Відео

I have a WaterPic. It’s capacity is about 4 oz, and it needs to be upright to work. I get that it’s a water pump, but I can’t for the life of me see how it would be useful.

I think Insinkerator needs to do a little bit of re-engineering to make it possible to do this easier!

A solid build up of scale on the element could absolutely cause the element to overheat & trip. If that's the case, then don't be in a hurry with the descale. It would take quite a while with regular strength vinegar to remove the amount of scale that would cause tripping. You might even need 2 treatments. On the bright side, descaling is just costly in time since vinegar is cheap.

You could, but I don't recommend it for a number of reasons. 1) The Insinkerator is supposed to be connected to the hot water line. The water/vinegar mix will get hotter and hotter. This accelerates the scale dissolution process (it goes faster when hot), but that accelerates the CO2 generation so you'll get a LOT of sputtering and splattering. And you'll vaporize the vinegar like crazy, since the boiling point of acetic acid is lower than water, so you'll get a ton of vinegar gas. 2) Adding water to a vinegar filled tank slowly dilutes the vinegar. You need the vinegar to be gone, not relentlessly diluted. You'll still have vinegar in the water after hours of water flowing through. That means 3) you'll waste a lot of water. And 4, a full tank is a lot heavier to install than an empty one. Now, it CAN be a good strategy at the start. You're using a bit of warmed vinegar to clean the faucet. I would still recommend disconnecting it and draining it after that, though.

I really think that's a function of how often you descale it. Vinegar IS a liquid descaler. All descalers are low concentration weak acids (acetic, formic, lactic, gluconic, etc). All descalers work better when they're warm, as the chemical reaction is accelerated by heat. But it's all about concentration. Adding a bit of liquid descaler won't add enough acid to dissolve all the salts if it hasn't been cleaned in a while, or if your water is very hard like mine. If you descaled it weekly, sure, a small amount of liquid descaler would work. But the process, while not difficult, is annoying and time consuming enough that no one wants to do it very often. As mentioned in the reply to other comments, you can't filter out dissolved solids. If you have a reverse osmosis system for your house, or a water softener, this process isn't necessary. I can't speak for current Insinkerator documentation, but mine says nothing about water treatment, and claims incorrectly that unit is "maintenance free".

Hmmmn… just to be clear, you descaled it, and when you turn on the tap it sputters a mix of water and gas. Am I correct?

Or would be more corresive to the internal mechanism

You can, and I have. But I don't recommend it at all. The issue isn't how corrosive it is (it's a mix of weak acids. Vinegar is acetic acid which is a weak acid). CLR works. The issue is rinsing it out. It's VERY hard to get the CLR "flavour" out of the water. I noted at the end of the video how you could rinse the tank out after using vinegar, but it's not that necessary as the vinegar smell will go away quickly. But you HAVE to rinse out the CLR and you MUST rinse at least three times. That turns a time consuming process into a VERY time consuming process. Rinsing the tank out involves feeding in water just like you fed in vinegar. It goes in faster, but it still takes forever. You could just hook the tank up, DON'T plug it in, then turn the tap on and run it for 20 min. Waste of water, and the tap needs to be manually held open. The one time I used CLR, I rinsed the tank twice and still had residual odour for days. Swore I would never use CLR again. But it's you're call.

Not particularly surprised. If you haven't descaled it regularly, and it's been in service for a while, it could take +5 back to back treatments to get rid of all the scale built up inside.

Sorry for your loss. You can't bring everything back to life, but you might be able to bring a scaled up one back from the dead unless the heating element died. Just soak the heck out of it in vinegar and it might still work.

Thanks for the info! I've fed back to Insinkerator design suggestions over the years. Not having the power cable come out of the bottom is a great change. Citric Acid is fine, as is any other weak acid. You could even use HCl is you dilute it enough. As you note, generally there's not much point in thaking the tjhing apart as the tank isn't serviceable. Glad to have been help!

A pump COULD work, and is not a bad idea. Just watch at the start; often they're so clogged with scale that it's actually hard to get vinegar in at the beginning. A pump may have too much discharge pressure. You're also trying to force a bunch of fluid in fast, and I suspect you'll run into back pressure problems due to the CO2 that's being evolved. But I'm cheap, and a syringe works just fine, and (in my case) was free. But if you have an aquarium pump and want to try it, I'd love to know how it worked!

@@derekryder7902 thanks for the video

@@Dookie_burner Happy to help; hope you found it useful!

Hmmmn... I'm on a well, too. I can't imagine scale deposits (which SHOULD be stopped by a softener) giving any taste. They're mineral salts. They MIGHT have a flavour in large quantities, but you would see particulates at that level (like I show in the video). Here's a suggestion; start by just draining the tank. Unplug it and let it cool overnight, then disconnect it and drain it. If solids come out, then it needs descaling. If the water comes out without any solids, your softener is working and any taste you're getting isn't from the Insinkerator.

