Відео

I'd say Jack-O' should still be the "1-2 exceptions" category. One of the few notable exceptions is for one of her BnB, where she connects 6P into 6H(1) at midscreen without minions. This works on most characters except some lightweights like Jam. With that being said, yeah her combo game isn't too complex and they generally just end with 4D or 2H.

I don't play guilty gear, I'm just a casual viewer(Ignore my avatar) and I was actually shocked to learn how simple the combos in this game are for a lot of characters, I literally looked up dustloop pages while watching this video and sure enough, tons of bnbs are just gatling into sweep or gatling into special. My impression from trying to get into french bread games (and blazblue) was that anime fighters typically have high combo execution floors and your introductory bnb will be a 15 hit affair including launchers, microdashes and manual delays. Though ultimately that perception was fueled by my own biases and choices of characters over the years. I just looked c-tohno's basic combo in Actress Again and its literally just 5C 2C 6B into air gatlings into air throw and it does appreciable damage.

(Disclaimer: I play Sol in every GG but mostly play +R over Xrd so I can still be corrected) Your read on Sol is pretty solid for the most part. The only correction I'd suggest is that for Xrd specifically, Sol's max damage corner combos that give good oki don't actually want you to do the Dustloop. It's actually about trying to squeeze in some rotation of Bandit Bringer, Fafnir, and Gunflame or just j.D > divekick loops. The Dustloop is usually used as just a bridge to get into that situation/higher damaging routes off a solid hit while still providing decent damage and corner carry (you can stick in just about everything like usual lol). You still should learn it, but for a different purpose in this game. It's a slight change of pace from Dustloop actually being THE hardest hitting combos for him most of the time. TLDR: You're right, but you technically can be more right I guess lol.

Having a Raven player tell me my character isn’t hard pushes all my buttons, but sure I’ll bite and step up to the plate for the dark Johnny kabal. There has absolutely been a phsyop among Johnny players to say that he’s harder than he actually is. I’ve gone back and played rev 1.0 Johnny and that character is a fucking joke. I’m not surprised his +r player base was not impressed by that iteration of the character. The plausibility of not getting one hit zwei is nonexistent against most of the cast. In all iterations of the character, his dash is a weakness in character specific matchups at best. It makes for a frustrating learning curve, but in reality isn’t a weakness that means much of anything. Although I’m glad people are coming around on not giving Johnny the pass for being perceived as hard, I’ve seen an over correction in the other direction about how he’s actually easy and that Johnny players are CHOOSING to do the hard shit to look cool. My argument is two fold. One, if you want any meaningful success with this character you have to do at least some of the hard non-stable shit. Two, the reason he’s not actually that hard is because fucking any of the hard stuff up doesn’t matter (which I thought you were going to bring up since you mentioned it with chipp but maybe it slipped your mind). Johnny is mega stupid busted because he can end every combo that does a million damage in a hard KD with at least one level. But getting that from any hit anywhere on screen takes a ton of combo variation that changes across a majority of the cast. And even with the same character, different combos are going to be the best choice in similar looking situations based on starting hit and screen position. I think a lot of people conflate his combo structure being busted to it being easy. Just because I CAN end every combo with the most damage in the best position with levels, does not mean that it’s easy to execute that. Also the sheer amount of memoization of every combo for every situation across the entire cast is no easy feat (at least for me. Maybe you’re a god at memorizing and the answer is just memorize 4head in which case fair enough). You may have a combo that you know stabilizes a conversion for this specific character in this specific situation, but you got a wonky initial hit and now that combo work anymore. Can you, in that moment, remember another confirm that’s still going to give you the same outcome of a level and hard KD?Cause it definitely exists, but it’s up to you to remember, make that decision, and then execute. Ok but that’s all the hard stuff right. That’s just what the best players or combo monsters are doing you don’t have to do any of that to be competent with the character. Sometimes you don’t always get a level you just take your hard KD and be happy. Even that isn’t true because he has mandatory character specific routes on a fair amount of the cast. They’re not that different, nor that hard, but they are mandatory. Sometimes the harder to execute combo is the one that’s the same throughout the cast and if you want to do the easier more consistent version you have to learn the character specific route. Even if you argue that he’s not actually hard, your placement of him on the tier list is fundamentally flawed because he doesn’t have a “one combo fits all” for most common situations across the entire cast. I’m not choosing to change my combo in this situation, I’m changing my combo in this situation because that’s the only way to enable the broken aspects of my character and keep my game plan going. Character specific combos/more executionally heavy combos are not a choice. Now with practice you can do them relatively consistently but then the memorization factor comes back in. You may have practiced this situation a thousand times but in the chaos of the match do you remember it during that moment? Side note, but I don’t see how the act of practicing something makes it fundamentally easy? A challenging combo becomes muscle memory because you do it a lot because that’s what practice is. “Just practice lol” can be used for any difficult technique mentioned in this video. The act of practicing something over time making it easier does not make it easy to do in the first place. It’s only easy because you practiced it for a hundred hours first. That’s literally the meaning of practice. The reason why Johnny is actually easy, in my opinion, is because fucking up with him doesn’t matter. He has a million health so you have a million chances. He does a million damage so you can come back from any situation. His neutral is godlike so missing your hard KD isn’t punishing. Johnny is theoretically a difficult character to play, but the risk reward is so heavily skewed in his favor that none of that matters because you can beat your head against the problem over and over and at some point you’ll out damage the issue. There is no risk for messing up and the reward is monumentally higher than any other character (except maybe elphelt). Yes, this character/screen specific combo that is the only way to get my win condition in this specific situation is hard to execute, but who cares if I fuck it up because I just get to try it again without much consequence. I’ll admit I’m being a little hyperbolic in how much the combos differ by character and by situation (and also how hard they are to execute compared to the rest of the cast), but there’s no escaping that there are differences and you have to learn them. And these differences become more and more mandatory as you get better because good players will punish you harder for messing up, or take more advantage of you in neutral (character dependent). For me, the hard aspect of Johnny’s combos is having the knowledge of what works in every situation. Even if executionally they’re not that bad, the mental stack of doing the correct thing in the correct situation often leads to drops. I could also explain how the hard parts of level three dust loops are the mist cancel double jumps and how that’s mandatory for specific characters in specific situations, but at that point I’d just be going in circles. If you refuse to learn anything beyond the few mandatory character specifics you’re massively handicapping your potential with this character. You don’t HAVE to learn stance cancel treasure hunt character specifics, but you should. If you don’t you’re not going to get very far. The reason Omito was so good is because he had a combo for every situation, on every character, remembered all of them, and was able to execute them all in high intensity matches. And in the cases when he would fuck up or had to scramble, Johnny having a million chances with fucked risk reward always kept him in contention. If I had to place him on the list it would probably be in the same tier as Dizzy, but as you get better and face better players, he leans more towards the Answer tier. That is my opinion. Good video and thanks for starting this discussion.

