Xing yi fighters will "fight as if they are on fire" as far as fighting a grappler, control his hands is key. but how often does your life depend on beating a grappler who is robbing or attacking you. even a navy seal would tell you not to fight unless you have no other choice. these are just some of my thoughts, its just one persons mind set. Traditional Martial arts encompass so many other aspects of life other than mere combat. if you only want to learn combat, join the marines. imho
When people talk about head movement, they probably don't mean moving your head in isolation. At least, boxers don't. Boxers slip punches by moving their whole body.
I've never seen Aikido in the ring face off BJJ, Judo, or striking arts. But I ain't a fool to think that Ueshiba never whipped some Jiu Jitsu, Karate, Judo ass in his days. And certainly ain't foolish enough to think that those old masters of those arts were ineffective fighters. So I am not about to simply dismiss Aikido, even though I don't follow it. The same with any TMA that is absent in the ring. It just is irrelevant.
This is akin to the "evidence" which you see that runs contrary to TMA's efficacy. The profound truths contained within many TMA have been around for much longer than the newly found methods which modern fighters have cobbled together using the superfically obvious tools of the ancient arts from whence they originated. U will never see a super advanced maneuver from TMA being taught in an MMA class. It just takes too much thinking & practice. Beyond the time threshold limit for MMA.
Around the turn of the last two centuries, evidence was abundance which seemed to describe reality with certainty. Newtonian physics, Bohr Atomic Model, General & Special Relativity were the mantles of human understanding of the Universe. Then came Quantum physics which ran counter to all these "self evident" truths & appeared super counter intuitive but turns out the fantastical properties of the quantum realm were the true profound things which ran the whole heap of things from the start.
So Leung Sheung is one of these masters who knows two arts. But I can tell you that it doesn't not matter, since he aligned himself with Wing Chun for life eventually. As you say, everyone has different paths. I myself have experience in no less than 7 arts, chinese, vietnamese, japanese, & korean and thai. Where am I now?
I never said it was wrong. I said it is a result of other factors related to the person's disposition. Leung Sheung was a master of the Dragon Style before he met Yip Man. Then he publically renounced his headship of the Hong Kong Dragon Style Organization and announced his discipleship under Yip Man...a man who was around 5.4 and weighed 125 lbs. Leung Sheung was 6' and weighed close to 200. Yip man threw handled him like a doll so thoroughly, it changed his life. So he knows WC & Dragon.
True, but that doesn't mean that the multiple system approach is WRONG. Evidence to the contrary is all around. It's quite uncommon in fact to find a master of Taiji who doesn't also practice Bagua, Xing i, or Liu He Ba Fa, or for that matter also an external art. If you study deeply perhaps its not NECESSARY to cross train. That doesn't mean its WRONG to cross train if you wish.
Look, in the context of the Octagon, MMA fighter go at it for real. They really try to hurt each other. But they are still bound by those regulations. They MUST adhere to those rules while they try to take each others' heads off. I find it disingenuous for you or anyone to write over-simplistic things which infer claims that MMA should be associate with "real" fighting and which discounts the merits of TMA in "real" fighting. So sure of urselves, u'll have to forgive my incredulity.
That is exactly my martial journey which led me to settle on Wing Chun. I took the long way...from obvious to the profoundly subtle. And I will be damned if anyone will convince me to backtrack.
When I say ignorant, it should not be understood as an insult, but rather an actual description. You are free to call anything I write ignorant so long as it is ignorant. When I say frail old men, it is a figure of speech to amplify my view of your opinions, not a claim that you are calling tai chi people frail old men. When I was a refugee in Malaysia from Vietnam, I saw a group of teens teasing an old taiji man. He ignored them, until they attacked him...the flew around like mosquitoes.
Ok, don't make this personal. You've called me/my comments ignorant multiple times, and now you're insinuating that I'm a hating troller who makes fun of frail (looking) old men.
