the length. It has held up extremely well in some of the gale force winds we get up here in the Rockies.

The chain / cable cross bracing needs to be in place and maintained until all of the lateral sheathing or metal is up. Sounds like they didn't have it all in place.

Roofing tar is excellent...

I am on my second ploe barn type shop. And also apply 2 coats of roofing cement 3' up the post and a generous amount on the ends. Have also done this on a few other applications where I buried a treated 4X6 in the ground. I was curious if others do this. Nice to know. One other thing I do is drill 2 holes around the perimeter of the building through the post and insert rebar in these holes. and they are inbedded in the concrete when I pour the slab for the shop. The rebar goes all the way around the building in every post. Robert

My pole barn was built this way and I was very skeptical when I first saw the builder doing it!

@@francisleonetti1120 Which way? He showed 5 options.

@@chrisallen2005 dig hole, dump bag, level/plumb post, throw dirt in.

That is interesting! Always fun to see what innovative ways people come up with to make their barn work best for their application!

3" may be plenty for what we are doing, but you should always make sure your length matches the application that you are intending it to use it for.

@@MilmarBuildings Essentially it would be a post frame garage/barn. I imagine a nailing schedule probably comes into play too. I just need to find one that specifies usage of 3" ring shank nails.

It's a beautiful property they have created there!👍

Thank you for watching!

We have not used those, though we have looked at that option before. It seems that most of those are more engineered for southern states with lower snow loads, but it is an interesting option to consider if engineered properly!

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