also I agree, i dont like melee execution either. you should try rivals of aether 2, its got none of those hard meleeisms. combos are cooler too than xrd 'cause the opponent gets to interact and YOU have to account for that ON EVERY HIT thanks to di, sdi on every hit instead of only with bursts

why call smash not a fighting game. 3:09:17 its a fighting game if u dont play it like a party game

i just hate how bad zato is... it makes me sad.

>Bedman >Not Combo in your sleep tier Smh my head

PEAK

As someone who played alot of +R Slayer and quite a bit of Xrd Slayer, I think you're hyper-fixating a bit on his air combos but I get it, its weirdly unique to Slayer how involved his air-routes are. Most characters simply do some variation on a ladder combo or they do a button into a special that lets you get back on the ground, with Slayer instead of it just being a combo piece the whole combo is in the air and he has to eyeball it for the most part, its not something you'd expect for a character with movement that rigid.

cant comment on many other characters but I'm a Millia player and her combos are actually pretty straightforward and not that hard, I agree with everything you said. The difficulty comes with converting stray hits but that's hard with pretty much every character when you're starting out. She's definitely hard not because of execution but because of the oki and knockdown systems in the game along with weight, and she interacts with these systems more than most other characters. outside of everything I dislike about strive, removing variable/ per character face up and down knockdown timings and the weight system was a great change. regarding that last tangent, I think if you played pretty much any other fighting game with that guy it would have gone exactly the same way. I'm not an undernight stan or anything but maybe you overestimate the willingness of people to learn fighting games and being okay with losing. I used to think that maybe 1v1 gamers like card games and chess players would enjoy fighting games but I honestly have not found any crossover when it comes to that.

I play +R, but this is helpful either way. Seeing May at the bottom is interesting for a combo execution tier list.

1:40:18 Went and checked, yes Nagi is still posting jacko iks, 400+ combos now how tf do people do this

thank you for the content, mr dragonfly, i will consume over the next few days

Remember to take breaks while watching this (and smash that like button (and leave a comment (and subscribe))).