"everything they do in MMA was done in TMA before that. " Absolutely. That is why Hsing I and other TMA only appear superficially to lack the tools to deal with ground fighters. Only to the novice...no matter how many TV interviews or videos he's made, if he can't use pure Hsing I or whatever he studies to deal with all situations, he is a novice.
"Perhaps if you take it to the same extreme the professionals do." By ur previous statements, these hardcore badass professionals should be perpetually better than the old TMA suckers. So why the change in tune now? I can guarantee you that the very best Tai Chi master in China will play with Rickson Gracie like a rag doll. I will bet my house on it. I'm actually laughing my ass off from this suggestion.
In fact I see no problem with learning to fight first, quick, direct and it works, as your skills improve you gain more of an appreciation for the subtleties of something like taiji, bagua, or wing chun which may or may not offer instant gratification. After all, everything they do in MMA was done in TMA before that. It's the training style and environment (and commercialism these days) that made it what it is.
No, I often say that some things may not work in THAT ENVIRONMENT. MMA is what it is because that's what has been shown to work in that environment. The same could be said for the street, a triangle choke is a good way to get slammed on your head when you take away weight classes and rules against spiking. Not to mention weapons, multiple attackers and the like. Don't misunderstand, I am not a mma is better than tma guy, or vice versa. I like both.
A very skinny old man named Tsui Chon Tin. See how ridiculous he looks in the videos. Then make fun of him. Because you have never met him in person and do not understand the true method of the woman style.
Perhaps if you take it to the same extreme the professionals do. But most are regular people, and most Tai Chi players are just average as well. If you want to go that route, get your best Tai Chi guy vs Rickson Gracie. Your average Taiji exponent vs your average BJJ exponent=a beaten up Taiji person. We've effectively hijacked this entire thread and we're going in circles. lol
Not everyone takes it to the same extreme as the pro's do though. Cutting weight, roids, overtraining are definitely bad things in the long run, as is training insanely hard for a short time, then taking months off when they should pace themselves and maintain. But there's little to no excuse not to train whatever system you practice realistically these days. Push hands will only take you so far if you've never had real attacks thrown at you.
"Who's looking at techniques as the reason?" ur constant repetition of the importance of technique arsenals is enough to reveal a preoccupation with techniques. I am preocuppied with the underlying principles which make any technique work. I could care less about any particular technique per say. Techniques arise out of the principles, not of their own accord. Each principle can birth myriad techniques which express the principle itself. So many arts are born from the same group of principles.
Today, instant gratification is the norm. What more supremely faster & easy to deal with ground fighting than grappling? You see where we are going here? U think that original hsing-i masters never had to deal with ground adepts? think again. Please try to see farther than the obvious, get out of the instant gratification mind set. Just maybe, some treasures are infinitely more valuable but require magnitudes more effort to attain.
The way a vast majority of people teach TMA these days....they're all standing arts with little or no clinching or ground work so it then becomes necessary to go outside the art to shore up those skills. Even if they do eventually get to those areas of study, it's years down the road. There is also some truth to the statement: some traditionalists can't fathom that maybe, just maybe ancient china didn't know everything and some things have actually improved.
Do you know who how many Wing Chun masters I consider exist on video on UA-cam? 1... and that man isn't even in my lineage. He does things a little different than I do. the rest are lunatics, from Leung Ting to all those "wing chun" muscle heads who propound superficial understandings such as 50/50 vs. 70//30 etc...they end up showing just how much the do not know while they feel puffed up in their studios on UA-cam. Ridiculous.
I am certainly biased. But my bias now is the complete 180 of my previous bias before I met capable Wing Chun masters. I can talk till I am blue in the face, the only way to see is for your to search for these people yourself and test them yourself. So you see, my bias is not based on emotional ignorant allegiance to any art or Sifu, it is based on 20 years of training and meeting teachers & practitioners of many arts both traditional & modern methodologies.
So it boils down to what kind of person wants to study MMA and what kind of person studies TMA. That's it. Not that MMA or TMA is better or worse. What is it the student wants from the two options. As fast as MMA allows practical usage, that is how dangerous TMA can be and even surpass if enough time and diligence is given to the study of TMA. That is all. U may never see a TMA fighter take UFC titles...does this mean that it doesn't work? If one is stupid, it certainly appears so.