Thank you @@derekryder7902

I finally had the courage to take the unit off and drain it. Black like charcoal sprinkles came out of the unit. The water line going to the unit is split between the refrigerator water and the unit. The refrigerator water is fine. Do I need to replace my unit or is there something else I can do?

@@chrissteele5493 Again, hmmmnnn... "Black charcoal like sprinkles" are most likely from a failed activated charcoal bed filter that's part of your whole house system. All refrigerators have filters that would remove them; the Insinkerator does not. Do you have a charcoal filter as part of your system? Most filters are NOT charcoal, just fabric mesh particulate filters. But some whole house systems use charcoal to absorb bad flavours. You noted a bad taste started; a failed charcoal filter would cause that when it failed. The only way you could get "black charcoal like sprinkles" from your Insinkerator is if the heating element started failing and flaking off. It's a VERY short path from the heating element flaking to it failing entirely, especially because of the volume of "sprinkles" you have. Flaked off heating element bits would not be uniform size. I think it would have failed by now. So my best GUESS (and only a guess) is that you have a charcoal element somewhere in your whole house system, and it failed. Check your fridge filter. I'll bet it has "sparkles" in it too, and it will clog soon. Or you could just replace any replaceable cartridges in your whole house system. All filters in those systems are one time use, replaceable parts (you don't back flush them). Hope that's helpful!

Thanks you. That makes sense. In addition to our whole house system we have another filter for our refreigerator and instant hot water line. Probably wasn't needed but they caught my husband when he was busy and he gave them the go ahead to install. We changed the filters on that system right before the problem started with the hot water. The filter company said that sometimes there are sprinkles for a short while after filters are changed. I also called insinkerator and was told I needed to replace the unit. It was 6 years old. Would have liked it to last longer but went ahead and replaced it. Next time we change the filters I will figure out a way to bypass the instant hot until the water is clear. Thanks again for your help. BTW you were correct there wasn't any white sprinkles. @@derekryder7902

My tank doesn't have a bottom hole, and neither did my previous tank that I took apart. Assuming there isn't actually a hole (and there shouldn't be), the most likely reason for leaks is the connections at the top of the tank.

Someone else mentioned this; that won't work on mine (and most that are properly installed). Mine is connected to the hot water line, which is consistent with the installation instructions. The "coldest" you can get it is the temperature of your hot water from the hot water tank, so ~120° F/50° C. That's MIGHTY hot still. In addition, the heating tank is wrapped in 1" thick styrofoam. It takes FOREVER to cool down. If I just unplug mine, 8 hrs later the water is still over 120° F/50° C. Hitting a hot element with cold vinegar is bad for the heating element, and you risk damaging it. Just take the time to let it cool.

these REALLY shouldn't be connected to the hot water line, especially if you have a tank water heater! You might be ok on a tankless with copper plumbing but modern pex piping leaches alot of chemicals with hot water. For tank heaters you may be exposed to high levels of magnesium or aluminum which are contained in the protective anodes of the tank.

@@jackmorgan709 Speaking as a chemical engineer, the solubility of aluminum in water is mighty close to zero, and much less than the amount of aluminum naturally present in the human body (www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/aluminium/aluminum-and-water.htm). Magnesium is what makes hard water hard, and you'll get massive amounts from eating something like oysters, so isn't an issue either (www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/magnesium/magnesium-and-water.htm). Being concerned about either is not based in science. There IS research showing that minuscule amounts (parts per billion) VOCs can leach from PEX piping, but the research shows that's temperature independent. Flush it with "cold" water as you suggest, or connecting it to the cold line, isn't any different than with hot. Your concern doesn't have anything to do with the Insinkerator, it has to do with you house's plumbing lines. The laws of thermodynamics support the manufacturer's recommendation to connect an Insinkerator to the hot water line as a source. And flushing a hot insinkerator with cold water, or adding cold water to an Ininkerator full of near boiling water, will eventually damage it due to thermal shock to the heating element.

The chemistry is true no matter who makes it. Glad it worked for you!

Thanks! It's actually not that bad; an hour every 6 months. And it works, so is worth the investment.

Having opened the tank, there's nothing inside that vinegar can damage.

@@derekryder7902 thanks Derek

You can buy replacement tanks and replacement taps, but you're right, not parts that I'm aware of. Somewhere in this thread there's someone who replaced innards of the tank somehow.

Speaking as a chemical engineer, you can't filter out dissolved solids like magnesium chloride. There IS a system that looks like a filter; it's a polyphosphate system. It chemically suspends dissolved mineral salts so they can't precipitate out. They only make whole house polyphosphate systems, so having one JUST for an Insinkerator is silly. Better to install one to take care of everything in your house from the hot water heater to the faucets and shower heads. But that's water treatment, not filtering. Because I'm on a well for my water, I have a 5 micron filter anyway. Filtering is not helpful for this issue.