Happy to see any XRD Content regardless of it's a meme or something I know lol

That is absolutely bonkers. Uncrouch uninterrupted being a weave feels like it could be a system mechanic

CHANNEL UPDATE I had claimed in October that I wanted to get a video about Raven's glide/mixup game finished and uploaded by November, or perhaps the end of November. It is now December. There are reasons for this: - October is a month that contains Canadian Thanksgiving, Halloween, and some other things related to my private life. It's a busy month for me, and since Thanksgiving falls on the second Monday of October, this year it was as far into the month as it can be on Oct 14th. Normally there's a lull between the two big holidays. - In November, one of my family's cats swallowed over a foot of a shoestring, though thankfully without the aglet. We fortunately noticed this early and took him to the vet, and he got surgery to remove the string. He's spent the last two and a half weeks recovering, which has required frequent monitoring and feeding from me. He is nearly fully recovered and things can go back to normal within the next day or two. - There's an indie game I had played recently and wanted to make a video recommending, so I had recorded a couple hours of footage and written about 2,000 words. However, after looking into the devs I discovered they were people whom I didn't want to signal boost. PLANS: - Back to focusing on Guilty Gear to remind myself what making structured, well-scripted and plainly edited videos feels like. Hopefully something by the end of December. - No more unfocused rambling like in my recent Smash video. Even when I have a clear idea of what I want to say, I often veer off the mark and don't make myself clear. I don't want to dump things onto this channel and become another "hey guys" podcast channel.

is no one gonna talk about the thumbmail? Where did you even find the pic 😭

Personally i don't mind a little bit of blind sighting in a game. I think a lot of the time it can lead to some very memorable moments and in the totality of a game some ambiguity is good for longevity of combat.

Best Part of this run: That wasn't even the full run. He was juggling Xrd and Granblue that were happening right next to each other, as he was in both Top8s.

Punching until i get something... Something coming from an actual scientist XD

I think this video is a bit overly semantic, but I definitely agree with smash commentators being bad at explaining things. I've heard the word "reversal" used to describe such a multitude of different things that I don't really know what the commentators are trying to communicate when they use it. Kinda feels like its just a hollow term that gets shoehorned into any given situation.

Looked like a hard read to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If you don't think it's hype, that's fair, and I agree, but Zain predicted where Aklo would be and covered that position with an attack. In other words, he read him. I think I understand why you wanted to make this video, but you also preface it by essentially saying that "these commentators have no idea what they're talking about" which just isn't the case. And if they did in fact make one messy call, who really cares? That happens all the time on live commentary. That's just the nature of the job.

Grabbing the tech in place was a read, just like charging the f smash was a read. Your narrow definition of a "read" requires it to have a certain level of commitment. Most people's definition (probably the commentator included) is that Zain had a read on what Aklo would likely do next (tech in place and the ledgedash). Honestly, I like the analysis, but maybe work on your delivery a bit better. Just kinda sounds arrogant.

I am the best link Main for real but i never go on TOS ;)

dude your criticism is better elsewhere anything that deviates from popular belief in melee is torched. they will not accept someone else is correct. You'll have to beat Zain to get credibility with your comments in this community

I can't even get through this. It's like you don't really know what you want to say or where in the video anything is, it's like the slowest paced post meandering thing, and the point is pedantic. How is this a 17 minute video lmao.

I feel like this video was made slightly to spite smashers but I do agree with the idea of read/reaction being used inadequately. Even if we concede the idea of it being a "read" for the commentator's sake, the risk to reward ratio is far too skewed in favor of Marth where Aklo would likely just be given the ability to return to stage and swat Marth at the same time. It feels very silly to call something like this a hard read in this case. There have been commentators that yell "HARD READ" to Puff positioning herself with a jump to cover roll and reacting to said roll with rest, but everyone knows the rest would not have happened if the opponent weren't to roll. I do agree the terminology use is definitely not great. I also believe that a hard read should be reserved for when you commit to something that isn't based on prior information and just your own conditioning of the opponent to manipulate them into falling into the option that you choose to commit to. It feels a bit silly to say something's a hard read when the option that you hit has been done for stocks/games consistently throughout the set.