There surely is. But in both cases, having good technique or good 'techniques' both depend totally on the underlying principles. There is absolutely no exception to the rule. So if this is the truth of the matter, then one should wisely pursue the understanding of the underlying cause of success--->The Moon itself and not the finger pointing to the moon.
Agreed. But it's just a different approach. You can study wing chun in most schools and take 10 years mastering only standup striking/trapping. Or within that same 10 years also study judo/jujutsu and be much more well rounded than if you only studied either of them separately for the same amount of time. Eventually you might be able to catch up...eventually. But the cross trainer will continue to improve also, he doesn't sit still.
Initially suspicious this linked form . but five fists look solid.. especially that Pi Chuan👍
翻浪勁を表現するために、グリングリンと拳を回しているのです。 崩拳で突き刺した後、上・前・下とベクトルを急速に変化させることで、 強制的に勁力を体内に浸透させる。 本来の「浸透勁」を、形意は有していたんでしょう。 細部の解釈に違いはありますが、尚氏も同じことをしています。 宋氏の他の人も。 今はもう消されてしまったけれど、「農夫」というタイトルで、 可愛いわんこがまとわりつくのを許しながら五行拳を演じていた方の技が、 私の復元した物とかなり似ていました。 この動画の先生の技も、本質的には同じだと思っています。 宋氏は、優れた技を保存している方が多いと感じます。
Xing yi fighters will "fight as if they are on fire" as far as fighting a grappler, control his hands is key. but how often does your life depend on beating a grappler who is robbing or attacking you. even a navy seal would tell you not to fight unless you have no other choice. these are just some of my thoughts, its just one persons mind set. Traditional Martial arts encompass so many other aspects of life other than mere combat. if you only want to learn combat, join the marines. imho
舞
燕子要抄水
大致還不錯;稍有瑕疵
240p, it's been a while my friend
Wonderfully Awesome!!!
Wonderful!
he is purposely shaking his fist, I see no point in doing this.
皮也没有
Brilliant! This is the Xingyi. This is it.
Awesome!
此枪约编于1970年左右，当时是名为(北派)乙组枪术，其中的最主要部份枪法，演练者都有将枪术的基本要领，撥丶拦丶拿丶扎四法全清楚的表现出来。
此套路演練者為沈茂惠,師從韓慶堂,據韓慶堂後人表示,本槍法乃是少林正宗第二十八代宗師楊秀山之子楊法武先生，於民國八年在山東濟南武術傳習所中受訓時，傳授同窗好友韓慶堂，韓慶堂視為珍寶，並用功不懈，日後成為韓慶堂拿手絕技之一。由於楊家槍有十三個基本槍訣，因此亦稱「楊家十三槍」。 此視頻約攝影於1960年代,應該是該套路影響了乙組槍術才正確
起鑽落翻
When people talk about head movement, they probably don't mean moving your head in isolation. At least, boxers don't. Boxers slip punches by moving their whole body.
I've never seen Aikido in the ring face off BJJ, Judo, or striking arts. But I ain't a fool to think that Ueshiba never whipped some Jiu Jitsu, Karate, Judo ass in his days. And certainly ain't foolish enough to think that those old masters of those arts were ineffective fighters. So I am not about to simply dismiss Aikido, even though I don't follow it. The same with any TMA that is absent in the ring. It just is irrelevant.
This is akin to the "evidence" which you see that runs contrary to TMA's efficacy. The profound truths contained within many TMA have been around for much longer than the newly found methods which modern fighters have cobbled together using the superfically obvious tools of the ancient arts from whence they originated. U will never see a super advanced maneuver from TMA being taught in an MMA class. It just takes too much thinking & practice. Beyond the time threshold limit for MMA.