You get bubbles when you add baking soda to vinegar because the acid in vinegar is reducing the salt (baking soda) to release carbon dioxide. That's the exact reaction you need in the Insinkerator - but you need the vinegar to react to the mineral salts deposited from your water, NOT the baking soda. Adding baking soda will make the vinegar NOT WORK to clean your Insinkerator. Use pure vinegar. DON'T mix it with baking soda!

Told ya it took a long time. Patience, patience. Reality: the input/output tubes get plugged. So trying to force the vinegar in faster may not actually work. On the bright side, it will perform better after cleaning!

Nope. My diffuser is fixed, and I show how to remove it in the video. Insinkerator says you don't need to clean it, so you "can't" remove it. Except you can.

@@derekryder7902 interesting. I have the one that looks like a regular spout. It will come off.

@@bigbaboo-3937 Insinkerator made several kinds of taps. They (thankfully) no longer make mine. The design was not the best and a bit awkward to use (for instance, the diffuser was not removable). The newer designs are better.

Hmmmn... You might try cleaning it with a Q-tip dipped in vinegar. It's possible (though not common) to get scaling at that connection. Scale can happen anywhere there is a change in pressure, so connections and orifices can scale. There's also a small rubber O-ring in that connection. It could be dry; a little vaseline will help with that (a silicone lubricant would be better, but everyone has vaseline).

Glad to hear it, and thanks for the feedback. A few notes: 1) Mine is connected to the hot water, not the cold. So I can't run cold water through it; 2) I don't have an air cartridge (that I am aware of...); 3) When I took a tank apart (photos in the video), it was a destructive process, and I did it on a tank that was being replaced. I had to cut through welds to get it part. If newer models feature tanks that can be taken apart without destroying them, that's fantastic. My experience is that even a basically gummed up tube will get descaled in 24 hrs if you fill the tank completely with vinegar. The scale in the tube does get contacted from both above and below. It really helps to shake the vinegar filled thing every 30 min, but the chemical reaction and adequate diffusion will still occur with enough time. And I wholly agree that they shouldn't be taken apart; 4) Very interesting water softener you have linked. In Canada where I am, the device is just $100, and a 3 pack of cartridges is $75, with each one lasting 6 months. That's $50/yr to operate the thing, which is not that expensive. Nice part is that unlike a water softener, there's no backwash (I'm on a septic system and can't backwash a salt-based softener). It's cheap to descale the Insinkerator with vinegar ($10/yr plus my time), but a system like you linked would solve issues with dishwashers, taps, hot water heaters, and everything else water related. Thanks for the link; I'm going to look into it!

@@derekryder7902 great to hear from you 1) smart - very efficient. Your viewers probably have it connected to cold however. 2) I guess they call it the plastic "Expansion tank" on top that contains the air vent 3) that makes sense. Mine had so much scale it was completed filled top to bottom including the expansion tank. Vinegar for 3 days with agitation didn't do much of anything. I had to chip at it with a metal pick... It was nuts. Can't believe it works now. 4) They say "replace every 6 months" for their revenue stream but I put one in on my other hot water tank 8 years ago and it's going strong on the original cartridge. Without it, it fails within 2 years. Amazing tech those descales are, and it means not having to worry about your heater... Highly recommended.

Probably. When too much scale builds up, the element has to work too hard, and can pop a circuit breaker. It's amazing how much scale can build up without noticing it!

As noted in a response to another comment, you can't filter out dissolved minerals. The minerals come out of solution when the water is heated (reduced solubility), or when there is a pressure change (through an orifice). Only reverse osmosis or a water softener can manage dissolved minerals. The former removes them; the later uses ion exchange to swap ones that come out of solution (calcium and magnesium salts) for ones that don't (sodium salts).

@Derek Ryder sorry I looked at other comments I must've missed it. My Insinkerator system has a water filter before the tank. It recommends replace after 6 months but the water is still tasting fine 11 months later.. I think 6 months is too soon tbh. They would say that to increase sales!

@@markyyyyyyyy321 I live in the country and use well water, so have a 5 micron filter for my whole water supply anyway.

@@derekryder7902 Nice

Yeah... at one point I misidentify them. At at least 2 others, I get it right. My bad.

Scale plates out on the innards & tubes (and orifices and anywhere there is a pressure or temperature change). Just draining the tank and finding few solids coming out doesn't necessarily mean it's not scaled inside. A common place to get scale is where the tubes (all three) enter or exit the tank. That really reduces flow. As I note in the video, compare the flowrate of the tank draining at the start and end. Is yours flowing out the tank fast like at the end of the video, or slow, like at the beginning of the video? The cleaning process is easy but time consuming (if you call an hour to fill and a few hours to soak time consuming). I'd try that and see what happens. If soaking it with vinegar for a while doesn't improve flowrate and pressure, my next target would be the tap itself. There are many tap styles, but the scale always happens in the same place: at the faucet's nozzle.