I think this video is too negative to be correct. I appreciate the thoughtfulness you show in the comments. The way I would personally describe “reads” is in 3 dimensions, how much you cover, how much you get if you hit, and how much you lose if you miss. I think a “hard read” is when you get relatively close to the extreme point of “covers 1 thing, very hard hitting, and very bad if wrong.” The closer it is to that, the harder the read. In this situation he covered most options for high reward and low risk, not a particularly hard read, but possibly still some kind of read

interesting video. really messy and not very well argued tho. addressing your comment specifically, because Zain probably would have won anyways it made that specific interaction less cool? I dont agree at all. It WAS a read. Even if it wasnt instrumental to his win, it was a read and it was a callout even if you didn't find it "super hype". Youre arguing that commentators hype up or misunderstand the game yet your 20 minute video starts with you misunderstanding the interaction and your defense is "well he would have won anyways probably"? Idk man.

I'd be interested in an analysis of the Hbox vs Wizzy commentary at Optic Arena. It's my favorite set to watch, mainly because the commentary is so different and more analytical on the neutral interactions.

I think the most impressive part of that fsmash is actually zain timing it. Link's cliff fall is active 4 frames earlier then the other characters for whatever reason so it's pretty unintuitive to hit

I agree with your analysis but I think the lines are blurred in a lot of situations. You say that it’s not a read if you dont commit, but what a commitment is, is difficult to define in all cases. So for example in fox falco it’s common for fox to shield a laser then full hop to the top/side platform. Falco can read this option by jumping up and shining where they’re gonna be on the platform. But is falco going for this shine a commitment? It has to be in some sense, but it’s also very difficult for fox to do anything about the shine if they do it clean enough. In that’s sense the falco isn’t really committing at all, they’re making a good risk/reward play. But then can we not call this a read? And if not then what is it?

I respect that you made this video, but having a go at commentators for being slightly (even debatably, not wrong at all) wrong when narrating a situation and bringing up how they're paid to this feels pretty unnecessary. Commentators aren't there to be walking talking oracles that are never wrong, they're there to fill the void of just watching the game with only the game audio to listen to. And yea I actually do think they were right to call that a read, that fsmash is NOT safe if you're charging it like that. It's not going to hit anything unless aklo ledgedashes and is vulnerable when it swings.

This was an intensely interesting video especially as someone who used to play lots of Smash but mostly plays traditional fighters nowadays It’s also somewhat cathartic because I really am not a big fan of the way Smash usually gets commentated lol

gonna have the commentators going "My B" when the whole crew sees this

This is a problem I always found with Smash and it potentially branches out to other games as well. Just because someone has a lot of experience with a game does not mean they are good at conveying advice nor does it mean they fully understand what they are talking about. I think this even goes for top players. From my experience, I rarely hear good advice from top players. It's usually from people that aren't in top 100 that I find helpful advice from. This is why coaches exist because top players can't always figure everything out on their own. Coaches are able to deduce an issue or strategy and effectively communicate that information while the top player can best bring those concepts they learn to practice.

smash major commentators lately have been borderline unlistenable on every single stream not just for reasons like this. the only way to escalate in chance to get a job like this is just to be at a ton of tournaments and have connections to everyone else who goes to every tournament. the commentators know they are soulless and will only mention anything related to themselves to chime in on "what they've seen lately" or if they've got experience playing one of the onstream players in bracket themselves. there is the understanding to need to upplay every play as it happens to build hype because we're doing esports 2! but the commentators just don't have the depth of knowledge or the awareness to know what they're talking about play by play or to know what information is actually interesting or relevant to the plays going on, especially at the top level of bracket where the gap between commentators and onstream players is especially pronounced. not to mention the generally lacking effort by our regular commentators to accommodate basic pre-specified needs like leaving an avenue for communication between production or the onstream players that isn't The Chat or Texting Each other's Phone Numbers! or just stuff like how to address the onstream players when referring to them in third person, what names they are and aren't okay with and how to pronounce them and what pronouns they use! it is blatantly repulsive they get this much money to be so needlessly frustrating at every single major

Wait I'm like genuinely confused though 35-40 frames is 100% long enough for aklo to wait at ledge till zain releases fsmash, then get back on stage and hit him, zain is giving up turn if he whiffs, and giving up ability to shield or move (which contributes to giving up turn) by sitting in fsmash for 35 frames after the hitbox is out. Since fsmash doesn't actually cover aklo sitting on ledge, zain is giving up options to focus on covering aklo getting up from ledge no? (don't get me wrong people say read for what is only coverage improperly all the time in smash, i just don't think this is one of those situations)

i liked the analysis but i think you were biased against smash. The problem may be conceptual, i admit. That doesnt makes the smash scene bad.