I agree to an extent but some things like 4:43 are just kind of comical and I can't imagine a use for them
Around the turn of the last two centuries, evidence was abundance which seemed to describe reality with certainty. Newtonian physics, Bohr Atomic Model, General & Special Relativity were the mantles of human understanding of the Universe. Then came Quantum physics which ran counter to all these "self evident" truths & appeared super counter intuitive but turns out the fantastical properties of the quantum realm were the true profound things which ran the whole heap of things from the start.
Been fun. Sleep time. I been doing my 6 mile runs at 9 am instead of the normal 6am...can't do that tonight again.
So Leung Sheung is one of these masters who knows two arts. But I can tell you that it doesn't not matter, since he aligned himself with Wing Chun for life eventually. As you say, everyone has different paths. I myself have experience in no less than 7 arts, chinese, vietnamese, japanese, & korean and thai. Where am I now?
I never said it was wrong. I said it is a result of other factors related to the person's disposition. Leung Sheung was a master of the Dragon Style before he met Yip Man. Then he publically renounced his headship of the Hong Kong Dragon Style Organization and announced his discipleship under Yip Man...a man who was around 5.4 and weighed 125 lbs. Leung Sheung was 6' and weighed close to 200. Yip man threw handled him like a doll so thoroughly, it changed his life. So he knows WC & Dragon.
True, but that doesn't mean that the multiple system approach is WRONG. Evidence to the contrary is all around. It's quite uncommon in fact to find a master of Taiji who doesn't also practice Bagua, Xing i, or Liu He Ba Fa, or for that matter also an external art. If you study deeply perhaps its not NECESSARY to cross train. That doesn't mean its WRONG to cross train if you wish.
I do not think you are trying to convince me or anyone. That is self evident.
Not trying to. But each person walks his/her own path.
Look, in the context of the Octagon, MMA fighter go at it for real. They really try to hurt each other. But they are still bound by those regulations. They MUST adhere to those rules while they try to take each others' heads off. I find it disingenuous for you or anyone to write over-simplistic things which infer claims that MMA should be associate with "real" fighting and which discounts the merits of TMA in "real" fighting. So sure of urselves, u'll have to forgive my incredulity.
And I've seen a 70 year old boxer knock the crap out of a home invader.
That is exactly my martial journey which led me to settle on Wing Chun. I took the long way...from obvious to the profoundly subtle. And I will be damned if anyone will convince me to backtrack.
When I say ignorant, it should not be understood as an insult, but rather an actual description. You are free to call anything I write ignorant so long as it is ignorant. When I say frail old men, it is a figure of speech to amplify my view of your opinions, not a claim that you are calling tai chi people frail old men. When I was a refugee in Malaysia from Vietnam, I saw a group of teens teasing an old taiji man. He ignored them, until they attacked him...the flew around like mosquitoes.
Ok, don't make this personal. You've called me/my comments ignorant multiple times, and now you're insinuating that I'm a hating troller who makes fun of frail (looking) old men.
"everything they do in MMA was done in TMA before that. " Absolutely. That is why Hsing I and other TMA only appear superficially to lack the tools to deal with ground fighters. Only to the novice...no matter how many TV interviews or videos he's made, if he can't use pure Hsing I or whatever he studies to deal with all situations, he is a novice.
"Perhaps if you take it to the same extreme the professionals do." By ur previous statements, these hardcore badass professionals should be perpetually better than the old TMA suckers. So why the change in tune now? I can guarantee you that the very best Tai Chi master in China will play with Rickson Gracie like a rag doll. I will bet my house on it. I'm actually laughing my ass off from this suggestion.
In fact I see no problem with learning to fight first, quick, direct and it works, as your skills improve you gain more of an appreciation for the subtleties of something like taiji, bagua, or wing chun which may or may not offer instant gratification. After all, everything they do in MMA was done in TMA before that. It's the training style and environment (and commercialism these days) that made it what it is.
No, I often say that some things may not work in THAT ENVIRONMENT. MMA is what it is because that's what has been shown to work in that environment. The same could be said for the street, a triangle choke is a good way to get slammed on your head when you take away weight classes and rules against spiking. Not to mention weapons, multiple attackers and the like. Don't misunderstand, I am not a mma is better than tma guy, or vice versa. I like both.