My first answer is always “clean it” unless you’ve been cleaning it already for some time. Water flow rate isn’t an indicator of scale buildup (though it can plug the tap itself and slow the flow). So many Insinkerator issues are solved by cleaning scale out.

As I mention in a few comments below, the more the scale has built up (and it likes to build up on the element), the less your tap will heat up. Do the vinegar, but I would expect a LOT of scale. Accordingly, I would recommend using cleaning vinegar instead of regular vinegar, AND let it soak overnight. That should make a big difference. But I would also suggest that if it just helps and doesn't make it back to "normal" do it a second time. If the first clean DOESN'T help, then see the comment below from a gentleman who replaced his element.

@@derekryder7902 . Thanks so much Derek I'll see if the vinegar makes a difference. The unit is at least 8 years old. Cheers Nick

As I mentioned in another comment, as you scale up, you lose heating efficiency. Step 1 would be to clean out the scale following the procedure in the video. I bet after cleaning you’ll get back to 200°. But I would also be that you’re really scaled up, so I would recommend using cleaning vinegar instead of regular vinegar, and soaking it overnight.

Great news!

Tripping the GFI suggests a short.

Hmmmn.... not sure how you can get a leak from the top of the tank. Having taken one apart, the tank is spot welded. More likely leaking from the tubes or connections. I would start by re-doing the vinegar soak (lots of scale = the need for lots of vinegar to dissolve it). I would then look at the tubes leading to/from the tap and water line. What sort of shape are they in? I would also look at the tap itself. Get a mirror and lookn up the spout without the diffuser in it. Make sure that's clean. Attack it with a Q-Tip soaked in vinegar.

Glad it’s been helpful. A pump would be awesome and make the process much faster. A pump defeats the problem that, at some point, the gas being generated (by the acids dissolving the mineral salts) wants to come out of the narrow tubes faster than gravity can feed vinegar in. But I don’t have a pump!

Great strategy! Repeated treatments are good. Just make sure you fill the whole thing.

Yes, maybe. RO systems where I live are ~$1,000 US for a whole house system, installed. They require a 5 micron prefilter (consumable; replacement cost of ~$50/2 years). Calcium and magnesium (the metal ions in hard water) are particularly tough on the RO membrane- they cause the soft, supple membrane to become hard and brittle, and eventually prone to cracking. Accordingly, a water softener in front of an RO system is smart, as it greatly reduces the amount of calcium & magnesium the filtration system has to contend with. With hard water, the membrane will need replacing within three years, but soft water can extend this part’s life up to three times longer. The minuscule sodium content contributed by the softener is easily removed by the RO system. But where I live, a water softener isn't practical because I have no stormwater system and backflush would have to go into my septic tank. So RO membrane replacement ($350) is required every 3 years. Personally, I'll take washing it with $3 of vinegar every 6 months. But your point is taken; I just don't think it's a cost effective solution.

Glad to be of assistance!

Yep. I think at one point I misidentify them. The thing to remember is that the left tube goes all the way to the bottom of the tank, and has a flow restrictor in it. The middle tube just goes into to the top of the tank.

Not much in the way of steps. I called and complained that there was more white stuff than water coming out of the tap. I sent them pics, too. They sent me a replacement.

Whew! LOTS of questions! I'll try to hit them all. 1) The syringe is slow and painful (75 ml at a time when I need to add 2,500 ml). Gravity's just easier. 2) Bigger syringe? Sure. As mentioned, I'd LOVE to find a bigger syringe. I haven't found one. Remember, the one end has to fit in the portals. Turkey basters are big but don't fit. 3) REALLY good question. The scale MUST soak in vinegar for several hours to dissolve. It takes a lot of time to dissolve it (and a stronger acid would be good and faster, but I worry about the chemical reaction with the tank parts, so no 10% HCl for me). You fill it to soak all the surfaces, including the tank's top. Just partially filling it and shaking it won't achieve that. First, because of insufficient contact time. Second, because the acid gets used up in the dissolution reaction. Don't use enough acetic acid and you won't get all the solids off. Hold it upside down to descale the top, and the vinegar will pour out. So you HAVE to fully fill it to clean the whole thing. 4) You can't unscrew my aerator. As noted, it's not designed to be serviced. All parts are friction fit. Other tap designs may be different, but I can't speak to them 5) I've never figured out a way to get vinegar into the tubes leading to the taps. But I'm not convinced they need descaling anyway. Scaling occurs at locations of pressure or temperature change, and that's not in the tubes. The faucet itself dosn't need descaling; the spout does. Hope that answers your questions!!