This is a hard read. The fsmash doesn't cover link staying on ledge and the fsmash is punishable on reaction after he whiffs the move. You can't cancel a smash attack when you start charging it so he is commited to this option and I know you're thinking "oh well if zain was closer to ledge and covered staying on the ledge then it would cover everything", but the reason he doesn't do that is because you could get a forward air with ledge invulnerablity on reaction to him charging. I would agree if he didn't charge the smash attack, but I am absolutly certain that the commentators would not call it a hard read if he didn't charge it.

you should make more melee stuff i love it ! inside view from a FGC player is always nice

I mean, is this a smash only issue? Or is this indicative of esports mentality in general? I’m sure there are countless examples of this within the FGC as a whole, or even within competitive gaming as a whole.

Disagree, RPS is a symmetrical guessing game so a distinction between Hard and Soft reads is fundamentally baked in. If I think you're going to throw Rock, but choose to hedge my bet's and throw Rock as well it's still a read, just a softer one. Fighting games have way more game states than win, lose, and tie (occasionally even check/checkmate situations) so it's not as cut and dry, but this still holds true. And to play devils advocate for commentators, there are some situations where observers or even the other player can't know the degree of specificity you're working at. For a personal example when I first started playing UNIST I liked to wake up crouch shield recklessly. Like 70% percent of the time I got knocked down I would back tech and wake up shield, even in the corner where this can be a death sentence if it gets called out. But Chaos has no DP and his only other reversals are costly and unreliable so I felt like I had to do it. Naturally I got GRD broken alot, but I was stubborn and didn't want to stop, so eventually I started waking up with 66B to add a second reckless option to my repertoire. I remember one set I played with a local Gordeau I was scoring hit's with 66B out of the right corner and the left, and after I won he said something along the lines of "Whenever I tried a mix-up you up option selected it with 3B and it beat everything I tried to do". But he was wrong, 66B wasn't an option select, the few throws I did tech actually used a 1A+D OS. He just wasn't aware that I had labbed the situation. 66B is a mediocre anti-air that's hard to input on reaction, but when done as a reversal it's actually air-borne during the period throw invincibility ends. So when does as a reversal it'll cleanly beat throws and delayed assault attempts (the most common ways to blowup 1A+D). But since it doesn't have immediate invul it loses to meaties. It's particularly relevant since Gordeau has both a command grab and a j.B that's potentially safe on shield, and Chaos doesn't have any good reversals to discourage meaties. This kind of unorthodox RPS crops up all over the place in fighting games, so on some level you can't truly know whether or not something is a hard read from the outside looking in. I'm not defending ignorant commentary it comes up all the time, but in cases with complex or rare characters (like Link) I think the commentators should be granted a fair bit of grace. Even players that have spent thousands of hours on a series have blindspots, it isn't fair to expect any different from commentators, especially since they're put on the spot a lot more.

I remember watching a yeet smash highlight video on RoA2 and a commentator said, "Ranno's Forward air spike is really hard to hit." in response to an edge guard flip where Ranno pressed Fair. This was an insanely dumb thing to say as of if you played that game as Ranno for more than 10 minutes you'd know that not only just isn't true (it's very easy) but hitting that spike Fair is a core part of his character. RoA2 has seen a lot of popularity that, as a series I enjoy (1500 hours on console and PC,) I am happy that it got. It's just that migration of these players who also seemingly don't know anything are all of a sudden on the mic and it's very frustrating. Separate note, I don't think that all Plat Fighters are smash clones (4:00.) This was just a minor sentence in a 20-minute video, but I feel the need to defend the genre even if I know a lot of the titles are smash clones. I feel like it's a square and rectangle scenario. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares (as in not all plat fighters are smash clones.) I've revealed a bit of my bias already, but Rivals of Aether 1 is definitely a plat fighter, but not a smash clone. This genre just doesn't get a lot of innovation. There was a time where Virtual Fighter was the standard for those 3D fighting games.

What video player are you using for this? I saw a streamer with the same volume bar etc. Looks nice, sorry if it's an obvious one.

My favorite kind of hard reads in Xrd is when players with a big health and round lead start throwing out big buttons at a cornered meterless opponent while having 50+ meter and full burst.

i miss old school commentary where they let the player's good decision making stand for itself rather than trying to fluff it up into some hype moment when it doesnt need to be bland commentary like this also just fades into background static whereas i'll forever remember yipes screaming at the top of his lungs about meteors in ass in the kbr vs fchamp set