A very skinny old man named Tsui Chon Tin. See how ridiculous he looks in the videos. Then make fun of him. Because you have never met him in person and do not understand the true method of the woman style.
But it's still just YOUR experience, other people have their own.
And who might that one master be?
Perhaps if you take it to the same extreme the professionals do. But most are regular people, and most Tai Chi players are just average as well. If you want to go that route, get your best Tai Chi guy vs Rickson Gracie. Your average Taiji exponent vs your average BJJ exponent=a beaten up Taiji person. We've effectively hijacked this entire thread and we're going in circles. lol
Time to train.
Not everyone takes it to the same extreme as the pro's do though. Cutting weight, roids, overtraining are definitely bad things in the long run, as is training insanely hard for a short time, then taking months off when they should pace themselves and maintain. But there's little to no excuse not to train whatever system you practice realistically these days. Push hands will only take you so far if you've never had real attacks thrown at you.
"Who's looking at techniques as the reason?" ur constant repetition of the importance of technique arsenals is enough to reveal a preoccupation with techniques. I am preocuppied with the underlying principles which make any technique work. I could care less about any particular technique per say. Techniques arise out of the principles, not of their own accord. Each principle can birth myriad techniques which express the principle itself. So many arts are born from the same group of principles.
I love your comment, and I feel the love for the principles as well... oddly I want to share with you the video called "Vinh Xuan game"
Today, instant gratification is the norm. What more supremely faster & easy to deal with ground fighting than grappling? You see where we are going here? U think that original hsing-i masters never had to deal with ground adepts? think again. Please try to see farther than the obvious, get out of the instant gratification mind set. Just maybe, some treasures are infinitely more valuable but require magnitudes more effort to attain.
Who's looking at techniques as the reason? Where do you get that? I guess the eye sees what it chooses to see.
That's the problem. There are so very few who have really tested it in battle. So many just pretend.
The way a vast majority of people teach TMA these days....they're all standing arts with little or no clinching or ground work so it then becomes necessary to go outside the art to shore up those skills. Even if they do eventually get to those areas of study, it's years down the road. There is also some truth to the statement: some traditionalists can't fathom that maybe, just maybe ancient china didn't know everything and some things have actually improved.
Do you know who how many Wing Chun masters I consider exist on video on UA-cam? 1... and that man isn't even in my lineage. He does things a little different than I do. the rest are lunatics, from Leung Ting to all those "wing chun" muscle heads who propound superficial understandings such as 50/50 vs. 70//30 etc...they end up showing just how much the do not know while they feel puffed up in their studios on UA-cam. Ridiculous.
I am certainly biased. But my bias now is the complete 180 of my previous bias before I met capable Wing Chun masters. I can talk till I am blue in the face, the only way to see is for your to search for these people yourself and test them yourself. So you see, my bias is not based on emotional ignorant allegiance to any art or Sifu, it is based on 20 years of training and meeting teachers & practitioners of many arts both traditional & modern methodologies.
So it boils down to what kind of person wants to study MMA and what kind of person studies TMA. That's it. Not that MMA or TMA is better or worse. What is it the student wants from the two options. As fast as MMA allows practical usage, that is how dangerous TMA can be and even surpass if enough time and diligence is given to the study of TMA. That is all. U may never see a TMA fighter take UFC titles...does this mean that it doesn't work? If one is stupid, it certainly appears so.
There surely is. But in both cases, having good technique or good 'techniques' both depend totally on the underlying principles. There is absolutely no exception to the rule. So if this is the truth of the matter, then one should wisely pursue the understanding of the underlying cause of success--->The Moon itself and not the finger pointing to the moon.
Agreed. But it's just a different approach. You can study wing chun in most schools and take 10 years mastering only standup striking/trapping. Or within that same 10 years also study judo/jujutsu and be much more well rounded than if you only studied either of them separately for the same amount of time. Eventually you might be able to catch up...eventually. But the cross trainer will continue to improve also, he doesn't sit still.